Natalie25

I think Jonas' motivation makes sense - Adam has always wanted to end the worlds and (everyone's suffering within it). It makes sense to me that this version of Jonas, even though he won't grow up to be Adam, has a similar understanding of the world. In both seasons 1 and 2 Jonas was okay with not existing if it meant that his father would live. This was more on a bigger scale - but Jonas has always felt that he was wrong, and I'm not surprised that he would agree with Claudia in ending the time loop. I'm not really understanding alt-Martha's motivation (or the character at all, to be honest). The version of Jonas she loves was the one that was saved and then died, and she only knew him for a few short hours. The Martha who helps Jonas end the worlds doesn't know that version of Jonas, so that connection to him isn't there. The only thing I can think of is that Eva's entire motivation was to continue the existence of her son (the Unknown). But the version of Martha that Jonas saves to help him end the world doesn't yet know she's pregnant, and is already expecting an apocalypse to end her own world anyway. Maybe the chance to be with a version of Jonas was enough for her to help him.

Apparently there's a scene in Season 2 where Woller tells Clausen that he thinks Hannah is the prettiest girl in Winden, and everyone thinks it's odd that she married Michael. So I guess he's always been in love with her! It's crazy that the show planted that back in Season 2 and they end up together at the end.

This was my question too. She keeps perpetuating the loop to keep him alive, but then doesn't even name him? I guess that's part of the loop as well? She doesn't name him because she knows he never had a name, and she's trying to keep the loop. I think the Martha that the Unknown hugs is the one that doesn't choose to save Jonas (and kills him instead). Bartosz brings her to Eva who gives her the scar. Then the little boy version of Unknown hugs her - maybe so she'll start to love him and to have more motivation to kill Jonas?

You're welcome! I spent some time reading the discussion on reddit after each episode, and some of the explanations there were super useful. So the show started with four "main" families: Nielsen - wiped out, all resulted from the knot. Technically, Jana, Ulrich's mother, exists, but is likely not relevant to the 6 characters at the end). Kahnwald - still exist, but as Ines never adopted Mikkel, she probably didn't have children so this line died out. Tiedemann - Doris and Egon have Claudia, but she ends up marrying Bernd (who has always been Regina's father in all timelines), we just didn't know until the end. Doppler - Regina as we found out, and of course Helge and Peter. There's no Charlotte, so their children don't exist. Katharina and Hannah are only part of the families by marriage, so their ancestors are still there too. I think you have the main list of people that would not have existed - Silja doesn't exist as she's the result of the time travel, and Bartosz doesn't seem to exist either (though he could, see below). Their children Agnes and Noah also don't exist, thus the Nielsens and Charlotte/Elisabeth/Franziska). Even though there no loops anymore in the real world, I'm assuming that Alexander's life still occurred the same way. I don't think his intention was ever to stop in Winden. If you remember his introduction, he had been shot and was running through the woods, came across Regina and saved her, then fainted from the wound. Regina ends up helping him, and it starts their relationship. It's at that point that he decides to stay (he buries his original passport after meeting her) and then gets the power plant job. Without meeting Regina in the forest, he could either die from the wound, or keep running and end up somewhere else where he either is caught or lives under the assumed name somewhere else. I believe that without the Unknown Trio the power plant isn't built (no cooling towers in the background) so no job for him either. So while Bartosz could exist in theory as both his parents exist, they don't meet so he doesn't. This part was quite sad for me - it was clear that Regina and Alexander really loved each other and had a good marriage, but Regina does seem happy in the end. Check out the official website: https://darknetflix.io/en/family-tree I didn't discover it until after I finished the show, but it is really well done, and you can choose what episode you're on to prevent spoilers. Just a tip, the site allows you to click on a character and see their story chronologically. When you get to the end with Jonas, the website will "dissolve" the paradox characters and leave everyone else. If I remember correctly they were asking him for the keys? And I think this is the same episode where they kill Jasmin, Claudia's secretary. And then at the end, they give the keys and booklet on the Power Plant Volume Control to Eva. I think the Trio uses these items to cause the "accident" at the plant in June of 86 which causes all the loops/time travel. I have a theory based on something Claudia said, which is that Regina can live in the real world because she is not descended from the loop. Within the loop, she always dies. So my theory is that this applies to everyone who can exist in the real world - Bernd, Helge, Peter, Egon, Claudia, Regina, Bartosz, Hannah, Katharina - all are murdered within the loops. Everyone else lives, but they're all the paradox characters. Mikkel commits suicide so I won't count him, and I'm not counting the kids that were killed because of time travel. Not sure if I missed anyone else? I'm not sure if I should count Bartosz, since he could exist, but technically doesn't.

(1) I don't think it was ever shown, probably because it's not as relevant to the story. Hannah herself only had the 33 year increment time machine, so she either stayed in 54 or went to 87. Based on her and Silja's clothing those are the two time period I'd guess she was in. A few years later they are found by Eva, who tells Hannah where Jonas is and probably uses the gold orb to send them to his time period (as they show up in the early 1900s outside of the 33 year loop). (2) Hugely pregnant Alt-Hannah *did* have a miscarriage due to the apocalypse (if you look closely at the family tree the alt world does not show Hannah and Ulrich having a child). Alt-Old-Egon saves Alt-Hannah from the apocalypse and brings her to Alt-1954, at which point she has the affair with Alt-Young-Egon and gives birth to Alt-Silja, without whom much of the family tree wouldn't exist. (3) I believe it is the early 1900s at this point. Jonas sends Silja to be raised in the future post apocalypse world (probably by Elisabeth) so that she can return as an adult in the 1890s, meet Bartosz, and kickstart the family tree. Hannah is wrong, mainly because she has served her purpose of bringing Silja to Jonas. Silja is wrong because she is too young at this point to meet Bartosz and have the children (who have already been born in 1904 & 1911). (4) Yes, same Silja. I think Jonas uses the God particle to send Silja to the 2040s, where she is raised by Elisabeth (she's her translator in the beginning of Season 2). In 2053, Adam and his followers have moved their base of operations to the future - Adams sends everyone in different directions (or rather to different times!). Silja is sent to the 1890s to meet Bartosz. Hope this helps!

I got the impression that it wasn't just an early miscarriage / D&C, but that she was having to birth her stillborn baby. She looked pretty far along in pregnancy, and I think if the baby dies that far along the mother unfortunately has to go through the experience of childbirth for a stillborn.

OMG this part bothered me so much! The two of them lying to Moody is bad enough, but to use his special place to do it is pretty cruel. That's a good point. She can't even be honest with Bebe when she's giving her reason for not taking the stand.

Also, did anyone notice that in the last shot, Mia was driving on the wrong side of the road? Probably they just did that to get the shot of the "Shaker Heights" sign, but it looks like Mia's leaving town and driving on the wrong side!

You're right that those women have a few days to change their mind, but that's a situation where the intended parents are completely adoptive. Those parents have no biological ties, and the mother can change her mind and retain full custody. In Mia's case, Jesse Williams is the biological father of the baby, so it's not quite as easy for Mia to change her mind because he would still have rights as the father.

I don't know, I didn't think Moody was that possessive - to be honest I kind of thought Pearl was being a bad friend. They had already made plans to skip the dance and watch the movie instead. She convinced him to do both, and then was pretty obvious about only wanting to go the after party because Trip and Lexie were going to be there. I think Moody snapped at her then because he was hurt. He's been a good friend to her, and while she's obviously under no obligation to accept his friendship, they have been good friends up till the dance. But from his perspective, she basically blowing him off to spend time with his more popular siblings. I think many teens would be hurt by that.

I thought there was something off about Gabe the entire time - he was the only teen that didn't have a realistic, skeptical reaction to the keys, and was instead all in with believing magic. So finding out he was Dodge the entire time was a nice touch, the actor was great at the end portraying the demon version.

I was wondering the same thing, they seem like nightmares, and Mia seems like she's running. If he's maybe powerful or influential, she might be worried that he'd want custody.

I was wondering if maybe Mia was arrested, and trashed her own record but kept the rest. And then tried to maybe save Elena during the book club to throw her suspicions off/have her feel indebted to Mia.

They did, but it can take years to get approved, especially if you're looking for a healthy infant vs. and older child. And probably it just so happened that when May Ling was found they were next on the list. Super contrived, but these things tend to happen to move plots along.

Yes, I wish Mia had tried harder to stop her from going to the party. I can't imagine how hard that would have been for the coworker, to know where her daughter was and not go get her. But I think legally she'd have a better shot if she went straight through a lawyer. So I feel it's something more than this - maybe it was just me, but it felt like the friend seemed almost...jealous? That Izzy was dancing with / kissing that other kid. And Izzy doesn't seem to know why they're not friends anymore (she asked in the bathroom why). I think if she'd made a pass that had been rejected she'd understand why the other girl didn't want to be friends. I almost wonder if the friend is the one that is gay or bisexual and has feelings for Izzy, and is starting rumors about her because she's having trouble processing it. Agree with everything you've said here!

I'm liking this show, some good lines. I didn't realize, was this the finale?

I think they dated in college? But then his mother didn't like her / think she was right for the family, and he decided to do his duty and broke up with Dex. So he got married and had a child, and Dex ended up joining the military. Eventually he realized he couldn't stay in the marriage and got a divorce and joined the military after Dex. But I don't think they had contact, I'm pretty Dex has been clear that she didn't ask him to join, and that he didn't leave his family for an affair with her. The video chat gave me the impression that although on his end he wanted to get back together, she didn't want to be responsible for breaking up the family/marriage.

Would CPR be really be needed/helpful for a brain/head injury? I'd imagine it would need to be a severe injury for circulation to stop, in which case Jughead may not have survived (or may not have complete recovery). That part just seemed off to me. But otherwise I quite liked this episode.

Mia's dreams and her response to the security guard catching Moody and Pearl gave me the impression that she was running from someone, but Pearl doesn't know about it.

Did anyone else catch what Randall said about William? Something like, "When the treatment became too painful I allowed him to choose to end it." I can't remember, but did William want to stop treatment earlier in season 1, but Randall wouldn't let him? He seems so focused on saving their physical lives that he forgets about quality of life. I just found that statement so horrible, poor William! I'm sure William himself felt as guilted as Rebecca into continuing treatment after he gave Randall up for adoption. These are adults who have a right to choose how to spend what little time they have left.

Anyone else watching? I haven't read the books, but I enjoyed the first episode. Loved the scene showing the two women separated from their daughters (Elena/Izzy by the door, Mia/Pearl by the wall).

I knew it! Or rather, I'd suspected Nancy was Lucy's daughter, because there was a throw away comment earlier in the season that they'd spent Nancy's earlier life in Europe, which seemed like a dead give away that she was adopted. Although my original theory had been that maybe Kate Drew was a new identity for Lucy - but that was before I knew the timeline and that Kate had been her guidance counselor. So story wise I think it's a good twist - adaptation wise it's horrible! Why on earth was this show called Nancy Drew? The longer the show goes on the further it strays from the source material...and now she's not really Nancy Drew, but Nancy Hudson?!

I like how Jack's NYC activity ends up based on Home Alone 2 - I think it must have been nice for Kevin to realize that his father appreciated something he'd shared with him.

Good point - the actor they used in the flashback looked similar to Mann. But also I suppose Meyer could have been lying to Jonah about who she saw.

What was Ruth's reason for visiting Meyer after 30 years? Meyer/The Wolf tells Jonah that she thought she saw The Wolf at the market...but this episode shows her seeing Frederich Mann - who I don't believe she would have known. Was her memory of that time just not great? If she thinks Mann is The Wolf and that the Wolf is Meyer...or did Mann just happen to be similar looking to The Wolf?