S04.E07: Mockingbird

[CletusMusashi]

I'm a little confused. Ned screwed up a lot of things, but how was he responsible for Jon Arryn's death?

[Drogo]

Tully women seem to have a trait for blaming the innocent. Catelynn directed all her hate and anguish towards Jon Snow instead of Ned  himself.

 

Heh. Well, while the sisters catch up in the afterlife, Ned and Jon Arryn can commiserate with each other... ;D

Jon Arryn is the only one with reason to complain. Ned created the situation with Jon, he was no victim there, only Jon was.

 

 

I'm a little confused. Ned screwed up a lot of things, but how was he responsible for Jon Arryn's death?

 

Cletus I was thrown by this too, but on reread it appears the post was blaming Ned for creating the situation with Jon Snow (and Catelyn- presumably by bringing home a bastard)- not Jon Arryn.  

[Lady S.]

I'm a little confused. Ned screwed up a lot of things, but how was he responsible for Jon Arryn's death?

Well, in a different world not ruled by strength and duty, Littlefinger would marry Catelyn and wouldn't look twice at Lysa. No, sorry, I did mean the Jon Snow sitch since that was the reason the elder Tully sister's name was brought up. And not to discount the psychological effects on Jon of Cat's dirty looks, but to me active confrontations like Lysa/Sansa's qualifies more as taking out all your hatred on someone. As far as we know, Jon Arryn was pretty much innocent as a husband and had the bad luck of suffering for not being Petyr Baelish, that's hardly comparable to one of the only loving marriages on the show. If Ned really held Cat's dirty looks against her, imo he did a great job of hiding that resentment while he was still among the living.

 

ETA: Forgive my idiocy, I just figured out the problem with not using Jon Snow's full name when also mentioning his (presumed) namesake Jon Arryn. Nothing to see here, folks.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Lady S.

[CletusMusashi]

Poor Ned. just when I think I've heard every single damning argument against him, there's still more.

I guess my take on it that he was okay, in theory, with people shipping their kids around, but he personally was too determined to be a perfect hands-on parent for that option to ever seriously cross his mind for long. Doesn't make his choice right or wrong, just understandable.

Back on episode topic: Was anybody else kind of hoping that Hot Pie would join up with Brienne and Podrick to form a perfect comedy trio? Seven gods! You could fill a whole episode with just the three of them bickering about how to cook a rabbit.

[TooMuchCoffee]

I believe that Ned's keeping Jon Snow instead of fostering him out supports the various speculation about his (Jon's) parentage. That is, Ned might not be his father and the truth is so potentially dangerous that even Cat couldn't know. 

Anything further probably belongs in the speculation thread.

[Lady S.]

I believe that Ned's keeping Jon Snow instead of fostering him out supports the various speculation about his (Jon's) parentage. That is, Ned might not be his father and the truth is so potentially dangerous that even Cat couldn't know. 

Anything further probably belongs in the speculation thread.

Yeah, that's the thinking I subscribe to, but Jon Snow and Catelyn and most everyone else believe Ned is Jon's father because, he's an honest man and most men, in normal circumstances, would only lie about paternity to say a kid wasn't their bastard.

 

Anyways, more on topic:

Kind of a big deal for someone who's seen a dude come back from the dead thanks to the Lord of Light!

Apparently only people like Selyse find R'hllor easy to believe in even before seeing "the Lord's" visions in the flames. Stannis had to be shown a vision in the flames after Blackwater, and Davos watched Mel survive a poisoning and birth a shadow assasin and still told Stannis gods were a made-up notion.

[Ace]

 

Apparently only people like Selyse find R'hllor easy to believe in even before seeing "the Lord's" visions in the flames. Stannis had to be shown a vision in the flames after Blackwater, and Davos watched Mel survive a poisoning and birth a shadow assasin and still told Stannis gods were a made-up notion.

 

These things can be explained by magic or sorcery. Davos knows he's in a world with magic and sorcery so anything extraordinary he sensibly labels as magic. 

[Starchild]

He should be around Cersei and Jamie's age.   Cersei was offering to show the other kids the "monster baby", then took them into Tyrion's nursery.

 

Didn't he say he was nine at the time?

[Drogo]

Prince Oberyn: "The whole way from Dorne, all anyone could talk about was the monster that had been born to Tywin Lannister. A head twice the size of his body, a tail between his legs, claws, one red eye, privates of both the girl and the boy...When we met your sister, she promised she would show you to us. Every day, we would ask. Every day, she would say, 'Soon.' Then she and your brother took us to your nursery. And she unveiled the freak. Your head was a bit large, your arms and legs were a bit small, but no claw, no red eye, no tail in between your legs. Just a tiny pink cock. We tried to hide our disappointment: 'That's not a monster,' I told Cersei. 'That's just a baby.' And she said, 'He killed my mother,' and she pinched your little cock so hard, I thought she might pull it off, until your brother made her stop. 'It doesn't matter,' she told us, 'Everyone says that he will die soon. I hope they are right. He should not have lived this long.'"

[Hecate7]

The Hound's tale was an interesting parallel to Oberyn's story about Cersei, and it was a really great contrast to Arya's story. She might not have her family with her right now, but they have always been loving and supportive (I'll leave Sansa's "I don't know" about Joffrey vs the butcher's boy out of this) but the Hound has been alone his whole life. Tyrion has been somewhere in the middle. His family name and wealth have afforded him great privilege because they could not publicly abandon him but now that they have the opportunity to rid themselves of him, his father and sister can't put the wheels in motion fast enough.

Tyrion and the Hound are in the same boat, really. The Hound has lived off being a Clegane, being a member of a family of favorite Lannister bannermen. That opened the door to the jobs he'd have all his life, and the custom made armor he needed, and all the training he's had. Until he said "fuck the King," he was living on his family name the same way Tyrion lives on his.

 

Sansa and Arya have a mild rivalry but neither of them would ever have mutilated the other's genitals or burned the other's face off, and both enjoyed love and protection from their parents on a level Tyrion and the Hound could never, ever dream of.