Set Them Free

I agree that this is what Sutton was trying to do. But when you have experienced loss, you get that even comments made with the best of intentions can be annoying. I know many people will not agree with this, but I don't believe every sudden death is the same. Suicide and mental illness are tragic. But the murder of someone, especially someone young, in a holocaust or ethnic cleansing or genocide is just on another level. I just think most of us should never assume we can know anything about what is like to lose someone to that kind of hate unless we have been through it ourselves. I am not sure how Diana would react to someone else saying what Sutton said, although I suspect she would put any of these girls on her s***list in a heartbeat. Also, I would counter that the only reason people won't allow for the possibility that a Bosnian refugee who lost a brother to ethnic cleansing had a legitimate reason to be put off by Sutton's comments is because they don't like Diana.

I get why people don't like Diana. But (I am probably alone in this), I also get why Diana is annoyed with Sutton. What Diana was describing with the death of her brother was an atrocity. And Sutton came back with something like "it's hard when you don't get to say goodbye." I suspect what is actually hard for Diana is to know that her brother will never get a chance to chase his dreams, have a family and grow old. That it is hard for her to know that her brother was probably tortured before being slaughtered like an animal, by evil people who felt like they had the right to "cleanse" this world of him because he was a Bosnian muslim. It has nothing to do with not saying goodbye. I get that Sutton was just trying to commiserate. I can only imagine that Sutton doesn't know much about what actually happened in Bosnia? But, I can see how from Diana's point of view, Sutton's response would not feel remotely empathetic or relevant, and just Sutton wanting to talk about how she felt after her father's death. There are certain experiences in this life that people can tell you about, and the only proper response is "I am so sorry. I can't imagine how that must feel." On another note, I wonder if Diana's muslim heritage is contributing to her disdain for Sutton's love of bacon.

When Crystal first said “other things were said”, I assumed it was Sutton’s support for Dolce and Gabbana despite their racist ad in China back in 2019. I also thought the real reason that Garcelle thought Crystal was gunning for Sutton was because of Sutton’s support for D&G. But bringing that up on the show would probably create a lot of collateral damage, for Sutton’s business, and possibly for the show (as I read somewhere that D&G has sued others that have talked about their ad.) After watching the show and what Crystal actually said, I am convinced that the “dark” comment still refers to Sutton’s defense of D&G. But, in any case, everyone acting like they can’t possibly figure out what Crystal would find so dark, when there is such a huge story out there, is pretty disingenuous. I like Crystal. Still, when Garcelle basically insinuated that Crystal had nefarious motives with Sutton, Crystal should have just said “I am sorry you feel that way” and moved on. She could have avoided obvious trap.

No, I haven't met Rinna. And before this, I don't recall a specific issue between Rinna and Sutton. Sutton was introduced as Rinna's very rich and connected friend. I think Rinna will go low and stir shit to keep her job on this show, But that doesn't mean she is going to risk a valuable friendship in real life over a few tickets to a charity event.

Honestly, no. I am sure there is alot going on around an event like this. If a table is released, it probaly just gets resold in 5 minutes. It is not a disaster that has to be brought to the attention of the board. On the other hand, Kyle's thing was a small, silent auction held in her back yard attended by her friends. It just doesn't seem the same to me. Like I said before, I don't think Rinna would cause a scene at the event itself. The reality is Sutton is still rich and connected, and even when such people do something flakey, you may not want to embarrass them.

That was a much smaller thing, wasn't it?

I don't think board members would necessarily be privy to that level of detail. If she did know, it would be very unprofessional for her to use her position to out Sutton. That's probably why she did not want any of it talked about.

I know people love Sutton, but what Sutton presented is still not proof that Lisa is lying. The EJF event itself was on February 24, 2019. The email Sutton read to us was dated February 23. Two days before the event (February 22), Rinna thought she had a ticket from Sutton, but she did not. So she starts scrambling to get one. In parallel, Sutton worked to solve the issue, but in the meantime Rinna also found an alternate way to get in. So both women think they are right, and neither is lying. What Sutton would need to show in order to prove Rinna is lying is a email to Rinna with information about the tickets, and an email from Rinna acknowledging them. The table is still a bit of a mystery. If Sutton did have a table, and Rinna / Hamlin were meant to be her guests, why is she buying separate tickets for them the day before the event? I assume tables have to be bought well in advance, and include tickets for everyone seated at them.

I imagine Rinna would have much preferred for everyone to believe that she was there because Elton John comped her ticket. If she fusses at Sutton in public about canceling her ticket, everyone will know that is not the case. Not saying I believe that, just that there is a possible explanation.

I think it is possible to attend these types of events without sponsoring a table. Sutton being there and even sitting next to Rinna does not prove that she sponsored the table they were sitting at. They even said it on the show. Sutton could have released the table at the last minute for some reason, as long as she let the charity keep her donation. I am not saying she did. I am just saying that what was presented on the show does not prove Rinna lied.

Let me say that I 100% believe Sutton bought and paid for Rinna and Harry's attendance at the Elton John thing, and that she did not cancel. But I am not understanding how Sutton's receipt proves that Lisa's story is wrong? Rinna said that Sutton cancelled the tickets that she bought for Rinna at the last minute. A receipt that says Sutton bought the tickets at one time does not prove that she didn't cancel them later on. Even Sutton seemed aware of this, as she was hesitating to provide her paperwork. Am I missing something? I don't think Sutton cancelled the tickets. But I could image a scenario where one of Sutton's people got mad about the way Rinna was treating Sutton and called up Rinna's agent to say "Sutton doesn't want Rinna at her table", The Agent interpreted that is "your tickets are cancelled". So everyone could be right, even with the paperwork.

So, with a four part reunion, is that really all the discussion we are going to get on the Crystal / Sutton drama? Did no viewer ask "Crystal, what were you referring to when you said to Sutton, 'You're just jealous'"? Did no viewer ask "Sutton, were you upset with yourself at Garcelle's birthday party for not brining a gift, and is that why you lashed out at Crystal'"? I would have liked to have heard more about the deep conversations that Crystal and Sutton had that have led them to a better place now. I think it could have been a teaching moment for a lot of people.

I am wondering if Erika asked a producer to cut out the part where she said Tom calls her, and ask the girls not to mention it again. She may have remembered after saying that on camera that somehow this was not something she should be disclosing. Crystal may have overheard this request, but Garcelle did not. But production did not tell either Crystal or Garcelle not to bring it up again. So when Garcelle did bring it up again, Erika knew she was screwed, because production did not have her back. Hence the reaction. (I admit, I see production conspiracies everywhere...)

Yeah, sure, Crystal could be embellishing. But people have also said she lied, and I haven't seen that. If this is all about Crystal embellishing, then they really should let this go. No one is ever going to agree.

It is interesting to me that we never get to see an end-to-end discussion that Crystal has with someone else about the incident with Sutton. We see the entire conversation she had with Sutton originally, but (IIRC) all the other discussions are flashback snippets, and other people's reports on what she said. We conveniently never see what the women might have said to prompt the conversation. I think that is why it is hard for me to sign up to the "Crystal lied" viewpoint. I find it entirely possible that Crystal truly meant to never discuss the incident again after talking to Sutton. But production was there, and I can imagine they asked the other women to get Crystal to talk about it so that they had more footage to work with, and the women were their typically relentless selves. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think we can be sure either way. When Sutton asked Crystal if she talked about it with the other girls, she did not lie. She said "people were asking me", and there was footage to back that up. And then in this episode, we see Kyle bring it up, Crystal telling them she does not want to talk about it, and Sutton not letting it go. So she had to talk about it yet again. Kind of backs up what Crystal said even more. IMHO, I think Crystal, as a newbie, is still figuring out how to handle this producer driven dead horse beating. She may not like Sutton, but she seemed pretty done with this topic.

If we are taking Crystal to task for her story allegedly changing (and I think the jury is still out on that), then it seems to me Sutton's story is changing as well. This episode was the first time I heard Sutton say "I thought I heard you say come in". Seems to me that if she actually thought she was invited in, she would have mentioned that the very first time Crystal talked to her about it back in Tahoe, and every other time this came up. Because if she actually thought she heard a "Come in", that would explain pretty much everything afterwards. To me, Sutton's story changed in a far more substantial way in the last episode than Crystal's has this whole time. That being said, this is all kind of petty. I really hope Sutton figures out that she is being used to create a distraction, and does not take the bait next time. And while I agree Crystal is in general coming off cold, mean and unlikable, I admire her for not taking the easy route and taking back the word violated. She did tell Sutton to her face back in Tahoe that she felt violated. It is how she felt in the moment, and everyone else needs to accept it and move on.

I thought it was tacky of Garcelle to try to put down Paris Hilton in front of her mother. Also, I admired the way Kathy handled it, and will be forever grateful that she spared us the "how dare you come after my child" drama that was being teased before that scene. I think Kathy is just acting like a ditz for the cameras. I bet she is a lot smarter and savvier than she is letting on.

I like Teddi too. I don’t understand how Denise can admit with a smile in her TH that she has said bad things about Teddi, but Teddi is the mean girl for not accepting Denise’s shifting denials about what she did or did not say.

Ok. I see what you are saying. I see the logic of not letting the conversation on what was said get started. But, fact is, I did not believe a word of what Brandi was saying when she was talking to Kyle and Teddi. I only started to believe it somewhat after I saw Denise’s reaction. But maybe I am just being hard on the wrong person.

Well, I can’t disagree with any of this.

First off, thank you both for engaging with me. I did not realize how much I missed debating things with human beings. No, Teddi, Erika and Kyle do not react well in many situations. But they get called out on it by the audience. And I actually like Denise. I just don’t feel sorry for her. I don’t feel sorry for Teddi, Erika and Kyle either when their crap comes to light. If they don’t want their private lives on TV, don’t do the show. We all speculate so much on motivations. You can believe the best of people, or the worst of people. But you can’t know for sure, so too much pondering of motivations can drive you crazy. Denise can believe Teddi is out to get her. Or she can believe Teddi is just trying to warn her. Or that Teddi succumbed to pressure (which seems to be what Denise actually believes). But it doesn’t change the fact that her real problem is with Brandi, does it?

Yes, if you decide to make a living by being on a show like this, it is on you to handle yourself. If you can’t, find another way to support yourself and your family. But then again, maybe what Denise is doing is working. Certainly a lot of people are on her side. For me, personally, if I was at a dinner table and multiple women said that a mutual friend told them I was trashing them, and then I slept with her, I would first want to know exactly what this girl had said about me, word for word (This is where Denise lost me, saying none of it was true without even knowing or wanting to know what was said, even after she found out it was already on camera). Then I would thank them for bringing this to my attention, let them know that none of it was true because anything Issues I have with them, I would bring up with them one-on-one and not talk about them behind their back (to Denise’s credit, she did this). Finally, I would confront that person that was spreading lies about me and get them to apologize (If Denise does this, I will probably retract my current opinion.) Pretty much every woman I know in real life would do something similar. To me, it seems like the natural response. As to the motivations of the women who were reporting this to me? Who gives a shit? They are just the messengers. Denise’s real problem is Brandi, and that is who she should be dealing with.

Here’s the thing. I think that, in real life, women are infinitely capable of handling confrontational situations where multiple people are against us. In our work, with our families and friends, we all face situations where multiple people disagree with us about something, and we calmly, patiently but determinedly bring these people around to our way of thinking. But on this show, the women often overreact (Erika, Rinna with Kim Richards). Or they just kind of sulk and try to run away. I think there was a way for Denise to handle that evening that would have left everyone convinced that Brandi is lying to get on the show. One thing I will agree with Denise on. Lisa Rinna is a bad friend. I think if Rinna had given her a little heads up, a text, whatever, Denise would have been forewarned and probably handled it all much better.

I see where you and others are coming from. I do believe that Brandi’s confession on camera was orchestrated by production, and that Kyle was probably a willing participant. (I am on the fence about what Teddi knew in advance, I could go either way.) I believe production got pissed with the multiple “Bravo, Bravo, Bravo” moments with Denise, and decided to show her who is boss. It did not come up organically, and so that was cold and cruel. Where it ranks is up to Housewives Historians to decide. Also, having been spoiled on the Brandi thing, I also did think that the Lesbianism/threesome conversation at Denise’s house was a remarkable coincidence, and that Denise’s real reason for wanting to shut it down was because she was worried about where it would go, and what her kids might hear directly about their mom. But I think at Denise’s dinner, the other girls weren’t really after Denise. I believe Dorit, Rinna and Erika decided in the beginning of the season to go after Kyle and Teddi’s closeness, and speculate openly that they were lesbians for a storyline. The pivot to Denise only came afterwards. Personally, I think Dorit is still a little miffed that the original plan got shelved.

What you said in your original post was... The “Except...” implies that what happened to the other women was not cruel, but what happened to LVP and Denise is. This show has been the pain jr. olympics for a while. I say jr. olympics because the problems and spats are mostly over nonsense. Even this. Aaron is not going to believe Brandi over his own wife, and most people won’t believe Brandi over Denise. Their marriage will be fine. Still, I understand that I could have a different view because I have not been through anything like this. I am sorry for what you went through.