EmeraldArcher

I think it's because they think LL's long suffering is admirable instead of the exhausting endurance exercise to muster any craps left to give for the audience. I liked Laura Hurley's piece on LL in S3. I think she should have covered the Vertigo-fueled fight between Canary and Black Canary during which both women articulated the audience's major concerns with LL's pathway to becoming BC: they hit almost every one, from LL being selfish and a liar, fraud, and addict to her stealing SL's life. BC's hallucination of SL asking why she had to die for Laurel to take her place was such a damaging and unnecessary bit of dialogue that left me wondering whether LL was truly an awful human being because Vertigo was revealing her worst doubts about herself. I think the EPs or writers got hard ons thinking about a fight between two black leather clad babes and failed to consider the way it seriously undermined LL's motives and legitimacy as a potential hero.

As a newbie, I'd like to ask for some advice. How do you manage to live a productive life once you've discovered the existence of this site, Arrow fan fiction, and Olicity fan vids on YouTube? At my university, other faculty are available to mentor us in work-life balance, but I don't think we have mentors who would know what to do to create an Arrow-work-life balance. Do you schedule time to read/post, or are you able to multitask? I've fallen down the rabbit hole and am almost too delighted by the sensation of the free fall to care about anything else.

I co-sign everything you said (except you being grouchy)! I emphatically agree about a diction coach for EBR--during the date-ask scene in The Calm, her voice went higher as if she were asking a question, but she wasn't. I still cringe when I hear it. And, the whole "you dead and Ra's dead" in My Name Is Oliver Queen was almost unintelligible. Getting back to LL--you've perfectly articulated the problem: her infuriating sense of entitlement. For me, that underpins and undermines her motives for almost anything she did in S2 and S3. Despite her championing of the underdogs through CNRI in S1, her sense of entitlement and self-absorption shone through then, too. I remember the episode when her dad bugged the Arrow phone and used her to trap the Hood. After it all went down, she had the nerve to complain to Tommy that her dad lied to her and used her when she'd been withholding her interactions with the Hood from Tommy and lied about why she was breaking dates with him. In that scene, she seemed utterly clueless about her own culpability or how her actions could have affected her relationships with her father and boyfriend. Again, those types of character moments are the fault of everyone involved in creating LL and showing us who she is in stark contrast to the selfless, brave love interest the EPs say she is on Twitter and in interviews.

Um, I'm so embarrassed--I didn't check the credits or the IMDB pages for those episodes. I was so sure it was Adelaide when I saw her. They look a lot alike and are both beautiful women. (Slinks off in shame)

It was definitely the same actress--Adelaide Kane, a CW actress who stars as Mary, Queen of Scots on Reign. She would be a great addition to the cast because she is a fantastic actor who can nail dramatic scenes. However, I REALLY don't want baby mama and/or baby drama anytime soon. I vote no to any plot that kills my post 3x23 Olicity buzz.

When during a meeting after you've just pitched a career-changing idea to the VP, he tells you that you've found a solution to a problem that keeps him up at night--and you ALMOST blurt out that Arrow spoilers keep you up at night.

I would hope that LL wouldn't react with disinterest and "whatever" to Oliver's admission that he thought the only way for it to end was in his death! He's saying that before he addresses LL, RP, and TQ about taking his place--it was in the event of what he assumed would be his death. I know many people in the audience have become fatigued with Oliver's perpetual self-sacrifice, but the people in the room have pretty intimate relationships with him and should at minimum show a flash of concern at his mentioning his resignation (not just willingness) to die. I'm probably spending too much time on this one scene, but I think it's because I feel that LL becomes even more problematic as a character. I guess I blame everybody involved in telling her story--writers, directors, and KC. At least one of those people should care enough about the character to make her behave authentically.

I think he might be an assassin. During S3 (maybe "The Offer"?), OQ responds to FS's question about how he could even consider joining the LoA with "I've been an assassin." At the time, I thought we would see him be an assassin during S4 or S5 flashbacks because I don't think we've seen him in that role yet in any season's flashbacks. I guess he could have been describing his actions as The Hood in S1, but I don't think he saw himself like that. For example, he had pretty telling discussions with Helena about how he only killed when necessary. The only other period of time that we've already seen was maybe the flashbacks in S3. However, he learned to torture people and a lot of other things from AW, but was not an assassin. Therefore, I think he must become one in an upcoming season's flashbacks, and it makes sense that it would be for the Bratva.

I watched the scene again just now and really paid attention to her position. She is standing near TQ on the front side of the table up until the point when the camera focuses on OQ and FS. When the shot opens up to the rest of the group during TQ's question about where OQ is going, LL has moved to the back corner of the table. It could have been the director's decision based entirely on logistics to accommodate Nyssa's metaphorical and literal move away from her position between OQ and FS to stand with the rest of the group at the front of table. Dig had to stay in position due to his upcoming departure, so maybe LL was shifted back because she no longer had a purpose for the scene. But, the timing is still weird, given her history with OQ--I think the director should have been more mindful of that so that LL didn't seem so put out by what was transpiring in the scene. If LL could eventually support a relationship between SL and OQ, I don't know why she'd suddenly be disgusted by one between OQ and FS. Also, I noticed that when OQ professes his faith in her by identifying her as the first person he knew would carry on his legacy, LL's arms are crossed and she has absolutely no change in expression. That is so unexpected, given her desire to be taken seriously by one of the people who inspired her hero's journey. Yes, she took on the mantle of BC to honor her sister, but OQ was the original hero and the one whose team she associated with. I briefly wondered if her bored look was a callback to her S1 attitude that she didn't need OQ's blessing to date Tommy, but these two situations don't seem comparable. RP was the second person that OQ identified as someone who would continue his legacy, and despite the really complicated relationship between those two men, RP had the grace to nod his head in acknowledgement of OQ's words. So, it just seems like LL should have had some type of reaction.

I agree with this so much! I've re-watched the final TA scene in 3x23 an embarrassing number of times (mostly to hear "I want to be with you"), and I'm always hyper-aware of Laurel's/KC's expressions and positioning. She just seems hard and stoic, which is weird for a scene that calls for relief, a sense of shared success, concern for Oliver's statement that he no longer needs to be a hero, and perhaps any type of emotional response to his declarations to Felicity. As she's an actor who has spent 3 years getting to know her character, I would hope that KC would allow some expression to play across her face in reaction to OQ's public display of love for another woman. She could have been happy that her dear friend and former lover finally found peace and love after 8 horrific years. Or, she could have been wistful or hurt that he was capable of emotional intimacy and honesty with Felicity in a way he'd never been with her. Really, I would have understood any acting choice she'd made that resembled a reaction to anything that happened in that scene, but she was stone cold and standing behind a table as far as possible from the others. The problem with her being stoic and unreadable is that it didn't come across as LL, because then the audience would have wondered what motivated that response in a sort of mini-cliffhanger. The problem is that KC's acting choices make it seem that she's just checked out or that LL is a hard, self-absorbed, uncaring bitc. . . um, person. I hope this doesn't come across as the bashing warned against by the mods. I mean it as a critique of acting choices and weak characterization, which can be improved.

Hi, wonderwall! I've loved reading your posts. I just introduced myself in The Quiver thread, but to answer your question, I like the posters here from what I've read. I love Arrow, especially Oliver, and just wanted to be an active member of the community. There's a lot of thoughtful discussion here, and I value that.

Hello. I'm new here--I've already been reading the Arrow forum multiple times . . . reading . . . all the time. . . for several months, but just signed up today. I didn't even know this haven existed until someone on the IMDB board sneered about it being full of "stupid Olicity fan girls." I checked it out immediately and haven't left. I read the Arrow board on IMDB for about a year, but never signed up for a username. I mostly enjoyed reading spoilers and the posts of some of the more thoughtful people. However, it's not moderated, so misogyny and the unfortunate term "butt hurt" plague it horribly. I love the sense of community and respect here, so I'm jumping in. Also, from reading The Clocktower thread, I discovered that very talented people write fan fiction--how did I not know about fan fiction?!? So, I've recently spent almost every waking hour reading some fabulous stories. Bliss. Short bio: I teach at a university in the US. I love Arrow and almost all the superhero shows and movies. I claim that I prefer movies with more spectacle than plot, but I secretly enjoy quirky, independent movies as much as the ones that go boom and have rousing scores. I turned 40 this year and survived. I adore Olicity to an embarrassing degree, but my husband is certain I'm going to run away with the Arrow or SA, whoever I meet first.