SwordQueen

I’m not even sure I understand the question. So, because Poker Night involved more than just Kim behaving badly, then she has no responsibility for her actions thereon out? Kim’s actions are excused because “The other HW started it!”? Kim was forced to be nasty to the other HW because they said something she didn’t like? They brought up a subject she’d asked them not to? She gets to control every single conversational topic? She can’t be gracious in the face of someone else’s behavior? When does Kim’s responsibility for her own self kick in? Is she not at fault for anything because Kim is one big reaction to the world? It’s everyone else’s fault that they drove Kim to do things? Would Kim be a wonderful, kind, sober person if not for other people who make life hard for her? I’m running out of ideas, here. lol I honestly don’t know why Kim can’t apologize or admit that she has hurt people (Lisa was able to, more than once but somehow that's not good enough). And that even, that she can't apologize, is someone else’s fault. If Lisa is to be held responsible for Lisa's behavior and Kyle for Kyle's behavior and Eileen for Eileen's behavior .... why shouldn't Kim be held responsible for Kim's behavior? That is all anyone wants, is for Kim to stop blaming others and accept responsibility for her part.

I wanted to add that if any of her behavior is directly linked to drinking, drugging or taking prescribed meds, then it is still Kim's responsibility to do something to correct that. Not taking pills that do not belong to you, going to your DR to switch meds, going to CB therapy, changing who you socialize with, etc. Just like with Brandi, who admits that she gets out of control when she drinks too much. How does she stop herself from getting out of control when she drinks too much? The answer is in the question.

Thank you for your insightful post, CajunGirl, and welcome to the boards! So much yes to your post. It's more about her behavior and not her sobriety because sober or not, she's responsible for how she behaves. And excusing that behavior as just part of her "addiction" or "illness" is probably doing more harm long-term than good. Lots of people have illnesses (mental and physical) and addictions. They do not all act the way Kim does. Being a horrible person is generally not a symptom or side-effect of illness or medication, so she needs to stop having her behavior excused for her. It doesn't help her to think she gets a free pass in life to behave how she wants to because she's a fragile addict. That's just enabling.

Oh man, I would love a HW show with just soap actresses. And since some of them are married to other soap actors, we'd get to see them, in all their smell-the-fart glory, too. Needs to happen.

Does Kim stop doing what others have asked her not to do? Poor Kim. I'm going to start a GoFundMe account for Kim Richards because she's obviously being bullied, mistreated, misrepresented, and maligned by life. It's unfair. Life is being unfair. I'm telling!

What's amusing to me is that Kim was so involved in trying to prove her sobriety through junkie logic that she didn't even hear not only Rinna's apology but that Rinna basically said that Kim was right in that she had gone too far in her efforts (overstepped). Kim was right, she said (no matter how sincere it was). You'd think that would have appeased and vindicated Kim, in that moment. But Kim couldn't/wouldn't even hear it because she had a plan. A plan to make Rinna pay, dammit, and anyone else, who got in her way. This was not about Kim's feelings being hurt, or Kim's children suddenly realizing that she wasn't sober, or anything else but revenge and spite because Rinna had her number. As did Eileen which is why she went off on her almost as much. Kim was pissed that Lisa R and Eileen weren't going to be cooperative and obey Kim's secrecy rules. Kim was pissed that her "pain pill disagreed with me" story was being scrutinized and questioned. Kim was pissed that the other HW wouldn't accept that excuse in lieu of an apology, which Kim didn't feel like she was obligated to give. Kim was pissed that they were pissed and she wasn't going to let that go.

When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle is not there for her? When will Kim stop pointing out that others are going to cause her kids to "disown" her? When will Kim stop pointing out that others are talking behind her back? When will Kim stop pointing out that Lisa is trying to harm her sobriety? When will Kim stop pointing out (literally) that Eileen has an ugly face or that Lisa needs bread? When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle (literally) runs away from her? When will Kim stop pointing out that other people are being stupid? When will Kim stop pointing?

Watching the scenes in the pot pub and from the Dinner From Hell: The Sequel, I'm very curious about Brandi's friendships, in particular with Jennifer. I wonder how Brandi is around her when it comes to drinking and taking drugs -- if she does or abstains completely. I know Brandi has reflected on whether or not it's a good idea for her to imbibe around Kim but I never got a sense of her coming to a conclusion on that. She seems, from what has been shown, to be sensitive and caring towards Jennifer, but I wonder how she'd react if it were Jennifer who "took a pain pill" and then proceeded to yell and scream at her? Would Brandi be so ready to excuse her behavior and would she go around and drop little truth bombs to other people regarding Jennifer's sobriety? I also wonder, if Jennifer is watching this show, how she feels about Brandi doing this to Kim? She was very judgmental towards Kyle and the rest of the ladies about their drug pasts and in particular, about Kyle's reluctance to indulge while in Amsterdam, on camera. Was this just because it was Kyle or is she like this with her other friends? Does she get on everyone's case RE: hypocrisy, or are her other friends just like she is, with not appearing to care about the repercussions of their behavior, so they just let it all hang out? Brandi was definitely behaving as if she had been chastised and warned prior to their trip and I wonder who was behind that, unless, like some suggested, it was part of the plan she and Kim cooked up to wreak havoc on the other ladies. It seems kinda silly for her to worry about legal ramifications of any drunken behavior on the trip since this season she's already been shown inebriated on camera.

I think you may be idealizing the past just a tad. It's not like humanity has been all peace, love and unity up until now. Families are often cruel to one another -- all kinds of abuse and neglect, people abandoning their family members, people disowning their children for being gay, having children out of wedlock, religious differences, interracial/interfaith relationships, drug use, etc., etc. I think too much "do whatever it takes" and "keep the peace" can lead to unhappiness and dysfunction and people acting either like entitled brats or like martyrs. There's a balance somewhere, to be found, and each person needs to find what theirs is. If Kim is speaking the truth, I applaud her children for stepping up, taking action and standing their ground against a mother who is incapable of being a healthy influence in their lives. I have no idea what they've had to go through with their parents but I am glad that they seem healthy-enough, at least in this instance, to not allow their mother's bad behavior to interfere with their lives. Co-dependency is not healthy. I hope Kim can get and stay clean for their sakes if she won't do it for her own.

Ahhh, I should have read this before my own reply because your post is perfect. I'm sorry you have had to go through these issues within your own family. I think one of the hardest things is having someone in your life whom you feel both love and hate for, at the same time. Such strong opposing emotions and it makes having a relationship with them and creating boundaries just that much harder. This is what I wish I could hear Kyle say: I love myself and my husband and children more. It might sound cruel to some, but generally a person's immediate (spouse/kids) family should be their priority. Kyle should be Kyle's priority. As long as she believes otherwise (Kim's insistence that Kyle put her first), Kyle is never going to be able to release the guilt and anger she has.

Why does it have to get to the point where she's stumbling to event after event before enough is enough? Why does Kim get to act that way continuously before she's called out? Why is Kim so special? Kim made the choice to take drugs and verbally and emotionally abuse other people. The people she abused do not want to just drop it, because, why? Why does Kim get to act horrible and other people just have to stay silent? They have a right to be angry at her. Why is Kim so special? They are all under contract to interact with each other and they all have to be the in same room in order to accomplish that. So, yes, if Kim is in a room with them and is being drunk, high, and abusive, then they are being held hostage. This is a TV show, which is a job. They can't just leave every time Kim stumbles into the room pointing her fingers at them. If Kim doesn't want people bringing up the fact that she's a relapsed junkie then she can stumble her way back home. Why is up to the other ladies to make life OK for Kim? Why is Kim so special? People's actions are not isolated events. People have reputations and complex histories with those they have relationships with. So, yes, Kim is being judged on her past and also the probable future. It's human nature and a societal norm. Kim is not better than the rest of us. She doesn't get to behave the way she does and have zero consequences. One of the consequences of acting like an asshole is that people might not forgive and certainly will not forget. So her past actions are held up as an indicator of future actions and people will act accordingly, which might mean that they are going to assume she will come at them viciously in some inebriated state. This applies to all people. Why is Kim so special? You might react a certain way, and you might not see what the big deal is with Kim's behavior, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong for anyone else to be bothered by it, just as it's not wrong for you to feel the way you do. We all come at these situations differently. I can only speak for myself, here, but as I've said before, I've have a good deal of exposure to people like Kim and the emotional/psychological effects of being around someone so toxic are real and often difficult to separate oneself from. it can even cause a person to act in ways that they wouldn't normally because of the stress. This is what Kim does. She hurts people and then becomes angry when people express their feelings of hurt to her. She doesn't want to take responsibility for herself and the real damage that she causes. Now since I've been around this stuff and far worse, Kim's behavior isn't very shocking to me, even though it angers me. But think about it like this; some of the other HW may never have experienced someone behaving this way in their presence before. It is a shock to the system, especially when it's unexpected. I think most of them thought that Kim was sober before that night, or at least not back to habitual use. It came out of left field and no one was prepared for Kim to relapse right in front of them. What really gets me is that the focus is all inverted. It has become all about the other HW behavior and RE-actions to Kim, when Kim's actions are being excused and swept under the rug. It is Kim who is responsible for Kim. No one else, not anyone. Her actions are harmful to herself and to others but the other HW are getting shit for not responding to her in just the right ways. Kim is skating on her behavior by throwing out some of the most basic of addict tricks, projection, deflection, divide and concur. Bottom line is that no one can make a storyline out of Kim's sobriety without Kim's help. She is not a victim here. You can argue that none of the other ladies are either, okay, sure. No one is innocent here. But just because the other HW have made missteps in this SL, it doesn't make Kim less accountable for her own actions of getting high and being emotionally, verbally abusive. If Kim were actually working a program and getting therapy, then we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing onscreen now. Kim's behavior is not the result of successful sobriety. She is not sober, she is not doing the work. That is on Kim and she needs, absolutely needs, for her own wellbeing, to be held accountable for herself. Everyone else is held accountable for their words and deeds. Kim needs to be as well. Kim is not so special, that the rules of society do not apply to her. I also wanted to add that all of this isn't me saying that I agree with the other HW reactions to Kim. I don't. I would have done differently and I definitely would not have put in so much effort with Kim. But I do have to say, these ladies have been nicer to Kim than she deserves. While I might not have kept at Kim as they did, I can tell you, I also wouldn't have been nearly, nearly as nice about it as they have been. Just like with Brandi, the other HW have been far kinder than I'd have been. Would my reactions have been better, or worse, I dunno.

Kim's mood during that one-sided apology meeting was so smug. She was so controlled in her anger the night prior, which as was noted before, debunks her claims that she get so nervous and can't speak up for herself. I think she's able to because she has liquid/powdered courage. She seems to react very differently to the vast variety of substances she takes, too. Like her controlled rage comes through with certain drugs and that uncontrolled goofiness comes though with others. I have no idea if she was sober or not on that trip but I'm thinking no. I assumed she was because of how agitated and resentful she seemed to be, but now, I just can't say. That kind of control she exhibited before, during and after the dinner blow-up and then the next morning was disturbing to see. It was a very calculated, emotionally-void, malicious kind of control. I think for me it was even more disturbing than had she been out of control crazy and emotional. All of those TH gifs reminds me of my favorite one that I haven't seen posted yet. Like how is that women, the same women we saw in AmsterDAMN?

I think Brandi and definitely Kim are in a whole 'nother level of crazy, called Bat Shit. They are harmful to themselves and others. Lisa is like an eccentric dweeby weirdo. lol She's kooky, imo, but not coo-coo. I think that's the perfect kind of crazy for these kinds of shows. BSC is just too much, imo. There's no humor in BSC, whereas it's okay to laugh at the kooky without feeling like you're contributing to someone's downward spiral. BlackMamba - That is so sad about Kim's kids. I can't find any more empathy for Kim or Brandi but I have oodles for their children. What we see on our screens every week is only a tiny fraction of what they have to deal with all of the time. It makes me sick that Kim is using her kids that way, as an excuse to avoid being called out on her relapse and her nasty behavior. She really should be ashamed of that. It's not anyone's fault that her children don't want to be around her, but her own.

I feel like the pot-gate non-starter happened because it was Brandi's turn to make trouble for Kyle (and the group). Kim couldn't manage to break up the Lisa-Kyle-Lisa-Eileen quad, so she was going to try to cause discord during their first sans-Kim outing. And she couldn't get it going while in the café, so, like any lady, she took it to the street. But again, she failed to really set Kyle off, so she left in a huff. She needs to stick to her strengths; telling lies, finger-banging shadow puppetry, and being a HW husband lap-warmer.

So, this just reminded me of something else I'm pissed about (when am I not pissed tho, right? lol). Kim. Kim and her 100% pain can fuck 100% off. Shows how truly narcissistic she is that she's complaining about being in 100% pain, while stealing the medication from her ex-husband who is dying of FUCKING CANCER! But, it's all about HER pain, y'all. It makes me so angry how she diminishes everyone else's pain in order to excuse her selfish junkie behavior. Grrrrr. She really needs to go away.

I see nothing wrong with friends laughing and joking about things that they've already been there, done that with. Does every conversation have to be launched out of a "truth cannon"? Sometimes I joke round with my friends about drugs, partying, and sex, all silly, tongue-in-cheek innocent-like. And I ain't no innocent virgin. Brandi seems to think that she's the only one who can make jokes, and her jokes aren't even funny most of the time, to anyone but her. Not everybody experiments with drugs in their life or have, but with very specific ones and not everybody wants to talk about it. It amuses me how Kim's raging, very-public addiction relapse is her business, only, but the other HWs' private past-tense drug history is everyone's business. Who cares if any of the HW don't want to discuss their drug use history on camera because of their kids? Why is it hypocritical to downplay it for the sake of their kids, in that moment? We don't know what they actually tell their children in private. And actually it's not a bad thing to show kids how to have discretion even when you're in the public eye, like their parents are. Just because they are in Hollywood or are on TV doesn't mean that they shouldn't value privacy and display judgment regarding their private lives. And do the drug rules also apply for discussing blow jobs and anal, too? Because I can see Brandi bitching about their hypocrisy with not wanting to out all of their sexual proclivities, either. I'm kinda weirded out by Brandi's fixation on the other HW's choices regarding their children. She needs to focus on her own kids and how her own behavior affects them. Man, I'm feeling so grouchy about Brandi. lol I just want her to get off my lawn, dammit!

I found Brandi so exhausting in that pot pub scene. She tries so, so hard to be included with the "cool girls" and then when she is, she criticizes everyone and is a big ole buzzkill. Their joking may not have been her particular thing, but damn girl, you talk about how loose and free you are -- stop being so rigid! I actually do think she was jealous about not only Kyle and Lisa V. being friends again but with how Lisa R and V, Eileen, Kyle and Yo all get along with each other so well. She feels like she's being unfairly judged for the same things that other women do, but she doesn't see that the other women actually don't do what she does. The same refusal to look inward that Kim has. I don't know two people who are more alike than they are, truly. Even beyond Kyle and Kim.

Yeah, Kim doesn't care what is being said. Someone upthread totally nailed it. She's too busy forming a rebuttal (or insult) in her head while someone else is speaking to really hear anyone. She's also listening for keywords like "addiction", "perfect", "turtle", "Kyle" to know if she should be "Goofball Kim" or "Righteous Sober Kim" . I talk with my hands. A lot. But I don't point at other people like that. Terrible habit and very disrespectful. I have a few hand gestures of my own for Kim and Kyle. I wonder if and how often they could actually get away with doing that. I know refusing to film at all is not tolerated but at what point, if any, is it okay to walk out? I would actually have liked it if they'd al done this -- they being Kyle, the Lisas and Eileen. I want to see more of those ladies doing their thing. What in the windmill was up with that long lost boyfriend of Yo's? He didn't look like he could have even been born when Yolanda was still living there. That was weird. Is this what this show has come to? Made up memories? "Remember when we kissed?" "Yeah, no, sorry." Well that was thrilling....

I dunno, this is just my experience with being around unstable people who curse at you, get in your face and make threats. My arms get allllll up when that happens. Yes, her sitting down to dinner, was her performing at her job. Her job, being a wash-up, coked-out child celeb on a reality tv show, which showcases her life and relationships. Her life, as we've seen it, revolves around relationships with alcohol, turtles, chicken salad, pain pills, fancy blouses, a fleeing sister, fingers, a bitey dog, and one lipstick dildo. Again, her actions this season are not in a vacuum. Every other interaction the other HW have had with her, also comes into play. Her attitude towards "this pill" has actually had more to do with this season' storyline than the pill itself. If she even gave the teeny tiniest fuck about how she behaves when high, and was actually apologetic for that, much of this would not have happened. People are not going to drop a subject when someone acts a fool and then tries to hand wave it. She controlled this season's storyline more than anyone. Kim is actually responsible for herself and her feelings and her actions. If she isn't and everyone else is, then why get on everyone else's case for trying to manage her? It can't be both ways. It can't be "Kim has no autonomy or responsibility over her actions. She's an addict. She's a bee or a bear or cat." and then in the same breath say that "Everyone needs to leave Kim alone because her behavior is her business". If she cannot manage herself, someone else will. Now maybe she needs to be committed, I dunno, but whatever it is, it needs to be done away from the last HW show I watch. lol

Okay, so I feel the need to defend myself here. Yes, I love the word fuck, it's my favorite fucking word. But you see, I can't possibly be Brandi. I don't even use tampons. lol I fall down on the regular in my bare feet, but somehow I'm better at walking when I'm in my hooker heels. Good point. She doesn't have much of a sense of humor does she? She likes to either be dirty or catty, and almost always at inappropriate times with the wrong audience. Now I love me some bawdy blue humor, but that's not what Brandi does. There's no humor in her sexual comments. At least Lisa V tries but she's too one note. She was fresher in Season 1 before all of her jokes were played out. Someone sat these women down and make them watch some Mae West and Bette Midler!

Great post. I am of two minds when it comes to the “intervention” issue and Kim’s addict behavior being strictly “her business”. I totally understand why she feels like it’s her business and everyone should butt out. I get it, I’ve been there. I’m there so often I own a time share. But that is also a huge part of the illness. Of course no one wants their vices exposed and taken away from them. No one wants to feel vulnerable and embarrassed. No one wants to lose something that they feel is helping them cope with themselves and the world. I guess I think of it this way; if you replace her alcoholism with any other abusive behavior, would it still be only her business? If, instead of drinking and pills, she was binging and throwing up or taking laxatives and spending an inordinate amount of time in other people’s bathrooms or she was so underweight she couldn’t stand up for five minutes without passing out, would you still MYOB? If she were self-harming and you actually witnessed her taking out a razor and cutting herself, would you still MYOB? If she were being abused by her husband and you witnessed her being hit/pushed/slapped/shoved or her being verbally abused, would you still MYOB? It’s hard to know where the line is between a person’s autonomy to do with their life what they please and when it starts affecting everyone around them and someone has to step in. Kim crosses that line every single time she puts herself on camera and films herself high while interacting with the other HW. She’s not the quiet addict in the corner, either. Her addict behavior is...interactive. lol She brings it to other people’s attention and then balks at having them question her about it. That is my problem with this. If Kim doesn’t want to be sober or she wants to pretend she’s sober, that’s alllll on her. But she’s bringing that into other people’s lives and they (the HW and us) have a right to voice their opinion on that. I also don't think what they were trying to do was an official "intervention", unless Bravo had it set up to where there was an actual interventionist waiting in the wings when filming stopped. It was more like when a loved one has a "come to jesus" or a "heart to heart" with someone they care about and are worried about. I put more blame on Bravo's shoulder than the other HW because this is their show and if they didn't want to show Kim like this, then they wouldn't. That's Kim's responsibility to work out with the network.

I'm only on page 17, so I'm replying to things as I'm reading. Yep, that was me! What struck me about Brandi (which is why I made that post) was that she tries to excuse her behavior by blaming anyone who challenges her on it, claiming that they are somehow unfairly or unjustly judging her for her "personality" and not by what people are actually judging her on, which is her "character". Brandi's lack of integrity and propensity for dishonesty is definitely a part of her "character" that I do judge and that has nothing to do with her looks, how outgoing and fun loving she is, or how much she likes sex and alcohol or dirty jokes. What you say is about intent is interesting because for me, intent mostly takes a backseat to action when it comes to responsibility and remedy. The perfect example is Lisa R. Her intentions were genuine (imo, of course) to help Kim but her methods (actions) did not end up being helpful. So, instead of relying on her intentions to excuse her behavior, she acknowledges that her actions, while of good intent, weren't well executed and she apologized for them. No making excuses. And THIS is why Lisa R. earns my respect, but not Brandi or Kim. I really want to go into my bathroom, close the door, stare into the mirror and practice saying "How dare you." with soap opera flair. Man, hell yes. I'm so sick of hearing of how Lisa R and Kyle "outed" Kim's abuse problems. Anyone with eyes (and in person, a nose, I am sure) can tell you're wasted half the time, Kim. This is classic addict behavior as well. She's so blasted that, to her, she's acting composed and cool as a cucumber. To her, Nooooo one would ever be able to tell because she's hiding it so well, you see. This is why it's imperative that for someone who wants to be clean and sober, they need to listen and really hear what people are saying to them about their behavior when they are off the wagon. They can't see it for themselves. Rarely does anyone, addict or not, while intoxicated, have a clear picture of how they look to others. Her perception of herself is almost completely inverted. During the show on Tuesday, I was thinking to myself that I'd love it if, at the reunion, Andy handed out those foam wiffle bats to all the HW and let them beat each other upside their heads with them. lol I'd PAY to see that shit.

Love that review! I was nodding in agreement the entire time because: 1) I am also over BRAVO. 2) LOL Brandi does need some Pantene for that sorry weave. 3) Kim is bat shit crazy and needs to take a seat, preferably on a plane back to the US. 4 Lisa R needed to stare at the ceiling and look out the window, while Kim was in her room, not apologizing. 5) Kim needs to point her fingers towards herself because she’s the reason why she relapsed and her kids don’t want to be around her. 6) Kyle needs to tell Kim to go fuck herself, but she needs to stay in the room in order to do that. 7) Brandi’s pissed sitting in Mary Jane’s because she had to use Suave and White Rain to wash that sorry weave and is there without Kim, because Kim needs to sit down and fly home. 8) If Kyle doesn’t want to eat a space cake then she doesn’t have to, so STFU Brandi and it means more space cake for Lisa R. 9) Kim you’re not immune to relapse because you already have, you BSC heifer. 10) Brandi, again, some Pantene might help. 11) Kim, girl, bye. It's snowing like crazy, right now, ugh. I really need some green. I don't even care which one.

*shrug* Bravo is her employer. She voluntarily works for them. To live her life on camera. She voluntarily becomes high on camera, at her job. I just don't see Kim being the victim in all things. She has choices and she made them. Bravo is making theirs. That is between them to work out if Kim is unhappy with it.

I don’t see why a planned “intervention” is so bad, on its face. Aside from the fact that Kim is a stubborn addict in denial, that is. I mean, if your family, friends, and even your employer are sitting you down, then you’re in a pretty fucked up place in your life already. I don’t think Kim saying that she doesn’t want an intervention warrants much consideration since, when does any addict welcome having their addiction brought up and their vice taken away from them? But this is an addict’s thought process where the real tragedy is that people are talking about “their business” rather than it being that their life, relationships, and livelihood are in danger because of their addiction. But Kim will not change unless Kim wants to, except she's dragging others into her mess and that needs to stop, regardless.