Ethan and Olivia

[Meow Mix]

13 hours ago, Fouts said:

I think it's possible for couples with opposite political or religious beliefs to stay happily married (see James Carville and Mary Matalin).  But that only works if both parties not only respect and love each other, but prioritize their marriage above their differences, no questions asked.  It really needs to be them against the world, with their contrary ideologies entering way far down the ladder of importance.  

 

Had to bold this because this is the point right here.  Olivia made some mistakes in not respecting Ethan's need for his family in his life, but she did eventually apologize for her bad behavior.  However, it was the Plaths who said they wanted a relationship with Ethan and not her.  That doesn't work.  On Ethan's side, he has shown over and over that he doesn't love or respect Olivia.  He insisted on doing donuts after she told him to stop then called her objections stupid.  He constantly snuck around behind her back making purchases and plans then springing things on her when she would be hard pressed to object.  Then it sounds like he presented her with a my way or the highway list and is shocked that she is choosing the highway.  While I think it's a bad idea for anyone (including Ethan) to throw away their own strongly held beliefs to preserve their marriage, given how disrespectful Ethan is I don't see what motivation Olivia would have to do that.  Why would anyone want to stay in a marriage with someone who was constantly lying and sneaking?  That's toddler behavior that Ethan should have grown out of years ago.

[Fouts]

 

My observations from the latest episode.  There's no thread for it yet, so I'm putting it here for now.  I'll move this when it opens up:

KIM:

1.  I enjoyed seeing Kim jealous at the praise Barry gets for being a decent parent.  “What about me?” Kim seeths.  

2.  Kim suddenly claims that Barry treated her poorly during their marriage.  Though possible, we never saw anything remotely to suggest that.

3.  Funny to see the preview with Kim pretending to be shocked by Ken’s request to “take their relationship to the next level” (producers from The Bachelor having been called in to rehearse that line with marble-mouth Ken) when we all know they’ve likely been knocking boots since before she moved out. 

4.  Kim pretending to be involved in “the little girls” homeschool assignments.  

5.  It just occurred to me that Kim didn’t argue much about having to move out of the family home instead of Barry since it provided her a convenient love nest with Ken.  

MICAH: 

1.  Is this week’s biggest villain with his messing with Ethan’s head, something he clearly planned.  

2.  Threatens Ethan's man card:  “You need to stand up to Olivia!”  

3.  Justifies his refusal to talk with Olivia by saying, “Olivia is selfish!”  

4.  Informs Ethan, “I don’t respect your wife.  I used to respect your marriage, but not anymore.  I wouldn’t ever want a marriage like yours with Olivia!”  

5.  Repeatedly pushes the narrative that Olivia is controlling and surely refused to let Ethan go to California.  Despite the opposite.  

6.  Manipulates Ethan into meeting Moriah by deliberating not informing Ethan of her coming.  (Always fun to get ambushed.)  

7.  Decides that the answer to the trauma of his parents’ divorce is to create family unity by causing a divorce between Ethan and Olivia.  And drinking coffee from a mug that says “unity.”  

ETHAN:

1.  Announces that “I’m not gonna put my family relationships on hold to save my marriage.”  (Good luck keeping any marriage with that attitude.)  

2.  Expresses regret but took zero action.  Even missed a flight due to action paralysis.  

3.  Realizes his marriage is on the rocks.  Olivia gently suggests therapy.  “Damn therapists,” Ethan scoffs. 

[Madding crowd]

Olivia’s need to have deep conversations with everyone is not going to work. I’ve been married a long time and have never had a deep conversation with my husbands family. We say hello at family events and that’s it. My husband’s family doesn’t like me so I understand how Olivia feels but I also get it that my husband wants a relationship with them .

I don’t agree with Ethan’s values but he has the right to have them just as Olivia has the right to have her own values. I don’t  think Ethan is a bad person and I don’t think wanting to have a relationship with your family is bad. I think Olivia is a lot; she likes being the center of attention, expects constant conversations about her feelings and she feels entitled to live a life traveling the world and rarely working. After she divorces Ethan I think she will need to get a full time job and live a regular life and I don’t think she will handle that well. 

[surfgirl]

I'd like to know just exactly what Ethan's hard held beliefs actually are. Is he homophobic? Is he ultra conservative? Is he racist? I mean what are these beliefs that he eschews so much that Olivia apparently embraces? Olivia seems very open to people of all religions, races, cultures. Olivia is body positive and probably pro choice, is that the deal breaker for Ethan Manboy? It can't be how she votes because I doubt Ethan has ever voted in any election. So what is it? Anyone else know Ethan's precious life ethos?

[Salacious Kitty]

He did mention God and patriotism. He implied that Olivia wasn't patriotic, or at least his definition. 

[Fouts]

Olivia did say one time that her faith had drastically changed.  Something about going from espousing a religion to just being a spiritual person.  I could be wrong, but I took her as saying she had rejected Christianity altogether.  

That would bother Ethan a lot, for sure, but Christianity teaches that a person is supposed to remain married to an unbeliever, not leave them.  

My guess with the patriotism is that she switched political affiliations from one far end of the spectrum to the other. 

All of this could be worked out between them except it gets much trickier if they have children.  I'm referring here especially to the faith part, not the political part.  Parents having vastly different beliefs is a tricky one.  I imagine this is what is freaking Ethan out and causing him to say he's hesitant to have children with Olivia.  

Ethan says a lot of crap I don't like, but in some ways I get him with the having-children part in this case.  It's all very sad.  

[scotsgir]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:13 PM, Fouts said:

Olivia did say one time that her faith had drastically changed.  Something about going from espousing a religion to just being a spiritual person.  I could be wrong, but I took her as saying she had rejected Christianity altogether.  

That would bother Ethan a lot, for sure, but Christianity teaches that a person is supposed to remain married to an unbeliever, not leave them.  

My guess with the patriotism is that she switched political affiliations from one far end of the spectrum to the other. 

All of this could be worked out between them except it gets much trickier if they have children.  I'm referring here especially to the faith part, not the political part.  Parents having vastly different beliefs is a tricky one.  I imagine this is what is freaking Ethan out and causing him to say he's hesitant to have children with Olivia.  

Ethan says a lot of crap I don't like, but in some ways I get him with the having-children part in this case.  It's all very sad.  

“My guess with patriotism is she switched political affiliations from one far end to the other”  when did patriotism become far anything?

 

[Fouts]

Scotsgir, I just took their use of "patriotism" as a code word for politics.  I think they're all deliberately trying avoid bringing politics into this discussion, nothing more than that. 

But I do believe that Olivia has swung from one end of the pendulum to another, how ever people might prefer to call it.  

[Meow Mix]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:07 PM, Fouts said:

I think it's possible for couples with opposite political or religious beliefs to stay happily married (see James Carville and Mary Matalin).  But that only works if both parties not only respect and love each other, but prioritize their marriage above their differences, no questions asked.  It really needs to be them against the world, with their contrary ideologies entering way far down the ladder of importance.  

 

Had to bold this because this is the point right here.  Olivia made some mistakes in not respecting Ethan's need for his family in his life, but she did eventually apologize for her bad behavior.  However, it was the Plaths who said they wanted a relationship with Ethan and not her.  That doesn't work.  On Ethan's side, he has shown over and over that he doesn't love or respect Olivia.  He insisted on doing donuts after she told him to stop then called her objections stupid.  He constantly snuck around behind her back making purchases and plans then springing things on her when she would be hard pressed to object.  Then it sounds like he presented her with a my way or the highway list and is shocked that she is choosing the highway.  While I think it's a bad idea for anyone (including Ethan) to throw away their own strongly held beliefs to preserve their marriage, given how disrespectful Ethan is I don't see what motivation Olivia would have to do that.  Why would anyone want to stay in a marriage with someone who was constantly lying and sneaking?  That's toddler behavior that Ethan should have grown out of years ago.

Ethan specifically said that he felt that Olivia wouldn't teach their kids to love God and be patriotic Americans.  I won't say here what I think the second part of that actually meant because I don't want to violate the politics policy, but fundamental differences in faith are going to be a problem. As I said, no one should abandon their fundamental beliefs to preserve a marriage and that includes Ethan as much as I disagree with his ideas.