Conspiracy Theories: What Lies At The Heart Of Westworld?

[arc]

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

So, could Peter Abernathy's cultist leader role have been slightly modified to create Wyatt? I think it's relatively plausible. Which means that when we finally catch up to Wyatt, the android playing him may be none other then Dolores' original father. One last thing- if Wyat's original incarnation was Peter Abernath's former incarnation as the evil cultist professor, what got him to be the way he is? 

I don't think Original Abernathy will play Wyatt. For one, didn't we see Wyatt's face in Teddy's implanted flashbacks? For another, the Original Abernathy host was decommissioned, something that all the park executive staff (Theresa, Bernard, Ashley, Ford) know about. Ford has the power to un-decommission him, of course, but it seems unlikely.

Also, there is no "Wyatt's original incarnation". Wyatt is brand new to the park, as said by MIB in ep 5.

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

One last point about Armistice. There was some interesting information revealed about her that may tie her to the cultists in Episode 3's "The Stray". I think what they may both have in common is the whole "bicameral mind", hearing voices (which, ofcourse, is something that Dolores also hears). Here's the dialogue in question:

[...]

A few takeaways- Look at how Ford words some of his final lines here: "I don't think understand what this place was going to be". 

Forgive me, but I don't get the connection to Armistice here? Does she hear voices?

Quote

It also brings up yet another issue- what do the robots need to keep operational? Is that ubiquitous milk involved? Perhaps that is the best way, but perhaps blood transfusions would be a way if you couldn't access the milk- perhaps that's why the cultists in the desert turned cannibal- no longer part of the "program" if you will, they were no longer able to get the milk, so they turned to the only other way they could survive, via blood transfusions.

I kinda doubt they need anything. The hosts in "cold storage" don't even need cooling; in the pilot Ashley said cooling had been broken for weeks. But they have incinerators for hosts beyond repair, so presumably the non-incinerated hosts can be used again. But! They're just standing in a big room. They don't move, they don't eat or drink or digest.

Edited November 2, 2016 by arc

[Gobi]

OK, how about this? We know that operations, etc. is underground. It is, in fact, in Deep 13, and the ones in charge are Dr. Clayton Forrester (often referred to as Dr. F) and TV'S Frank. The stray was  hijacked by Joel (or Mike) and the bots in order to beam them up something worth watching, as a break from the terrible movies that is their regular fare.

What do you think, sirs?

[okerry]

25 minutes ago, Gobi said:

OK, how about this? We know that operations, etc. is underground. It is, in fact, in Deep 13, and the ones in charge are Dr. Clayton Forrester (often referred to as Dr. F) and TV'S Frank. The stray was  hijacked by Joel (or Mike) and the bots in order to beam them up something worth watching, as a break from the terrible movies that is their regular fare.

What do you think, sirs?

lol I'm sure they'd much rather watch Westworld, too!

[arc]

Here's a fan wiki with a screenshot of Wyatt: http://westworld.wikia.com/wiki/Wyatt and they've identified who was playing him too: Sorin Brouwers.

[phoenyx]

19 hours ago, arc said:

On 11/2/2016 at 8:26 AM, phoenyx said:

So, could Peter Abernathy's cultist leader role have been slightly modified to create Wyatt? I think it's relatively plausible. Which means that when we finally catch up to Wyatt, the android playing him may be none other then Dolores' original father. One last thing- if Wyat's original incarnation was Peter Abernath's former incarnation as the evil cultist professor, what got him to be the way he is? One thing I've also been thinking about- could Armistice have formerly been Maeve's daughter? I came up with that because she talks about having had her mother killed and having to smear her mother's blood on her to pretend to be dead. In one flashback Maeve has, she's with her daughter and what look like people out to get them are about to fall on them. 

I don't think Original Abernathy will play Wyatt. For one, didn't we see Wyatt's face in Teddy's implanted flashbacks?

Very good point, I'd forgotten about that.

[phoenyx]

19 hours ago, arc said:

On 11/2/2016 at 8:26 AM, phoenyx said:

So, could Peter Abernathy's cultist leader role have been slightly modified to create Wyatt? I think it's relatively plausible. Which means that when we finally catch up to Wyatt, the android playing him may be none other then Dolores' original father. One last thing- if Wyat's original incarnation was Peter Abernath's former incarnation as the evil cultist professor, what got him to be the way he is?

...there is no "Wyatt's original incarnation". Wyatt is brand new to the park, as said by MIB in ep 5.

Yes, Ford basically said something similar. He's also the first person to have said anything about Wyatt, and seems to have been the person who created him, but there's an asterisk on Ford creating him, which I'll point out. Here's Ford's first mention of Wyatt while speaking to Teddy in Episode 3 (The Stray):

**

Ford: "The coward dies a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once." Of course, Shakespeare never met a man quite like you, Teddy. You've died ... at least a thousand times. And yet, it doesn't dull your courage. Tell me, is that all you aspire to, Teddy?

Teddy: There's a girl ... Dolores -- better than I deserve. But maybe ... someday soon ... we'll have the life we've both been dreaming of.

Ford: No ... you never will. Your job is not to protect Dolores, it's to keep her here -- to ensure that the guests find her if they want to best the stalwart gunslinger ... and have their way with this girl. Tell me, has it never occurred to you to run off with her?

Teddy: I got some reckoning to do before I can be with her.

Ford: Ah, yes, your mysterious backstory. It's the reason for my visit. Do you know why it is a mystery, Teddy? Because we never actually bothered to give you one, just a formless guilt you will never atone for. But perhaps it is time you had a ... worthy story of origin. Would you like that, Teddy? -- a small part of my new narrative? A fiction which, like all great stories, is rooted in truth? It starts in a time of war -- a world in flames ... with a villain called ... Wyatt.

Teddy: Wyatt. Who's Wyatt?

Ford:Do you remember now, Teddy? (Ford presses the upload key on his tablet and uploads Teddy's "host narrative". Flashes of a man wearing a Union Army uniform shooting people in town cross Teddy's mind as he recounts his knowledge of Wyatt. )

Teddy: Yeah, of course I remember Wyatt. You look upon the face of true evil, you ain't liable to forget. He claimed he could hear the voice of God. It started down near Escalante. Army was sent to put down the natives -- bad business. Wyatt was a sergeant, went missing while out on some maneuvers ... and came back a few weeks later ... with some pretty strange ideas.

**

Source: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3722495&postcount=4

I've highlighted the sentence above which I'm focusing on: "A fiction which, like all great stories, is rooted in truth". So who is the real character that Wyatt's character is based upon? Could it have been Peter as a cult leader? Or perhaps Arnold (or Arnold through Peter, or even Dolores). Something to think about.

Edited November 3, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

20 hours ago, arc said:

On 11/2/2016 at 8:42 AM, phoenyx said:

One last point about Armistice. There was some interesting information revealed about her that may tie her to the cultists in Episode 3's "The Stray". I think what they may both have in common is the whole "bicameral mind", hearing voices (which, ofcourse, is something that Dolores also hears). Here's the dialogue in question:

[...]

A few takeaways- Look at how Ford words some of his final lines here: "I don't think he understood what this place was going to be".

Forgive me, but I don't get the connection to Armistice here? Does she hear voices?

I think she was. The creators of Westworld don't outright say it, but I think it's the most plausible explanation for a certain scene in Episode 3's "The Stray". Going back to the transcript of said episode, but I'll highlight the interesting parts this time:

**

Ford: Those early years were glorious. No guests, no board meetings, just pure creation. Our hosts began to pass the Turing test after the first year. But that wasn't enough for Arnold. He--he wasn't interested in the appearance of intellect or wit. He wanted the real thing. He wanted to create consciousness. He imagined it as a pyramid. (Ford turns to the chalkboard and draws a pyramid with four horizontal divisions and labels them from bottom to top.) See? Memory ... improvisation ... self-interest -- 

Bernard: And at the top?

Ford: Never got there. But he had a notion of what it might be. He based it on a theory of consciousness called the Bicameral Mind.

Bernard: The idea that primitive man believed his thoughts to be the voice of the gods. I thought it was debunked.

Ford: As a theory for understanding the human mind, perhaps, but not as a blueprint for building an artificial one. See, Arnold built a version of that cognition in which the hosts heard their programming as an inner monologue ... with the hopes that in time, their own voice would take over. It was a way bootstrap consciousness. (Ford sits down behind his desk.) But Arnold hadn't considered two things. One, that in this place, the last thing you want the hosts to be is conscious, and two, the other group who considered their thoughts to be the voices of the gods.

Bernard (soft laugh): Lunatics.

Ford: Indeed. (Another scene from "those early years" flashes -- Armistice is seated, talking to a technician. Her hair is disheveled. She has deep scratches on her face and upper torso just below the neck. She stops talking and looks directly into the camera.) We abandoned the approach. The only vestiges that remain are the voice commands we use to control them. (Ford stands back up.) But, for all his brilliance, I don't think Arnold understood what this place was going to be. You see, the guests enjoy power. They cannot indulge it in the outside world, so they come here. As for the hosts -- the least we can do is ... make them forget.

Bernard: But ... some of them are remembering -- accessing fragments of Arnold's code. If I may ask, what happened to him?

**

Source: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3722495&postcount=4

Notice how the -only- android who we see in a flashback while Ford is talking about androids hearing voices is Armistice talking with her hair dishevelled? I don't think it's a coincidence.

Edited November 3, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

Just found a youtuber that's got some really good videos detailing various Westworld theories. For this thread, I think his video "What is the Maze?" is really good, please let me know what you think, and whether or not you agree/disagree with any of his ideas (I think I basically agree with him)...

[phoenyx]

Here's another video from HaxDogma that I think many here would find interesting. It focuses on Felix and Maeve, but the core material is actually talking about what happens when an underprivileged class becomes fully aware of it and that they can change it. That and other things, everyone can take what they will from it ;-)... 

[spottedreptile]

On 04/11/2016 at 0:48 AM, phoenyx said:

They cannot indulge it in the outside world,

What sort of world do the guests come from? I'm getting more and more intrigued. It seems like everything has been 'solved', the world made good etc, but Felix and Sylvester are afraid of losing their jobs, and nobody has any power in the real world. Except I guess if you're someone like TMiB.

[phoenyx]

2 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

What sort of world do the guests come from? I'm getting more and more intrigued. It seems like everything has been 'solved', the world made good etc, but Felix and Sylvester are afraid of losing their jobs, and nobody has any power in the real world. Except I guess if you're someone like TMiB.

To be honest, their world seems a lot like hours. Except in their world, an executive director of a board can call a meeting at her place and answer the door naked. I like that change -.-

[arc]

Quote

Ford: You see, the guests enjoy power. They cannot indulge it in the outside world, so they come here.

This feels a little weird when talking about the 1% (0.1%) but it sure seems to describe Ford very well. His power in the outside world is wealth, to the extent that he presumably shares ownership and profits with Delos, but his power in the park is absolute.

[phoenyx]

9 minutes ago, arc said:

This feels a little weird when talking about the 1% (0.1%) but it sure seems to describe Ford very well. His power in the outside world is wealth, to the extent that he presumably shares ownership and profits with Delos, but his power in the park is absolute.

For the 1%/.01%, I think the idea is that, because the robots aren't real, they can do things like have sex with them or even kill them and it's ok, because they're just robots. I'm not saying that some rich people don't do these things in the real world (especially the sex part) with humans, but it's definitely seen in a different light in the 'real world', even for rich people, and killing people can definitely get one jailed, rich or not. I also think they're playing on the fact that so many video games have killing as their main course. 

[okerry]

Every time the little boy sees Ford, the boy says, "Are you lost?"

When Maeve tells the techs she intends to leave, the one tech tells her she *can't* leave - that everything about her, "even the skin on your back, is designed to keep you here." Do the hosts self-destruct somehow, if they leave the park boundaries?

[phoenyx]

4 hours ago, okerry said:

Every time the little boy sees Ford, the boy says, "Are you lost?"

When Maeve tells the techs she intends to leave, the one tech tells her she *can't* leave - that everything about her, "even the skin on your back, is designed to keep you here." Do the hosts self-destruct somehow, if they leave the park boundaries?

Guess we'll find out :-p. But perhaps it's more along the lines that they each have tracking devices on them. I remember Elsie vectoring in on Maurice (the woodcutter) back in episode 3's "The Stray".