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S01.E13: Arms Of Mine

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in 12 Monkeys [V]

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

Yep, this is becoming a big movie and TV trope for a character to sacrifice many, sometimes hundreds, thousands or millions for one person. Who would do this?

It's not a trope per se more a question movies and television shows like to ask especially "hero" shows or action ones? The nature of sacrifice. Does the needs of the many always outweigh the needs of the one? Would you let the world burn to save the one you love?

supposebly

supposebly

 

Would you let the world burn to save the one you love?

I think the trope is that it seems (at least to me) that a lot of shows or movies tend to lean towards presenting choosing one person over the many as the morally better choice. Or at least the choice that gives the movie the happy ending. Or get everything saved. The one AND the many.

I'm not sure that's what's happening here, though. Ramse and Aaron certainly were presented as antagonistic or opposing forces but Cole's choice just happened to be the one that saves his loved one AND billions of people. So, not so much the rock-and-the-hard-place kind of choice. So, he really has no leg to stand on when it comes to arguing about BILLIONS OF PEOPLE! when his choice wasn't really one. He was prepared to sacrifice himself at the beginning and probably still is but he's not prepared to let Cassie die while he had no problem shooting that young doctor Cassie was close to.

 

I hope they can keep the quality up. I really liked the scene when Cole beat up Aaron. Because there was some stellar acting going on when Aaron finally gave up. I could see in his eyes the moment when he finally gave up. When he realized that there was nothing coming from Cassie anymore and that his attempt to save her was all for nothing and that she would go down with Cole no matter what he would do.

Rhetorica

Rhetorica

Yep, this is becoming a big movie and TV trope for a character to sacrifice many, sometimes hundreds, thousands or millions for one person. Who would do this?

It's not just a trope, it's a philosophy. Utilitarianism - most times attributed to Jeremy Bentham. I taught this for philosophical debate well before Spock ever spoke it. The philosophy claims "it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong". Or, the good of the many outweigh the good of the few - or the one. Students thought I stole it from Star Trek.

  • Love 3
FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)
Yep, this is becoming a big movie and TV trope for a character to sacrifice many, sometimes hundreds, thousands or millions for one person.  Who would do this?

 

An idiot or a villain.  It can be used well if justified (like a character being on the verge of a mental breakdown a la Buffy circa season 5 finale, which she admits and laments later), but otherwise, it's a stupid trope that needs to be killed with fire, at least for characters who are supposed to be viewed as unambiguously heroic.

 

It's not a trope per se more a question movies and television shows like to ask especially "hero" shows or action ones? The nature of sacrifice. Does the needs of the many always outweigh the needs of the one? Would you let the world burn to save the one you love?

 

I'd say it's definitely a trope. One I'm glad they've decided to explore and deconstruct. High time for that. (It has been notably subverted a couple of times, though - my favorite example is Angel's heartwrenching duology "Hole In The World/Shells").

Edited by FurryFury
Rhetorica

Rhetorica

An idiot or a villain. It can be used well if justified (like a character being on the verge of a mental breakdown a la Buffy circa season 5 finale, which she admits and laments later), but otherwise, it's a stupid trope that needs to be killed with fire, at least for characters who are supposed to be viewed as unambiguously heroic.

I'd say it's definitely a trope. One I'm glad they've decided to explore and deconstruct. High time for that. (It has been notably subverted a couple of times, though - my favorite example is Angel's heartwrenching duology "Hole In The World/Shells").

"Always Save the Girl"? Even Disney is getting away from this tried and true trope. A girl can save herself, thank you very much...

Rhetorica

Rhetorica

Just read the description. It's not necessarily about a girl. It's just a title.

I know, I read it. I was trying sarcasm. Not well, evidently. But in this case, it is about the two main characters, which would be a boring trope, to me. It fills the characters with such angst. I just don't want to see it with Cole and Cassie. Are you glad they've decided to explore this because of Cassie and Cole, or the other characters? What do you hope develops as a storyline?

FurryFury

FurryFury

I love it that BOTH Cassie and Cole are all "saving the world > saving each other". It makes them both so much more admirable, imho. It makes them real heroes. In contrast, we have Aaron and Ramse, both of whom are so obsessed with saving Cassie and his son respectively that they lose sight of everything else. I think the show tries to tells us that yeah, one person isn't worth the whole world. Which is how it should be. Fiction, in general, is basically built on us emphasizing with characters, so often we don't even try to question why the protagonists place an important character's life over tens or hundreds or millions of redshirts or offscreen people. But I think that we should. Because being a hero isn't about making the easy choice or following your heart, damn the consequences. It's following your conscience. And if your conscience doesn't tell you that prioritizing one life over lots of others isn't the wrong choice... then maybe you aren't a hero after all, no matter what you think.

Rhetorica

Rhetorica

I'm going to share here, so no judgement. My daydreams, fantasies, whatever you call them, always have me saving the world. But everyone is a stranger. No family or loved ones in play. I cannot imagine sacrificing my children. Selfish, I know. That's why I think Jones, Cassie, and Cole ring true. Ramses, not so much because he doesn't seem to have even bonded with his son.

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