WindyNights

The ironborn are a weird people. One thing I wish GRRM would do is put in a bit more lesbian characters.

They don't call Areo the Walking Camera for nothing. Poor Aeron though. No one appreciates him but me. : (

That's interesting. I don't mind Areo Hotah even if he's barely a character and Damphair is entertaining. But Arys Oakheart matches the description of being the embodiment of indulgence to me. He's just so boring and unnecessary. Favorite PoVs: Jon Davos Cat/Theon Favorite minor PoVS: Victarion Greyjoy Asha Greyjoy JonCon The Greyjoys interest me even if they're not necessarily likeable. And Jon Connnington has the honor of being a badass, no nonsense kinda guy and our first gay POV and I'm interested in the Aegon story. I like the idea that GRRM introduces the ideal hero (Aegon) and the ideal villain (Euron) so late into the story making them both interesting from a meta-point of view.

Yeah the show producer's opinions on Tywin were odd to say the least . They've gone on record saying that they think of Tywin as Lawful Neutral. In addition to that, they took part of his "never smiling" characterization and implanted it onto Stannis. I sometimes wonder if they mixed and matched between the two. And well personally, the way Charles Dance plays Tywin was closer to how I imagined Stannis in my head. This growly man that seems like he's always on the verge of shouting rather than the emotionally constipated man on the show.

Maybe it was supposed to be in medias res and we'll find out later what the context was. Yep she's on (TWOW spoiler)

@shimpy So in the end who ended up being your top 3 POVS on average? Imagine if Ashara's daughter had lived and Ashara had asked Ned to promise to take care of her right before she killed herself. Then Ned the lady-killer would be stuck having to explain two different bastards to Cat. Eddard: Uh.....I've been busy.

Yeah but that's not foreshadowing. That's Euron pulling a Bloodraven and dream-walking into her dream but instead of mentoring her like Bloodraven does with Bran, he rapes her.Euron is basically a handsome Freddy Krueger.

Slayer of lies (Things she'll probably have to kill or reveal as false):4 Stannis- False Messiah (not having shadow could be in reference to the shadow-babies but also to him having little influence in the end. Varys equates shadows with influence in his speech about power) 5 Aegon- False Targaryen (crowd cheering might mean he's going to be a good and popular king) 6 ???- False Dragon Bride of Fire (people she'll marry): 7 The silver horse represents Khal Drogo. It was a gift she got from him for her wedding. 8 The dead man in the prow of the ship with gray lips smiling sadly is most likely a Greyjoy. Considering it's Bride of Fire and Victarion has a volcanic arm now and may be undead then it's probably him. But it could just as well be Euron Greyjoy. 9. The blue rose in the wall of ice that filled the air with sweetness is Jon Snow. A blue rose represents Lyanna's union with Rhaegar. GRRM also typically uses sweetness as a negative in this series. Usually it's in reference to death, poison, foul odors and deceit (covering up foulness). Perhaps it's in reference to Jon being a corpse or Jon coming back wrong (like all people R'hllor resurrects) or that Jon is Dany's death. Maybe all 3. GRRM also loves to connect love, sweet, poison and death to each other. In reference to Dany being the Bride of Fire( as in her husband is fire) there's this: "...the girl in her still yearned for poetry, passion, and laughter. She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time."

I don't think Cleganebowl is happening. Sandor seems be walking around with a permanent limp and is at peace now. There really isn't any catharsis in beating Robert Strong anymore either. He's just a corpse. Can you even say that's Gregor Clegane? Also I don't think Sansa is going back to KL. Her destiny and fate seems more intertwined with Winterfell. And I can't see the Lannister regime lasting long enough to conduct a trial for her. The Lannisters are going down this book finally, mark my words.

I enjoyed those early Tyrion chapters more for the cast he was involved with than for Tyrion, I suppose. I hope we see more Lemore in TWOW. And yeah Tyrion was always self-pitying. It's just in Dance where it was taken up to 11.

I have one character name to say to you....Victarion. His chapters in Essos were fun. And I was amused by the monkey infestation on his ships. Anyways I don't agree that it's Essos that makes people less interesting but Slaver's Bay. I was enjoying Tyrion chapters just fine until he hit Slaver's Bay. TBH, I thought Tyrion's chapter with Aegon were really good.I grew fond of Jon Con's family and it made me care about Aegon's side of the story.

The most interesting thing about this is that Jon, Theon and Jaime's dream are actually one dream from different vantage points. Theon's dream takes place at the feast in the Great Hall of Winterfell with the dead. Jon's dream is in the Crypts of Winterfell. He mentions that he could hear the dead feasting in the hall and sometimes heard Robb and Ned while he walks deeper into the crypt as the Stark kings snarl" this isn't you're place", "you are no Stark" and "go away". “I don’t even dream of Ghost anymore. All my dreams are of the crypts, of the stone kings on their thrones. Sometimes, I hear Robb’s voice, and my father’s, as if they’re at a feast. But there’s a wall between us, and I know that no place has been set for me.” Jaime's dream involves him being transported into some caverns that he doesn't recognize and weren't anything like Casterly Rock's. Well there are caves underneath Winterfell. Also in contrast to the Stark kings telling Jon that this isn't his place, you have this said to Jaime: “What place is this?” “Your place.” The voice echoed; it was a hundred voices, a thousand, the voices of all the Lannisters since Lann the Clever, who’d lived at the dawn of days. It ends with the KG reminding Jaime that he swore to keep the king safe....and the children as well. I don't know if that's foreshadowing anything or not but Jon counts as the king and the a child of Rhaegar as well so you could say that Jaime's place is by Jon's side which is why he's at Winterfell in his dream.

From many polls that I read it went: ASOS> AGOT > ACOK > ADWD > AFFC

@Alayne and everyone else This is actually something that people mess up on all the time. Drogo will not return when Daenerys' womb quickens. The quote goes: "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before." Emphasis on when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child. Daenerys didn't bear a living child at that moment so it can't refer to Drogon. Either Daenerys will never be able to bear a living child and MMZ's just being fancy when she says never or......Daenerys will meet Drogo again in the afterlife once she bears a living child. Meaning she dies in child-birth just like her mom did.

@shimpy Excellent muahaha. You are officially over the wall. But there are still the TWOW sample chapters to tackle: https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/wiki/twow You'll find Theon, Alayne, Mercy and Arianne there. Choose whichever most interests you. They're all excellent imo but I do have a clear favorite. . Tyrion I, Barristan II, Vic I and Arianne II are only available to us in summaries. You don't need to read those. Tyrion II is available through an app and Barristan I is available with the US ADWD paperback editions.

@shimpy If it helps, the last Daenerys chapter is really good imo and her best one in the book. I also find it kinda beautiful in certain areas.

I think this is semi relevant: Interviewer: Both Jaime and Cersei are clearly despicable in those moments. Later, though, we see a more humane side of Jaime when he rescues a woman, who had been an enemy, from rape. All of a sudden we don't know what to feel about Jaime. GRRM: One of the things I wanted to explore with Jaime, and with so many of the characters, is the whole issue of redemption. When can we be redeemed? Is redemption even possible? I don't have an answer. But when do we forgive people? You see it all around in our society, in constant debates. Should we forgive Michael Vick? I have friends who are dog-lovers who will never forgive Michael Vick. Michael Vick has served years in prison; he's apologized. Has he apologized sufficiently? Woody Allen: Is Woody Allen someone that we should laud, or someone that we should despise? Or Roman Polanski, Paula Deen. Our society is full of people who have fallen in one way or another, and what do we do with these people? How many good acts make up for a bad act? If you're a Nazi war criminal and then spend the next 40 years doing good deeds and feeding the hungry, does that make up for being a concentration-camp guard? I don't know the answer, but these are questions worth thinking about. I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there is no possibility of redemption, what's the answer then? [Martin pauses for a moment.] You've read the books? INTERVIEWER: Yes. GRRM:Who kills Joffrey? Interviewer: That killing happens early in this fourth season. The books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey. GRRM: In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal – the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa's hairnet, so that if anyone did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it. The reason I bring this up is because that's an interesting question of redemption. That's more like killing Hitler. Does the Queen of Thorns need redemption? Did the Queen of Thorns kill Hitler, or did she murder a 13-year-old boy? Or both? She had good reasons to remove Joffrey. Is it a case where the end justifies the means? I don't know. That's what I want the reader or viewer to wrestle with, and to debate. Interviewer: I don't know if somebody like Jaime or Cersei can be redeemed. Cersei's a great character – she's like Lady Macbeth. GRRM: Well, redeemed in whose eyes? She'll never be redeemed in the eyes of some. She's a character who's very protective of her children. You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they're her children? There's certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei. She has an almost sociopathic view of the world and civilization. At the same time, what Jaime did is interesting. I don't have any kids myself, but I've talked with other people who have. Remember, Jaime isn't just trying to kill Bran because he's an annoying little kid. Bran has seen something that is basically a death sentence for Jaime, for Cersei, and their children – their three actual children. So I've asked people who do have children, "Well, what would you do in Jaime's situation?" They say, "Well, I'm not a bad guy – I wouldn't kill." Are you sure? Never? If Bran tells King Robert he's going to kill you and your sister-lover, and your three children. . . . Then many of them hesitate. Probably more people than not would say, "Yeah, I would kill someone else's child to save my own child, even if that other child was innocent." These are the difficult decisions people make, and they're worth examining. I like hearing GRRM talk and explain things. This interview was one of the more enlightening interviews that he's given. Would rec people to read it. Here 's the link if anyone wants to read it: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=3

NCW made a huge mistake in episode one. Show Jaime said "The things I do for love "in a smug voice rather than with loathing like his book counterpart I felt that was huge difference and made Jame a lot more unsympathetic. But the show might have done it on purpose as Jaime is a darker character in the beginning seeing as he's a also kin-slayer on the show as well

Mark Addy (Robert) read all the books. Sophie Turner (Sansa) has confirmed that she's only read Sansa chapters. Kit Harrington ( Jon) read the first four books but he was holding off on reading the fifth book for a reason. I think it was partly that he got too way ahead of the character's mindset when he was still trying to portray early Jon. He might've read it before season 5. Allie Allen(Theon) read all the books. Maisie Williams (Arya) had her mom read her the first book only. But before that her mom read all the books and filled her in on a little of Book Arys's story because she was too young to read them. Nicolaj (Jaime) hasn't read the books but his mom has. And she fills him on stuff from time to time. Harry Lloyd( Viserys) has absolutely read the books. Interview with Harry Lloyd: "You became a fan of the “A Song of Ice and Fire” book series [after being cast in the Game of Thrones pilot]. Has your opinion of Viserys changed at all from playing the character to reading the book? How did one inform the other?" "When you read the books, you see him through is sister’s eyes, so you see him as this simple, spoiled, frustrated brat who’s cruel and belligerent, and obnoxious, and very unlikable. In terms of playing him, I had to move away from that to find that even though he’s done terrible things, what’s his point of view? Where did he come from?" "As soon as I looked into more of the history of the Targaryen family and actually read the other books, I found out more and pieced together his backstory, and he became sympathetic. I understood more what motivated him, and the fear he had, and the responsibility he had, and his childishness. I mean, he never really had a parent. That changed a lot my view from reading it to playing it." And can I say that Harry Lloyd's Viserys is so fantastic that I always picture him when I read the books as well as his voice. I'll have to check on the others.

Oh the end of book 5 is more understandable than the end of book 3 . She'd just get curb stomped at the end of book 3 especially since her dragons are as big as dogs at that point, She still needs troops to win though and book 5 is setting her up for more. Ironborn, mercenaries, Unsullied, Dothraki hordes, and Essosi free men. She might actually have power to take Westeros once she's done. Anyways I think part of the fault is that GRRM expected to skip or partially flashback to events that we read in book 5. Like her beginning chapter was supposed to be Dahznak's pit. But he cancelled the timeskip and we had trudge through some of that material that he never expected to write.

Well no. I mean what do you want the Others to do? They can't invade until the Wall falls down. And presumably because it's not Winter yet as well. Personally, I really don't think think the Wall will fall down because the Others suddenly will it. Seems more like it'll be human means and realistically it seems the Wall will be involved in a mini civil war. The NW just assassinated Jon Snow one of the lynchpins for the Wildling alliance. And if the Others invade while Stannis is fighting the Boltons then Stannis' forces die like immediately, You can't expect Roose to actually let Stannis into Winterfell. Roose wouldn't realize what's going on and the severity of the threat. Neither would Roose care. The guy just does things for mild amusement. Okay and on the topic of Aegon, can I just say that I really like his concept just on meta reasons: "There’s nothing organic about the way Young Griff was raised, and GRRM emphasizes this by introducing him to us as if assembled from hidden Hero Parts just offscreen. Aegon feels fake, in a way that has less to do with his lineage than with his own individual story. Namely, it isn’t his." "Specifically, it’s half-Jon’s, and half-Dany’s. Let’s review: Aegon is Rhaegar’s son hidden away from Robert Baratheon’s revenge, posing as the son of a lord who has come to love him like one; the lord is upholding a vow to a loved one fallen during Robert’s Rebellion, and is permanently haunted by his memories of those days." "And he’s also a Targaryen claimant returned to Westeros to overthrow the Usurper’s domain and reclaim the Iron Throne with Fire and Blood, with an exile lord and a bunch of sellswords and idiosyncratic wanderers by his side. " "So on one hand, Aegon’s hijacked our protagonists’ destinies, a marvelous formal trick on GRRM’s part. On the other hand, it’s tragic that he can’t have one of his own; even his decision to invade Westeros is driven by Tyrion, seemingly on a whim. (How perfect is it that Tyrion makes perhaps his most consequential move when he’s seemingly at his most powerless?)"

This. @nksarmi Also narratively the Others can't invade too early or you risk Daenerys coming too late and she ends up invading an apocalyptic Westeros and then she'd wonder why the hell she'd want to live here and turn back to live in Merreen. Also I think your version leaves Daeney much more of boring, straight hero which isn't something GRRM wants to write about. He wants to explore people's choices and their internal struggles. He also wants to explore Daenerys' heroic and villainous side.

Of course, I'm also of the mind that Dany is going to go full-on mad conqueror and in my darkest moments think we might get a Ragnarok scenario where the series ends with Jon and Sansa becoming "King" and "Queen" in the sense that they'll lead the few survivors of humanity into a new age (with Bran watching over humanity as a "New God") once Dany and the Others destroy each other and take most of the existing civilization with it... so take all my theorycrafting for what it is; way too much idle brain time while at work. GRRM is anti-unjustified war. GRRM says he would've fought in WW II because he views that as a justified war but not in WW I which he views as an unnecessary war. Something like fighting the Others is closer to a WW II type situation than a WW I situation. And his Ur text says that they want to wipe out all life. Hard to reason with people like that. But I acknowledge that he might have changed that. I agree with everything else you said for the most part.

This is one of the easiest explanations. They're waiting for Winter and maybe for the Wall to come down.