[S03.E04: I Feel Sorry For Me]

I don't really get what makes Jeff tick. He gets shocked when people play by the rules he set. What?

 

I think he's being written as someone who does have a problem with women, which is why he's so upset when Rayna sees fit to play by "his" rules. And this is exactly why I don't want hate/sex between him and anyone else--he acts like it gives him power over them.

[Rayna Jaymes: The Reigning Queen of Country]

Yet she had some kind of harsh deep feeling against Jeff, which suggests that for her that it was more than about business.

 

Jeff signed Will to Edgehill soon after the initial meeting where Rayna brought her H65 artists to meet the new head of the label.   Pretty underhanded business, if you ask me.  He could have just supported Highway 65 as a label under Edgehill and they all could have profited.  Then if that wasn't enough Jeff made it personal by trying to force Rayna to release an album to take advantage public sympathy after her accident and coming up with that awful album cover.

[S03.E04: I Feel Sorry For Me]

But while I agree he had every right to be there for an old friend who was going through a crisis, he went about it in a way that was not at all sensitive to his girlfriend's feelings. I'm not sure what you mean about Juliette's insistence re: working on Scarlett's album.

I agree, except that their relationship was good right up until Scarlett asked Avery to work on her album.  Avery told Juliette he wouldn't do it if she wasn't okay with it, but she didn't want to stop him from taking an opportunity he wanted.  The next thing you see is the three of them getting ready to leave on tour.  Rayna did want Scarlett to go on tour with Juliette but Scarlett wanted to finish the album and since it was emotional stuff she asked for Avery because she needed someone she trusted.  So taking them on tour solved Juliette's problem but created a situation where she was constantly feeling ignored by Avery who was working on the album with Scarlett and Scarlett wanting to finish the album without the stress of being on tour.  As far as the way Avery went about being there for Scarlett after her breakdown, he stayed with Scarlett while he felt she needed him and then took time to catch on his sleep before hashing it out with Juliette.  I don't think involving Juliette in helping Scarlett would have worked since Juliette was unable to focus on anyone's needs but her own.  Yes, Juliette felt ignored but Avery apologized and tried to tend to her feelings as soon as he could but it was already too late.  It seems to me Avery did all he could but it just wasn't enough for Juliette.

 

I'm not saying Avery is responsible for Juliette cheating, just that they both (and no one else) were responsible for the problems in their relationship up to that point. Juliette overreacted to the situation and basically sabotaged the relationship because she was afraid she was losing Avery, and that's on her.

I'm just saying I think Avery took as much precaution as he could avoid hurting Juliette and still got cheated on.  It takes a lot of work to be in a healthy relationship with Juliette and I wouldn't fault anyone in that situation for deciding they weren't up for it.  Of course the baby changes that somewhat.

[S03.E04: I Feel Sorry For Me]

Good episode.  But yeah, the car chase would have worked better for me if they'd hidden behind a building or something instead of Rayna laughingly almost being killed. 

 

It was pretty low of Avery to blame Scarlett for Juliette cheating on him. She had a nervous breakdown. It wasn't her responsibility in that moment to be worried about anything but her own health. Avery is the one that chose to be at her bedside 24/7 knowing full well his girlfriend was insecure and had trust issues, and he didn't expend much effort to talk to Juliette about it or involve her in helping Scarlett any way, even when it became clear she was uncomfortable with the situation. Avery and Juliette are responsible for what went wrong in their relationship, and no one else.

 

I agree with this completely but see Avery's part a little differently.  I think he had a right to be there for Scarlett if he wanted without being held responsible for Juliette's cheating.  Sure, he knew she was broken and insecure but I don't think he realized to what extent.  I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who betrayed him over, what less than 48 hours of not putting her needs a first?  That could get old very fast.  In my opinion Avery did nothing that could be construed as cheating, emotionally or otherwise; he was just trying to be there for his old friend as best he could.  I would understand Juliette confronting him about what she overheard, starting a big fight etc. but she didn't even give him a chance to explain and try to make it up to her. And if we start throwing blame around, how about remembering that Scarlett wouldn't have even been on that tour until Juliette insisted they had to be close to her to work on Scarlett's album together?

 

I think Zoey asking Scarlett to sing with her was sweet but also stupid to assume she was ready to hop back on stage without a moment's notice. It would be great to see Scarlett join Gunnar and Avery in the band--they might sound pretty terrific, though Scarlett and Avery didn't blend very well (but SAG is not a good band name!).

 

On Jeff trying to sign Rayna's kids with just Teddy's permission--I don't think Teddy would but wonder if Jeff might try to trick him by saying it was just for one performance or something.  

 

I like Sadie, for now.  Not sure about Pam, but I'm glad Deacon's having fun.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

Not true. Rayna just inherited a crap ton of money from her father and was picking out new office space. She's not on the road to any financial disaster. There are also other ways to garner publicity for an album than than the Fame Whore Tour.

Well I think a new label needs a lot more than just money or it's going to fizzle out.  And I don't see how Rayna picking out office space proves she doesn't have any money troubles.  I don't recall if it was said she's received her inheritance yet or not.  Sure, there are other ways to get publicity, but when the guy you're dating who's more famous than you proposes right when your album needs a boost to help launch a new label it would be awfully tempting.  Rayna does seem to have feelings for Luke and since he's in the music business I can see how she might see him as a nice mix of Teddy and Deacon. 

 

I think I have a different take/feeling about Luke than most. I don't think he's evil, abusive, or even manipulative ... I think he's flat out scared. He's wanted Rayna forever and now she's finally with him and says she's in love with him, and he wants to believe it but probably deep down knows she'll never love him as much as she loves Deacon. He's lying to himself, thinking that pressuring her into a quick marriage will somehow make it true that she really does love him most and it will all work out.

I think you've got something here.  Although I also think that despite being more famous, Luke knows he only has a small portion of the talent of both Deacon and Rayna.

 

Teddy has aleays been there being her dad, and I think the way she has kicked him to the curb for her shiny new daddy toy is appalling.

I agree with this too, although Maddie's behavior doesn't really surprise me given  most teenagers have a tendency to take their parents for granted.  It is appalling, unfair and hurtful behavior but it happens quite a bit.  I wish Deacon had spoken up for Teddy when Maddie complained about him, but given their some of their past history I can understand why he wouldn't.

 

 

Yet when Ruke (puke) breaks up, there inevitably will be a Team Luke/Team Rayna mentality.  Both their fan bases will take a hit.  Such a public romance might be good for record/ticket sales, but there is the danger of a backlash too if it doesn't work out.

For sure.  I'm afraid Rayna will take the hit while Luke comes out smelling like a rose, but that may be just what she needs to start focusing on what's most important to her again.  Though it may turn the Honeymoon Tour into a huge fiasco.  I don't blame Rayna too much--she's had a rough year herself.  Yes, I know she's the parent and needs to be looking out better for her kids but parents are only human too.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

If I had a kid who was as miserable as Maddie is about this union, I would slow my roll to a crawl and figure out WHY.

 

Letting your kids have a say in who you marry and taking their feelings into consideration as you make life changes are two separate things.  Since Rayna has neither married Luke nor been away from her kids for a year yet, I hold out faith that she (and the writers) will do the right thing when the time comes.  Still, judging from Maddie's outburst a lot of her "misery" comes from her desire for her mom and Deacon to be together.  She may need learn that her parents can't and shouldn't live their lives according to her wishes.

 

Luke's reaction to the ways in which Rayna tries to care for her children should be telling.  His disregard of her kids' reactions, how it affected Rayna, and her concern about the wedding date should be a red flag (as Peggy's refusal to move back the wedding date should have been for Teddy).  Time will tell.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

That's not what I meant. I meant that this story isn't all about making Rayna happy. Deacon has an obligation to Maddie. (So does Rayna, but she's mostly crap at it right now.) His focus isn't just on making Rayna happy; he told Maddie about the proposal because he felt he owed it to his kid to let her know that he did the best he could to get her what she (and he) wanted. And I suspect he also wanted Maddie to know he tried so that she'd trust him going forward. If Maddie knows Deacon is on her side, even if he failed, she's more likely to trust him. The fact that Deacon telling Maddie made things hard for Rayna is unfortunate, but this isn't all about Rayna. There are other people involved who need and want different things than she does, and they are just as valid.

 

And herein lies the problem.  Kids shouldn't have a say in who their parent(s) marry period.  They shouldn't know who proposed and who turned who down and they shouldn't be on anyone's side.  This is giving them a say.  It's not about Rayna or things being hard for her.  It is about each person/parent's right to make the best decision for themselves without their children weighing in and being for or against their choice.  Whether he meant to or not, Deacon is using the fact that Maddie wants what he wants in his favor.  Maddie shouldn't love or trust any of her parents based on who they want or don't want to marry, but because of who they are and how they treat her.

 

And I do think that if you remarry, you have a responsibility to choose a partner that meshes with the children you already have. They have no say or choice in the life you force them to live because of what you drag them into, and that is completely unfair. Yes, they're kids and young and have no real rights, but that doesn't mean they lack importance or the right to agency. I'm not of the mindset that children are simply to follow and obey.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this and have lived my own life this way.  But it's still up to the parent to make that final choice about their own life partner; it has to be.  You can't be a good parent being married to someone you've decided is wrong for you whether it's staying married to your child's father or marrying your ex.  At this point there's no obvious and telling reason why Luke couldn't "mesh" with Maddie and Daphne.  It seems to be more about the fact that Maddie just doesn't like him, probably mainly because he's not Deacon.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

For me, what someone does is a lot more telling than what he or she says.

 

I mean, what do you think? Does Rayna's behavior tell you she's over Deacon and completely in love with and committed to Luke Wheeler?

I think Rayna is trying her hardest right now to be in love and committed to Luke.  I think the fact that two people have sexual chemistry doesn’t mean they should be together.  Sure, what people do can be telling but that doesn’t mean you can make assumptions and totally ignore what they say either.  We are all sometimes very good at seeing what we want to see in others' behavior and misinterpreting their feelings.  I think Rayna’s doing the best she can even though it’s likely not going to work out in the end.  I think the writers are doing a good enough job overall for me to continue watching and see how the stories play out. 

 

I think Rayna's primary obligation is to her children, not Luke or Deacon.

Of course it is, but her obligation to her children is different than one to a fiancée and wouldn’t require telling them about a proposal she received.

 

And staying out of the guys' contentious relationship does nothing but create tension and confusion. Just like with Teddy and Deacon, it's Rayna's responsibility to build the bridge.

The big difference is that Teddy and Deacon only have a relationship because of Rayna; Luke and Deacon have known each other for years.  I can’t remember if Deacon knew Luke and Rayna were together when he signed on with his tour but Deacon was with Megan.  During the proposal episode Deacon and Luke treated each other respectfully in front of Rayna and she hasn’t been around for their interactions since then.  If she sees a problem, I’m sure she’ll do her best to handle it.   

 

I'm not sure Rayna should have told Luke about the proposal because she didn't actually tell him the whole truth. She left out what she did (convenient) and gave the impression that Deacon was pushing himself on poor, unsuspecting Rayna. She's stringing both of these men along with half-truths. That's OK for the sake of drama in small doses, but it's not the behavior of a heroic, well adjusted person.

True, but heroic, well-adjusted characters aren’t nearly as much fun to watch!  I actually prefer watching imperfect characters on TV, makes them much more relatable.  Deacon did push himself on her in the sense he went to her that night without invitation and took her in his arms as she put her hands up to deflect him.  When Rayna told Luke he actually asked how she felt and said to let him know when she decided.  I don't see any stringing along or half truths in her behavior with either man.

 

Deacon wanted Maddie to know he'd fought for their preferred solution; he's her dad, on some level it's his job to fight for what she needs and wants. I don't think that makes him a bad guy, even if poor Rayna gets her feelings hurt a little or has to cope with an angry, upset daughter as a result. This isn't all about making Rayna happy, though I realize that's kind of the message the show is sending us at the moment.

Well, I actually think when it comes to choosing a spouse it is all about making that person happy (e.g. Rayna needs to choose a spouse in terms of what will make her happy, not Maddie or Deacon or anyone else).  It has to be; Rayna’s vowing to live with this person for the rest of her life, not just until Maddie and Daphne grow up.  Are you saying in his quest to give his daughter “what she needs and wants” Deacon has no choice but to propose to her mother?  Or that Rayna and Teddy should have stayed together if that was what their daughters needed and wanted?  Because I’m having trouble seeing where you would draw that line.  When a parent gets married they have an obligation to provide a happy, comfortable and safe home environment for their children.  But you don’t give your children a say in who your life partner is anymore than they’re obligated to give you one once they turn 18. 

 

Here's hoping, though Rayna seemed to dig it.

Being up on stage in front of how many thousands of people, Rayna would almost have to look like she’s digging it.  Though I’m sure the fact that their relationship is in that lovey-dovey we’re-getting-married phase played into her feelings as well.  Here’s hoping she will figure it out sooner rather than later.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

Because of how Rayna behaves. We all know what Rayna wants because of that.

 

You mean he thinks he knows what she wants because of his perception of her behavior?  And we think we know based our perception of how she acts as well.  That doesn't make it a fact.

 

he went to her privately, told her how he felt, pushed a little, and bam, Rayna dissolved into a blubbering, kissing mess.

 

He walked into her house and started talking to her about things she clearly did not want to discuss with him.  She did say no several times before she gave up.  Deacon was not only determined to have his say but was also determined to get an emotional reaction from Rayna.  It was impulsive, immature and unfair and in the long run only hurt both of them.  Since Deacon's often been shown as impulsive and emotional where Rayna's concerned, I wouldn't blame it on the writers. Rayna's relationship with Deacon was in the past and she wasn't obligated to prove to him or anyone else that she really wanted to marry Luke. In fact, he didn't even respect her and/or her relationship with Luke enough to ask her how she felt.

 

it shows a really immature understanding of what you need to do to make a relationship work.

 

See, I think this is Deacon's main drawback for now--he has no idea how to make a relationship work in the long-term because he's never done it before.  This colors a lot of his behavior with both Rayna and Maddie.  E.g. he hasn't been a dad long enough to see how certain things you do or say with your kids pop up later, in both good and bad ways.

 

 

Deacon didn't intentionally hurt Rayna by telling Maddie about the proposal, though he did hurt her unintentionally. But Rayna is hurting Deacon on purpose to make her point. That's worse.

 

I don't think it's quite that cut and dried.  Rayna told Luke about Deacon's proposal because she felt more of an obligation to the man who's proposal she just accepted, as she should.  I think whether or not she told him was completely up to her and respect the fact that she didn't want a lie between them.  Luke and Deacon's business relationship is between them and doesn't have anything to do with Rayna; I think she's wise to stay out of it.

 

And Deacon's revelation was defensible, if not wise. I can totally buy the idea that his daughter, at this moment in her life, needed to know that her bio dad was fighting for her. Regardless, he was within his rights and within the boundaries of sound judgement

 

Deacon was fighting for Rayna, not Maddie.  All of the relationships Maddie's parents have with each other are separate from her relationship with each of them and she shouldn't be given any say in their relationships with each other.  Deacon stepped over a boundary in that conversation both by allowing Maddie to tell him he's pathetic for not trying harder and for telling her about the proposal, one that will eventually cause him trouble with Maddie as well as Rayna and Luke.

 

The song Luke wrote for Rayna was truly awful, and makes me think their musical differences will play a central role in the disintegration of their relationship.

[S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life]

I love Deacon also, but have to say he's brought on all of these problems by proposing to Rayna after she accepted Luke's proposal.  What did he think was going to happen?  Rayna's being criticized for not being sensitive to his feelings, but did he do that for her?  They had both agreed they needed to move on and were doing that in relationships with other people.  Nothing happened to change that, and there was nothing to indicate Rayna thought it should change.  Sure, they had a couple of nice conversations about their daughter and about their past but that was as far as it went. The fact that she still has feelings for Deacon doesn't mean she shouldn't be moving on with someone else, if that's what she wants.  I hated the public proposal and agree that Rayna could have handled her engagement better with her kids.  But Maddie was way out of line when she called Deacon pathetic for not trying harder, and he should have called her on that instead of telling her he proposed.  As a newer dad, he doesn't want to get on her bad side but he didn't do either of them any favors in that conversation.  Even though I know this probably isn't what Rayna really wants and things will likely change, I still defend her right to make her own decision, without flack from exes and/or daughters.  In my opinion she hasn't done anything for which she needs to apologize or redeem herself.  And as far as not getting Luke to let Deacon off of the tour, isn't it possible as far as Rayna knows that's Deacon's choice?  I mean, why would Luke tell her that?

 

On another note, I really love the look of horror on Sadie's face when Jeff's implying her career is up and coming while Rayna's over the hill.  I have a feeling his particular type of charm is wearing a little thin on her.

 

See...I think Deacon tries to talk her into doing the things he knows she she really wants, and that's borne from their having such an intimate relationship for so long. If Rayna really wanted Deacon to back off, if she really loved Luke only and was thrilled to be his wife, all she'd have to do is tell Deacon, "I am not in love with you anymore. I don't feel it, and I don't want it." And then she could MOVE AWAY FROM HIM when he touches her. She doesn't do any of that, though, so we (and he) know she's lying.

 

But how can Deacon be so sure he still knows what she really wants?  Their relationship is in the past, a fact Rayna reminded him of when he came to her when Lamar died.  All of the things she found out right before his death can't help but have long-lasting, if not lifelong, effects on Rayna.  So what Deacon's really doing is trying to talk her into doing the things he thinks she still wants.  As much as I loved seeing Deacon propose, it was every bit as manipulative as what Luke did.  Compare it to when Rayna went to Deacon in season 1--she knocked and didn't walk in uninvited, asked if he was alone, told him her feelings but didn't tell him how he felt, and didn't touch or kiss him until he approached her.  Not to mention she was motivated by his admission that he couldn't move on from her vs. his motivation of her acceptance of Luke's proposal.

 

Edited again to add I really do think Rayna and Deacon will eventually work things out and be back together.  I don't see their relationship as toxic but I do think it needs to go through a metamorphosis from the intensity and desperation their feelings caused both of them when they were together in s1.  I think that's what Rayna's trying to move away from, a relationship that unsettles her to the degree that she would cause an accident that hurt them both so badly, or one like her parents had where he chased her down in the car because he couldn't bear for her to leave.  Highly intense, romantic relationships bring out the warm, fuzzy feelings but aren't all they're cracked up to be. Rayna and Deacon both just need to discover they can live happy, healthy lives apart but make the choice to be together because they enjoy life more that way. And then they can write a song about it.

[S04.E10: Return To Hell]

Louise has been shown to be a reporter first.  My guess is it isn't about the sex at all but to get close to Campbell in order to  expose whatever he's up to that he shouldn't be and get him out of there.

 

Either way, I wonder if the Swede isn't going to try to kill Brigham Young and assume his identity.

 

Interesting, although he was also plotting to be back around Cullen.  I'm sad about Ezra but hopeful that the Swede can be set up and taken down  in some other very satisfying way.

[S03.E02: How Far Down Can I Go]

I think we'd all be surprised at the level of understanding teenagers have about what things mean.

 

See, I think it's just the opposite, and not just for teenagers, I don't think anyone has real understanding of many life situations until they've actually been through something similar.  It's why we have support groups.  The younger you are, the less likely you have life experience that's taught you the difference, and the more likely you feel entitled to pass judgment in situations where you have no real understanding.  Sure, Maddie has a good understanding of some of the facts but still has no clue how it must have felt to Rayna.  Even Deacon experienced those years differently, as the alcoholic rather than the person closest to him, and would have a different perspective. 

 

But it was not right of him to tell Maddie that he proposed and that Rayna rejected him.  He inadvertently painted  himself the victim of Rayna's rejection instead of merely a party to a long, complicated, and emotional situation.  I don't think it was intentional, but I don't think it was entirely inadvertent either.  He is feeling the victim of rejection at the moment which bled into his phrasing.

 

Very insightful and well said.  To his credit, I think Deacon did realize after that he shouldn't have told her that but I have a feeling  Maddie is still going to let everyone know exactly how she feels about it.

 

What he needed to do was calmly say something like, "Honey, your mom knows exactly how I feel about her. It's her choice to make and we both need to respect it. You don't have to like it, but you have to respect it and find a way to live with it." Or something.

 

This would have been perfect, I think, or anything reassuring her that he did his best without spilling about the proposal.  I'm willing to give him somewhat of a pass on it too--he looked so lost sitting on the floor that morning but somehow still managed to pull himself together enough to not lose his patience with Maddie until then.

 

when the woman who has money to burn and formed her own label for artistic integrity is willing to do anything to get the #1 album

 

The way I understand it is the success of the label is riding solely on Rayna's album right now.  Sure, things may be better when the inheritance goes through but she has to make it that far without losing the house her kids live in.

[Nashville Spoilers and Speculation]

Kids aren't stupid. By the time they're eight, ten, certainly fifteen, they know what's going on

 

No, kids aren't stupid, just young.  They don't have the adult experiences necessary to understand why someone would do certain things under certain circumstances.  At fifteen, there's no way Maddie has the life experience to even begin to understand what Rayna went through with Deacon to justify turning down his proposal.  And in my opinion she doesn't need to know all of that; the past would just be in the way of Maddie getting to know Deacon as he is now.  Rayna, on the other hand, has a right and obligation to make her decision based on both her past and present experiences with Deacon.

[Nashville Spoilers and Speculation]

Shron: If Maddie and Daphne had specifically asked Rayna, yes, she should have told them the truth about the money.

 

But Rayna wouldn't have told her daughters that, not to protect Teddy but to protect them and their relationship with him.  Do you really think they would be happier knowing that?  As long as it was only between Teddy and Rayna and he wasn't arrested, Teddy shouldn't have to explain to his children the reasons he did what he did any more than Rayna owes Maddie an explanation of why she didn't accept Deacon's proposal.

 

Maddie has right to know that her father has changed and this time did do everything he could to right things.

 

I agree she deseves to know Deacon did everything he could, but telling her only that is not lying.  Knowing Rayna turned down Deacon's proposal only has the power to hurt Maddie.  The fact that Rayna has made mistakes doesn't prove she's a liar and doesn't love Maddie, anymore than Deacon proposing proves once and for all that he's changed.

[Nashville Spoilers and Speculation]

I disagree.  It was wrong and even Deacon realized that later.  It was wrong in the same way it's wrong for divorcing parents to give their children details (yes, even the facts!) about why they're splitting up.  Should Rayna have told Maddie and Daphne she only seriously considered splitting up with Teddy when she found he'd embezzled $3 million?  Kids naturally want their parents together whether they've been married or not and even though it wasn't his intent Deacon was using Maddie's natural allegiance to that idea.  Of course it's not Deacon's responsibility to make sure Luke isn't insecure, and I didn't say or imply that.  Although you know Luke's going to see it as Deacon trying to sabotage their relationship and use it against him.  But I do think it's every parent's responsibility to protect their child's relationships with their other parents.  He should have told Maddie he tried as hard as he could but it didn't work out and asked her to trust him on that.  Sure, it's great he can talk to her like a "normal" person and tell her things, but facts that are tangled up in past events/relationships that she has incomplete knowledge of should be off-limits.

 

If they go that route, I'm done.

 

I agree I wouldn't want to see a late miscarriage, but I doubt they'd do that.  I have wondered if given Juliette's own childhood she would consider adoption, which could be an interesting twist if done well.

[Nashville Spoilers and Speculation]

Deacon has no responsibility to run every conversation by Rayna and Teddy. I agree. Maddie's his kid and he can talk to her as he sees fit.

 

While I understand how Deacon let it slip out that he proposed and Rayna turned him down, telling Maddie that is a big parenting no-no.  You don't tell your kid things that are none of their business and that they can use against the other parent.  Sure, he was being honest but Maddie is now set up to pass judgment on things that she doesn't have the knowledge, experience or maturity to understand.  Teddy and Rayna have always done a good job of keeping the kids out of their issues.  I'm glad Deacon acknowledged that he shouldn't have told her and hope he's the one who tells Rayna rather than Maddie.  Unfortunately in this situation it also makes Deacon look like he's using Maddie to sabotage Luke and Rayna's relationship as well as her relationship with her mom.