Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 (edited) On 01/06/2014 at 12:17 PM, Jack Shaftoe said: Buffy wanted to let Spike take care of Dawn the very next episode after he had tried to rape her and the consequences of the attempted rape were all about Spike, rather than how it affected Buffy. If this is the model of to handle rape and its consequences on TV, I shudder to think what the worst examples might be... That said, I never got why so many people are apparently completely fine with Spike's murders but totally indignant about the attempted rape. If you don't like the storyline, fine, I hate it too, but in terms of making the character a monster, this ranks at about 43854096594th place. Because Spike can't hurt Dawn and she has little alternative, the Slayer has to make these tough judgement calls from time to time. Buffy recovers because she has the love of her friends and family and arguably has been through it before? And again, Adam Carrington in Dynasty. Or arguably Angel with Darla? Willow with Tara? Faith with Riley? Again, Spike has a supernatural get out clause, much like Xander's attempted rape of Buffy in The Pack. On 01/06/2014 at 2:26 PM, mad_typist said: ^^^^^ This, x1000. While the attempted rape was horrible and I loathed that decision, there were more problematic things about the way the series white washed Spike's murderous past. For example, in S6 after Spike and Buffy are laying around post-coitus, Spike says something to the effect of, "The only thing more fun than killing a Slayer is f**ing one". It was gross how the show treated that as "Oh, you scamp!" cute banter, when he's pretty much saying he really enjoyed murdering teen girls. That always bothered me more than anything else. But it bothered Buffy too, as she says in OAFA 'We don't joke about killing people in this house'. Edited July 25, 2018 by Joe Hellandback Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 02/06/2014 at 7:10 PM, Jack Shaftoe said: Agreed. The only good thing I can say about that is that Anya was even worse. At least Spike rarely cracked jokes about his murders, Anya did it all the time. But for me the most disturbing "funny" scene is Willow being happy that Spike would "bite her in a heartbeat." in The Initiative.The hell? It is disturbing enough even if we discount the blatant rape undertones ("I know I'm not the kind of girl vamps like to sink their teeth into. It's always like, "ooh, you're like a sister to me," or, "oh, you're such a good friend."), and it's too stupidly meta. And in the next episode Willow is all breezy about it, never mind she would have died if it weren't for the chip. I think we have to accept the Scoobs are like combat soldiers/police officers and are rather inured to all this, treating it more flippantly than they otherwise might, think off Buffy sitting down on the train in the outline of the murdered person. On 03/06/2014 at 10:35 PM, taanja said: That is one of the (many) reasons I liked Spike better than Angel. When Angel was evil he hated Buffy and wanted to torment and kill her. Every time. He did not want to be redeemed. He always fought against it. In fact he reveled in the evil of it all. He had to have his soul forced upon him ---by the gypsy and Willow (wasn't it twice?) once in the Buffy series and at least once in the Angel series? if given the choice ---Angel would have never chosen to be good. But Spike on the other hand --- sought out his soul after he committed that heinous crime against Buffy. He KNEW it was wrong and went about trying to make himself a better man (Ok vampire---whatever!) He chose his soul to be returned to him. For whatever reason Spike and Dru are different, even Marti Noxon admits that in her commentaries, they're more human than other vamps, perhaps because of Dru's link with the PTBs? Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 04/06/2014 at 8:49 PM, Tetraneutron said: Season 2. I agree with you about Spike, Sarah. Lots of fun, great villain, just layered enough. Until season 4 when the show tried to turn him into a good guy, woobified him, tried to make him a love interest for Buffy, and ruined the show. I swear, Marti Noxon's therapist needs to see season 4. And Dru is the absolute biggest waste of space. Question: has that waifish, quasi-Victorian-ghostchild character EVER not sucked? On any show? Why do people keep trying to make it happen? No, they're brilliant, the journey Spike makes is incredible and Dru pulls off the remarkable feat of being simultaneously sexy, scary, tragic and funny. On 05/06/2014 at 2:26 AM, harrie said: I kind of enjoy Drusilla just because she's freakin' nuts. Seconded! On 05/06/2014 at 2:37 AM, Kristen said: Yes, a little bit of Dru goes a long way, but when they use her just enough, she's hilarious. Absolutely although slightly disappointed at the lack of real Dru in later seasons, she was always a hallucination or flashback. 1 Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 05/06/2014 at 8:09 PM, Hanahope said: Yeah, I don't think I want to show my 9 year old Hush either. The Gentlemen creeped me out as an adult. I'm okay with that because they're fantastical, they're like Darth Vader or the Daleks. The sex and rape in Buffy might be more of an issue. On 06/06/2014 at 2:06 AM, Valny said: Aw, that's adorable @Willowy. I think. Just curious,so if she's seen through season three and you picked eps from later seasons, how did you explain Tara and Willow? So she knows what happened to Oz? Did she see New Moon Rising? What appeals to TV networks about lipstick lesbianism (aside from the voyeuristic aspect) is that it's ambiguous, kids are used to seeing women share physical affection with one another and think nothing of it, think Xena/Gabby. On 09/06/2014 at 4:14 AM, SomethingClever said: I'll be interested to see when the rewatch hits the later seasons. I'm of the opinion that Buffy has 2 legitimately great seasons, 2 really, really good seasons, 2 weaker seasons (that I still love large parts of) and season 1 (which doesn't really count), and those seasons are all pretty spread out (the order, by the way, is 2,5,3,6,4,7,1). I do have to vehemently disagree with Sarah about Dru. I think she's the one example of Whedon's "crazy person" writing that actually works. To me, the insanity adds a legitimate menace to her character. She feels dangerous, like she could do anything. I love, love that character. She's delightfully unhinged. Also, I've always loved this exchange: Dru: I'm naming all the stars. Spike: You can't see the stars, love, that's the ceiling. Also, it's day. Dru: I can see them. But I've named them all the same name, and there's terrible confusion She's a truly unique character, I can't think of anyone else like her? Kate Bush aside? Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 11/06/2014 at 4:55 PM, marsman said: Hi Sarah! Just saying thanks for the Buffy Rewatch, enjoying it a lot :) I'm watching the show for the 1st time and up to about the halfway point of Season 5. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Season 4, which has been my favorite so far. I thought the transition to college was handled pretty well actually, although I'm still really bummed by the departure of Cordelia. Although Spike is a good "replacement", nobody is able to ground the Scooby gang with a cutting remark like Cordelia was... Yes but look how she grew on Angel? And you have Anya and Spike to take her place. On 17/06/2014 at 5:34 AM, year of the cat said: Since Sars brings up the lame-o factor of The First Evil, I have to point out that huge elements of the show are plot-derived from 80's era comic lore. Things that just show up like The Dark Willow arc being OCC (is she grief stricken, or drugged, or power-mad? Who knows???) Groo the Wanderer, (which is a comic spoof of Conan the Barbarian) and the First Evil is from the Hellraiser comic, which also inspired Spike's character. Lots of Joss -riffs on basic element like the DC multi-verse (Doppelgangerland, the Wish, etc.) X-men powers like Gwen's character on Angel the Series. So if something seems to be "..." , it's because Joss is Geekspeaking and the writers didn't quite transplant the idea gracefully. Hope that's not too off-topic for the TV show. Forgive me, what's OCC? I know Joss said Buffy is partly inspired by Kitty Pride. On 18/06/2014 at 4:39 PM, EricJ said: The problem with the "Ripper" part of Giles' origin is that it was just lifted wholesale from John Constantine, and they never really integrated the ideas into the Giles we know and love, instead splitting out all of Constantine's bastardry into Ethan. (I think they later did a much better variation on it with late-Angel era Wesley.) Which isn't to say that I wouldn't love the hell out of a miniseries about Giles transformation from Punk Demonologist to tweedy Watcher. Or lifted from Prince Hal? Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 20/06/2014 at 5:05 PM, KirkB said: I've always figured it's never the actors if you can't see their face. So any stunt where it's not clearly the actor, it isn't. Because in movies, and the rare TV show, where the actor is willing, able and allowed to do some or all of their own stunts they make a point of showing their face so everyone will know it's them. I always knew SMG wasn't a martial artist, nor was Boreanz or anyone else, I just didn't make a point of looking close enough to see if the stuntperson was even the same gender as the person they were doubling. As for Marsters and the end of six, I don't doubt he was told to act it one way while the intent was something else. Whedon has admitted that was done deliberately to fool the audience. He wanted people to assume Spike planned to get rid of the chip so he could go back to being bad, when in fact he was actually out to have his soul back so...umm, it actually doesn't make any sense. At all. How could a soulless Spike feel bad about trying to rape Buffy in the first place? Let alone be redemptive enough to want his soul back, and for what purpose? Spike helped the Scoobies so they wouldn't stake him, and later because he started developing feelings for Buffy. Fine. We've already acknowledge that some vampires can have emotions beyond "Eat!" and "Kill!" but they decided to make Spike an exception to all the rules, even over Angel, by the chip somehow suppressing more of the demon and bringing back more of the human. I don't know. As much as I did like Spike overall his story arc is pretty nonsensical. Actually Sarah was a brown belt in Tae Kwan Do, one of the reasons she got the part. Spike was always different, you can see it again and again in the series, even The Judge comments on it. On 29/06/2014 at 10:39 PM, Jazzy24 said: Really? I never got that from that scene. He wasn't looking at her with lust or creepy or anything besides just looking at her. I thought he looked kinda shocked that this peppy, happy girl was about to carry the weight of the world. He did kinda look sad for her. Seconded, people are to quick to see the creepy these days, he looked on her as a treasure to cherish not despoil. On 25/06/2014 at 5:37 PM, mstaken said: Woo hoo---table for two, please! I really, really tried to like her, but I found Jenny cold, haughty, arrogant, and just generally giving the impression that she thought she was doing Giles quite the favor by deigning to date him. I'm also not a big fan of teachers who seem disdainful of their students, unless it's played deliberately for laughs. I didn't get that, remember she comes back to him when he ditched her. On 26/06/2014 at 5:24 AM, Jazzy24 said: I liked Jenny also and her and Giles were cute!!! I didn't like how Buffy was so mad at her Jenny was in a hard place but she had a job to do I was 100% on her side even though I'm such a Buffy/AngelFan4Life Seconded, makes her coming on to Xander in BBB all the funnier. Link to comment
Joe Hellandback July 25, 2018 Share July 25, 2018 On 09/07/2014 at 8:18 PM, Lurky McLurkerson said: I've been doing a modified BtVS rewatch, inspired by Sars, but not subjecting myself to the likes of "Inca Mummy Girl". I watched "The Wish" last night. (I didn't watch Buffy in first run based on how shitty the film version was and decided to give it a try when it hit Netflix. I was wrong, and I missed out.) It's really amazing how much better the earlier seasons of the show were (and how much I miss Oz, actual bad-ass Spike, and pre-graduation Giles). I also think Boreanaz's Angelus is way more interesting to watch than "soulful", wounded puppy Angel. I kind of loved what they did there in "The Wish" with making him the "puppy". For Buffy I think you have to watch it all, even the weakest ep has something to recommend it. On 11/07/2014 at 6:50 PM, Spartan Girl said: I loved that too. Too bad a certain other character didn't follow that example -- especially in season 6. Forgive me, which one? On 16/07/2014 at 4:54 PM, Spartan Girl said: Loved this: That sums up my entire feelings about that whole mess. But at least Xander finally knew what it felt like to be in that situation in season 7's "Selfless." And yes, SMG sold the end of "Becoming Part II." The way she stared in disbelief, the weight of what she did slowly sinking in, and then broke down into sobs...gah. Girl broke my heart. Cry every time! On 16/07/2014 at 7:46 PM, DogMama said: Apparently, I'm the only one who finds Go Fish entertaining. I don't know why - it's gross, it's stupid, and yet... This is a really fun project, and I'm happy to revisit most of Buffy. Season 3, here we come!! No, I really love it too. 1 Link to comment
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