Evil Genius - General Discussion

[Pindrop]

A new four part documentary on Netflix. It is overlong and doesn't come up with many surprises but it is still an intriguing and compelling case. Worth a watch. 

[Guest]

Absolutely fascinating case and really compelling docu-series. I just finished the third installment and will watch the last in a few. What surprised me most was that Geraldo actually was doing so real investigating and that the feds seemed completely inept in their investigation.

I remember reading this story in Wired when it was first published so, while there isn't much new here, seeing Marjorie in action is 100% creepy. That she continued to attract men, even in her most lunatic state, is so far out of the realm of my understanding of human nature I can't even put in in words. And how do all this psychos happen upon each other? Bill Rothstein was a complete maniac just like Marjorie and that Barnes fellow.

ETA: I quickly skimmed that Wired article again; it seems like the one retired fed thinks Rothstein was the actual mastermind of the plot. I'm inclined to believe him. While Marjorie was most definitely a double-, likely triple-murderer, I'm not so sure she'd have the wherewithal to devise the whole scavenger-hunt idea. She was a cut-and-dry killer—shoot them and she was done.

[Pindrop]

Marjorie is a classic psychopath; she exhibits all the traits. I think it may be in Part 4 where some of the FBI's apparent incompetence is explained (state Police withholding information), but even taking this into account they were spectacularly inept at locating and questioning potential witnesses. I won't say more as it will encroach into spoiler territory. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pindrop

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Pindrop said:

I think it may be in Part 4 where some of the FBI's apparent incompetence is explained (state Police withholding information)

That was definitely part 3 -- the state shoved the one inmate's copious notes into a drawer in a file folder titled, "Snitch Letters" then forgot about them. And didn't the feds at some point early on dismiss Marjorie, Rothstein, et al as suspects? (That might have been in part 2?) Both agents interviewed seemed incredibly professional and smart—but they really dropped the ball.

[Guest]

Ugh. Just finished the series but I feel more confused about the reasons for the crime than before. Both Marjorie and Rothstein needed $250,000 a piece—she wanted the 250 to give to Barnes to kill her father and Rothstein wanted the 250 to settle the estate. Why not ask for $500,000? Now, I can get why Rothstein wanted the money but Marjorie? She could have easily killed her father like she did the three other men she murdered. Maybe it's conceivable Rothstein was the so-called "mastermind," but had a healthy assist from his psychotic girlfriend. 

And then there's the robbery. Did they really want a robbery at all? Why put a bomb collar on the guy who's delivering you your money? Why give him all these ridiculous post-robbery tasks when they have had to have known (seeing how "intelligent" they all claimed to be) that the cops would immediately be on the lookout for a guy wearing a gigantic bomb collar who just robbed a bank and was now driving around the same area looking to complete a series of nearly impossible tasks? It just makes no sense to me—and I don't have five post-graduate degrees. I feel there's a huge backstory here that's been completely unmined but, given the circumstances, no one will now ever know. 

And I absolutely believe Jessica Hoopsick. Marjorie was clever enough to keep repeating that Brian was a "co-conspirator" so she wouldn't be eligible for the death penalty during one of those last conversations with Trey. As long as he was identified as such, no murder charges could ever be brought. Apparently, the feds aren't very interested in pursuing Jessica's story though which leaves her off the hook—and Brian Wells will forever not be recognized as the victim he was but instead as a criminal that the government and Marjorie made him out to be. That's just adds another layer of tragedy for his whole family.

Still baffled by the other pizza shop worker's death, too. The filmmakers didn't go out of their way to clear up his involvement, if any.

[Pindrop]

I felt the same, I just could not wrap my head around it. I think the money must have been secondary to the game/rush for both of them, because it was a bloody awful plan if the primary purpose was to obtain $250k. Like you, I think Rothstein is the - erm - "genius", and Marjorie was along for shits and giggles. 

Spoiler

I also absolutely believe Jessica Hoopstick, and think it is a damned shame the pizza guy has been named a co-conspirator, rather than a victim, mainly due to incompetence during the investigation. Even if she was lying and he was coerced into conspiring, he was clearly mentally deficient, and he is still a victim. 

Also, on the subject of the FBI, I got the impression from the dark-haired guy that he was a little green, a little too nice and a little too lassez-faire. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Pindrop

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pindrop said:

Also, on the subject of the FBI, I got the impression from the dark-haired guy that he was a little green, a little too nice and a little too lassez-faire. 

Right? I laughed out loud (not in a good way) when he likened his prison visit to Marjorie like he was Clarice Starling walking down the hall to visit Hannibal Lecter. Really, sir? 

As for Jessica, I was a little annoyed by how little screen time they devoted to her interview given the importance of what she was saying. There was a bunch of backstory she could have filled in—and yet, nothing. 

Spoiler

I feel sorry for the baby Jessica had with, allegedly, Brian Wells. That poor child. Jessica is a mess and his father, well, yeah. 

As a viewer of Hoarders, I wasn't surprised in the least that all three of the main murderers were hoarders -- Rothstein, Marjorie, and Barnes. All of the hoarders I'd ever seen on that show shared the same narcissistic qualities as those three. (Barnes being the lesser of the three since he was just some garden-variety drug addict/loser.) 

OH! And I can't believe they feds let the child rapist (forget his name) off with zero prison time. What a scumbag he was. 

[Steph J]

Just finished watching this last night. Although the story is interesting, I found the series a bit poorly paced (every episode there came a point where I was sure it was almost over - because it felt that it should be over - only to find that there were still about five minutes left), and I'm really curious about what information got left out. For example, I'm really confused about why the authorities think Brian Wells was a co-conspirator.  Even in Barnes' confession he describes Wells as being afraid and the rest of them having to manhandle him and force the collar/bomb onto him - that doesn't sound like a willing participant to me - but there must have been some compelling evidence in that respect (that didn't make it into the series) because otherwise it seems like the prosecution absolutely could have advanced a theory that Wells was forced into participation and convinced a jury of same.

[UsernameFatigue]

Hubby and I just finished watching this series - watched it over two days. We almost gave up half way through the series though as we thought it was dragging on, and moving way too slowly. My husband commented that he didn't think the title suited the show. He instead said it should have been called "How Do All the Stupid People End Up In One Place?". And he was referring to both the criminals and the police. This was a saying coined by one of his best friends who passed away recently. I also thought it was a better title that Evil Genius. 

Posters here have already commented on things I am wondering, including the other pizza worker's death. It never made sense to me that Brian would have been involved, as there would be no reason to have a real bomb if he was in on it - just tell everyone it is a real bomb. Also the scavenger hunt was ridiculous. Chances are Brian would have run out of time, the bomb would have gone off possibly ruining whatever money he did get. And why would Marjorie just not kill her father herself and cash in on what she thought was her inheritance? It doesn't sound like she knew that her father had written her out of his will. And what made these geniuses think that they could get $250,000 so easily? The poor guy died over a measly $8,000.

I wonder why Jessica didn't get DNA from Brian's family members if she really cared to know if her kid's father was Brian? She really should be in jail for setting the poor guy up.

All I could think of while watching this series was that it was like a Coen Brothers dark comedy like Fargo. The criminals were evil, but not a genius in the bunch as far as I can see. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Pindrop]

6 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

it should have been called "How Do All the Stupid People End Up In One Place?". And he was referring to both the criminals and the police. *snip*

A far more apt title. 

[Pindrop]

On 19/05/2018 at 2:23 AM, Steph J said:

Just finished watching this last night. Although the story is interesting, I found the series a bit poorly paced (every episode there came a point where I was sure it was almost over - because it felt that it should be over - only to find that there were still about five minutes left), and I'm really curious about what information got left out. *snip*

 

On 15/05/2018 at 6:14 PM, Giant Misfit said:

As for Jessica, I was a little annoyed by how little screen time they devoted to her interview given the importance of what she was saying. There was a bunch of backstory she could have filled in—and yet, nothing. *snip*

Yes, I had the feeling the film-maker was cherry-picking, and it started to irritate me. The entire structure of the mini-series felt manipulative, and seemed to be tailored towards shoring up the results of the film-maker's investigations, rather than providing a balanced picture. 

[LDHW]

As a follow-up to "Evil Genius', a must-watch is ID's "Price of Duty" (Jerry Clark epi).  I felt for this man and of course the Wells Family.  There are surprising  and shocking new details that are revealed about the case.  Also, he explains why and how the investigation went as it did.

For me, this is a more thorough look at the case than "Evil Genius," which I liked, but "Price of Duty" fills in the gaps.

Edited June 23, 2018 by LDHW

[AuntiePam]

On 6/22/2018 at 7:08 PM, LDHW said:

As a follow-up to "Evil Genius', a must-watch is ID's "Price of Duty" (Jerry Clark epi).  I felt for this man and of course the Wells Family.  There are surprising  and shocking new details that are revealed about the case.  Also, he explains why and how the investigation went as it did.

For me, this is a more thorough look at the case than "Evil Genius," which I liked, but "Price of Duty" fills in the gaps.

I must have missed something, because I watched this last night (Amazon has it for $2.99) and the only new item I picked up was Wells' landlady saying that Wells had said "I might have to rob a bank".  It wasn't clear when Wells said this, but if the timing was right, he could have meant that he'd need money because his girlfriend (Jessica Hoopsick) was pregnant. 

As everyone else has noted, the robbery itself made no sense -- none of it.  Maybe it can be put down to "mean crazy people do mean crazy shit". 

[LDHW]

5 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I must have missed something, because I watched this last night (Amazon has it for $2.99) and the only new item I picked up was Wells' landlady saying that Wells had said "I might have to rob a bank".  It wasn't clear when Wells said this, but if the timing was right, he could have meant that he'd need money because his girlfriend (Jessica Hoopsick) was pregnant. 

As everyone else has noted, the robbery itself made no sense -- none of it.  Maybe it can be put down to "mean crazy people do mean crazy shit". 

Yes, the landlady's comment plus the dead husbands/boyfriends in Marjorie's past.  If memory serves me correct, there was a suspicious "suicide" and "accidental fall"...then she shot and killed another and got off Scott free claiming battered wife syndrome.  All this prior to Wells.  Her father pretty much disowned her and no one claimed her body at her death.  I find that fitting for someone that personified evil on an epic scale.

[AuntiePam]

Yeah, Marjorie was definitely a bad apple.  But Rothstein survived her -- that's surprising.

I wonder if Rothstein set most of it up to impress Marjorie, sorta like John Hinckley, who shot Reagan to impress Jodie Foster.  Diehl would have been impressed that someone went to all that trouble, just for her entertainment. 

[Amarsir]

I watched this 3 years behind the curve so  I know no one will ever see my comment. But I'm OK with that.

I don't believe Wells was innocent. He was likely the dimmest of this "genius" collection of 40-watt light bulbs. But this couldn't have 100% been against his will:

• He was very calm in the bank. If he thought the bomb was fake and would be his get-out-of-trouble excuse, it makes sense.  If he thought it was real, it doesn't. (And if he thought it was fake and wasn't in on it, why play along at all?)
• He lied about who did it. A victim would want the perpetrators caught. Someone who might expect a cut hopes they get away with it.
• He had a functional (disguised) gun. Who arms their victim? What victim carries a gun into a bank?
• The witness to him leaving the planning meeting seems more reliable than the crack whore who may have given birth to his child and who avoided many earlier chances to talk.
• His coworker Robert Pinetti was involved. (And allegedly taken out via an intentionally lethal drug batch.) Why involve someone else who's so connected to the guy if he's just innocently following instructions? It only makes sense if he had some role in convincing and reassuring Wells.

But with Wells' family so adamant on clearing his name, I'm not surprised the documentary took an easier route.

Incidentally, the only way anyone involved in this case is an "Evil Genius" is if Rothstein knew the whole thing was doomed to fail and went through with it in a Breaking Bad kind of mood to see what trouble he could stir up for others before he died.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Amarsir