Eyes High

It was Conleth who made a sour expression, which makes sense given that Varys' life work ends in utter disaster and Varys dies trying to stop the queen he thought would be the best choice for Westeros. Guilty as charged. Usually they don't give away major plot points for the season in the preseason promotional materials, but Dany vs. Sansa has proved to have a lot more longevity than I thought it would. Assuming 8x04 marks the end of Brienne's plot for the season, that's hardly surprising. Nikolaj seemed happy enough, despite Jaime being sucked back into Cersei's orbit (the thing Nikolaj hated about S7). He must feel vindicated about Dany. Remember those mysterious comments Nikolaj made about how the ending is like a murder mystery reveal of the killer where it actually makes sense? The "killer" is Dany. Peter Dinklage has also praised the ending. His comments to Anderson Cooper (I think) about how the ending made him question himself make a lot more sense in light of 8x04 and what appears to be Dany's downfall, since Tyrion and the audience believed so wholeheartedly in Dany's fitness to be queen: And then he said this to EW.com, which again makes a lot more sense in light of what we now know (or can reasonably assume) about the ending: "A version of one of them is how it ends up [for Tyrion]": Tyrion on a ruling council after the Iron Throne is melted down? (Peter Dinklage in years past has talked about wanting to see the Iron Throne destroyed.) "If I use any adjectives it will give away": No idea what he means here. "They had a beautiful gentle touch with some and a hard touch with others": Sam/Gilly and in a twisted way Jaime/Cersei for the beautiful gentle touch, hard touch for...everyone else, it seems, especially Brienne, Missandei/Grey Worm, etc. "We're so used to the standard formula of bad guys dying and good guys living...": I'd be shocked if any of the "bad guys" lived, but I think he's talking here about Dany's death.

I don't know about "completely screwed over," but things are looking pretty bleak for everyone else who isn't Bronn or Sam, too, assuming the Throwaway leaks are correct: Arya: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up leaving Westeros and permanently separated from the siblings and Winterfell she fought so hard to get back to Jon: too much PTSD for a normal life, either takes the black or ends up north with the wildlings and permanently separated from his siblings Bran: lost his personality to the 3ER, will never be Bran again, mostly lives in the past and doesn't think others should envy him, ends up as a puppet for a ruling council Sansa: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up ruling the North alone and permanently separated from her siblings Tyrion will get a happyish ending if the Throwaway leaks are correct (on a ruling council to help set Westeros on the right path), but he seems pretty unhappy already going into 8x05, and whatever goes down in KL is going to involve a catastrophe he was powerless to prevent as well as Cersei, Jaime and Dany's deaths (three people he loves), so he's about to be thoroughly traumatized if he wasn't already.

I don't think for what it's worth that that's the last Stark goodbye. Sansa and Bran end up at the Dragonpit along with Arya, and whatever happens with Jon he's probably going to meet up with them. We did see what I think were some final goodbyes in 8x04--Sandor/Sansa, Jaime/Brienne, etc.--but that wasn't one of them. Leaving aside the issue of Sansa informing Sandor that her abuse and rape made her a stronger person, a lot of the blowback seems to be fans angry that they were suckered into rooting for a character who turned out to be Tyrant Barbie and romances that turned out to have been doomed from the start: Jaime/Brienne, Gendry/Arya, and Jon/Dany. But really, when you look at it objectively, is it really so crazy that Dany would become increasingly ruthless the more losses she suffered? That Arya would reject a conventional life with Gendry? That Jaime no matter how much he loved Brienne would always choose Cersei? That Jon wouldn't be able to get over the incest? Because to me, those outcomes seemed like the devastating but logical consequences of who these characters are. It was just blind optimism that made us think things would be different or special for these characters. And for all the universal contempt at the idea of an overly cheery Disney ending, it turns out that the prospect of being denied a Disney ending has fans going absolutely nuclear. So there seems to be a big difference between what fans think they want (dark GOT realness) and what they actually want (lots of romance and happiness). Fans are getting an emotional Red Wedding on steroids like they always claimed they wanted, and they can't handle it. It also bugs me that the spoilerphile fandom was fine with Tyrion getting thrown under the bus as long as Jon and Dany got their happily ever after, but now that it's Dany and not Tyrion getting the villain edit, nobody can handle it.

Tyrion promising Highgarden to Bronn reminded me that on Watchers on the Wall, they reported that Highgarden would appear in Season 8. At the time, I thought it was an epilogue scene with Sam, but I'm guessing it will be Bronn's after all in the end. TV Jon is just a well-meaning galoot getting outshone, outfought and outfoxed by stronger characters at this point. He certainly isn't giving off endgame ruler vibes; he seems like just another pawn, not a player in his own right. The poor guy just wants to take a long vacation, judging from his wistful comment to Tormund that he wished he was going with him. In fact, Sam and Varys hyping Jon as the superior ruler is a lot easier to swallow now that it seems like he won't be in the end.

The fuss over the awfulness of the King Bran/ruling council situation doesn't make much sense to me, since unless "Mostly I live in the past" Bran suddenly starts taking an interest in worldly affairs beyond the NK and Jon's parentage, even if there is a council, Tyrion will be the one ruling. ...And really, from what I've seen in S8 and what we now know of the leaks, Tyrion will the only one left suited to rule Westeros by process of elimination. Bran will remain a very knowledgeable zombie, Dany will be dead, Jon will be too damaged by whatever happens with Dany, Sansa who apparently couldn't care less about the plight of the people of KL will stay in the North, the remaining ruling lords/ladies/princes of Westeros will keep to themselves, and Davos hasn't done much in recent seasons except play hypeman to this or that person, so I guess now he'll be Tyrion's hypeman.

He feels tremendous guilt over Tommen and Myrcella's deaths. Cersei blames him for it in 7x07, and he appears to accept the blame. That's one interpretation. The writers do seem to be singularly focused on Tyrion's sex life in S8, though. "Things would be easier" if whoremongering were an option, but it isn't (for some undisclosed reason). In 8x04, he begs Jaime for gossip about what Brienne's like in bed and tells Jaime that he hasn't been with a woman in years. And also in 8x04, when Bran says he doesn't really want anything anymore, Tyrion ruefully sighs "I envy you." As I said upthread, I don't see the point of it unless it has endgame relevance.

Tyrion is the only person apart from Varys who seems to care at all what happens to the innocent people in KL if Dany lights up the place, and is willing to risk his own life in a last-ditch effort to avoid a slaughter, so yeah. Sansa who so often gets touted as queen material was completely unconcerned about the looming catastrophe in KL, merely gloating to Jaime that she was going to miss his sister's execution. The guy who actually gives a shit about the people is probably the one who should be ruling them.

Cersei paid off his best friend to kill him and his beloved brother and he didn't even blink. I doubt Missandei's death is going to shift the needle for him one way or the other. Missandei never liked Tyrion, and Tyrion must have figured she was dead the minute Cersei captured her. I don't know about those particular spoilers, but I do think with the writers for S8, they ask themselves what's the most noble thing to do in any given situation, and just have Tyrion do that, whatever it is. They seem to think it's noble for Tyrion to want to save his sister's life and her unborn child's life no matter what, and so that's what he is going to do.

I really don't see either Tyrion or Jaime killing Cersei. Tyrion is still desperately trying to save Cersei's life, and now Jaime has abandoned Brienne and is rushing to her side in her hour of need...even after she sent their BFF to kill them both! They really do love her, as fucked up as that is. Face skinning is not something you can really do easily and on the fly. If shit hits the fan in KL, as we've been all but promised it will, Arya's not going to be in any position to skin Jaime's face...although with the writing for S8, you never know. It's entirely possible that D&D left out the valonqar prophecy because they had a different death in mind for Cersei.

Someone said in 8x04 that the battle had gotten distressingly even, and that was before Euron took down Rhaegal and several Unsullied ships. Tyrion's expression of horror in the photos....Yeah, this is not ending well.

Friki's source was right about there being a Dornish character at the trial. It's Toby Osmond, who has already indicated he's playing a noble, and from the looks of him is playing a Dornish prince. It's one of the reasons Friki's information carried some weight, but the trial part is completely wrong. There's nothing in the first four episodes to indicate that there's a trial, and Friki's source's other information doesn't match up. 1. Friki's leaks claimed that Tyrion betrays the Starks. Tyrion's not in any position to betray the Starks (he's still on Team Dany), and if anything, he's going to cross over to Team Stark to stop Dany once he realizes she's not going to spare KL. Would he betray Dany and then doublecross the Starks in the space of a single episode? I doubt it. Also, Tyrion's standing with Jon and Davos and the Northern forces in the 8x05 promo. Lastly, blabbing to Varys wasn't a betrayal of the Starks, since we don't know whether Sansa swore him to secrecy, and we know from the Inside the Episode segment that Sansa told Tyrion because she knew he would tell Varys. 2. Friki's leaks claimed that Tyrion burns KL and claims at his trial by way of justification that "they deserved it." In 8x04, Tyrion is still doing everything in his power to avoid a calamity in KL and puts his own life at risk to beg Cersei to surrender peacefully, while Dany is getting ready to torch KL with Drogon. 3. Friki's leaks also claimed that Tyrion is bedraggled and disheveled at his trial, with longer hair and dirty, beige clothes. However, Tyrion has yet to wear on the show his fancy Lannister outfit from the EW photoshoot, and it looks like he doesn't wear it in 8x05, either, since the BTS video with Peter Dinklage with burn/dirt makeup must be from 8x05 or 8x06. That means that it's an epilogue outfit, meaning no lengthy epilogue imprisonment and no trial. 4. Friki's leaks claimed that Bran drops a line at Tyrion's trial proving Tyrion's treason (either "family first" or "I never bet against my family"), but neither line has appeared in the show to date as a Tyrion line. I thought the line could be introduced in S8, but nope.

I agree. That spiral staircase in KL is also important, since it's featured in the opening credits and we haven't seen it used yet. Yes. Destroying the Iron Throne means nothing if there's still a central monarch with absolute power.

Each of the individual Lannister siblings is far more interesting, nuanced and compelling than Jon, Dany and the Stark siblings combined. The Lannisters are also played by much better actors. It's no surprise that D&D are obsessed with them and that they've eaten the show. The show is nothing without them. And really, if D&D knew from very early on that Dany would go mad and that Jon would never end up on the throne, I'm not surprised that they subconsciously favoured the Lannisters' great familial tragedy. In 8x05, are we finally going to see the dragon shadow over KL that Bran has been seeing in his visions? Because I'm thinking 8x05 is the last time that could happen.

Great minds, my friend! That would normally be my guess, but like @bijoux, I'm not so sure. There is a shot in the 8x05 promo of Jon, Davos and Tyrion standing with the army. I see Unsullied and Dothraki among the forces massed below. So does the Northern army join up with them? I see what look like Northern soldiers standing behind Jon.

Oh shit, I just remembered that Emilia said in an interview that she had to give a big speech in a lot of languages in S8. Is it a pre-battle hype speech or something else? Emilia also made what seemed like an offhand comment that she would be doing "all this weird shit" in S8. I haven't seen anything all that weird through 8x04. Yeah, Vince Gilligan worked in TV for years before Breaking Bad, including as a showrunner towards the end of his run on The X-Files, while GOT is really D&D's first TV rodeo (and it shows). When GRRM made his comment about coming up with a villain as good as Walter White for ASOIAF, a lot of fans assumed he was talking about Tyrion. It now seems like he was talking about Dany.

I've said why. We'll have to see. Now that we've seen glimpses of 8x05, and we know that Peter Dinklage's BTS interviews with the dirt/burn makeup and the striped tunic on what looks like the KL set are from 8x05 or 8x06 (probably 8x05), it seems all but confirmed that Tyrion's Lannister outfit from the EW shoot is from the epilogue. Yes, it was a slow, carefully choreographed character arc, which is...not what D&D are doing here. It's almost as if GRRM only told them the ending while they were writing 8x04. They've had multiple seasons to start showing the cracks, and while I guess there's sort of an argument to be made that they kind of did that--her treatment of Hizdahr, her desire to burn her enemies' cities to the ground in 6x09 until Tyrion talked her out of it, her burning the Tarlys--they really could have done a better job of it. I guess the problem was that Dany needed to be heroic enough for Tyrion to believe in her wholeheartedly and for Jon to fall deeply in love with her while also being ruthless and dangerous enough to telegraph her eventual turn to the dark side, and there's really no way to thread that particular needle.

If Sam/Gilly and Sansa/Tyrion are the only endgame ships, it will be only GRRM's avatars who got the happy love stories. I mean, it's his story, but damn. Although I was thinking about Walter White, his downfall was a steady and slow erosion of his morals and a downward spiral that was clearly and carefully telegraphed: he started off killing out of self-defence and moved on to increasingly ruthless and less justifiable actions that weren't treated as heroic or justifiable. With Dany, while there were red flags, she pretty much got the hero edit, even when she was doing incredibly ruthless things, until the eleventh hour.

The Spanish spoilers are garbage, just an attempt to pull the wool over Jon/Dany shippers’ eyes (just like that person who posted to Westeros.org). Even without reference to any potential leaks, it’s clear that Varys is obviously getting executed by Dany as she once warned him would happen and Dany is obviously going full mad queen.

Book Jon is devious and manipulative as called for, but TV Jon is pretty much a human golden retriever.

Content warnings are out for 8x05: adult content, adult language, and graphic violence. No nudity warnings, so that makes me wonder about the mass rape info from gotit4111. As a reminder, the incredibly violent 8x03 only rated a violence and not a graphic violence warning. Buckle up!

There was a WOTW casting call for a female villager that needed to be in a physical scene requiring waist-up nudity and a soldier for the same physical scene. So there is some sexual assault going on, since we haven’t seen a scene of that nature yet and we won’t in 8x06 (I’m guessing).

I for one welcome our new Wikipedia overlord. On a more serious note, if apolitical, zoned-out Bran is running the council, short of some dramatic increase in his level of interest in non-WW worldly affairs, then it seems likely that effectively Tyrion is the one in charge.

While confirmation bias is definitely a risk, with 8x04 it looks like the pieces could be being put in place for the surviving character endgames described in the /Throwitaway leaks: 1. King Bran: Tyrion being impressed that Bran doesn't want anything (and Varys telling Tyrion that the ideal ruler might be one who doesn't want to rule), Bronn pointing out that you get to become king if you kill enough people, Varys pointing out the merits of Jon which also apply to Bran (male, blood tie to the Starks that will keep the North in the Seven Kingdoms) 2. Tyrion on the council: Bran/Tyrion conversations (it makes sense to establish a relationship if they're going to be working together) 3. Bronn on the council: Tyrion/Bronn reconciliation, Bronn ending up with Highgarden 4. Davos on the council: friendly Davos/Tyrion conversation showing no ill will (indicating they'll be able to work together despite all the "I killed your son" baggage) 5. Arya leaving Westeros: Arya ending her relationship with Gendry, Arya announcing to Sandor that she doesn't intend to return to Winterfell 6. Jon in the far North: Jon/Tormund conversation (Jon tells Tormund he wishes he were going with him, Tormund tells Jon that he has the "real North" in him and says "You never know" when Jon says goodbye, Jon sends Ghost with Tormund) 7. Sansa ruling the North: Tyrion telling Sansa that with Jon in the capital, she'll be the true power in the North

That seems to have been a very deliberate choice on the part of the writers in my opinion. It's also notable in my opinion Dany only busts out "I love you" when she's trying to persuade Jon to keep his claim secret. I think I said this upthread, but the writers' mediocre Jon/Dany romance writing makes a lot more sense in light of 8x04. The writers were never committed their powers 100% to writing a beautiful romance, because they always knew things would go wrong in the worst possible way. Similarly, when 8x01 and 8x02 aired, I thought the Gendry/Arya flirting was forced and the sex scene was weirdly clinical and unsexy. In retrospect, it was never meant to be the stuff of compelling endgame romance, just another step on Arya's journey, and that explains the way it was written. Sansa/Tyrion seems to have much more of a slow burn in S8 (...assuming I'm right about it), although with the characters now separated and what appears to be essentially a Sansa-free KL bottle episode and the epilogue coming up, I'm not sure that much more can happen before the end, unless it's a Hail Mary last-minute declaration thing.

Why not the front? "The Lannisters Starks send their regards." I rewatched the 8x05 promo, and in that shot of Tyrion tentatively approaching Dany at Dragonstone, you can see that her hair is undone and completely loose and frizzy. Her hair hasn't looked that wild since her capture by the Dothraki. That's...not a good sign. (I don't know if this is before or after Dany putting her hair in a battle braid and wearing a dark outfit as seen in one of the preseason promos).