green
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11 hours ago, ShortyMac said:
I really liked Rami Malek's character in The Pacific, so, I decided to check this out.
I liked it. I'm interested to see where the show goes from here.
Hey cool. You are not alone. I just started binge watching it 2+ weeks ago and caught up in time for last week's new episode. I think there is an advantage to binge watching it as it keeps things more cohesive in your mind. Happy viewing and look forward to seeing your posts here.
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Wow thanks for the link. A lot of info about the upcoming episodes in that interview. Can't wait for the show to continue.
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Just now, Cardie said:
green, I have always been torn between the sheer illogic of it being possible for Elliot and Tyrell to be the same person in the show's real world, which you have detailed well, and the metaphoric ways that he is Elliot's doppelganger. So, although I agree it would be shark-jumping for that to be the case, all my English major vibes have prepared me from the beginning not to go into shock if Esmail pulls alter Tyrell out of his hat.
p.s. Thanks for all those likes.
Hey Cardie I understand. Question for you or anyone else here. Does anyone have that monologue Tyrell gave to his wife when he was on his knees before her saying he didn't get the CTO job but it was okay? I think this is the speech that defines Tyrell's role in the show moving forward but I just have a memory of it; a leaky one no doubt. What I got was:
He says he doesn't get the job either here or earlier but then says it is okay because he found out he had been setting his sites too low. Implying that the CTO of E Corp was nothing compared to the vision he has for himself now. That there is a higher power.
He then goes on to talk vaguely about a nondescript tech you wouldn't even noticed if you passed by him ... something like that. I assume he was referencing his realization that after looking at the originally hacked C-30 server he found the f.society moniker left behind, knew Eliot must have found it too and is using it as the first step for the biggest hack of all time.
He decides to let it stay in the server. He realizes some of the implications could way transcend the power of the biggest corporation on the planet even. That Eliot had found Pythagoras' fulcrum point where he could move the world as it were I guess I'm saying. Tyrell probably then later contacted Eliot to get into the circle via the meeting the two had with Elliot going as Mr Robot's persona that we saw. Alliance or blackmail or what we don't know yet.
After the vague mention of the nondescript tech he adds something about the higher power thing either already or at this point; I forget. He tops off the higher power stuff with one word, "God." Tyrell wants to be God.
I saw that as Tyrell realizing what was up and that by joining in Elliot's hack he could possible hijack the hack which he seem to have done in part already by taking credit for it. He does become the Monopoly Mask guy anyway though what his relationship is with Darlene and the old remnants and new recruits of f.society hasn't been shown yet. He is acting indeed like a god bestriding the world making demands on E Corp (and the government by default) and if not ruling at least is shaping this brave new world. Darlene wanted a fair and just society with enough money for all from the hack. Tyrell wants ultimate power. Far greater than just being the CTO of the world's large corporation could ever give him.
So I don't see Tyrell as tied to Eliot's persona as much as another very major player with his own agenda separate from E Corp, the world governments, White Rose and the Dark Army, original f.society etc. Tyrell has become the ultimate demagogue trying to hijack a populist moment created by Elliot/Darlene et al as he tries to ride it to his version of godhood. We have one clip of him telling Elliot that the last three days they were gods together. But moving forward? The Lord Thy Tyrell is a jealous Tyrell and no room for a god named Elliot in his world I suspect. Short term maybe; long tern, no.
Also this monologue he had with his wife explains a lot about Elliot's one encounter with her. Her husband has disappeared and is now Monoply Mask Man. Then 3 days into the hack this young guy shows up not knowing this but just looking for Tyrell at home since Elliot has no memory of those last 3 days and that Tyrell is the most wanted man on earth. So she is immediately suspicious. She asks who he is and Elliot just mumbles that he is just a mere tech or something which might ring bells about the whole bit in the monologue she heard earlier about a nondescript tech.
Anyway long-winded another reason I don't see Elliot and Tyrell as one person but rather as super smart adversaries in the long run. (Sorry if this is too off topic but the threads are so short and the people who are reading this forum tend to come to the most current episode thread I imagine so it seemed okay to put it here).
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Just now, Cardie said:
Esmail has confirmed in interviews that Elliot suffers from dissociative identity disorder, what has colloquially been called "multiple" or "split personalities." The condition was made famous in the books and films Three Faces of Eve and Sybil. It is distinct from schizophrenia. Usually because of some emotional trauma, the sufferer's personality shatters into a number of "alters," who can be of different ages and genders. (His father pushing him out of the window would seem a likely originary trauma for Elliot.) Some are aware of the others, some are not and just lose time when another is dominant. Often one alter does indeed serve as the protector when a weaker personality is under threat. But there isn't a simple good-bad dimension to the various personalities like the transporter caused in Captain Kirk.
DID would make it very likely that Tyrell is another alter except that I can't see how those who know Elliot wouldn't notice that all the news media are calling him Tyrell Wellick or how Gideon, who knew them as holding very different jobs, wouldn't have said something. Still, that reveal wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Cardie, thanks for the top paragraph. I gave you a number of likes from past episode posts too. But I have to totally disagree with you about not being surprised if Tryrell was also part of Elliot. If that turned out true then the whole show goes in the crapper. Period. Because they would lose their total baseline of reality.
We know Tyrell is Swedish and married to a Danish woman. They speak Swedish/Danish back and forth to each other at home. They live in a comfortable, middle class home. They had a baby together. Every workday for some time (maybe years even) Tyrell had gone to work at E Corp and was known to countless people there and some people at Allsafe as well. He also had worked his way up to the second behind the CTO of the corporation. And for a short while held it temporarily. Since the big hack his picture has been all over the newspapers of late meaning his body isn't any more imaginary this season than last.
We know Elliot is from New Jersey and have met his mother, sister and father (the non-Mr Robot version) in either flashbacks or real life. Before returning to his Jersey home this season he lived alone and had (and still has apparently) a spartan apt in a run down area of the city where he has interacted with Shayla, her evil former boyfriend and his sister in the past. He is or was on morphine and hacked his nights away there. Every workday for some time (maybe years even) he had gone to work at Allsafe and was known to countless people there. One of them is Angela who has known him and his sister since Elliot was young.
We have seen Eliot and Tyrell together and both looked at and responded to in that scene (unlike Eliot and Mr Robot scenes) with the team of E Corp lawyers. Also at Allsafe when the old CTO and Tyrell met with Gideon, Angela and Elliot. How much proof does anyone need that these are two separate characters? There has been absolutely no hint that Tyrell and Eliot are one at all. In my opinion it would be more likely Elliot could have been the drug dealer or Cisco or White Rose or Querty than he could be Tyrell. And I ain't buying that Elliot = Querty any time soon. :-)
Unless Elliot can split his body up into two parts as well as his mind it is totally 100% impossible he and Tyrell are the same person given their timelines etc. We have two concrete people living concrete lives that can be verified by tons of people. The only way they can be the same person is if the whole show takes place in Elliot's mind 100% which would break every rule of drama and reduce the show to something less than that "lost year" of Dallas years ago I hear about where that guy was dreaming it all or something like that. No one would ever want their show to be compared to that major clunker. And for a cable show with marginally ratings, it would kill it on the spot. You can't mess with viewers by pulling stuff like that all of a sudden out of your hat. It would invalidate the entire show.
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21 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:
... I still have no idea how he can get out of this. By all accounts, Ray has him beat on every level, and I really don't see how Elliot will be able to get the upper hand on him. I'm sure it will happen, since he's the lead, but I'm hoping I will end up buying it on some kind of level, but I'm worried I won't. ...
He won't be able to. But I'm sure Mr Robot will.
Until he learns to get along with Mr Robot and use that part of him to advantage instead of either fighting him off or being over-powered by him he won't get anywhere. He has to come to terms with Mr Robot and obtain some balance. Giving in didn't work. Fighting against him didn't work. Integrating him somehow may.
That's why I'd also bold the sentence after the one shapeshifter bolded right above this post.
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42 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:
Ah, thanks. I didn't hear the actual words just the voice -- I did the binge-watch of Season 1 about a month ago, so its been a while since I've heard Wellick's voice. Since it was Wellick in the trunk then, that raises a question -- we saw Mr. Robot beating Wellick in the truck and a spurt of blood onto his pants, and we know Elliot is Mr. Robot, so does that mean that Elliot did try to kill Wellick and either failed or succeeded and is messing with the wife with the phone and the call to Elliot was another hallucination?
I loved the first 20 minutes -- it took me a minute to figure out WTH was going on but then I was all in. And if you go to the website they used in the "E Corp internet access" commercial, it takes you to a computer screen with files on the left and the commands screen -- it gives you the option to enter various commands and it gives you a few more tidbits of info, as do the file folders. If nothing else, the show is masterful at engaging its audience on multiple levels beyond the tv screen. Next generation media engagement in full effect!
Cool. Do you have the link to that?
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2 hours ago, SailorGirl said:
Who was in the trunk of the car? Was it Wellick or Ollie? I thought it was Wellick but then when he spoke there was no accent -- I couldn't catch/figure out who it was.
Tyrell Wellick. He has no accent when speaking English per se. He just speaks Swedish at home to his Danish wife. And one of the best quotes of the whole show was him hopping around tied up and screaming "Help me! I'm a businessman!" before he crashes into the backdrop.
Excellent first 20 minutes of the show. Best segment of the season so far. I loved it all. Great way to make fun of those inane laugh tracks we all hate. Great fake commercials. Great everything. Even ALF was bearable limited to a cameo as he was.
I binged watched the whole show up until this episode and am all caught up. Got to say when I read the previous threads here on the old episodes I thought I wandered into a tinfoil hat conspiracy cell, heh. Only Mr Robot and Eliot's obvious hallucinations and "Evil Corp" read of E Corp are unreal. All the other characters are real. Even the show runner said that I thought. And even Mr Robot isn't entirely unreal in one sense since he is in essence a part of Elliot who is obviously real.
Not trying to be critical of anyone. After all I have hindsight on my side. And binge watching makes things so much clearer. Especially on a computer screen where you can stop and freeze the action. And some of you guys definitely caught Mr Robot being unreal before I did. But if you all re-read all the threads like I binged on the last few days some of the guesses in retrospect were pretty darn funny you have to admit. It was not a critical thing more than it entertained me. Overall I did get so much out of the other threads' posts and added lots of "likes". So I just had to go OT here to thank all of you collectively for the binge reads of same over the last few days.
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On 7/26/2016 at 6:52 PM, ElDosEquis said:
The program Expedition Unknown, on the Travel Channel, had a great episode on Vikings. The whole episode was dedicated to the sunstone and 'compass'
the original Vikings used to find their way around.
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/expedition-unknown/episodes/viking-sunstone
In season one, the show used the same stone and compass set up, but never really explained how they worked.
Well to be fair in the very first episode of the show Ragnar did tell Rollo he had "something that would change everything forever" then proceeded to give Rollo a Vikings science lesson on how both worked complete with bowl of water on the table and the candle standing in for the sun etc. Even Rollo the Thickheaded finally "got it" after that.
And yeah I saw the program you mentioned above too. The creator of Vikings was certainly doing his research and grabbing and putting stuff into the storyline left and right.
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If the writer is right -- which is a big if -- then this stuff about Aslaugh trying to kill Lagertha is from the mid-season premiere that they had access to. They wouldn't have edited out something that important from any version.
We did see them having a verbal showdown over "there can only be one ruler" in the previews for the second half of the season. So whatever happens is because of that no doubt.
Well I saw Athelwulf in the previews and I think Harold the Supercuts' brother maybe so he either survived the Seine River battle or any number of Vikings look as whacky as he did. One or the other.
And thanks for the link, Babalooie. Again I don't have access to giving the old version of a thumbs up for it because 90% of the threads I never see that icon. But consider it a verbal thumbs up.
PS: Update. Finally saw the icons this time through so went up and clicked on a heart thingie for the link. Who knows if the icons will show up next time in. They are as weird and as mysterious as reading runes right now. Still hate the "go to thread" in generic general and not to quotes or posters lack of options though.
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Thanks, Babalooie. Still can't give a thumbs up or whatever it is now called on here. In some threads I see the icon to do that but not here or on other threads. This site is still really dicey. I get a pop-up every time I come here that I keep saying I don't want to see. Something about "pushing" something to me. Liked the old look better. Sorry but I liked the way I could go to someone quoting me to see what they said etc way better than this no option format. On Vikings in the off season that isn't too much of a problem but active shows I just will be avoiding now I guess. And I really hate the cartoon bubble look.
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What a totally blah and undeserving winner. Yeah everyone here has said that already but just felt like piling on. Never imagined she would get any vote other than Julia's.
Aubry deserved the win and Tai won my heart ... along with Mark the Chicken. Cyd played well too and should have been in the final three except for the mere luck of the blah. Those three are the only ones I'll remember from this season ever.
Hope all three return in future seasons. If Tai wants back he is a lock. He was totally awesome. Aubry was great and likeable and they hardly ever have any decent, smart women back on Survivor so hope she breaks their mold and comes back. Cyd too. But the fact that Survivor has only a small token black "population" who have a tendency of getting voted out early on by their white tribemate majorities (hmmmm) like the guy that left on the first vote on this season and she defied those odds; I think she is a lock for their one "allowed" black female returnee slot. She obviously deserves it for her play alone but hey this is Survivor where the casts have remained way whiter than the country as a whole for like forever.
I'm glad Tai got some swag for himself and some critters as well. Even if it came from some crazy looking woman wearing a hat that was even more crazy. I see here that she is called Sia. See, I can see. Unlike her with that stupid hat. Obviously just another 15 minutes of fame gimmick person but at least she shared some wealth with Tai and some critters so kudos for that. Bet Scott and Jason were pissed though that non-macho, little Tai got that while they were being ignored.
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I'm pissed off they killed off Ziva. Predicted they would last week and they did. Strong female gets to die in her sleep killed by a second rate hireling and not the main bad guy. Typical of this show.
Ziva made the show and was my favorite female character on old style network TV. Glad guy that played Tony left since they dulled his character down the last few seasons. He got out in the nick of time too.
Anyway officially done with a show that gets back at an actor who know her character was being ruined and has great talent and wanted to spread her wings. Ziva rocked back in the day and she still rocks.
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If they kill off Ziva even off screen I'll never watch the show again. Ziva was the best thing about NCIS ever. Period.
But if the NCIS production people are still pissed the actor (?Cote something?) had the good sense to walk away from the show when she did and kill her off fictionally for private spite, that would suck. Glad the actor moved on because they were destroying her character and also because a real actor isn't afraid of new challenges.
The Tony character was good. Without him there is no fun left to the show. But glad he (?Michael) got out as the show circles the drain of watchability. The rest of them are just collecting their checks at this point. Even the actor playing Tim seems out of it these days.
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I don't play WoW but I play Guild Wars 1 (GW2 is terrible) all the time and my mentor there who taught me all the ropes was a 60-year old lady who headed a dept at a high pressure ad agency. Online gaming has grown over the years from a teenage boy thing to almost equal numbers of males and females and people of all ages.
Bringing this back OT ... kind of (cough). If they make a Guild Wars film they should get the actor who plays Floki to play cranky Gadd.
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pootlus, Ubbe is the one with the beard cause he is the oldest. The second son with the weird to me spelled name I can't pronounce either looks like the oldest one but with no beard. Once he gets old enough to grow one I will be clueless about those two again.
I can't find how to "like" posts in this format so give you all "likes" by saying it here. I'm sure they will have a way eventually; they are still tweaking it. I see the ability to bold is back again so it is a work in process. (Can't wait until they tweak away these silly cartoon bubbles and make our posts look adult again).
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On 4/26/2016 at 2:26 AM, cmr2014 said:
I think that the one of the big points of Ragnar's return was that we are supposed to remember that he didn't "seek" power. If the Earl had allowed him the opportunities to explore to the west, he would have jumped at the offer and given away most of the plunder. King Horick was power-hungry and used passive-aggressive tactics to try to defeat Ragnar until he felt compelled to resort to overt aggression, and then Ragnar was forced to take him out.
I don't think Ragnar was ever interested in power -- he's interested in knowledge. When he returned to Kattekat, he offered the sword -- first to his sons, and then to anyone in Kattekat -- and no one wanted to touch it.
In one of the earlier drug-fueled scenes, he's looking back on his life to the time when he was happy -- a farmer living with Lagertha and his son and daughter, and his whole life lies ahead of him. Now, he has power, a heartless wife, and a bunch of non-descript sons. He played his best game in Wessex and was betrayed by Ecbert He tried again in Francia and was betrayed again, this time by Rollo who he has saved over and over again.
On another note, I think that the Chinese woman was poisoning Ragnar on the orders of Auslag. I initially thought that we were supposed to kind of think that she was giving him opium, but that makes no sense. Opium poppies don't grow in Scandinavia, and she would have no way to know the medicinal properties of the local herbs. It makes much more sense that Auslag taught her how to make some sort of concoction to feed to Ragnar, and promised her something valuable in return.
I agree with your post about Ragnar not seeking power. That was the whole point with Ragnar being a protagonist in many ways. He did seek saga-like fame in battle early on and especially knowledge. But unlike all the other rulers or would be rulers in this show; he never sought power. Power seemed to flow to him on it's own through others actions. He pointed that out some in his speech before the sucessful attack on Paris when he told everyone to shut up. He was king not because he wanted to be king or asked to be king. But he was king now and he would lead as was his duty so put a sock in it already, hah.
Anyway a brilliant summation cmr2014.
But I have to respectfully disagree with the last paragraph regards Yidu. She gave him betel nuts. That was why you saw the red on his teeth and at times dripping down his chin. And it had nothing to do with Aslaug since Aslaug doesn't even know what betel nuts are.
It is now happily post-Yidu time so no longer a spoiler. In an interview with showrunner Michael Hirst he said the orginal storyline was suppose to be a Ragnar-Yidu romance but we can thank Travis Fimmel talking Hirst out of that. Fimmel apparently told Hirst that he didn't feel that Ragnar would be interested in some spring-autumn romance at that time of his life. What he needed was a close, trusted friend like Athelstan had been he could confide in. Yidu, for her part apparently, wanted to keep Ragnar close to her and kept him on the betel nuts longer than medically needed for his wounds until she had him hooked. Why she wanted to keep him "close to her" Hirst didn't explain this phrase further maybe since it makes little sense. So no wonder people keep trying to read something logical into this when there just wasn't any logic to the whole thing it seems.
I had no idea about any of this myself until I read the interview. So what I see after readin git is that they were kind of tweaking that storyline on the fly so I think that was why it made so little sense in the end. Sometimes we forget making a show is such a collaborative process and things do get changed on the fly and not all holes are filled in perfectly. But anyway, nowhere does Hirst mention that Aslaug was involved in any of it.
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I never disputed the existence of the historical Rollo. I merely said that Hirst's Rollo, the character played by Clive Standen, is not the historical Rollo. Hirst's character may have been inspired by the historical figure, but he is not a factual representation of the historical figure. He is fiction. The Vikings writers have taken substantial liberties with history to create this character. In doing so, they have invalidated all claims to their Rollo being the historical Rollo.
It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but you debated my interpretation of a fictional work using history as your basis. That doesn't fly, not only because the Vikings characters only loosely conform to history, but also because the fiction that is Vikings isn't finished yet, and we have only a vague idea how it may end.
I still don't get what you are saying. Rollo is Rollo. The founder of the Normans. Timelines may have been tweaked to get all the more interesting historical characters "on stage" while skipping over lesser figures so viewers wouldn't be bored to tears with uninteresting characters. And a relationship to Ragnar may be added for extra dramatic effect and insight into Viking culture and family norms but it doesn't change the fact that this Rollo IS indeed the historic Rollo and not some guy with a similar name.
Same with Ecbert. He is that Ecbert. Not some stray Ecbert who wander in off the turnip farm. Still Ecbert even if the show has him in the same timeline with Ragnar which they weren't.
Again it is historical fiction or historical drama and it uses, like all dramas of this genre, the real historical characters with enhanced and tweaked dramatic elements added.
So no they have not "invalidated" any claims to the historic Rollo. Instead they set up a re-imagined storyline (which is why it is historic drama and not a documentary) to get the historic Rollo to his final destiny while rolling out an awesome series in the process. Getting Rollo to Normandy to be THE Rollo was the whole end game point of having the character in the series to start with.
Maybe this is just semantics we are disagreeing about but I just don't get how Rollo can't be Rollo since Alfred's father wasn't Athelstan and I believe his mother was the other (first? second? someone mentioned it above) wife of Athelwulf and not Judith, Lagertha is still Lagertha, Bjorn is still Bjorn (even if he didn't get to jump out of the coffin in Paris on this show but Ragnar did instead), Aslaug is still Aslaug (though the sagas don't make her out to be a villain-like drunkard), Athelwolf is still Athelwulf (and see Ecbert above) but Rollo somehow isn't Rollo in this series. The other characters get a pass on drama trumping historical details at times but Rollo alone doesn't? Does not compute to me.
Now I do think that Rollo does not get the better deal in the end. Betraying everyone you ever loved from your native land including your family for some fleeting fame and power to me is the choice of a loser in life; not a winner. Or to put it in the words of Rollo's new "Christ God" (tm Floki) what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul.
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Hirst's Ragnar and Rollo are imaginative riffs on historical/legendary figures. They follow storylines suggested by history, but which are not historically accurate.
In other words, it's fiction. You said Rollo made out better than Ragnar in the end and cited the fate of the historical Rollo and Ragnar as proof. But since our Ragnar and Rollo are fictional characters, I think there may be some room for subjectivity and disagreement.
I don't understand what you are saying? This is historical fiction. It's is a legit genre. And it is not a documentary obviously. Therefore dramatic license is used with real historical characters and yes they treat Ragnar as historical rather than a meld of several people which Scandinavian historians tend to do. And there is no debate that Rollo was real. And that the Rollo on this show, despite the timeline tweaks, is suppose to be that Rollo. That was why the "character" of Rollo was put in the series period.
And Ragnar was "tweaked" forward in time so he could go to Paris.
You just don't put 40 "historical" characters into a historical fiction series when 7 will do and tell your story far better that way. You don't bore people with half the show being about other "historical" characters of no or very little import (think of all the filler material Saxon rulers we were spared already) or confuse them with new characters and the endless exposition scenes that go with them every single episode. Some people on the last episode's thread seemed confused enough over the appearance of the adult versions of Aslaug rugrats.
The beauty of historical fiction when done well is telling enough of the basic truth of history while not bound by the detailed minutia of same. I love real history and am a bit of an addict about same. Bring on the ibids and op cites. But I also love historical fiction where drama has an equal say at the table and respect those series and films that can pull it off well. Vikings is one such series to me.
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I think it's the auto spellcheck kicking in. It kicks my ass on this iPad. Ivar seems to always get turned to Ivan
Other than that, great post
Ah okay. "Smart" keyboards on cell phones are a pain too.
I second saoirse's link to that thread. Come join us.
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Well I know I am a little late to the party here, but I liked the time jump. I thought it made perfect sense in the arc of the story, and quite frankly, Rollo and Ragnar were bordering on a spy versus spy plot if the story did not move on to something else. In most shows I watch I do not like so many new characters and killing off old ones, but I think that Vikings does it very, very well and it fits in perfectly with the main theme of the story, which so many television shows like. Vikings is not really about badass vikings conquering the world; it's about everything you lose on the quest for power and wealth. This show has a true emotional heart, which is shocking to me because most shows that focus heavily on battles and violence totally neglect that part.
I am glad that the story is going to shift more to Ragnar's grown sons. I think it will be more interesting than watching Ragnar go on yet another journey to get all those things he thinks will make him finally satisfied but that never do. Now we can see how Ragnar handles dealing with the sons he wanted more than nothing else, barely raised, abandoned, yet who will expect to be great leaders and warriors (just 'cause!).
On a side note I wish Ragnar would have had some daughters (like he did in real life). It could have added an extra dimension to the show that I think would have been interesting.
About daughters. Well they did have Gyda in Season 1. And his conversation by the water addressed to her after she died is still one of the most moving scenes in the whole series. That scene can be seen on YouTube here and concludes with one of the most famous lines from the series ... "I will stroke your long and beautiful hair again with my peasant hands."
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Posting this link because there seems to be the belief in the episode thread that show Rollo is not the historical Rollo. But according to the show's producer himself show Rollo is supposed to be the historical Rollo. I remember him hinting at it before but this current article spells it out quite clearly.
Yep. Hirst basically took too major Vikings and fictionalized them into brothers and messed with the timeline a bit because dramatically it works far better to have Rollo there from the beginning than suddenly introduce him later. And historically it doesn't matter to anyone other than history geeks like me.
And I'm not bothered by it one bit. They get both stories told either way and dramatic elements are just as important in filmed historical fiction -- as opposed to a documentary -- as the history. Stay true to the "bones of history" and fudge the details to serve the gods of drama.
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Rollo won this in a big way. Live to die in a shithole or live where you can create your legacy. What culture stands now? Certainly not one by the Vikings. Paris came out quite well.
If the show is following history, we are about to see some very nasty stuff from Ivan the boneless. Probably some pretty grotesque things, which is one reason I despise the savagery society of the Vikings.
Watching the battle scene, Rollo definately saved Ragnar and also called off the attack to let them go. He knew he accomplished the defense of Rome and it was "mission accomplished".
No we turn back to Wessex. Oh how nasty that is going to be.
Ivar, NOT Ivan. He isn't Russian. Sorry, don't mean to "shout" but someone else mentioned this above and we are still getting Ivan every time. And a lone, individual psychopath isn't just native to Scandinavia in the 800's.
The Christians of that day were just as savage at times and often with each other as well as they warred one against the other. And also more hypocritical because their teachings were suppose to be based on love, mercy and forgiveness. The Vikings were raised with battle glory as their highest virtue and only real path to their heaven world so they were at least living up to their cultural standard.
What culture stands today? If you mean England today? Well that would be a meld of Saxon and Viking actually. And the Viking strand comes from two directions via both Ragnar and Rollo.
The whole idea of the show's "meta" story arc is the meeting of two cultures which happens throughout history. And wherever this has happened throughout the world and down the ages it usually follows the pattern we see here:
1. A few far seeing people in these cultures show interest and curiosity (Ragnar, Ecbert, Athelstan) while others (Floki, Athelwulf) distrust the "other" immediately and hate the whole other people because they feel them a threat to their nice little cultural/religious rut of their lands and fear change.
2. Something always seems to happen to let the haters hate and have their way. Fear is like a disease running the course of mankind age after age. Incidents, personalities what or whoever stop the peaceful growth of the two cultures and wars and savagery on BOTH sides takes hold.
3. It takes a long and bloody time but finally the two cultures start to seep into each other and they get melded and folded together producing a sum bigger than their original parts.
That is so much what history is all about. And what this show is all about. And though the process is long and bloody and brutal; in the end anyone not willing to integrate cultures that have run into each other will be left behind in the ashes of history no matter what people thought of them back in their day.
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In next generation don't forget Torvi's son left in Lagertha's care -- Guthrum. According to posts here he is the one it seems that is caught between two worlds. Probably because Lagertha raised him a better and mature young man than Aslaug raised her rugrats and he has no Aslaug DNA in his veins.
So now I think Magnus will be needed so that Alfred isn't the only next gen Saxon guy and Alfred has someone to be talking to and confiding in during his scenes. That and Ragnar's connection to Magnus this season will make for some good drama of course.
Thanks for the explanation about Magnus showing up in the Ragnar legends. Where they came up with Magnus was driving me crazy. Glad he is actually mentioned. And a mystery mother to boot. Perfect for someone like Hirst to use to his advantage.
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Rollo crying as the Vikings pulled put of Paris was such a moving scene. There was such a sense of finality for Rollo, watching his past sail down the river. Even though he was on bad terms with Ragnar it had to suck knowing you were never going to see your family or friends again.
I'm not sure why there's so much renewed interest in the Wessex settlement. Hell, half the people who knew about it are probably dead at this point. I can't imagine the villagers would be so up in arms they'd want to make Ragnar pay for it somehow. Violent death was the cost of doing business back then.
I think I'm in the minority here, but for me, teenage Ivar is a miscast. Between the broad, coarse features and dark brown hair, he's just not believable as Ragnar and Aslaug's son. The other actors fit, although Sigurd's resemblance to Erlander is a bit distracting.
I am surprised that in eight years Bjorn hasn't married and had more kids. Also, who's officially in charge of Kattegat? At what point would they figure Ragnar is dead or not coming back? And what the heck has he been doing all this time?
Nice post. You summed up Rollo's farewell to his family so well. I do like that Ivar looks so different than his brothers cause the blonde hair gets a bit samey. Maybe he gets his dark hair etc from Aslaug's legendary/mythic father she always brags about but who I doubt even existed. Anyway it is a nice way to make Ivar stand out more though "stand" might be a wee bit an insensitive term to describe it.
I assume Bjorn and Torvi are married. No need to see Torvi or if there are any kids cause dramatically that wasn't needed this episode which is just a middle episode in a 20 episode season so when originally filmed there was no need to fill in all the details right away I'd think.
Now to the bolded Wessex point you raised. I think it is the biggest deal possible because:
(1) As one of Aslaug's rugrats mentioned, half of Kattegat had family or friends that were part of that settlement.
(2) That settlement was the future of the Viking race since they have overpopulated their lands and the soil there is too poor to support their growing numbers. The rich farmland of England gives them the very key to their continued growth and existence. Ragnar saw early on that that was the real wealth of England and pressed so hard for the settlement as the thin edge of a Viking wedge there from the beginning.
(3) The fact that Ragner hid the news doesn't make him too popular among his people right now. They weren't upset that he was gone so long in that scene at the end than the fact that he had hid the settlement's fate from them I think. And "they" are the people at large because I assume the Wessex incident has gotten out to everyone by now.
(4) The Wessex settlement was part of a larger peace treaty between the Vikings and the Saxons where the Vikings agreed to stay out of England for their part of the deal and raid elsewhere. With the Franks too strong to take on anymore and the Saxons having broken their end of the treaty guess where we will be going to in the second half of this season?
(5) To sum up, the Wessex settlement news sets up the major story arc for the second part of this season. Major foreshadowing putting it in drama terms.
So Bjorn's plans for a Med vacation, Vikings style, may have to be placed on hold until Merry Olde England is dealt with. Though I guess they could split story arcs between the two but I'd rather see the whole gang together myself. I hate split story arcs.
I figured that Lagertha was still alive and ruling Hedeby. Remember that Floki seems to have some decent first aid skills for the time. He seems to know antiseptic plants to use for wounds, etc, so we can assume that he was of great help when it came to treating himself as well as other injured Vikings such as Lagertha and Harald's brother..
But did anyone else see Torvi get hit by an arrow during the battle? If she is still alive and with Bjorn, it seems that she would have been shown, at least briefly. With Erlandur gone, she could take her son back to Kattegat to start a family with Bjorn if she'd wanted to. I suppose we'll see her again as a close confidante of Lagertha's in Hedeby.
Overall, the strangest thing to me was that Bjorn wasn't shown with a wife and/or children of his own after 6 or 7 years. It just seems unlikely since he's heir to the thrown and he would want heirs of his own. Bjorn does seem to be more mature and wiser and I'm not surprised that understands his father's pain. As he mentioned, Ragnar went from being regarded as a god among his people to broken and defeated. And in the end, he was really just a man like the rest of them.
Anyway, did anyone else wonder what happened to Torvi? It seemed a little strange to build her character so much and then leave her out of the ending.
About Torvi my take is above. I assume she is with Bjorn but wasn't needed in this episode. I didn't see her struck by an arrow though. Will have to re-watch for that.
I agree Lagertha would be back in Hedeby. And I wouldn't be surprised if Ragnar hadn't been there if not all along but in part. But my guess is probably wrong about Ragnar because who can predict that guy.
Great summation of Bjorn and Ragnar too.
Since she can't bare a child of her own, I wonder if Lagertha has selected or taken on an heir to eventually succeed her.
Torvi's son Guthrum is there. I assume he will become a very major character in Vikings: The Next Generation too and wouldn't be surprised if he takes over for Lagertha. She seemed to have a close relationship with him and promised Torvi she would be responsible for him when Torvi left with Bjorn.
Of course this leaves the question of where is Torvi up in the air since you would think her son would be with her but she and Bjorn seem a real couple. But parent-kid relationships were different in those days and in that culture so maybe Torvi is fine with Lagertha as Guthrum's surrogate parent instead. And with Bjorn as Lagertha's real son it is all kind of extended family rules anyway so Kattegat and Hedeby are loosely related now too.
PS: Anyone notice Ragnar didn't bring along his every day work sword in that scene. He brought along King Horik's fancy sword of rulership because he is back to make more than a "hello honey, I'm home" statement here. And Ivar's look was so Gollem-like in "my precious, my precious" when he stared at that sword.
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S02.E07: eps2.5_h4ndshake.sme
in Mr. Robot
· Edited by green
A prison. They all wore the standard orange jumpsuit prison uniforms complete with DOC (Dept of Corrections) on them. That is if this is reality we saw at the end. Elliot promises this will be the last time he screws over reality with us, his imaginary friend, but I'm starting to distrust his promises at this point.
Anyway, congrats to the people that called it that he wasn't really home. They had me fooled because of all the other shots separate from Elliot like Melissa56789 mentioned above.
His paper with good news he shows the shrink seems to indicate to me that he is getting out (once we realize afterwards he is in prison to start with) so it couldn't be any major felony like taking down E Corp I guess. Or killing Tyrell which I don't buy. I think Tyrell is still alive and this killing him is some red herring to set up another surprise reveal. Otherwise why is his wife divorcing a dead man and yes he could just be assumed to be MIA but he was Monopoly Guy at one point from what I remember. And why continue with his wife's story if he isn't in the mix down the road. He seems way to important to just let go via Elliot killing him with his popcorn gun. Especially since we keep seeing him reach for the gun but never get around to even pointing it at him let alone pulling the trigger. Sure Mr Robot said he did it but ... you know ... this show never seems to be what it seems.
Anyway back to prison. Maybe Ray was a prison official running some illegal computer stuff like we saw -- "Only the setting was different" or something like that didn't Elliot say -- and Elliot was forced to help aka a Shawshank Redemption shout-out. Guess they will tell us next week ... or not.
I'm really finding the character of Angela not too believable. Is she playing E Corp or are they playing her? Probably both but she is in over her head. And yes she seems to have actually fallen to believe that rubbish that they value her given that scene with her father. But the thing that bugs me the most is her long silent pauses complete with Elliot-like vacant stare which look out of character for her, well, "character." Elliot, yes. He is the consummate geek and batsh*t crazy besides. But she isn't so to do the Elliot vacant stare bit for seconds on end just doesn't feel a right acting choice and it pulls me out of the show every time I see that posturing.
Sorry, had to get that off my chest. (Anyone notice her new office area looks eerily similar to Allsafe's old office? That can't just be cheap set re-cycling).