Elle Greenaway: There's Nothing She'd Rather Do Than Put the Bastards Away

[normasm]

JMO, what Elle said was "He reached inside my wound so he could paint the wall with my blood. Sometimes, I can still feel him in there." Paraphrasing, but, no she never said it was like rape, at least not explicitly. The way the story played out, Reid was not around when Gideon and Hotch made the decision to use her like bait for the rapist. If he had been, he would have protested, in canon, so, i feel that's why they had him absent when those scenes played out...

[JMO]

 

As you know, I was brutally assaulted ten years ago. The entire time I was being beaten I thought my assailant was going to drag me into an alley way and rape me or sexually assault me. And I wouldn't be surprised if similar thoughts went through Elle and Reid's minds.

 

Couldn't bring myself to hit the 'like' button. I don't think I knew this.  I'm so sorry that happened to you!

[zannej]

Yeah, she didn't come out and say it was like rape, but she certainly felt violated.

 

Smoker, good point about Hotch and Morgan.

 

Sometimes people who have been through certain things can be even more callous when dealing with others who are going through it. It's a defense mechanism. But I really did dislike how insensitive Elle acted in that CIA episode. Maybe she realized that being sensitive wasn't going to get the point across?

 

I also agree that Reid might have said something about Elle not being a good choice for the bait.

[normasm]

Sometimes people who have been through certain things can be even more callous when dealing with others who are going through it. It's a defense mechanism. But I really did dislike how insensitive Elle acted in that CIA episode. Maybe she realized that being sensitive wasn't going to get the point across?

So, so true, zannej. Sad, but true.

[zannej]

About the Hotch and figuratively raped part, was it just figuratively? The reaper implied he was going to prove he wasn't impotent. 

 

Yeah, they never did seem to explain that-- although the report on his injuries didn't mention any signs of sexual assault. I think there would have been signs of it if he'd been physically raped.

[smoker]

About the Hotch and figuratively raped part, was it just figuratively? The reaper implied he was going to prove he wasn't impotent. 

 

 

Yeah, they never did seem to explain that-- although the report on his injuries didn't mention any signs of sexual assault. I think there would have been signs of it if he'd been physically raped.

yes yes!! I know, I thought about it at the time, but they never took that path, my guess is they didn't know how to include it properly and changed their minds (something like García's wound after being shot) or the brass decided that was too much 

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by smoker

[zannej]

I do wish we could see Hotch meet up with Elle and see if his feelings have changed at all now that he sort of knows what she went through and has a better understanding.

[normasm]

I don't really think Hotch didn't understand, I just think he couldn't allow Elle to "get away" with having it called a good shoot.

 

Hitch would never trust her ever again to have anyone's back, or to not take it to the extreme with an unsub. She couldn't control herself with the rapist, and that's what he couldn't reconcile with. If she had submitted to the psych eval and somehow gotten herself straightened out, he might have allowed her back. As it was, with her being defiant and not acknowledging that what she had done was murder, he couldn't stand by.

 

Hotch has shown that he will be compassionate when one of his team is going through something dangerous and even illegal, as he did by (I believe) letting Reid get himself straight. He also looked the other way when Rossi killed the Nelson's Sparrow Unsub, because it was in the middle of a chase, not a premeditated stalking, like what Elle did.

Edited August 28, 2015 by normasm

[JMO]

 

 

Hitch would never trust her ever again to have anyone's back, or to not take it to the extreme with an unsub. She couldn't control herself, and that's what he couldn't reconcile with. If she had submitted to the psych eval and somehow gotten herself straightened out, he might have allowed her back. As it was, with her being defiant and not acknowledging that what she had done was murder, he couldn't stand by.

 

 

I agree.  She wasn't in control, and it turned her into a bit of a vigilante, even if only for that case.  In their business, they encounter any number of 'deserving individuals', and Hotch couldn't afford the risk that she would start delivering her own form of justice to them as well.

[smoker]

I agree, but I still would love if they had the chance to have a meeting and talk some day 

not only to know what would Hotch say but to learn how is Elle doing and what does she think of that event and if she's changed her mind about doing things other way or going to that shrink...

Edited August 28, 2015 by smoker

[zannej]

Oops. I didn't mean to imply that he didn't understand-- I think he did-- but I think that after going through a similar experience-- being violated in his own home-- he would actually know how it felt and not just understand it intellectually. He could empathize with her-- however, he didn't get out of control like she did. The type of guy Hotch is, I think he would feel that if he'd been able to empathize more he would have been able to stop it from happening in the first place. Granted, I think he already regretted using her as bait in the first place. It wouldn't change the fact that he couldn't trust her anymore though.

 

Which makes me wonder about something... He condemned Elle for shooting the rapist, but in Nelson's Sparrow he gave Rossi a pass on shooting the unsub. Now, I know its different writers with different attitudes, but I do wonder if maybe his experience with Foyet somehow contributed to just letting it slide. Granted, the unsub Gideon killed was an actual murderer who killed Gideon and the one Elle shot was a rapist and didn't want his victims to die. None of his victims were close to Hotch or the team.

 

And I still do wonder whatever became of Elle. I'd like to think she struggled for awhile and then came to terms with things and moved on and remained in law enforcement. Imagine if Elle became a bounty hunter though. LOL.

[normasm]

Oops. I didn't mean to imply that he didn't understand-- I think he did-- but I think that after going through a similar experience-- being violated in his own home-- he would actually know how it felt and not just understand it intellectually. He could empathize with her-- however, he didn't get out of control like she did. The type of guy Hotch is, I think he would feel that if he'd been able to empathize more he would have been able to stop it from happening in the first place. Granted, I think he already regretted using her as bait in the first place. It wouldn't change the fact that he couldn't trust her anymore though.

 

Which makes me wonder about something... He condemned Elle for shooting the rapist, but in Nelson's Sparrow he gave Rossi a pass on shooting the unsub. Now, I know its different writers with different attitudes, but I do wonder if maybe his experience with Foyet somehow contributed to just letting it slide. Granted, the unsub Gideon killed was an actual murderer who killed Gideon and the one Elle shot was a rapist and didn't want his victims to die. None of his victims were close to Hotch or the team.

 

And I still do wonder whatever became of Elle. I'd like to think she struggled for awhile and then came to terms with things and moved on and remained in law enforcement. Imagine if Elle became a bounty hunter though. LOL.

Heehee, and I didn't mean to imply you were saying Hotch didn't understand, but it is the lack of control she exhibited, and the refusal to face what she did and seek help and counseling.

 

As for Rossi, as I said in my post, that happened in the midst of the takedown of a dangerous unsub, even if Rossi may have played a morally iffy game. He didn't do what Elle did, which was track down someone who was released, and, in a fit of rage, shoot him down like Dirty Harry. 

 

I would also like to see Elle come back as a whole and healthy person, maybe a counsellor or private eye, something which let us know she had recovered herself.

Edited August 28, 2015 by normasm

[zannej]

I think it woud be really amusing if one day the team members were watching TV and there was the CM world's version of "Chopped" and they saw Elle on it-- and she would be married with kids or something.

[Droogie]

Which makes me wonder about something... He condemned Elle for shooting the rapist, but in Nelson's Sparrow he gave Rossi a pass on shooting the unsub. Now, I know its different writers with different attitudes, but I do wonder if maybe his experience with Foyet somehow contributed to just letting it slide. Granted, the unsub Gideon killed was an actual murderer who killed Gideon and the one Elle shot was a rapist and didn't want his victims to die. None of his victims were close to Hotch or the team.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned and I just missed it. It's possible.

I wonder too if Hotch hasn't changed his thoughts about this after Foyet. Early Hotch was very black-and-white. Then Reid's addiction happened, and he also saw the results of someone like Carl Buford getting away with unspeakable things for awhile unscathed. Then he himself was attacked by Foyet. I wonder if it didn't flip some sort of switch in his psyche, when he beat Foyet to death. Foyet had technically surrendered, but Hotch still beat him to death, with his bare hands -- now I know he was concerned about Jack, but he could've trusted that he could keep Jack safe once Foyet had given up. But he didnt trust the system to do what it was designed to do. Did he come to a sort of understanding within himself, that sometimes justice isn't served, and that sometimes, one could rationalize taking matters into his own hands?

And I wonder if he now fears that part of himself.

Just a thought.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Droogie

[Cobalt Stargazer]

For anyone who's interested in such things (and gets the SyFy channel), Lola Glaudini has a minor role in the new show The Expanse, the pilot of which is re-airing right now. I'm not sure how prominent her part will be, since I didn't know until recently that she'd be in it, but she's playing a police captain or something similar. She's also cut almost all of her hair off, but it actually suits her and looks much better than the Haircut of Angst.

[smoker]

Rewatching The Sopranos, I'd fogotten Lola was the feb playing Adriana. What a surprise!

[Hotchgirl18]

I'm not a big fan of Elle, but she's at least better than jj.

[Couks 16]

I love Elle. I wish she stayed on the show. I always thought that she had a cute relationship with Reid. I understand why some prefer Prentiss.