S03.E15: Pretense

[shapeshifter]

From Wikipedia:

Skaara/Klorel crash lands on the Tollans' new homeworld Tollana and the Tollan invite SG-1 to represent Skaara in a trial to decide whether Skaara or Klorel has the right to use Skaara's body. Skaara wins. Lya of the Nox and SG-1 prevent a Goa'uld attack on Tollana.

I happened to catch most of this episode Sunday night on a WGN affiliate. In the end, as we all predicted, Skaara wins and the Goa'uld Klorel is last seen being shipped off in an aquarium-type container.

Wouldn't Lord Zipacna,* the the Goa'uld who represented Klorel at trial, also have had a human enslaved in his body? Wouldn't that person and all the original owners of the bodies inhabited by Goa'ulds have legal rights to their bodies after the precedent set in this trial? And, if Tolan law didn't work that way, shouldn't Daniel or someone have at least asked the question at some point? Does it ever come up in a later episode featuring the Tollan?

*Gotta hand it to the writers for coming up with an endless array of unique names that still managed to sound like they were of the same linguistic root.

[Joe]

You mean this Zipacna?

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, they did just hit a variety of mythologies for the names, shapeshifter, but I did appreciate that they hit the mythological figures of a lot of different cultures. 

 

No, I don't think the right-to-the-body thing comes up again, but that sort of makes sense.

The Tollan pretty steadfastly refused to interfere with other cultures and had taken a sort of xenophobic or isolationist's stance on all matters not-directly-Tollan.  Ska'raa/Klor'el came to be in their custody via an accident, so they felt they had a reason to act.  I'm sure Zippy and company were supposed to be granted amnesty despite their shenanigans while there.  

 

But the entire "who has the right to the body" thing has always been one of those things that was a little bit o an eye-roll in terms of a serious question.  Let's see, should the person who was captured, kidnapped, violated and enslaved solely because they were unable to fight with enough force to keep dominion over their own body have the right to keep it? Or should the enslaving, kidnapping, violating thing have the right? 

 

There just wasn't really much of a real question there.

However, I'm not surprised it didn't come up again

, the Tollan had the technology to remove the Gou'ald, but they also were dead-set against interfering on the matters of other races they deemed inferior, which was going to be pretty much anyone unfortunate enough to be taken as a host, because that was the thing the Gou'ald preyed up; inability to defend themselves.  

 

Also, the Gou'ald went ahead and essentially conquered them upon finding out which way that determination would shake out, because the next time we see the Tollan, it is heavily implied that a) the Tollan were completely wiped out by the Gou'ald b) but not before making a serious effort to throw those (deemed by the Tollan to be) lesser races under the intergalactic public transportation.

Edited May 27, 2014 by stillshimpy

[random chance]

I think we're not supposed to talk about future plot points on the rewatches, but I could be wrong.

[Lisin]

@random chance is correct, I'd like it if you guys would spoiler anything after the episode in question. This only goes for episode threads, for the General Discussion threads or Character threads etc. all bets are off but within specific episode threads anything that happens after that episode plot point wise should be tagged. Thanks! 

[stillshimpy]

Okay, I was super vague, but I spoiler tagged anything that is upcoming as opposed to in this episode :-) 

[shapeshifter]

Thanks, @stillshimpy, if they had handled it that way today, Twitter would likely blow up about it. It's no different than

dropping the use of zats because of their ability to make stuff disappear was too much of a deus ex machina (see http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Zat'nik'tel ).

I haven't seen Pretense more than once all the way through, unlike, say, 1969.

[stillshimpy]

I haven't seen Pretense more than once all the way through, unlike, say, 1969.

 

I'm with you there, shapeshifter.  I've actually seen it more than once, simply because I really do like Skar'aa and it's sort of fun on a lot of levels to see the team win one with something other than might, but still, I get frustrated with the super condescending Tollan and also with the Knox in this.  

 

The whole "this is even a serious question? If that's what counts as being evolved and advanced, I'm glad I'm a primitive ass, because ye gods and little fishes, I have no trouble figuring out who has the 'right to a body' and I don't consider it particularly advanced to claim that only someone who can adequately fight off violation has the right to dominion over their own person! The fuck?"  

 

So that's yet another stumbling block in the episode for me.  Plus, I am one of the few people who does not enjoy Zippy.  I like the actor, I've seen him in a fair few things, but he wasn't quite right to be playing the god he was impersonating and yes, I really do mean "It's a little bit offensive to the culture that you cast a giant white dude to play this guy, what the hell is that?"  

 

But poor SG1 occasionally struggled with budget vs. the diversity available via the local acting pool.  This was one of those times. I know that they pretty much had to choose one or the other, as Zipacna was meant to be HUGE, but he's also Mayan and I think if they had to err on the side of fudging a detail, maybe size would have been the thing best sacrificed?  Or not.   I realize the Gou'ald were impersonating figures from Mythology, but dude, if you can't cast the part with anything other than a giant white dude, maybe pick a different mythological figure?  Maybe?

It's the same thing those incredibly fair Canadians in Touchstone being dressed like they all hailed from Hawaii.

Maybe make a different costuming choice if you're just going to end up making it look like a Frat or Sorority had yet another ill-advised theme party?

 

They never did stop using the Zats, they just stopped ever referencing "two shots will kill, three will dematerialize"  and there were plenty of times team members took too blast.  They just forever after ignored the "third blast will disintegrate  nonsense, likely because someone pointed out "okay, so there's this thing called matter and...you know what?  Skip it.  Bad science, bad idea.  Moving on! Use with impunity!

Edited May 29, 2014 by stillshimpy

[shapeshifter]

...It's a little bit offensive to the culture that you cast a giant white dude to play this guy, what the hell is that?"

...Maybe make a different costuming choice if you're just going to end up making it look like a Frat or Sorority had yet another ill-advised theme party?

LOL.

While I do think the Canadian gene pool for actors is pretty white, especially for those of large, imposing stature, it's possible that the choice to use big white dudes might have been partially due to an effort to be politically correct in that they didn't want the evil doers to be all non-white. Apophis was a person of color--but that might have just been owing to the original casting in the movie; the show did an excellent job of casting the main players to look like the originals.

It's interesting that a large number of the Jaffa were persons of color.

Back to the episode: Even though the viewers are made to feel the WTFery of these supposedly advanced beings (Tollan and Nox) even considering that Ska'raa might not be entitled to his body, I think the show was pretty unique in presenting a universally unacceptable opinion in a balanced way--kind of like Star Trek's interracial kiss was unique at the time. But, then they kind of backed away from the idea of the Goa'uld's opinions of humans being worthy of consideration when they got around to the episode title's point: That the Goa'ulds cool rationality was a "pretense" for their planned attack.

Edited May 29, 2014 by shapeshifter

[John Potts]

I'm not so sure if "Goa'uld or host?" was a completely unreasonable question: put it this way, is it acceptable to raise a species in captivity and then kill it purely for your own advantage? If you're a vegetarian, you can honestly answer no, but most people are content to do so every day (or at least most days). To the Goa'uld, they are the superior species and we are just cattle - IIRC, that was pretty much Zipacna's argument. It's pure humanocentric thinking to assume we must be in the right because we're* the ones being exploited.

 

As for why Zippy didn't face the same trial because he presumably travelled there under some form of diplomatic immunity. He presumably wouldn't have shown up if they hadn't come to some sort of arrangement beforehand that he wouldn't himself face trial.

 

* At least I assume everyone reading this is a human!