Season Ten: Goren and Eames Say Hello and Goodbye...Again!

[Maherjunkie]

Logan had that but had plenty of time to integrate it.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:19 PM, Maherjunkie said:

Logan had that but had plenty of time to integrate it.

Had what? Family drama?

And while I get the point that the Leight years were more "shock and awe", in a way, I think, just by virtue of having a parent with a psychotic illness, Goren's life would have been more chaotic than most. Maybe it was executed in a less than organic fashion, but we learned early on that the father that raised him was a gambler/remote, etc. And we knew about his mom from the beginning. So one could argue the seeds were planted for some story later on, dovetailing with Goren's job, no matter what. And I could understand his energy dimming, either by job burnout or just having the weight from said family, as it did. Maybe less catastrophically than Leight ended up designing it, but the mechanics didn't seem all that ridiculous to me because of those early hints.

Brady was a retcon. I can admit that all the way. But the rest was canon from S1. Leight just seemed to go all "go big or go home" with it all. As he did for years on SVU.

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Had what? Family drama?

And while I get the point that the Leight years were more "shock and awe", in a way, I think, just by virtue of having a parent with a psychotic illness, Goren's life would have been more chaotic than most. Maybe it was executed in a less than organic fashion, but we learned early on that the father that raised him was a gambler/remote, etc. And we knew about his mom from the beginning. So one could argue the seeds were planted for some story later on, dovetailing with Goren's job, no matter what. And I could understand his energy dimming, either by job burnout or just having the weight from said family, as it did. Maybe less catastrophically than Leight ended up designing it, but the mechanics didn't seem all that ridiculous to me because of those early hints.

Brady was a retcon. I can admit that all the way. But the rest was canon from S1. Leight just seemed to go all "go big or go home" with it all. As he did for years on SVU.

I agree that there was a definite basis in previous stories and established history. And I will remind everyone that there were external factors as well. There was desire for more personal drama from the network (even Original Recipe eventually gave in to this.) There were VDO's personal issues which affected things. Without speculating too much there was his well documented hospitalization for exhaustion which undoubtedly had something to do with his energy level, and I think other issues ended up in the scripts and performance as well. And with ratings dropping and looking for new plots there is always the tendency to try to shake things up with a big personal trauma for your charismatic lead. I think if you were to switch show runners I think we would have seen something similar in the middle years and a back to basics approach in Season 10.

[Maherjunkie]

Yes, family drama.  Logan's cunty mother died a long time ago.

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I agree that there was a definite basis in previous stories and established history. And I will remind everyone that there were external factors as well. There was desire for more personal drama from the network (even Original Recipe eventually gave in to this.) There were VDO's personal issues which affected things. Without speculating too much there was his well documented hospitalization for exhaustion which undoubtedly had something to do with his energy level, and I think other issues ended up in the scripts and performance as well. And with ratings dropping and looking for new plots there is always the tendency to try to shake things up with a big personal trauma for your charismatic lead. I think if you were to switch show runners I think we would have seen something similar in the middle years and a back to basics approach in Season 10.

I could understand VDO dealing with exhaustion. As much as SVU is basically about Benson now, at least that branch was originally designed as an ensemble. CI was modeled after Holmes and Watson, meaning Goren was in almost every scene. I'd think that would take a toll on any actor.

Still, yes, it was a double-edged sword since Goren (and Eames) did prove popular, with S9 basically giving validation to that, so I could see the show runner adding in personal stuff to freshen things up and allow VDO (and even KE, a bit) to to go outside the box.

To bring this back to S10, I think Chris Brancato, the EP that season, did a return to basics and I think it was executed in a decent fashion. I do sometimes wish we'd gotten a S11, just to see if it would have held. Funny enough, VDO said on Twitter a few months back when someone asked that he wouldn't mind revisiting Goren. Not that it'll happen, but since he is usually forthright, I assume he was sincere, so maybe the show wasn't all bad for him in the end.

And @Maherjunkie, I'll ask you since you're a Mike Logan expert. Hee. Are you sure Mama Logan is dead? All I recall about her was how Logan said how she used to be a bottomless pit of need (S1, "Indifference", Mothership) and that she'd hold a Rosary while beating the crap out of him. Either way, she sounded even worse than Goren's mother.

This whole franchise did seem to have huge mother issues... (Goren's, Benson's, Logan's)

[Maherjunkie]

I thought he made a comment that drinking eventually killed her but I could be mistaken.  I thought when he said "I've forgiven my mother" she was in the past tense but I could see how that is not absolute.  When he was asked about family, and said no, I took that as a further nail in the coffin.  I never thought about it until you asked but I still vote for dead.

[WendyCR72]

I do recall, in "Prescription for Death" all the way back in S1 of the Mothership, that Logan mentioned his dad having a heart transplant, too. So we know his dad was a cop with health issues. So it can at least be inferred that he was likely dead.

If his mom drank as much as Logan claimed, she probably could have died from complications from that.

I swear he once mentioned a brother on the Mothership. Nothing on CI about that, though.

[Maherjunkie]

I remember a cousin and a niece but I swear I don't remember a brother.  Tell me if you remember the ep.  There was also a  nephew.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/10/2017 at 11:01 PM, Maherjunkie said:

I remember a cousin and a niece but I swear I don't remember a brother.  Tell me if you remember the ep.  There was also a  nephew.

Maybe it wasn't a brother that threw me. Maybe it was the nephew. But, if that's the case, wouldn't Logan have a  sibling to have said nephew?

[Maherjunkie]

Yeah, but takes us full circle as to which it was.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:30 PM, Maherjunkie said:

Yeah, but takes us full circle as to which it was.

Well, Logan wouldn't be the first victim of a continuity glitch. I mean, Cragen did go from having a kid when on the Mothership to having said kid vaporize once he turned up on SVU six years later!

[Xeliou66]

It's funny because it was pretty clear Cragen didn't have kids when he was on L&O as a regular, we saw his wife and his house and no kids and never once did he mention kids but there was that one weird mention of a kid when in Season 5 when Cragen made the guest appearance, only to go back to his original story on SVU. I have a feeling the writer of the episode Cragen made the guest appearance on knew nothing about him. Probably the worst continuity error in L&O history IMO.

I never remember Logan mentioning any siblings, or even a nephew or niece, I just vaguely recall Logan mentioning a cousin I think, didn't he talk about taking a car for a joyride when he was younger with a cousin in one episode? 

[WendyCR72]

On 6/16/2017 at 11:22 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I never remember Logan mentioning any siblings, or even a nephew or niece, I just vaguely recall Logan mentioning a cousin I think, didn't he talk about taking a car for a joyride when he was younger with a cousin in one episode? 

Yeah, in "Renewal", the last episode of S6, when Logan's would-be girlfriend, Holly, killed herself. Still, as @Maherjunkie said, Logan once also mentioned a nephew, so it stands to reason if he had a nephew, he'd had to have had a sibling.

I guess familial continuity wasn't the franchise's strong suit. Although Goren's did seem to hold up. Maybe that was an aberration.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

WE is showing S10 tonight with "Rispetto" now. One scene that was just on that, despite my liking the show, always kind of perplexed me. After G/E talk to the Yasmine chick who recognized Sarah Bell at Nile Brite's party, they go and confront Nile. Well, as you know, Goren asks about other creative outlets that Nile has, which brought up the clarinet that Sarah had.

I never got how Goren figured out from just that that Sarah was Nile's child and not his lover. Oh, well.

[WendyCR72]

/and, just like in "Last Street In Manhattan" (ironically airing next) where the victim dies at night but G/E get there in broad daylight. Hee. So the victim lay dead on a cab all night?

Edited June 22, 2017 by WendyCR72

[WendyCR72]

Happy New Year!

Last night, after the celebrating, I watched "Icarus" to relax and unwind by. And I never really noticed, until then, how gleeful Kathryn Erbe played the scene at the victim's memorial (outside with the singers, etc.). After Amanda Rollins (no, not the cop, the Broadway producer!), had her drunken meltdown, Alex smiles and almost gushes, "They should have sold tickets to this!"

I always knew the scene but never watched KE's face/expressions all that closely. LOL. I guess Alex enjoys a good train wreck!

[WendyCR72]

So WE is finally off S9 and started S10 in late night. And "Rispetto" had the scene where Nile Brite asks the young hooker if her father knew she was a whore left in. Yet sometimes, it isn't shown even in late night. The editing is so arbitrary...

[WendyCR72]

Discuss the final season's episodes here!

[TakomaSnark]

Thank you @WendyCR72 for recreating the season threads. CI used to be my third favorite of the franchise but rewatches and discussions here have it firmly at #2, behind the mothership (and way ahead of SVU). Much appreciated for the continuing discussions!

Edited January 10 by TakomaSnark

[Xeliou66]

I’m so glad Goren/Eames came back for a final sendoff after the absolute dog shit way they were written off in season 9. Who the fuck thought that was a satisfying ending for two awesome characters? It was great that they came back and got a satisfying send off, and that Goren got his mojo back and showed the liveliness he had in earlier seasons instead of carrying around a ton of baggage like he had in the last couple of seasons.

[WendyCR72]

Thanks, @TakomaSnark, but I deserve zero credit here. The developers reinstating forums are the ones that made this happen.

[Shadow Lass]

"Last Street in Manhattan" is still my sentimental favorite in Season 10.

[TakomaSnark]

14 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

"Last Street in Manhattan" is still my sentimental favorite in Season 10.

Love that one. Great showcase for Erbe.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Shadow Lass said:

"Last Street in Manhattan" is still my sentimental favorite in Season 10.

Yep, mine too.

[Shadow Lass]

Watching "The Consoler" with the creepy Monsignor now.

Another "Eames gives Goren a look that would kill" episode after he disses Joe Hannah.

Edited March 10 by Shadow Lass

[Xeliou66]

48 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

Watching "The Consoler" with the creepy Monsignor now.

Another "Eames gives Goren a look that would kill" episode after he disses Joe Hannah.

I just watched it as well, it’s a great episode. I liked the complex plot of how each suspect had something to hide. The Monsignor was a creep, and hopefully he lost his position after it came out he was blackmailing women into sex, it looked like he was in major trouble with his superior the cardinal. I liked when Eames called him slime. I loved how Goren figured everything out and his interrogation of Johnny at the end was great. I didn’t feel sympathy for Johnny, yes his backstory was tragic but he murdered Theresa out of greed because it was about to come out that Theresa helped him steal the money. I didn’t buy his crying that he didn’t want to kill her and didn’t mean to kill her, he planned it out carefully so that the death would look like a suicide, I think he was just upset he got caught. 
This really felt like classic CI with a strong intricate case and good detective work from Goren/Eames. It was interesting when Goren casually told Hannah “don’t be a moron” and Hannah reprimanded him.