Shadowcat2576

I think part of it is the fact that Elektra is such a caricature that the part requires more acting then some of the other roles. For example, I've seen videos of Mj Rodríguez speaking and she sounds pretty similar to Blanca. If the actress playing Elektra had any vocal feminization training, depending on when she had it and what techniques she uses, it could be a factor. A lot of transgender women end up with "breathy" voices. Also remember that while it could be a voice she's used for many years, it's still not likely to be her natural voice.

While I'm not a fan of the character of Stan, I'm a bit disappointed that they chose to end the Stan/Angel storyline. I get that the main focus is the NYC ball culture, but this show has given us a lot to explore and discuss about the LGBT experience and especially that of transgender women. I think watching Angel try to adjust to the New Jersey suburbs life she thinks she wants would be interesting. So would seeing how people outside the culture react to Stan and Angel as a couple.

I believe like many things, that she is a good Mother, that she "passes" better than anyone else, the idea that her guy would stick around because she is just so fabulous is a fantasy she created. Depending on where one is, therapy may be required for HRT but you can also usually get it through informed consent. To receive GCS, therapy is required now and 30 years ago as well as at least one year of living full-time.

That is a good point, but I was thinking more about the variety that transgender bodies come in. Laverne Cox, Janet Mock, Mj Rodriguez, Indya Moore, and Angelica Ross are all stunning. I would wager though that Cox and Mock would be considered by most to be the most "feminine". Maybe it's just me, but I love seeing that Blanca, Angel and Candy has flatter chests and less curves. This is realistic, it doesn't make them less beautiful. We come in all shapes and sizes, like all women do.

@Scarlett45 I’m glad that there was a thread like this where I could share some experiences without derailing episode talk. Obviously there are some social and economic characteristics that I don’t share with the characters in Pose or the actresses, but I’m happy to provide any insight I can. Yes, the fact that the transgender characters are actually played by transgender people, especially women of color that may have some connection to to culture being represented is important. I know that there are people arguing that actors are actors and should be able to play any role. Here is part of the problem. Hollywood repeatedly casts male actors to play transgender women. Why? Because they want an easy way to show quickly that the character is trans/masculine. Many transgender actresses are told they look too feminine to play the role of a transgender woman, but also that they can’t be cast as a non transgender role because then people will assume the character is transgender. Another important aspect of casting transgender actresses is being able to see the variety that our bodies come in.

I happen to have a very good man in my life, definitely one of the rare ones.

I can only speak of my personal experiences and those I've heard of other transgender women. Most of us are very leery of relationships with men. As has been pointed out in this show if a man is looking for a transgender woman specifically it is usually for that one attribute, which most women aren't very comfortable with. There is also unfortunately still a lot of stigma for the partners of transgender women, that they must be gay, even if their partner is post operative. As I've heard many times, finding a man that wants sex, or to treat a transgender woman as a fetish, or dirty little secret is easy. Finding one that sees us and treats us as they would any other woman is very rare. Add the fact that if you just want to date as a woman, and not a "transgender woman" that means that at some point you have to tell the guy. Will they be accepting or will they walk away. Will they get angry or even violent. Even post-op that is still a concern. Being post-op makes things in some ways harder, like this show also points out. The uniqueness/fetish factor is gone but there's still stigma and baggage. We're taught to fear men. Probably more than cisgender women are. Men are the grown versions of the boys that usually teased and bullied us, perhaps the father that was ashamed of us or beat us. We're taught that men are dangerous, that they can and do kill us. If that is where your baseline is coming from it can be very hard to get to a place where you believe that you are worthy of a full, equal, loving relationship.

I doubt Angel does what she does in hopes of a finding a relationship. We saw her try to get a regular job in the first episode. Unfortunately, like a lot of transgender women she found sex work as means of survival. As she told Stan, the peep show is infinitely safer than being a street prostitute.

At the time, it was probably very literal. There were a lot fewer surgeons in the US doing SRS then, the waiting lists were (still are) long, and the requirements for surgery could have been stricter (I know many surgeons/therapists at the time required transgender women to be ultra feminine and perfectly able to pass as a cisgender straight woman.) Bangkok is an easier, cheaper, and just as qualified if not better, alternative.

Your observations are very astute. I agree that Damon and Ricky's relationship is the most equitable. They are both young gay men in similar circumstances. I read an article a few months ago by a transgender woman about the differences in relationships and sexual power with men prior to transition (as a gay man) and after transition (as a straight woman) she noted that there was a definite imbalance that she did not feel before. My own experiences reflect that as well. I think the relationships/sexual attitudes we are seeing with the women are very interesting and I appreciate the variety. Unfortunately, sex is too often seen as the only tool a transgender woman has. Electra and Angel both use sex as a means of support/survival, yet are obviously bothered by the fact that the thing that draws men to them is the thing they most hate. Candy and Aphrodite(?) appear a bit more comfortable with it. Electra and Angel of course both have the sex for money aspect going. I don't see Electra ever feeling comfortable in a relationship where she wasn't kept like a queen and priced treasure. I think Angel wants the security of a relationship, used her experience with Electra to get what she sees as security from Stan, but would ultimately be happy if a guy carried her off to a 2 bedroom home in Iowa.

Electra is stunning and I doubt if I saw the actress or character in public that I would every clock her. There is however a difference between passing and being stealth. Passing means that people assume you are the gender you are presenting as. Stealth means that you make efforts to make sure no one finds out you are transgender. The name Electra Abundance screams drag queen, and we've never seen anyone including the Dr. refer to her as anything else. She'd have to give up the balls, which I don't see her doing. Electra is not one for a 9-5 office job.

Oh I adore both Angel and Patty and would love to see them form a friendship and leave Stan behind. Does anyone have to know Angel is trans, no, but that's also not unfortunately the only thing about her that I doubt fits in Stan's world. No, Stan shouldn't lie or cheat on Patty, and some of behavior towards Angel is bad too. Personally, I think Angel's expectations are part of the problem. In many ways as the kept mistress, she is a plaything. Now, that doesn't mean that feelings aren't involved or real, but situational awareness is a thing. As far as the ladies' looks, I agree, I wish I looked nearly as good. I think Angel and Blanca "pass" the best. Electra is stunning but her height, style and overall demeanor hurt her. To me, Candy passes the least, but I think that's part of her character, and I'm sure the actress is beautiful.

Unfortunately both the end of her relationship and the outcome of her "date" were very predictable. The majority of guys, especially those that pay, want pre or non operable transgender women because they want that exotic porn experience or are gay but feel being with a transgender woman means they aren't. As a postop woman, all she's bringing to the table is just what 1,000s of other women can bring, plus a ton of baggage. Now could Electra find a great guy? Possibly, but it's not going to be the kind of guy she wants. For one, her attitude would need a real adjustment. For another, especially for the time period, she would need to be stealth, which for all her talk of passing, she is nowhere near.

We also have to remember that Pose is set 30 years ago. Stan is very obsessed with the image he feels he needs to portray. Even if Stan is straight (which until they show him having sex or being attracted to a man, I think he is) someone like Angel does not fit with the image he wants the world to see. Even today, getting most people to understand that a man that is in a relationship with a transgender woman can be straight is very hard. In 1987 it would have been impossible, and I imagine being thought of as gay would be pretty much the end of a career in NYC high finance.

I avoided reading about the controversy so I did not fully know what to expect. I wasn't too surprised that this was a group of Mormon families. The whole "it's not gay, it's SSA" thing got a bit creepy, the fact that all of them, men and women, were almost like they were reading it off the church pamphlet. It's sad that religion and society has done so much to convince some people that this is the only "correct" way to have a family. I felt sad for both the men and women on the show because I don't feel any of them are living the fullest lives they could be. Some of the wives in particular just had kind of a dead expressionless look on there faces.