JocelynCavanaugh
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Posts posted by JocelynCavanaugh
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She could be annoying and judgy at times but NOTHING like Brandon.
I also liked Stuart and I hated what the show did to him to break him and Brenda up.
True, I don't know why I didn't notice it during the original run, but Brandon was the most huffy, bossy priss-pot of the whole series. I credit Sarah and Tara for showing me the light.
Stuart was probably Brenda's best match. She seemed happiest with him. It was stupid to rush into marriage and I'm glad that was shut down, but I think they should've stayed together anyway and married eventually.
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I found it hard to believe that Tami devours junk food and doesn't work out. Did you see her body? Her daughter looked very fit too.
They're like a real-life Lorelai and Rory!
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I'm just going to be a bitch and say it: I don't think Jill is a smart person. Even if she'd been at public school she seems like the type of student who would have struggled and had to put in three times the amount of studying as the other kids. I always wondered if lay midwifery was her first choice or her last resort because she didn't have the grades or the test scores to qualify for an accredited program.
Not all kids are fast learners and there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think Jill could do two years of college coursework.
I generally agree with your assessment of Jill, but as a community college prof, I disagree about whether she could complete two years of coursework. She's no worse off than most of my students, and as long as she showed up to class, turned in her work, and made a passable effort to follow directions, I think she'd bop along with a C average. Community college, in theory, offers the same courses as the state universities, but in reality, we teach the students we have. Whether it's a good thing or not, Jill would fit in just fine academically. She might struggle with the social cues and expectations of a class with an actual schedule, deadlines, etc., but then again, so do many of our public HS grads.
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I've never thought Farrah was pretty. She went from "doing her best with what she had to work with" to "Black Hole Sun video," but there was never really a sweet spot in the middle like Kim K. c. 2010. Poor Sophia seems to have inherited the worst of Farrah and Derek. If she were being raised properly, she might be kind of cute in an unfortunate way, but with her current behavior, she's basically the female Ben Lovatt.
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I liked Kelly and Dylan. (I know, I know, but I never liked Brenda).
Same here! I was honestly shocked when I started reading forums about the show (years after it aired) and discovered that not only did people like Brenda, but the majority loved her and couldn't stand Kelly! I still feel like I'm being punk'd.
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I only knew Tami from The Real World, but I found her surprisingly likable in this episode. In fact, I liked everybody. It seemed like her husband and the Jenningses were all so low-key that nobody was going to be the first to start flipping out, so no one did. I actually liked this episode a lot!
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AFAIK, they haven't said that the daughters caused Josh to molest them. But they do say that, frequently, as a general principle, and if you read some of Gothard's materials on counseling molestation victims and teen molesters, they present a case where the molester says he was unable to control his "curiosity" after seeing his very young sisters running around in towels after their baths. The document also lists having boys change baby girls' diapers as a possible contributing factor leading to molestation. This is real, ATI-sanctioned doctrine. I don't think there's been any implication that the parents feel that the girls' behavior in the moment caused Josh to molest them. But when you put together what we have heard Michelle say, repeatedly, and what the ATI materials say, there's some implication that they may feel the girls' behavior in general was a contributor. You're right, as far as I can recall, they haven't come straight out and said so. They haven't addressed the question at all. But they do subscribe to this belief system.
I see what you're saying. I guess what I'm getting at is that it could be one of those things where people subscribe to a certain set of beliefs until it hits home. I'm thinking of the stories of conservative Christian families who have a change of heart once one of their own children becomes pregnant out of wedlock, or comes out of the closet, etc. While they may be Gothardites on balance, I have trouble believing that Jim Bob Duggar honestly believes that his 5-year-old daughter defrauded her brother and caused him to molest her, regardless of their over-arching beliefs. (Michelle, who knows? I think she's truly mentally ill.)
It seems like, since we have no definitive proof that they believe this particular thing, it's up to the individual to decide whether 1+1=2 or 2000 here. I just appreciate that this site tries to steer us away from spreading rumors and speculation without good reason, and my questions are in that spirit.
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From what I've read about fundamentalism and Gothardism, yes they do believe this about females of any age. Just my take on it.
Have the Duggars said this, specifically? That's what I'm trying to figure out, because it's such a horrifying thing to accuse anyone of.
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According to their beliefs, females' bodies are the reason males feel desire that cannot be righteously fulfilled. Hence the modest dress, etc. even in the youngest. Also, I believe they teach that simply having the lustful thoughts are just as bad as acting on them.
Do we have documentation that they believe this about 5-year-olds? My understanding was that it applied to older teens and grown women. Again, I think it's important that we stick to what we actually know that the Duggars have said or written, because implying that they believe their little girls were "asking for it" seems a bridge too far, even for them.
I don't think the Muslim discussion is relevant since they are quite actively not Muslim.
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Mchelle almost had an aneurysm when Josie ran around without her shrug at Jill's wedding reception. So, it's not a case of what they say, it's a case of what they do. Mchelle obviously thinks that the little girl is potentially enticing someone if she does not cover her shoulders. It's sad in retrospect, knowing what we know now, but that's not the only example of this. It's just the most blatant one that we all saw.
I know they do these things, but I think it's their sad, too-little-too-late attempts at protecting their daughters from more assaults. It may just be semantics, although I don't happen to think so, but even in the case of the Duggars, I think it's important not to flat-out state "they believe their adolescent/school-age daughters brought the molestation upon themselves" unless we have concrete evidence that they do, in fact, believe such a thing. They've given us enough fodder as it is, without us imputing even worse motives onto them.
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Because, as females (of any age), they were the ones who stirred up Josh's sexual thoughts and urges. Period. That's what they believe.
I have not heard or read the Duggars saying anything like this. They have messed up in so many ways, but I have never seen the Duggars blame their daughters for what happened to them. There is no evidence that they believe their young daughters enticed Josh.
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The article is dated March 10. Do we have any more recent confirmation?
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Could someone please enlighten me as to what exactly missionaries do.
Are they there to simply convert people of other religions - or no religion at all?
Or, do they go there and work their asses off to help them have clean water, gardens and stable housing?
I've spent a small amount of time around the religious sector and had an unfortunate small portion of my life subjected to fundie types, but I do not know how the missionary thing works with the fundie faction.
I want to understand what J&D would be doing in any country as a 'missionary'. No snark. Just curious.
A longer answer is probably more suited to the Religion thread, but in short, they do all of the above. It depends on the denomination/agency sending them, and what the missionaries are trained to do, but yes, many do relief work or community service (medical, education, etc.) and don't just try to convert everyone or tell them they're bad. (I guess some do though.)
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I hate how they eat salad with their mouths open and talk with their mouths full of salad.
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I really, really love Steve Sanders. He eclipses Bran the man, and brooding Dylan, for me.
I always found Steve extremely corny and annoying, but upon re-watching for the (5th? 7th? I don't even know at this point) time, I'm starting to agree. He was consistent, a good friend, and not as troubled as the other guys, and Ian Ziering was actually a pretty decent actor. There were a few standout episodes, like the one with Milton Berle. Dylan was always my favorite guy on the show, but if I knew them in real life, I'd probably like Steve better. Ian is also very nice on social media, which probably helps.
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In light of all the terrible fashions the 90s gave us, let us all bask in the sobering thought that Brian Austin Green is currently the best looking of the male cast.
In light of all the rumors and gossip about his relationships with Vanessa Marcil and Megan Fox, he's actually gotten less hot to me. Then again, I'm still saving myself for Luke Perry, so...
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Grief makes people do all kinds of inexplicable things. I'm reluctant to come down too hard on a mother who just lost her teenage daughter/firstborn, even if she has said and done some questionable stuff on TV in the past.
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I didn't hear the part about a family member but I do remember watching a clip of him during Farrah's appearance on Dr. Phil where Micheal was adamant that Farrah's co-star (in the porn video) James Dean traumatized Farrah by talking about the tape in public. "He took advantage of her, blah blah blah" Michael went so far to say it traumatized his entire family. .
But if a family member did traumatize Farrah I don't think we have to look much farther than her mother physically attacking her to the point that Farrah called the cops. I'm sure that wasn't the first domestic fight that happened in that house of crazy.
And we know it wasn't the first time Debra smacked Farrah. Remember when Farrah demanded Debra buy her a car because she was sick of being dependent on Debra for rides, lol, then proceeded to call her mother dumb etc. until Debra went ahead and cracked her in the face in the car. I understand the impulse but Debra had some serious anger issues. Maybe Michael feels guilty for not being around much for all that? Just a guess. A real psychologist (as opposed to some reality TV doc) could make a career off treating the Abrahams.
This is all true, and I'm sure it's related, but I keep thinking of the scene on Couples Therapy (for Actual Couples and Also Farrah) where Dr. Jenn was so horrified by whatever Farrah told her in private. She said something like "that's the most disturbing thing any client has ever told me." Now, they may have been playing up the drama for the show, but if there was any truth to what Dr. Jenn said, I can't believe she was that taken aback by the kind of abuse we already know about in the Abraham family. Debra and Farrah's relationship is dysfunctional, but probably run-of-the-mill stuff as far as a professional counselor is concerned. I strongly suspect there is more we don't know about.
Also, this is very unscientific and obviously I am not a licensed counselor, much less Farrah's, BUT the way Farrah acts and the choices she makes could be indicative of sexual abuse. I don't think Farrah's signing up to willingly be anally penetrated on camera by a known porn actor was the trauma, but I could easily believe it was behavior that occurred because of previous trauma. (Requisite disclaimer that not all porn actresses were abused, etc.; these comments are about Farrah specifically.) Her attempts to claim that James Deen was her boyfriend and the "sex tape" (professionally produced porno) was meant to be private are pretty transparently fake, and Deen has even made some comments about how it sucks that she threw him under the bus. I think that, although we all have access to a life-like mold of her most special areas, there is still a lot we don't know about Farrah.
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I really hate to say this, but I don't see how their marriage can survive something like this. No matter how Anna was raised, the stress level has to be catastrophic for Anna. I know that in their world, divorce is practically non-existent, but I can't see that she's able to trust him anymore. How can you be married to somebody that you don't trust, especially given the nature of his background? There must be a few people that the Duggars know who are divorced who share their values.
Anna probably can't/doesn't trust Josh at this point, but rather than divorce (which would probably be very difficult, if not impossible, for her to initiate), she'll probably just shut down and go through the motions. I could see a lot of resentment and distance forming between them, which might also lead to Josh acting out sexually in yet more fun and exciting ways such as porn addiction or adultery. Maybe at that point, though, Anna could finally justify leaving him.
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I think one of Farrah's biggest problems is that she's a terrible communicator, and that makes it even harder for people to understand or root for her. As others have mentioned, her thoughts are scattered, her sentences don't make sense, and she often mis-uses words. She rambles and obfuscates, and it's hard to tell whether that's an intentional tactic, or just how her mind works. She also clenches her jaw and doesn't enunciate, and speaks in a rapid monotone, which makes her even harder to follow. It seems to have been made even worse by all the terrible plastic surgery and botched lip injections. If Farrah wants to continue in the public eye, she really needs to get some elocution training, but of course no one can tell her that.
Also, I've noticed that she doesn't seem to know how she comes across, or how to control her facial expressions or tone. There have been several instances where I think she was genuinely trying to be playful or funny, or at least not actively hostile, but it still came out as snotty and sarcastic. I'm starting to think that she has a pretty severe social or cognitive dysfunction of some sort.
As to the unspecified trauma, I caught something Michael said briefly on the last Dr. Drew special. In the context of that "trauma," he alluded to being distant and letting Farrah down, and then said something offhandedly about a family member "taking advantage of" her. Drew, of course, didn't bother to pursue it (because that would've actually been new and interesting), but one could feasibly infer that the trauma had something to do with a family member abusing Farrah, and Michael either allowing it to happen, or not acting on it once he knew. If so, that would explain SO MUCH.
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It says he's accepted a job outside Walmart. Is that how he would word it if he's going to overseas missions? This sounds like he just took another day job.
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YES! For someone who was supposed to be super virtuous she certainly liked to show off a lot of skin in her everyday wardrobe.
I guess an intact hymen is all the coverage Donna needed. Because she was a virgin. I don't know if you guys caught that, on the show, that Donna didn't have sex and also was a virgin. They barely mentioned it. Little known fact, so to speak. ;)
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Thank you. Oh. I can't even imagine how they are feeling. I think Jeremy's wife (sorry, forgot her name. Shame on me.) had hoped that something positive would come out of this. I think she went into this with not much thought. But, when it was over, and the wives went back to their lives, she had a different feeling about this whole thing. I think Jeremy's wife really hoped to make a mark and that her feelings would be heard for the sake of the kids. Those kids, regardless of the fact the daughter was an adult, looked like they really appreciated having the attention they received from Jeremy's wife.
I don't normally follow any of them on Twitter, but I looked up their accounts after this news came out. Jeremy and Jackie both seemed to be promoting the show (as expected) and saying they had a good time. Jackie said "follow my good friend Juliet" (Jeremy's wife), but Juliet's account was private when I clicked on it. Not sure if it was already that way, or she closed it after the news of Victoria's death. She did seem to have a very positive experience with the kids, and I think only David came off as totally unredeemable/unlikeable for the entire episode. The other three adults were all more or less good sports about the whole thing, although I'm sure it's a terrible memory for them now.
ETA: Here are some of Jeremy's tweets about the situation. Basically, he says the Siegels are a real, loving family, he and Juliet both got to know Victoria, and that she was a "beautiful soul… in obvious pain."
https://twitter.com/SirJeremyLondon/status/607654980779048961
https://twitter.com/SirJeremyLondon/status/607961379761356800
https://twitter.com/SirJeremyLondon/status/607961379761356800
https://twitter.com/SirJeremyLondon/status/607962900129579008
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Season 10 Chat
in Keeping Up With The Kardashians
I don't think it's Aspergers at all. Kourtney seems fully aware of social cues; she just chooses to respond to them in a droll way. She used to be more animated, but I think being a parent has mellowed her out, and being associated with the Kardashians has made her more reserved and sarcastic. She doesn't have any other classic Aspie traits like a fixation with mechanical or technical things, or a problem with eye contact. I think she's just laid back with very dry sense of humor, and often annoyed by her screechy mother and sisters.