[S02.E08: 208]

I gotta say, I love this show--so much to analyze!  Just watched it again while paying my bills and I saw stuff I hadn't noticed before.

 

In Helen's POV, Eden refers to her as Noah's wife while looking at the calendar on her phone, even though Helen had just referred to herself as his ex-wife. Combine this with Alison's Thanksgiving POV in which Eden was rude to her, and I think we may have a real picture of what Eden thinks of Noah leaving Helen for Alison.

 

In Noah's POV, he asks Helen if she liked the book.  We get so many jerk moments from Noah in his own POVs--I thought this was a nice, vulnerable moment. Also, Helen is the only one who laughs at him without him getting pissed off.  I think that more than his actual marriage, Noah's biggest loss due to his affair is the loss of his best friend.  Max is there, but Helen knows him better and plays the role of his conscience.  His entire recollection of the restaurant scene could almost be an inner monologue, with Helen as his conscience. 

 

Alison was looking very blonde in the Skype session.  Is this symbolic of the lighter Alison due to letting go of the darkness and enjoying her pregnancy or just poor color fidelity of the video?  IIRC in the "future" she is back to her dark hair.  

[S02.E08: 208]

Forgot to mention in earlier posts...In Helen's POV, I interpreted Noah's reading of that particular passage to be almost an apology to Helen. He had seen her before the reading started and selected a passage that 1) described that he had been in love with her and their entire life together was not a sham, and 2) it had been a difficult process to leave her (all the 5,4,3,2,1 step references). In Noah's POV, the choice of that passage was more accidental, though he did avoid the sex scene that might upset her--or was it more for his comfort?

I wonder how much of Helen's POV is colored by a desire for her not to have been wrong (and her parents being right) about loving and marrying Noah from the start. If she sees him completely as a jerk, then she has to blame herself for not seeing that from the start. If he is somewhat thoughtful of her (even in small ways), than it was circumstances and not bad judgment that led her to her current situation.

[S02.E08: 208]

I'm really starting to think that something is wrong with Helen in the present day scenes.  I thought Whitney's comment about how Helen only has 5-6 good years left was possible foreshadowing, and Helen looked awfully pale and drawn, especially at the gym.  If she's sick/dying that would explain her desperate need to get Noah off at any cost, even by alienating him with the whole baby DNA swipe.  I assumed that's why she was so upset when she handed over the pacifier; she knows that she will lose Noah forever, even as a friend, through that act but she's desperate.

 

I hadn't thought of that.  If she's sick, that would definitely explain things.  I hope she doesn't end up sacrificing herself on the grounds that she will be dead soon anyway.

 

Of course Whitney wants to be a model. The girl is nothing but bone; the times Ive seen her in summer clothes . In the previous season, was there any hints that she had a eating disorder?

 

They thought she was bulimic because she was vomiting, and they confronted her, but she was actually pregnant.

 

 You know, you're right about this. I said something upthread about Helen seeing the best in Noah as indicative of real love, but I didn't mean to imply that I hope Helen's story arc involves pining away or that they are back together in the present. Helen's scenes with Noah were very well done - we've probably all been in that sweet, sad, nostalgic place with an ex - but it did seem a little bit early for that acceptance and level of comfort to set in. And it's not really a natural progression from where she was in the last episode. Let's put this acrimony behind us for the kids and our own sanity doesn't equal let's be good, supportive friends. Or it shouldn't yet; she's still in so much pain. The gut-punch scene for me was when Noah pointed from himself to her, and she initially seemed to think it was a "you and me" gesture...but he just wanted his hat back.

 

Noah's POV was very much in character. Self-loathing, insensitive, unable to empathize. Helen was strong and doing just fine. Why shouldn't she be happy for his success? Why wouldn't she like to hear him read a passage at his book reading about the day he left her? 

 

I don't think Helen has truly accepted it, but she's putting on a brave face.  She's resentful of how much Whitney adores her dad, despite the damage he's caused, and she was annoyed that he hadn't bothered to check on the college tour schedule.  She didn't want to go to the reading, but her curiosity got the most of her.  (I doubt she's read the whole book.)  Once she heard Noah reading, it put her in a sentimental place for the rest of the evening.  I bet his writing was one of things that attracted her to him in the first place.  That, coupled with being at the place where they met and fell in love, caused her to be more accepting--for the evening.  It remains to be seen how she will act during their next meeting.

 

That hat exchange was so sad.  I also thought her was gesturing to the two of them.  

 

I think Whitney would really benefit from the reality check of working as a model.  1) She was offended by the poster in the dorm room?  Well, honey, try POSING for that poster!  2) He family has indulged her in so many ways.  As a model, she will be ordered around and if she pitches a fit and doesn't do what she's asked, they will simply replace her with another beautiful woman. 

[S02.E08: 208]

Last week I was ready to sign off on this show, but I this ep pulled me all the way back into it.  And it was nice to be able to laugh for a change - Maura Tierney was fabulous, and I loved that scene in the bar although I don't have a clue what the 25 yr. old argument Helen and Noah talked about was about. 

. 

Cardigirl, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you didn't like stealing the pacifer to get the baby's DNA because I burst out laughing when she handed it over to Gottlief.  Did I miss (which is entirely likely) something incriminating? 

 

I believe he was convincing Helen to have an abortion. She defended him "We were only 19..." and he mentioned regret after seeing how beautiful the other 4 are.

 

I actually thought he had been pressuring her to have sex and that she defended him by saying they were 19 (i.e., adults) and it was reasonable for him to expect it.  Your explanation makes more sense though, given that she was "wild" and probably sexually active.

[S02.E08: 208]

Crunch, crunch, munch, munch -- er, what's that sound I hear?  Posters from the thread on the last ep eating their words -- the ones who said with such assurance, insistence & certainty that Noah would never ever ever ever hook up with Eden, cuz she's just not his type at all.  Yeah, right.  To those who said that (and you know who you are), Treem probably hopes you enjoy eating your words.

 

Interesting that Whitney isn't mentioned AT ALL in Noah's POV.  Especially interesting given what she said to Cole at the end of the last ep.

 

I will fully admit that I was one of those people who didn't think Noah would sleep with Eden...and that I was wrong.  I will say that while watching it unfold, I fully expected it to be some sort of drunken fantasy of Noah's not something that was actually happening. However, there is no indication that it was fantasy, so he must have actually pulled that stupid move.  I also expected him to start writing after than encounter, but that didn't happen either.

 

I thought the same thing about Whitney not being in Noah's POV.  I didn't record the episode so I cannot check the chronology, but was it because he started his narrative after Whitney had gone off with Christie?  Or was Whitney right in the last episode and she simply doesn't matter that much to him?  

 

How can Noah continually come off as a giant asshole in his own POV?  He was a boorish, drunken narcissist trying to punch out a 21 year old critic.  Then to top it off he tried to screw Eden.  Yes, he really is so in love with Allison.

 

Helen's POV made Noah out to be such a wonderfully thoughtful human being.  How she can have such positive feelings about him after the way he betrayed her I'll never know.  I guess it shows that she really does still love him, there is no other explanation.

 

Helen voiced what I said in a previous episode thread--Noah really seems to hate himself.  I think that's why he always looks so bad in his own POVs.  I hope we get to understand why he dislikes himself so much.  It's interesting that Noah remembers that it is Helen who prevents him from acting on the phone number the student gave him.  She didn't even remember him getting the number, and it would be in her interest to think of him as a jerk who's cheating on his pregnant fiancee.

 

I really liked this episode.  It was the first one to make me tear up-starting from when he read from his book in Helen's POV.  I actually thought the passage was very good.  I don't know how it compares to other literature, but I found it really moving.  The relationship between Noah and Helen is fascinating.  I doubt that they will get back together, but there seems to be real affection there.  They seemed to both be very honest with each other, in both POVs--though Helen's was unsurprisingly more tender.  They know each other so well and they genuinely care about each other.  It kinda makes me wonder if Helen is guilty of Scott's death.  I can see Noah taking the heat for Helen after this episode.  Whitney is still the most likely suspect, but I can also see Noah making a sacrifice for Helen.

 

BTW, why did Whitney object to Max being called Uncle Max?  Presumably Helen's called him that since Whitney was a baby.  Does Whitney know about Helen's fling?  Please don't tell me it's possible that he made a move on Whitney!  

 

Also, why was Whitney talking about moving to NY?  Do they not already live there?  Or is it that in NY'er speak, they refer to Manhattan as NY and the other boroughs by name?

 

And I laughed when Helen threw the boots at Whitney.  It reminded me of her throwing the apple at Trevor.  It also reminded me of her character in Welcome to Mooseport who who hit her boyfriend (Ray Romano) without knowing her own strength.  Ray reacted the same way as Whitney. Made me laugh.

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

Except she had no idea Bryan was dead at that point.

 

She was free from the time he left her for good, though she went through a bit of a transition in which she was in a daze.  She didn't need to know he was dead to start asserting herself.  That's why I don't believe he needed to die for her sake.

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

I've never seen White Fang, but Brian's demanor changed when Claire said that she needed him to see the performance so her new life in NYC can feel real. He didn't want her to be emotionally independent, so he did a 180 and decided to bail so Claire would remain stuck in their dysfunction, hence he's a monster. Lashing out about their baby, etc. was her monsterous way of striking back.

 

I actually got the opposite impression.  I thought that Bryan saw that Claire believed her happiness being dependent on him being there.  He realized that he had to be completely out of the picture for her to become independent, so he left.  I thought it was a selfless act, because while she could thrive and have a better life without him, he could never be happy without her.  She reacted in anger, calling him a monster, because she did not realize that he was leaving to help her.

 

I just finished watching this show...It was really dark and twisted, but I could not stop watching. Black Swan is one of my favorite movies, which drew me to this show. I hope there's a second season!! There was a lot left unresolved...like that last scene. I'm a little confused why Paul wasn't totally ecstatic at the end of the performance? I mean Claire (and the other performers) killed it, but he was like half-smiling and not really clapping that much. I mean I guess I could see that he was a little jealous of Claire...but idk. 

 

That ending made me feel like Paul was more of the "Dragon" than Bryan. He was so egotistical throughout the show and treated his dancers like trash. And the way he felt like he controlled Claire. I mean Bryan and Claire's relationship was twisted, but I was a little more sympathetic to Bryan. His father was terrible to him, even as a kid (that home video!?).

 

Thoughts anyone? 

 

I thought Paul was more jealous of Toni than of Claire.  It was in a dance choreographed by Toni, not Paul, in which Claire made her stunning debut.

 

Okaaay, so that happened. I called Romeo killing Bryan back a few episodes ago so that was no surprise to me, I still don't understand what he was talking about though. That whole store with the Velveteen Rabbit book & the dragon, no idea.

 

I'm glad we finally got lots of dancing, but I don't understand why they kept doing those really long shots, why wouldn't they keep the camera closer?

 

So it turns out that Bryan wasn't a pedo, he was wondering if any of those kids were his, that's sad. I can't decide whether he was a bad guy or not. Having sex with your sister is gross, but she was a completely willing participant, so I can't blame him for that. I guess we never find out why Claire is such a nutcase, in fact, I wonder if she wasn't the driving force behind their relationship.

 

My understanding: As Claire described the Velveteen Rabbit, the rabbit is worn out from all the love it received and is unsure it can ever be happy after it is brought to life.  Similarly, Claire is worn out from the love of Bryan (and I do think his love for her was genuine, if twisted) and is unsure that she can ever be happy in her real life.  Romeo's belief is that Bryan is a dragon that is guarding Claire as it's treasure and keeping her from freedom.  He feels like he has to slay the dragon to free her.  

 

Personally, I don't feel like Bryan deserved to die or that he even had to die for Claire to move on.  He was leaving of his own choice because he understood that was necessary for Claire to live.  As long as he was in the picture, she would keep turning to him.  However, since I think he would be unhappy without her, perhaps it's best for him that he died. Regardless, once she is free of Bryan, Claire is able to assert herself and say no to Paul.

 

I really enjoyed the dancing.  I like that they saved the full-body view of the dancing for the finale--it prevented us from getting bored by the moves.  I especially liked how Ross let loose towards the end.  Fantastic!

 

Regarding the glass in the shoe, I first thought some mean person in the corps put it there.  However, it could also have been lodged there when the light burst during the rehearsal.  Not sure.  When Claire put it in her mouth, I thought we might end up with Claire and Bryan dying at the same time but in different locations.  Glad that didn't happen.  

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

I think they do the "artsy" shots because while Sarah Hay may be a very good dancer, she probably isn't the absolutely incredible dancer that Claire is supposed to be.

 

Count me in as one of the people who didn't catch that Jessica embezzled the money & couldn't understand why they spent so much time on Jessica's life. I wish they had just figured out a way to let us know that she stole it without wasting all that not so interesting time on her.

 

I don't get why it's such a big deal that Claire had a kid, it's 2015, it's not uncommon, & I don't believe everyone knows her brother is the father unless she told them. Paul saying he would send her back to her small town didn't make any sense, he doesn't own her, she doesn't have to go back there.

 

I really don't understand what is wrong with Claire. Are they holding something back from us? Why is she such a nutcase? Yes, having a baby by your brother is bad, but that really doesn't explain why she's in such a state of crazy all the time, & what's the deal with the books?

 

1. Agreed.  Sarah Hay is a great dancer, but based on my admittedly little knowledge of dance, she doesn't seem to be quite as good as the character is meant to be.  I suspect that's why we get a lot of close-up shots.

 

2. I didn't pick up on the embezzlement either.  When Jessica got the check in the mail, I initially thought that the school returned the tuition and kicked her daughter out because she was a beeyotch to the headmistress.  Good thing I'm not a Russian mobster--I'd be rubbish at i!

 

3.  Probably no one else would care about Claire having had a baby, but it's a secret that she's tried to forget.  Having it revealed would be traumatic.  It would also hurt her image as the ingenue ballerina who became a star.  Paul's comment about her going back to Pittsburgh was just an expression, not literal.  

 

4.  I don't know if this is true in real life, but in fiction it is often the case that sibling incest ends up with one or both of the parties having serious psychological issues.  We also don't know what became of the baby.  If something bad happened to it, Claire could be holding on to a lot of guilt.  I did think it was interesting that the book on her chest when she was sleeping was Crime and Punishment.  BTW, I think the books on her body are some sort of alarm.  Her brother would have to remove them to have sex with her and she would wake up in the process and potentially stop him (if she wanted to do so).

 

 

 

While I buy that Paul called Claire's last company to ask why she left, I seriously doubt that HR would say, "By the way, there are rumors in our tiny town of Pittsburgh (population 2 million) that she was fucking her brother. But you didn't hear that from me!"

 

It would be one thing if Kiira came to her senses and decided not to dance in the A cast of Dakini because of her injury, but instead her decision was based on jealousy and insecurity. The way she cleaned out her dressing room made it seem like she isn't just skipping out on this particular show. It looked like she was planning to leave the company entirely which you kind of can't do after the season starts since you have a contract. I guess she can always use her injury as an excuse to retire, but you'd think that she would want one last glorious performance.

 

I don't get the back and forth with Claire and Bryan. He was so desperate to see her after he got discharged but now when Claire is calling him, he doesn't answer his phone and doesn't want to go to New York to see her? I thought for sure he was going to conveniently let his dad fall and hit his head while he was helping him out of the bathtub.

 

I'm just glad Claire only cut her hair. I was afraid she was going to cut herself again. Paul is going to have a shit fit when he sees her hair. Most ballet companies have a clause that says the dancers can't make significant changes to their appearance. I guess they can always give her a fall or a faux bun for performance.

1. She's from Polish Hill, which I assume is a small town suburb of Pittsburgh.  Likely, there are rumors there.  She carried the baby to term, so people would have known she was pregnant.  If she didn't have a boyfriend, and people noticed a closeness between the siblings, that could have led to rumors.
2. It does seem uncharacteristic of Kiira not to go out in a blaze of glory, but I assume that's why she wore her costume for the non-dress rehearsal.
3. I think that Bryan is genuinely trying to stay away from Claire after the NYC visit.  He didn't ask her to come for Tgiving, he didn't invite her into his bed, and he tried not answering her calls.  He is encouraging her to be independent.  He probably anticipated coming back to her from the war in some sort of romantic reunion. The NYC visit helped him realize that shouldn't happen and the Tgiving sex got the pent up lust out of his system.  He may end up being the one to help her escape her demons.
4. I really love her hair!  I hope she didn't cut it.  However, I would really enjoy the look on Paul's face when he sees it!  In addition to the excellent point mad by WatchrTina about the association between the pony tail and sex, it could also be symbolic of embracing Toni's modern approach vs. Paul's traditional approach.  

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

I wasn't surprised by the pregnancy because I anticipated that Claire's hiatus from dancing was either because of pregnancy or a suicide attempt.  I was surprised that she carried the baby to term--wouldn't that alter the shape of her body enough to affect her dancing?  (Not talking fat, but her pelvis/hips). 

 

The incest is creepy as all hell, but am I the only one who feels a little sorry for Bryan?  He has an apparently consensual and seemingly loving relationship with Claire, and then she won't even see him or tell him where she is.  Then she encourages guys to beat him bloody when he was trying to protect her from jerks in a strip joint.  Then she comes back and not only comes to his room to snuggle, but initiates the kiss that leads to sex.  From his perspective, he seems to genuinely feel affection for her (we saw the way he smiled when watching her sleeping in a previous episode), and she is giving him some serious mixed messages.  Plus, it didn't appear that they used protection when they had sex.  Have they learned nothing?  If there is another child, I will be seriously pissed off.  I also felt sorry for the verbal abuse he was taking from his father.  Some may say that it was justified by Bryan having sex with Claire, but I suspect the abuse predated the relationship.  Also, regardless of what Bryan did with Claire, I don't feel like the language their father uses is justified, given that Bryan is helping him go to the bathroom and taking care of him.  I am a little surprised by the state of the house, given Bryan's military training and the discipline that included.  (We saw him carefully line up his boots next to the couch when he stayed with Claire and Mia.)

 

I want to see Ross further fleshed out as a character.  I was horrified that he tried to seduce Paul to get his place back.  I actually thought that Paul was doing him a kindness by not taking advantage, but clearly Paul is not that kind.  I guess i was the only one amused by his comments about Trey.  Trey did essentially blackmail him--it was nice to get tricked right back.

 

I got the impression that Paul's Thanksgiving meltdown and "surprise" party was an annual occurrence.  That's why he's surprised that Claire isn't there and someone responded that she didn't know (the drill). Perhaps his previous partner died during the holiday season?

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

I have found that I enjoy Paul more when I view all of his dialogue as intentionally campy. His whole viagra on pointe shoes/engorge me speech is ridiculous if taken seriously but hilarious if taken as comedy.

 

I must be gullible as hell because at first I thought Trey was going to Paul to try to help Ross.

 

Nick Coleman can fuck right off. A girl is not crazy for making out with you and then deciding she doesn't want to have sex with you in a bathroom stall. I hate seeing guys who act like they're entitled to sex. Guess what, dude? She can tell you to stop at any time and that doesn't make her crazy.

 

When Cameron invited Claire to his work event and then Sergei wanted Daphne and Claire to perform for him on the same night, I was convinced that the two events would end up being the same and that no matter which one she decided to say yes to, she would end up being caught (either by Sergei finding out she was seeing a client outside the club or by Cameron finding out she was a ballerina). When she was taking publicity photos for the new ballet, I wondered how long before Cameron sees them and finds out her real name.

 

And Claire, come on. You had the bouncers beat the shit out of your brother after you told him to go away. Do not send him mixed messages by calling him. I know this is more complicated than a regular breakup but dude, you told him to leave you alone and he's probably pretty mad at you so DO NOT ENGAGE.

 

1. I think that Paul is deliberately playing up the drama queen persona and means for a lot of his lines to be funny--except when he actually loses his temper.
2. You are not alone.  I thought that Trey was going to threaten Paul to stay away from Ross, but not necessarily give up the role he now has. I guess I am too optimistic for this dark series!
3. I disagree regarding Nick Coleman.  I think it's perfectly natural for him to be taken aback and pissed when Mia did a complete 180 on him.  He didn't know that she had been assaulted, and she was the one who initiated the conversation and she seemed quite eager to have sex. She willingly goes with him into a bathroom stall and they continue to advance towards sex.  All of a sudden, she screams stop and looks at him like he's a villain.  I think his reaction was normal, and note that he didn't try to persuade her to continue or coerce her in any way. He didn't act entitled IMO, but rather, like he was shocked by her change in attitude.  The only way I would fault him is for not asking her if anything was wrong--and I'm not sure it's reasonable to blame him for that.
4. I also thought that Cameron would be on the yacht.  Glad he wasn't, because he can still be a decent guy,not a creepy pedophile.
5. I get that Claire probably loves Bryan on some level--he is her brother--but I agree that she cannot encourage people to beat him up one day and then be all worried about him the next.  

 

I both hope and am terrified that we may find out what happened to the young girl on the yacht to begged Claire for help.  That's not going to end well.  And I'm annoyed that Daphne, whom I liked for being fairly down to earth and friendly to Claire, seems so casual about underage sex trafficking. 

 

I'm curious about the titles of the episodes.  They all seem to be military terms, so are the titles from Bryan's perspective, or is it simply a comparison of the ballet world to war?  In this case, it was M.I.A., which is a play on the name Mia and her food poisoning causing her to be absent.  Bryan was also missing from this episode, so it could have been meant to apply to him,

[Flesh And Bone - General Discussion]

I am really enjoying this show, but I think I have more tolerance for the inconsistencies and cliches in general than do most people.

 

Bryan is the creepiest.  The brother-sister incest in this show makes the one in Game of Thrones look healthy and normal.  I'm really curious about whether Claire's hiatus was the result of a pregnancy or a suicide attempt.

 

Did Mia lose sensation in her arm?  I hope she won't end up with some illness that impairs her muscles  By the way, I cannot get over how much Emily Tyra reminds me of Sutton Foster.  Anyone else feeling that?

 

I agree with Toni that these dancers are too robotic in the African dance.  But I was really afraid that Claire was going to give in to her brother to have the sex that Toni and Paul felt she needed.  The guy in the strip club who fell in love with her is cliche, but I'd rather she sleep with him than with Bryan!  BTW, am I the only one who thinks he will turn out wealthy and become a patron of the ballet?

[S02.E07: 207]

Scotty saying "that's our baby" makes way more sense after the whole "cursed Lockhart offspring" discussion. Wonder why the cursed skipped a generation and allowed all the current Lockhart boys to survive easily to adulthood.

  

Yes, that's what I didn't get about "we're cursed" stuff.  How come Ma Lockhart had a whole bunch of kids?  Did this curse not affect her?

I don't think that she meant that the curse was literally about no children. The curse was about bad things happening to the family, which manifested in different ways: 1) dad hanged himself on Cole's birthday, 2) current generation lost the family property (regardless of the reason), and 3) next generation didn't survive. Three generations after granddad's crime, all trace of the Lockhart's could be wiped out. Of course, she's also being a little dramatic.

[S02.E07: 207]

Last season the Lockharts had a horse farm (and Martin worked there briefly).  So they clearly had a considerable amount of very valuable land.  And it was clearly in the family for generations.  Cherry had to have fucked things up pretty badly financially to lose this place.  She said she re-financed it several times & maybe they weren't making enough revenue as a horse farm.  

 

Perhaps I am mixing this up with another show, but wasn't there some mention of them having lost some of the drugs they were selling?  Their supplier would still want to be paid.  Maybe that's related to their financial issues.

 

I somehow doubt that Noah is doing his PR person but I have little doubt that he will be looking for a new muse to inspire his next novel. Allison may no longer be 'damaged' or interesting enough for him anymore now that she is nesting. 

 

Noah is a snob in his own way. He seems embarrassed to introduce Allison as a waitress. 

 

WTH does Whitney see in Scotty? 

 

I'd have to question the friendship of someone who introduced me to Max. I guess if it is all fun and games and you want a sugar daddy to buy you pretty things and help pay your student loans he is okay but ugh! 

 

I seem to be one of the few people who thinks that Noah did not have sex (or anything close) with Eden.  He is very career-focused right now, and no woman--no matter how pretty or sexy-- can compete with that.  This is his big chance and he will do what it takes to promote the book, even ignore his pregnant fiancee.  I doubt that Eden would be his next muse--she's not vulnerable enough IMO to excite him that way.  

 

Also, I don't know the title of this episode, but it should have been called Burst Bubble.  Now that they are for the first time living real life together, it's obvious they don't really fit together (yet).  

• Noah may not have been the center of a celebrity party like he was in this episode, but he likely attended them in the past with Helen.  We don't get his POV, but if he noticed Alison at all at the party, he would likely have compared her unfavorably to Helen, who would be independent enough to talk comfortably with the people in this crowd, and probably instinctively know which contacts were valuable, and would have left on her own (without troubling him) if she felt the need to do so.  

 

I am giving Noah a break on showing up late for Thanksgiving. Whatever function he was at did seem to be important to his career. How many chances will he get to promote a bestselling book? Just about anyone in Alison's shoes would understand that and be happy their partner was having their most successful career day ever. Instead, Alison reacted in her usual Alison way and made me hate her even more. Of course, this all ignores the fact that a function like that would probably never have occurred on Thanksgiving. People have other places to be on that day.

 

• I thought that Alison was not very understanding and supportive of the networking opportunities, possibly because she's never had the type of job that required it to be successful. However, she's probably hormonal and tired, and she probably wouldn't really understand the importance of networking to the success of Noah's book, so I guess I give her a pass.  Perhaps he should have briefed her better ahead of time on how these things work.

 

• For her part, Alison saw for the first time the downside of being with "the great artist".  It's an unspoken expectation that she's expected to hold down the fort and get all the practical stuff done (like Tgiving dinner) and to be an asset to his career by chatting up the right people at the networking parties and to put up with flirty fans and PR girls.  Also, she never asked to be Noah's muse, but that's who people want to meet--the woman who inspired him to write.  Meanwhile, all she really wants is a normal family life, but she's looking for it with the wrong man. She's used to Cole, who volunteered to fix her toilet even after they split up. IMO, Noah wants someone who will take care of that stuff and not bug him with it.  Sadly, unless she inspires his next book, Alison will probably never again enjoy the role she played at the center of Noah's attention and life.

 

I feel that Whitney's misplaced love of Scotty has a lot to do with the fact that she feels that her daddy abandoned her and doesn't love her anymore.  And that he got her pregnant and she got an abortion.  That's traumatic, emotional stuff for a teenager.  Even horrible Whitney.

 

Somewhere, Barney Stinson (from How I Met Your Mother) is waiting for Whitney to turn 18.  She is the perfect example of how girls with bad relationships with Dad look for love with  all the wrong men.  But for the record, I think that Scotty is very handsome, so it doesn't surprise me that she was attracted to him.  He also was able to create a (temporary) rapprochement between Cole and his family, so he does have some redeeming value.  However, not being able to refrain from texting while saying grace?  WTF?

 

I actually liked the fact that Cole's family held him accountable for his actions.  Not comforting his brother and SIL after the miscarriage? Complete jerk move. Mom was right to draw the parallel to his father--Cole is heading down that path.  (Though I cringed every time they said hung instead of hanged.)

 

BTW, since I have not seen any comments about this, I must be the only one who was afraid that Cole would sleep with Whitney.  The past comments that he always takes what belongs to Scotty (Luisa, the restaurant) and the idea that she might take revenge on Scotty by sleeping with his brother had me worried.  The way it turned out was just perfect though.

 

I loved the way Cole said, "She thinks she's in love," to Noah.  Did anyone else think he was kinda referring to Alison too?

 

I think that Cole made up the missing money clip to drive away Luisa.  It happened right after she said I love you and he saw that she had moved Gabriel's picture.  She was getting too close to him.  Glad they patched things up.

[S07.E06: Lies]

Because, apparently, the leading named partner of this prestigious law firm does all the grunt work herself.

I didn't say she personally reviewed every resume that came in. However, for a firm that size, it would absolutely make sense for her to provide guidance (like the need for diversity or a preference for certain past experience) to a more junior lawyer or HR person, who would review the resumes and make recommendations for who should go to the interview round. Diane would the bless or challenge those choices and the interviews would begin. It's not a company with hundreds of employees, so a senior partner like Diane might well take a special interest in the hiring process.

[S07.E06: Lies]

The concerns about Monica's "second tier" law school and her LSATs were ridiculous.  That information was known before they invited her to interview.  They should have been discussing what they learned about Monica through the interviews -- but of course they learned nothing, because they were going through the motions rather than actually getting to know her.

My impression was that Diane was okay with her law school and had allowed her to get through the resume review process to interviews. The others were likely not involved until the interview stage. But i've taken to doing other stuff while watching the show, so I might have invented that part.

[S02.E06: 206]

When I watched the trailer for this show, I thought it would go down the path of Allison (I didn't know names at the time) and her husband targeting Noah, seducing him, framing him for a crime, and then blackmailing him.  Once I actually started watching the show, I quickly moved away from that theory, because there was no evidence to support it.  However, for those who feel Noah raped Allison, do you think that it's likely that she might stay with him to set him up?

[S07.E06: Lies]

Am I the only one who absolutetly HATES the NSA story again? Not only it's stupid, is boring as hell. And I cannot believe just because she mentioned Snowden she can have her phone intervened. Don't they actually hear the context? So if I'm talking to a friend over the phone and say the party wa "da bomb" the NSA is inmediatetly going to target me as a potential terrorist? I don't buy it. I'd think they already have many legitemately suspicious people to track to waste time on random jokes. Plus, she's the governer's wife for God's sake!! 

 

The only way I'd forgive that NSA story again is if it'd finally gets Peter in jail where he belongs. I mean, I assume they're bringing this back so the voting fraud thing finally comes to light. Because, let's face it, this is the third time a fraud has been known and nothing has come of it. Nothing. Whatever happened to that video of Peter's henchmen sneaking voting boxes? You'd think he'd be in jail by now. And I was never convinced Peter was innocent way back in season 1 about those corruption charges. Do you guys remember how Alicia was investigating about a necklace (I think) he had given her and it apparently had been bought by tainted money? Why did the writers just forget about all that?

 

This. And the woman wasn't even in the second interview! And why would they even let Howard interview anyone! That's a lawsuit waiting to happene!

I understand the majority of the people here can't believe that Diane, Lee and Cary would be so clueless, but lets'face it, it happens. I had way more racist things said to me when I was studying in the UK by faculty members. These were tenured professors who actually taught masters and PHD to many internatioanl students. You'd think that when at least half their students were foreign, most from developing countries, they'd at least have some clue, but nope. I know none of them meant wrong, they were actually trying to be nice. They were just so clueless. So yeah, I can buy it.

Not a big fan of the NSA guys either...

When the interviews started, I actually thought they were testing her toughness by deliberately being obnoxious. I was a little surprised when that didn't come out in Diane's second meeting with the candidate.

[S07.E06: Lies]

What do we have to do to get Carey and Diane a good storyline? Is there a petition I can sign? Is there a suggestion box somewhere? Come one, there has got to be something! Anything is better than "LAL have apparently never seen a black woman before, and they get busted"!  I just really found that to be unbelievable. From Howard, yeah I buy it. But everyone else assuming someone from Baltimore must be from a rough neighborhood? Because shes black? And saying it, basically, out loud? They aren't idiots, they're named partners at a major law firm in a major city! Come on!

Agreed. Especially since Lockhart Gardner had a name partner (Michael Ealy's character) who lived inthe DC area, and an equity partner, Julius, who was also African American, this plot was very poorly executed.

[S02.E06: 206]

I agree, biochexwist, he was happy to reap those benefits for like 20 years before he walked away. Not only that, Noah flat out attributes the dissolution of his marriage to falling in love with another. The show tries to sell us on soulmates and how you can't fight it. Margaret may have been an obstacle in their marriage and made their separation worse, but I refuse to put his shit and actions on "if only Helen had this insight sooner."

ETA: Boundary, who Noah was in that marriage was as a result of himself. When Helen read Noah to Alison in the stoop scene, she accurately described him. Her parents made their marriage harder, but Noah putting all his shit on her and pretending like she's the bad person because he fell in love with another woman is on him. The reason "fault" is a discussion is because Noah cannot admit to fault at all. Even when he says he fell in love with another woman, it's not his fault. It's not his fault how he left and the people he devastated by his actions. If Noah was actually a a mature individual, he would've called Helen on her shit years ago and fought to have a healthier marriage. But, no, he let it happen, and then walked away because he found his soulmate.

Although Noah seems to genuinely believe he left his wife because he fell in love with Allison, I am not sure that I believe it. He may have never articulated his dissatisfaction, but I think we observed it. However, I don't think he was dissatisfied with Helen specifically, but rather his life --particularly his unsuccessful career. The fact that his in-laws looked down on him and were not checked by Helen exacerbated the issue. (I think that a person can face the same temptation when they are vulnerable and when they are not, and have two very different reactions.) That made him vulnerable to the attraction to Allison, the same way that Allison's grief made her vulnerable to Noah's attentions. Whether he actually fell in love with Allison or was running from his life 1) does not make Helen to blame IMO and 2) will not affect whether or not he stays with Allison for the duration of the show, so it's moot.

[S02.E06: 206]

Thought it was weird that little Trevor thought that Martin's "girlfriend" should die.

 

The kids are children and grandchildren of writers.  I think that accounts for their overly dramatic behavior (Martin's fake suicide, Whitney's drama, and Trevor's idea of a romantic relationship with a dying girl).

[S02.E06: 206]

OK, am I the only one confused?  They've teased us with this "memory" of Noah driving and running over someone, and now it turns out it's just a vision, or a plot in his book?  He certainly can't remember a death that hasn't occurred yet. 

 

At this point, I'm not convinced that Helen has been cut off.  I would think that Helen telling off Margaret, would ingratiate Helen towards Bruce.  I'm sure there's been a push and pull between her parents her whole life, and I really felt empathy for Helen in the attorney's office.   

 

...

 

I would be curious to see the second half in Alison's version.  Did she really only make male friends?  It doesn't seem likely.  Alison's close friends in season one were all female - waitress, musician, and sister-in-law.  So it's more of Noah's insecurity, or his perception that she's a femme fatale?

 

Re: Memory/Vision -- I think that running over Allison is his imagination/vision.  I suspect that part of the reason he is suspected in Scott's death is that it is very similar to the end of his book.

 

Re: Cut off -- I think that in a future episode we may see a confrontation between Helen and her father, leading to the money issue.  Also, her father's new girlfriend may create a rift between father and daughter.

 

Re: Allison's friends -- Actually, from what we know of Allison, I think it's very plausible that she makes friends faster with men than women.  (We saw this with Yvonne and Robert before they read the book.) Even if she is not openly flirting with them, some women just give off a vibe that attracts men. She is close to her sister-in-law and her colleague at the diner, but we don't know how long it took her to become friends.  I will allow that this might be exaggerated by Noah's perspective.

[S02.E06: 206]

I guess it was really just from the cab scene, although there was a line when he screamed over Margaret tonight about "I fell in love and I seduced her" or something. Maybe wrongly, but I felt like the show was trying to make us sympathize with him cheating for realizing his marriage was a mess and never what he wanted so he went out and did something about it, like that's far more admirable than suffering in silence like Margaret did.

My interpretation of that line was that he was an pathetic old man trying to recapture his youth. It did not make me sympathetic at all.

[S07.E06: Lies]

What was Eli supposed to be seeing in Alicia's face?

 

I think he saw love in her face, and was surprised by that. Alicia loved Peter a long time before they broke up. Maybe she's ready to forgive.

  

I can't believe David poohpoohed a real law school as not being top tier. How did someone from a not-top-tier school even get an interview with LAL.? I would love it if the newbies got better offers from "top tier" law firms.

It's pretty normal for law firms to be particular about the schools from which they recruit. My company was the same, but for MBAs

[S02.E06: 206]

Am I an awful person because I laughed at the apple throw? It was a joke. She wasn't trying to maim her kid. 

I think she didn't actually mean to hit him and was surprised that she did.  However, that's perhaps not the best example to set for the kiddies. :)

 

I liked that Helen dropped the hostility with Noah.  It may seem unfair that Noah gets everything he wants, but I think ultimately Helen will be happier for letting go of the anger.  

 

As much as I liked Helen telling her mother off, I hope that she doesn't continue to blame her mother for her problems.  Helen had a choice in whose advice she took, and she should own her choices.  I assume that it was just a matter of her venting after a scary visit to the ER and that going forward she will have a healthier and more mature relationship with her parents.  I do think she was spot on about her mother wanting her marriage to fail.  Misery loves company, and Margaret was probably annoyed that her husband loved his little gumdrop more than her.  I actually think that the breakup of her marriage might end up being the best thing for Helen--she is releasing pent up emotions that she's been hiding for years.

 

Whitney-- you can share a room with your sister, and not just for a weekend.  Plenty of people do this every day, and don't imagine you'll have your own room in college.  However, she did show some maturity in comforting her mother and getting an appropriate cake for her brother.  Maybe she is the type that steps up during a crisis, but is a spoiled brat in other times.

 

It's nice to see Allison smile -- Ruth Wilson has a lovely smile when she's allowed to use it!  The yoga retreat (and the six weeks break from Noah and sex) were good for her.  I like that she has become more self-aware about her relationship with sex.  However, this is the second time she has had somewhat rough, semi-public sex (first time was with Cole on the hood of the car). That suggests that she has some way to go still.  Also, she clearly did not seem that happy that Noah is now free to marry her.  I don't think she really wants it.  

 

I thought we got good insight into Noah this episode.  

1) The shine has come off the affair for Noah.  It will be interesting to see if he embraces new fatherhood or feels trapped with Allison.  He is clearly nostalgic about family life, but that was a look of fear when Allison announced she was pregnant.  "i blew up my life for you, Allison." Sounds like Helen was right in that last episode--he's already starting to blame her for his decisions.

2) "I'm the asshole in the book.  I destroy everyone I care about. I ruin my life. The story isn't even about you.  It's about me."  A) He sees the "story" being about him and not them--that's telling.  B) He really seems to hate himself.  I think that's why he comes off as such a jerk in his own POV. Perhaps others don't think of him as badly as he thinks of himself. C) Sex with Allison is about him.  About Inspiring him to write.  Not about them.

3) He is so desperate to have a happy ending in his book--as though that will somehow create a happy ending in his real life.  The reiki helps him see that he has to release his demons, so he changes the book ending to the one that his editor wants.  It will be interesting to see if he now believes his relationship with Allison is now doomed or if the releasing of the demons helps them move forward as a couple.  

4) His reaction to Sebastian Junger was interesting.  Noah doesn't seem to have a lot of people to whom he looks up--he has poor relationships with his father and his father-in-law, for example.  He pooh-poohed everything about the retreat until Junger recommended reiki. 

 

On a side note, was I the only one who was afraid we might see another erection this episode during the reiki? 

[S02.E05: 205]

When Robert told Allison that Yvonne was firing her and replacing her with a writer from the workshop, my first impression was that Yvonne was bringing in a young man who would be her protege/lover and that this was something she did on a period basis.  Am I the only one who got that impression?  I haven't seen other comments to that effect, and I had actually forgotten that that was my first impression until now.