KerleyQ

Respectfully, consent isn't an opinion. There is a legal definition, and that legal definition does not include "thought she was with someone else." Just because Brad Bell wants to play fast and loose with it, so he can have his "misunderstanding nights" without permanently branding one of his characters a rapist, that doesn't change the fact that consent involves being aware of exactly what you're consenting to. Luna didn't know who she was with. She gave consent to sex with her boyfriend RJ. She did not give consent to sex with Zende. What happened between them fits the legal definition of sexual assault. And Bell would be doing better by Zende (now that the deed has been done) to have his angst be about realizing that fact and questioning what kind of man he is instead of him having a sad that Luna still doesn't want him.

This. Every single time he's made any kind of romantic overture, she's shot him down and reiterated that she loves RJ and is committed to him. He literally just gave it another shot earlier that night, and she was not receptive. There was no winking. No "maybe I'll see you later," nothing that indicated she was considering taking him up on that. And nothing in the way she's conducted herself the entire time he's known her would give him the idea that she was a cheater. When he found her in the guesthouse, she was out cold, she was very clearly drowsy when he woke her up. He didn't take two seconds to make sure she was fully awake and coherent. He didn't take a few seconds to say "did something happen to you and RJ?" His generation has a better understanding of consent than older generations used to have. He absolutely should have taken the time to make sure everything was OK. I know he's been pining over her for weeks and all, but that doesn't clear him from being responsible about the situation. Side note on that pining - when are we supposed to think he actually started having some level of romantic feelings for her? Because we all saw his interest in her start as a way to get one over on RJ. (That, BTW, makes this whole thing even ickier to me. He started pursuing this much younger woman strictly because he was pissy that his cousin was getting a better opportunity at work, and than that pursuit led to this.)

What happened does not fit the definition of consensual. Luna was incapable of giving consent in the state she was in, and she didn't even know who she was with. It's not remotely unusual for someone in her position to think it was consensual simply because there was no physical force, and she didn't scream "no! Stop!" There's also some element of not wanting to believe that you're a victim and not wanting to believe that this person you know and have been friends with would do anything like that to you. Not to mention that, in the immediate aftermath, Zende kept repeating to her that it was consensual, while she was more focused on her own guilt over what she views as cheating on RJ than she is on the realities of consent. So, sure, she can agree with Zende that it was consensual, but that doesn't make it true. Neither of them is using that term accurately. At the point in time when it happened, she thought she was having sex with her boyfriend. She did not want to or consent to having sex with Zende.

I swear, if they go back to Finn being wishy-washy about Sheila after she stalks his stepdaughter and then gets into a physical fight with his wife... Eww.

Ah, thank you. I didn't have my glasses on, and it looked like a thin hair tie to me.

"You're going to question me about someone's romantic intentions when you're divorcing one of my sisters so you can go try to wreck my other sister's marriage?"

Zende is just super creepy. He knows Luna did not intend to sleep with him. He knows she's devastated by what happened with them. And there he is getting all weird over her hair tie and keeping it like a souvenir. He's going to be the new Thomas. And after Eric asked him to mentor Luna, you just know he was thinking "hey, working with Hope eventually worked for Thomas!" Luna, don't listen to your mother. She doesn't want you to tell RJ what happened because, if it does lead to your breakup, she would feel guilty over her role in it. So she's urging you to keep quiet so she doesn't have to face that. Luna was drugged. Her actions occurred because she was drugged and disoriented. If she had been in her right mind and did all the things she did, she would, of course, bear the blame. But that's not what happened. And Poppy is partially responsible here. She was walking around with her "mints" apparently in exactly the same kind of container her daughter keeps her own real mints in. She surely must have known how heavily her daughter pops those mints. She had choices she could have made to ensure that her daughter didn't inadvertently and unknowingly end up taking her drugs. She could have kept them in an entirely different container (say a pill bottle). She could have made sure her daughter knew that she had "mints" she used to treat her anxiety that could be confused for normal mints. I take narcotic pain meds regularly. I've always made sure to keep them stored safely, but also, from the time my son could understand, I made sure he knew what medicine looks like and how important it was to not ever put it in his mouth. (And it took. When he was like 3, someone had dropped a pill on the floor in the lobby of the physical therapy clinic I went to. He spotted it and was right on telling all of us "medicine! There's medicine on the floor!") If I could get a toddler up to speed on what I was taking and how to avoid it, Poppy could certainly make sure her adult daughter knew to avoid her "mints." Luna's a bit over the top today with the "OMG, my mom is a druggie," but she's still reeling. Toned down, her points stand. It was too easy for her to end up with Poppy's drugs in her bag, and without any knowledge of what Poppy was taking, she was defenseless when it happened.

I'm assuming that, once Luna finishes explaining what happened, Poppy will figure it out and tell her. I assume that was the whole point of Li mentioning the drugs this week for the first time, and hammering away at how dangerous it could be for Luna, so that Poppy is already in that mindset and figures it out right away. (And if she doesn't tell her and lets her carry on thinking she just flat out cheated on RJ, she's made a serious bid for Shitty Parent of the Year.) Also, she was referring to them as mints (when she was alone and looking for them), so apparently, whatever drug she's taking, she was able to get in the form of a mint, which explains why Luna didn't notice that they weren't her mints when popping them. Although I'm still side-eyeing the idea that they would have had to look like her mints and that Poppy keeps them in the exact same kind of container, so that Luna wouldn't notice anything was off.

Agreed. And, under the circumstances, Zende should have had some level of "are you sure? What happened with you and RJ?" when Luna has always been very direct with him that she is in love with RJ and not interested in him that way. He walks in and she's basically passed out in his bed, that should have been the first red flag. And I was creeped out by his "you know this was consensual, right?" Dude, it clearly was not, because she can barely remember anything that happened last night, and she's already told you she thought you were RJ. That isn't consensual. Someone can actively participate in sex and it still not be consensual, when they lack the ability to consent. That's the situation here. Since this was someone Zende did not have a pre-existing sexual/romantic relationship, the onus was on him to take a pause and ensure everything was OK. He didn't do it. He heard her dreamily slur "I was waiting for you," when she was half-asleep, and he just went for it.

And I can't even figure out what the point of this all is. With Thomas/Caroline, it was obviously the plot they wanted to use to end things between her and Ridge. I don't think they're looking to end Luna/RJ, since they've spent so much time blowing smoke up our asses about how they're just the greatest young couple ever. And I don't think that the actor playing Zende has the same level of talent and charm that Pierson Fode had as Thomas. Part of me suspects that, the wrap up of this storyline is just going to be Zende shipping back off to an FC office in Europe or completely fading into the background at this FC office, like Paris has. Either that or Thomas and Ridge can hold a ceremony to welcome him into their club, declaring that now he is a true Forrester man. I'm envisioning something like SNL's Five Timers Club. They can get Rena Sofer back for a day so Quinn can tend bar at the club meeting.

Bill's obsession with Luna is kind of weird in general. He's met her a couple times and had one or two brief conversations with her. But he's spent damn near half the time he's with Poppy going on about what an exceptional young woman Luna is. My only guess is that we're going to end up with Bill and Poppy pretending he is Luna's father, to keep the real truth from coming out.

I have to say, if I was dating someone, and anytime our faces got within a foot of each other, they were yanking themselves out of the moment to pop a mint, I'd find it odd and off putting. I mean, I can see needing to pop a mint right after eating, but the way they've had Luna going at those mints, just to set this up, has been bizarre and unnecessary. We could have just seen Poppy popping her pills regularly and then the mix up when Luna was switching purses. A lot of people carry mints in their bags. Luna could have gone for a mint after eating some hors d'oeuvres or something, and it would have been enough. Also, the fact that she pops them a million times a day makes her mistaking her mom's pills for her mints even more absurd. She didn't notice that they didn't look exactly the same? She didn't notice a difference in taste?

Why is this show so rape-y? Err... Misunderstand-y?

I'm with you on this. This is my hill to die on with this show. Not only should the history there make it a "never gonna happen," but the way MA plays the character, I just don't see how I can ever see him as anything but, at minimum, evil-adjacent. He has resting villain face. And I really want to know what the point was of bringing Xander back to bring Emma's death back up if the result was going to be Hope putting Thomas off for a few hours before being fine with it and everyone but Finn helping Thomas sweep it under the rug. I mean, I know I kept bringing that shit up, but I didn't see a huge swell of "Justice for Emma" out among the general audience that necessitated revisiting it if they weren't going to actually, you know, do something with it.

Things that stuck out over the past week: 1) Zende is insufferable. Dude, it sounds like your beef is more with your parents, your grandfather, and Ridge than it is with RJ. Is RJ a nepo baby? Absolutely. But so are you. Your parents could easily get you a cool beach house. If you're pissed that they haven't, that's not on RJ. You're also working at the family business, and you've also designed a line with your grandfather (and that line apparently tanked, but you're still working there). Also, you're a grown ass adult who has already been married and divorced. Your desire to go play in he kiddie pool is disturbing. 2) Thomas is still creepy. The way he keeps talking slow and low while repeating all the "I love only you. We're going to be together." stuff makes it seem like he's trying to program Hope or something. And he keeps saying he's respecting her request for some time, but he's not really. He brings up her putting the ring on her finger every time they talk. And this most recent time, it was almost like he was trying to instruct her to do it, after another round of the repetitive "I love only you, we're meant to be together," programming. 3) Yeah, Luna is definitely Jack's daughter. I did have a brief moment of "holy shit, is she Finn's daughter?" when Finn was talking about how both of his parents were gone a lot, and he and Aunt Poppy had so much fun together, but then I don't think he'd refer to it like that if he had been banging his aunt. He'd seem a lot more secretive, I'd think. Since both his parents were gone a lot, I'm guessing that they were at least sometimes gone at different times, which would lead to Jack and Poppy having some time when Li wasn't around. And this would explain Li's insanely over the top hatred of both Poppy and Luna much more than an affair with a doctor ever did.

Speaking of Wyatt, it sounds like he's not fully 100 percent gone. I saw an interview yesterday where he made it sound like it's basically an open ended recurring situation now, because they just haven't had any plans for him. So, he may get called in periodically, like he was for his scenes this past week, and he's happy to do it if he is free when they need him. Hopefully, that means we'll see him here and there, especially if Luna is Bill's. Wyatt should be there for that reveal. And then, maybe someone in writing gets their head out of their ass and realizes that Hope/Wyatt is the way to go at some point in the future. (I admittedly have a fever right now, so I may be a bit delusional in that optimism).

While I was watching yesterday, I was thinking "God, you're such a pill, it's no wonder Jack strayed."

So, is there some kind of cost-cutting move at B&B where they pick one character each month and give the actor just one script that they use any time they're called onto set that month? And this month is Li's turn? I'm just cracking up at her saying Bill is off limits. Good luck trying to enforce that, Li. I hope Poppy hops on the Stallion right in front of her bitchass sister. All through the Bill/Liam scenes, when Liam was talking about how it's fate that Bill and Poppy found each other again, I was expecting Liam to launch into something like "just like Steffy and I are fated to be together." Because you know he was thinking it. I was cracking up at RJ being the one to finally do the math.

Thank you. I was certain she was dead. Why has Poppy not told Li to just go take a flyng leap by now? Is she really just going to keep subjecting herself to Li's daily rantings? Girl, she doesn't pay your bills, and you're a grown ass adult. Your life is none of her business. Tell her to go fuck herself the next time she demands to have a word with you.

I'm basing it on a couple things: 1) They clearly want to reunite Steam for some unfathomable reason. 2) That whole "look at how much we love each other and all we've been through" montage, specifically centered on how Finn never gave up on them, and how he fought his way back to her felt, to me like a classic soap sign that one of them is going to be dead soon enough. And we all know they're not killing Steffy. Extra credit: Finn is currently the only one running around town warning everyone that Thomas is dangerous (other than Xander, who was just here to be the catalyst for the story). It would be standard soap fare for him to die with Thomas being at least somewhat responsible. (As I said in another post, I see it being similar to how Steffy killed Aly and Ivy - Thomas and Finn will have a confrontation, there will be a struggle, and Finn will end up dead.)

I agree. The commercials, to me, have nothing to do with why I think they're killing him off. I think they're killing him off because of two reasons. 1) They clearly want to do Steam again. 2) We got that montage of their relationship, and that kind of thing often seems to precede a death. Like they're reminding us of how happy and in love the couple is and how they've been through so much to be together, so it will be extra tragic when one of them dies.

I do think they're probably killing him off, but I don't think an actor doing commercials is necessarily a sign they're out the door. I'm sure he can knock out a couple commercials on a non-filming day. I think it's likely that he just has a higher profile than he did when he did the old Liberty-bibberty commercial, and they've started hitting the wall on their Emu commercials, so they decided to bring him back.

I am begging the show to give us a swerve and not have Bill be Luna's father. Please.🙏🏻 I was eating while watching, and "those mistakes live in me, and I continue to learn from them" practically turned me off my food. Oh, I don't think he's stupid. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. He knows Hope's main driving interest in him has been the sex. So, when she says she needs more time, he pretends he agrees and will give her all the time she needs, but then he starts seducing her. Same old manipulative Thomas, more focused on what he wants than anything else. He's just learned to say the right platitudes to convince everyone he's not the same.

Yeah, Finn is dying. Probably something to do with Thomas. (I'm seeing something like the two of them having some kind of confrontation reminiscent of the way Steffy offed two of her cousins). That montage screamed "he's dying!" Liam will try to hit on Steffy at the wake. It's a shame, because he seems to be the only one left to lay some truth and sense on people (you know, since Wyatt's gone). Li just comes across like she's jealous of her younger, prettier, more fun sister. Wait until she finds out that Bill is serious about her and that he's Luna's father. She's going to lose it.

Lord, please let them leave that behind when they eventually reunite those two.