shron17
-
Posts
542 -
Joined
Content Type
Blogs
Gallery
Downloads
Discussion
Posts posted by shron17
-
-
5 hours ago, voiceover said:
I’m sad that there wasn’t a 1st time significant “I love you” moment. Wonder if ASP ever addressed that.
This is from an interview ASP did during season 5 or 6:
QuoteMA: Why haven't Luke and Lorelai said "I love you" to each other?
AS-P: To me, they say "I love you" to each other every single day. Everything that they do, the way they care for each other, the way they take care of each other.… "I love you," for me, is a tricky phrase on television because I think it's way overused, as it is in life. I think they constantly button scenes with, "I love you." "I love you, too." "I love you, Mom." "I love you, Butchy." "I love you, Johnny." "I love you, Fluffy." There's just nothing but I love yous and so little goes behind it. And part of what I love about Luke and Lorelai is they don't do that. They just love each other. They just take care of each other. They just support each other. They do everything that you're supposed to do and they don't have to say "I love you" 100,000 times. And when the words finally come out and when we feel like we actually need to write them down, it's probably going to come at a very odd time. -
12 hours ago, Crs97 said:
What Lorelai shouldn't have done was give an apology and then get annoyed that Emily didn't accept it right away while blaming Emily for asking for a nice story. Unfortunately, that was what Lorelai did.
Also, I thought it horrible that Lorelai apparently hadn't actually seen Emily for 4 months since the funeral but assumed she was still angry because she hadn't returned her calls or emails. Most people would want to make sure their parent was doing okay after the loss of their spouse however bad their relationship was.
-
13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:
Too bad we couldn't have explored why Luke pushed Lorelai away instead of the April stuff.
I always thought season 6 was written to show that Luke was really just trying handle the April stuff in the best way he could, and was not pushing Lorelai away. He made a lot of mistakes which partially accounted for Lorelai feeling as though she was being pushed away, and definitely had problems with low self esteem. But Lorelai also contributed by: 1) expecting Luke's life to continue to revolve around her and Rory; and 2) misinterpreting Luke's intentions when his behavior didn't meet her expectations. This also ties into Luke saying Lorelai "set up their lives" in AYITL Summer. That line could be explaining the problems between them in season 6 were at least partially due to Lorelai setting up their lives in a way that didn't work for Luke at that point in time.
-
6
-
-
3 hours ago, Anela said:
I was going to say he was the only man that she was really vulnerable around, but then I remembered she was the one to go to Max's house, and talk about getting back together.
Luke was the only one she proposed to though. Lorelai always let men pursue her rather than the other way around. And really, she just told Max she missed him but had no idea how to fix things--that part had to come from him.
-
1
-
-
I don't suffer from serious depression, but find it's impossible to continue feeling sad, angry, upset or depressed while watching GG.
-
2
-
-
2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:
And I think the writers contribute to this absurd contention by making Kate as a child abhor her mom.
I found the flashback where Kate decided not to sing in the talent show very telling. Rebecca gave Kate the dress and then told her she was the best singer in the house, which gave Kate back her confidence. But then she overheard her mom singing the same song in the shower so much better and came to the conclusion that her mom lied to make her feel better, Not really Rebecca's fault (though I tend to think telling a child they're the best prettiest, smartest, etc. is always a bad idea), but definitely bad timing. It's too bad Kate didn't go ahead and sing in the talent show since positive feedback from outside the family would have done her a world of good. Mixed in with her other issues around her mom and her tendency to compare herself to Rebecca, Kate was now inclined to discount every compliment Rebecca gave her and magnify every criticism. Parents do need to be mindful of how they praise their children, especially those with low self-esteem.
-
7
-
-
On 9/19/2017 at 8:18 PM, tarotx said:
Logan didn't "force" his perception. The use of that word is something I will fight hard against. Logan owned his thoughts and mind while Rory had issues standing her ground. She is like this with every strong personality. With Logan, Rory had plenty of time to talk and get her thoughts out. In this bridesmaid example, Logan even tells her to write a pro-con list because he believes it will agree with him.
The real issue is that Rory doesn’t give her feelings. She states facts that Logan doesn’t believe are true.
Rory made her feelings about what Logan did quite clear when he found her after the wedding. But Logan never asked Rory how she felt about him presently and chose instead to use his charm and logic to convince her that he didn't cheat and that she should just forget about it. So he won and she went home with him, but Logan ignored the probability that she still had strong feelings of anger and betrayal and it backfired. Sure, Rory should have handled it differently and not kept assuring Logan they were okay, but he doesn't seem able to give her a safe space to talk about her feelings without needing to defend herself. I don't understand why the fact that Rory needs time to think and process to know her feelings means she's wrong and Logan's right since he knows his own mind. In many relationships one person is more assertive and one more passive but that doesn't mean the more assertive person can just steamroll right over the other person's feelings without consequence. This dynamic of their relationship played out again when Logan accepted the job in San Francisco, proposed and offered Rory a new life without bothering to discuss it with her. When she balked at his plan, and explained why she'd come to that decision, Logan walked away saying it was all or nothing.
On 9/19/2017 at 8:18 PM, tarotx said:Rory isn’t going to win this issue on rather or not Logan cheated on her. He didn’t cheat on her. And not just in his mind. She knows it.
Well that's one possible perception, but I agree with what Rory said in Bridesmaids "To break up, you have to tell the other person." Yes, Rory refused to leave with Logan after the fight but neither said it's over. And Rory didn't call after but neither did Logan; yet he was the one who started sleeping with others. Their "relationship silence" in Diorama is completely irrelevant since they were not in a relationship at that point. I don't agree that Rory knows Logan didn't cheat on her, but think she didn't think he was capable of/willing to see her point of view and gave up. In fact, I think it's possible that Rory's passiveness with Logan stems from fear that he'll end the relationship if she disagrees with him.
These are just my opinions, and I understand that others see it differently. Since you quoted my post I replied but I'm not really interested in debating Logan and Rory.
-
2
-
-
20 hours ago, tarotx said:
And he didn't make up facts either. He just knew his positions. Rory often didn"t. And not just with Logan. With everybody. When she stands her ground, Rory gets her way.
We're actually saying the same thing but with different interpretations. I didn't mean Logan made up facts but that he forced his perceptions of the facts on Rory. You say Logan knows his positions (his opinions, his own mind) and that Rory doesn't. We saw Logan do this several times to Rory but the one that bothers me most is after the bridesmaid incident. Rory was upset and confused and understandably wasn't sure what to think until Logan stepped in with his questions and guided Rory to forgiveness and going home with him. Logan never bothers to find out how Rory feels about something or lets her figure things out for herself. But then she treats Logan badly because she hasn't worked through her feelings, and Logan blames her for not forgiving him even though he pushed her into it until it's wiped away when Logan has his accident.
-
2
-
-
13 hours ago, Anela said:
One that nag that bothered me, was that she seemed to be more interested in angling an invitation to a party, with a certain famous guest. She was in awe of the people he got to be around, and didn't appreciate. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is likely), her interest seemed to develop from his lack of interest at first. He did the same thing as Jess: waited for her to bring it up.
Interesting insight. I've tried to figure out when Rory's interest started and could only conclude it was around the time she was trying to get invited to the party and stemmed from his family's power and prestige. The idea that Logan's disinterest caused Rory's interest makes a bit more sense to me. I've also read a theory that Rory came to depend on Logan to validate her as a person and a journalist, which would explain why she let him talk her out their breakups and why she was seeing him in the revival.
On 9/12/2017 at 10:08 PM, Bringonthedrama said:I've wondered if Rory's attachment to Logan "the jerk" (as Jess called him) was someone a psychological response to missing out on her father's love and attention. Even she acknowledged similarities between Logan and Christopher when they compared getting kicked out of schools. Yes, Rory had Richard's love, but she was not one of Richard's top priorities on a weekly basis. Logan often made her feel like she was a top priority for him, which made it easier for her to ignore or forgive the controlling and other behaviors she or family/friends didn't like.
This makes a lot of sense too. Rory probably couldn't help but wonder what her life would have been like with the privileges her parents were brought up with and Logan was her connection to that life.
On 9/11/2017 at 6:49 PM, tarotx said:Rory and Logan have this kind of verbal pro - con way of making decisions. With Rory getting to make the final decision. "Your choice Ace".
Well, I think Logan only said that once, and he always guided their decision making talks and came up with the pros and cons. In fact, it seems to me he learned quickly to use Rory's method of logical decision-making in his favor by feeding her the "facts" as he saw them.
-
6
-
-
Yes, Logan did support Rory in his own way, it's just that his way meant he always kept the upper hand. Possibly a personality trait he picked up from Mitchum, which is fine for those who want that kind of relationship. It just never seemed right for Rory. E.g. he didn't even tell her he had an offer out in SF until after he accepted it, picked out a ring for Rory and found a house he could tempt her with. After saying in Hay Bale Maze that he would factor her into his career decisions. The fact that she didn't have a job or a place to go didn't mean she wanted those decisions made for her without any input.
4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:It was as though she didn't follow a very specific path, the world has failed her.
Everyone expected Rory "to do great things." Didn't Paris even say that? Such a lot of pressure to put on someone. For the grandparents, their disappointment in Lorelai magnified it even more. Maybe for Lorelai too--sometimes it seemed as though Rory was meant to make up for her failings. Although Lorelai was nearly always supportive of Rory, even in the revival.
-
4
-
-
14 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:
I have never been on board TeamLogan, and couldn't give any reason other than he's a smarmy, entitled, rich kid, somethingoranother. Watching a few epis here and there on FreeForm and UP, I get angry when I realize now that he takes every opportunity he can to gaslight (overused word lately, I know) Rory. When Rory stands up to him to say "Hey, you did this thing, and this thing made me upset with you. I don't like when you do those things!" He just stands there with his smarmy smuggy grin and starts with "Wait, slow down. Did this thing physically hurt you? Did I specifically tell you I wouldn't do this specific thing? No? Then what's the big deal? You're getting all bent out of shape for nothing..." kinds of comebacks, and Rory loses all strength and backbone and turns into this timid and suddenly self-doubting person who can barely say "no" and barely look at him... it just infuriates me.
I agree with this so much. It always felt to me like Logan was trying to manipulate/control Rory by keeping her off balance. The only time I liked Rory with Logan was when she went to him with her "I'm a girlfriend" speech. But Rory stuck to that for all of 2 minutes before she let Logan convince her she was saying that so he would agree to give up his other girls. I always thought she should have taken quite a bit longer to be convinced that this guy who never had exclusive relationships was all of a sudden willing to go there with her.
-
7
-
-
2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:
They never gave up on her or Rory, and I think that goes to show how neither Emily/Richard were true monsters. Monsters are the Haydens (sans Christopher, because he was a deadbeat but not a total monster).
I guess it depends on your definition of monsters. It seems to me Emily and Richard were never going to be happy with Lorelai unless she wanted the same things they wanted for her. Maybe I'm just lucky I was raised by parents who, though not perfect by any means, never told their kids who they should be. And sure, the things they wanted for her were not so terrible and she could have gone along with them long enough to still get where she wanted to be, and if it weren't for Rory she probably would have. But I still think one that's one of the worst things you can do to your kid, especially once they reach the age Lorelai was when she left. Imagine trying to raise a child in such a toxic environment that requires fighting constantly just to be who you are? Parenting is demanding and hard enough without all that drama, and I think Rory's childhood would have been much less happy. I always thought Lorelai left so she could be the kind of parent to Rory that she wanted to be, and I respect that choice.
2 hours ago, deaja said:I don't think you can look at Emily's treatment of Lorelai (such as being unforgiving, etc) in later years without looking at the context of Lorelai having cut her out of her and Rory's life for years, returning only when she needed/wanted money. We don't know fully what the relationship was like before that, but the wound from your daughter running away from home with your granddaughter (we know she was in bed for a month afterward) would be a deep one, and would definitely impact your future interactions.
I think we can tell quite a bit about their relationship by the way that Richard and Emily reacted when Lorelai left. First off, Lorelai was months away from being free and clear of her parents, if she wanted. Many parents would have taken that as a wake up call--if their almost adult daughter left, should they maybe make changes in the way they habitually treat her? But they still blamed everything on Lorelai, even when they were back in touch. They could have visited regularly to check on her and Rory, made sure they had everything they needed and gone about trying to rebuild their fractured relationship. They were the parents, the adults with more maturity and could have learned from what happened instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over. Instead, Emily wished Mia had sent Lorelai home like an errant child and more or less continued to treat her like she was a child throughout the series.
-
2
-
-
1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:
To give one example of support, they provided a home and necessities for their daughter and her child when said daughter became pregnant as a teenager.
Yes, they did great in physical support. But emotional support is also very important to children. I understand Lorelai had a very independent, stubborn personality that was difficult for her parents to deal with, but if a parent doesn't make any effort to support their child emotionally they're going to create a very unhappy person. Also, we saw Lorelai apologize to Rory several times for her mistakes, but I don't remember seeing Emily admit to any mistake let alone apologize. It seems to me throughout the show and probably before, both Emily and Richard had very little concern for Lorelai's feelings, happiness and general well being.
-
2
-
-
36 minutes ago, elang4 said:
As for cutting for out, I guess she could have made more of an effort.
I agree somewhat. But Emily was so negative towards Lorelai--we see that over and over in the show. The negativity was already there before she ran off with Rory, that just made it worse. In the scene where Emily finds the note she's complaining about the stroller . Lorelai was very young and trying to do something very difficult by raising Rory on her own, and I completely understand why she didn't want to be around people who were always telling her she was wrong.
10 minutes ago, Katy M said:But, do you think if she wasn't immediately able to find a job that gave her free room and board and let her keep her child with her while she worked, would she have gone back home, or raised Rory as homeless? Remember, she didn't even have a HS diploma.
We don't know how much money Lorelai had saved before she left or if she had a plan for finding a job. We don't know if the Independence Inn was the first place she went or the hundredth. We do know Rory was well taken care of and didn't want for much as she grew up in Stars Hollow, and that Lorelai got her GED, advanced in her job and completed a degree in business. That's good enough for me.
-
2
-
-
21 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:
Since Emily tends to do very hurtful things (see: Big Head Lorelai) I tend to assume Lorelai got a daily dose of "you screwed up".
Exactly. If Emily had been a source of comfort Lorelai would have wanted her there.
-
3
-
-
4 hours ago, glorie said:
It was more about Emily's fear for Lorelai's (and Rory's) safety. Emily is controlling by nature, but in that case she was scared to death for Lorelai. Can you imagine your 16- years old child going to labor alone?
Actually, my unpopular opinion on this subject is that Emily was mad about not being included, not scared for Lorelai. Lorelai got herself to the hospital and was being cared for by staff there; she wasn't alone. It was her choice to go alone and I really don't think Lorelai's choice to take a cab to the hospital when she went into labor put her or Rory in any danger. If my daughter went into labor and chose to not include me, I would respect that, in the same way I respected her wish to not have me present for medical examinations once she reached a certain age. I would try my best to be supportive and to make sure she had good medical care but understand that it is her choice who to have in the delivery room. Also, I don't see how yelling at your daughter as she's in pain with labor and being wheeled into the delivery room to have her first baby is in any way comparable to yelling at your daughter when she comes home after staying out all night.
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:
I agree that they both should have taken steps to end the dynamic.
Exactly. When a parent has that dynamic with their kid, who do you think perpetuated it in the first place? And who should take responsibility for ending it? Of course Lorelai didn't always treat her parents kindly or fairly. When you have a teenager that often comes with the territory.
-
2
-
-
6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:
I think Emily was upset because they only found out Lorelai was in labor because she left them a note (presumably so they would miss the entire thing) rather than calling them to let them know what was happening.
Okay. But still not seeing how this justifies screaming at your 16-year-old daughter who is about to give birth. I mean, come on. Lorelai and Emily's whole relationship consists of you did this to me so I'll do that to you. This is not a dynamic any adult should continue with a 16-year-old.
-
2
-
-
7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:
It was a big double edged sword for the show. To justify what Lorelai did (running away and keeping herself mostly cut off from her parents for years), I think you'd essentially have to have Emily and Richard be near monsters who were regularly abusing or otherwise terrorizing their daughter.
To me, yelling at your 16-year-old daughter as she's being wheeled into te delivery room makes you a bit of a monster. Not that I don't empathasize with Emily and Richard also, at times. I think that's a big part of what makes Lorelai's story feel true to life--no one is all right or all wrong no matter how much they imagine they are and no matter that they refuse to see their part in it. The idea that Lorelai would run away from her parents seems perfectly believable to me given the situation, her personalty, and their relationship.
-
4
-
-
22 minutes ago, JayInChicago said:
I could be wrong but what I've gathered from reading this board and others is that ASP made casting choices based on how much she liked the actor.
By necessity casting choices also have to made based on actor availability/willingness to commit to a certain number of episodes. In fact I remember Amy saying how much they loved working with Wayne Wilcox but as he lived in NY and was often on Broadway he wasn't always available to do the show.
-
3
-
-
-
11 minutes ago, clack said:
I could see Lane having a fulfilling career while remaining in Stars Hollow by, say, running a small independent mom-and-pop record label with Zach. I just wish ASP had shown more imagination in depicting Lane's future. Having her work in her mother's antique shop seems like a lazy plot solution.
I like that idea, but don't have a problem accepting that Lane and Zach stayed where they were because it was a good school district, Mrs. Kim was nearby to help with the kids, and they were comfortable financially living mainly off of Zach's salary. By working for her mom Lane had a lot of flexibility and could easily be there for her kids when needed. I think it's nice when women have the freedom to make a career choice that's best for their family and not necessarily just for them. I also would have enjoyed some introspection from Lane but understand they had limited time and needed to concentrate more on Rory.
-
1
-
-
23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:
Out of all the stories from season 7 that ASP chose to ignore, she chose not to ignore the Lane having kids one? I mean, don't get me wrong, I would have been pissed if she had decided to erase her kids out of existence, but she could have at least explained it away by stating that season 7 was simply not canon in this revival. Instead of playing "what stories shall I keep from season 7 and which ones will I pretend never happened"; throwing away the good stories (Logan's character development, for example) and making fun of some of the season 7 choices (Christopher/Lorelai's short lived marriage) while keeping the ones that probably could have just not been mentioned (Lane and Zach's kids; they really could have not cast her kids, kept them off screen, and we could have pretended that she either had them with Mrs. Kim or pretended they never existed, like all the other season 7 plots in the revival).
Someone told me once the only two things you can't undo in your life are having a baby and dying. Lane and Zach's kids existed and Amy couldn't just pretend they didn't, and she tried to stay true to their character and make them the way she saw them as parents. In my opinion, she didn't undo any story lines from season 7 or anyone's character growth; she just used the years in between to have them in a different place. People change. I agree that in some cases it would have been nice to have more explanation but for me it worked just fine as it was. I thought the scenes Rory and Lane had together in the revival were really nice, especially where Rory was venting about Lorelai's reaction to her book idea and kept accidentally calling Logan. And I loved seeing Lane's kids, especially when they tried on Rory's clothes.
-
1
-
-
16 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:
I guess my true ending for Lane would have been her truly finding herself outside of Stars Hollow. She got trapped in the town so I feel like she got stuck. ASP may have had her be happy with her life in the small town, but I never truly thought it was a good ending for Lane.
It sounded like Amy wanted a better revival story for Lane that she wasn't able to write for her because she couldn't make Lane and Zach bad parents.
All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love
in Gilmore Girls
I guess I'd rather see any writer write what feels true to them and to their characters and to their story and not even think about cliches. And I think Amy tries to do that despite all of the criticisms viewers have. Good thing she doesn't read anything written about her shows online.
I got much more out of Luke's "No one will ever be more here for you than I am. I will never leave, I will never think about leaving, I will do whatever it takes to fix what's wrong." I'd take that over all the I love you's in the world. Also, Lorelai's I love you during the ultimatum sounded to me much more like a demand than an expression of love. I'd have much rather seen her show her love for Luke in that scene by being honest with him about what was upsetting her and being open to working with him to find a way to move forward that worked for both of them.