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green

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Posts posted by green

  1. My impression was that Horik acted alone on that ambush, getting tired of Ragnar making all the decisions. He was determined to get his revenge out of the way. What an idiot though. How is Ragnar supposed to make any progress on big picture (getting some land in England so people can settle and not have to raid) with Horik's meddling?

    I think we all love Princess Aslaug a little more after seeing her compassion tonight. No way did she want little Ivar the runt offed. Even though Ragnar wanted to, Mr. Tough Guy who just did a blood eagle last week, couldn't bring himself to kill a little defenseless baby. I liked that he let himself off the hook for being unviking-like by saying, "the gods allowed him to live." From what we saw, it looks like he has deformed leg bones and possibly may not be able to walk, but who knows, maybe he will grow and have gnarled but functional legs.

    So this Princess of Mercia sure is feisty. Wonder what King Ecbert's plan is? He wants her land but this Princess seems smart and he won't be able to outmaneuver her easily.

    Ivar the Boneless was a real historical person like many/most of the characters on this show.  He has a very Viking-like career ahead of him.  And the producers are well aware of it.  According to this quote I found on Wikipedia (Vikings/Season 2):

    "According to actor Clive Standen (Rollo), future seasons may feature characters such as Alfred the Great, Leif Ericson, and Ivar the Boneless, as well as travels to Iceland, Russia, France, and across the Atlantic."

    I bolded Ivar.  And hope they have enough seasons.  Alfred the Great will born soon I assume him being King Ecbert's grandson.

  2. I enjoyed them.  But I just read recaps, I don't reply over there.  I think only of the forums section for replying.  Multi-tasking on this site is beyond me.  :-)

    There should be a link directly to Vikings recap from the Vikings forum I think.  One click viewing to help channel traffic.  Because my bookmark is simply set to this site's main forum page.  I forget about the recap section otherwise.  Especially since there wasn't any recent additions.  (Because there was no traffic causing no recent additions ... Catch-22?).

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  3. There are many recorded instances of Christians practicing crucifixion long after the reign of Constantine. On the History Channel website there is a clip (something like 'Look Inside Ep 204) where Michael Hirst talks about two recorded instances where Saxon monks were kidnapped by Vikings and returned as part of Viking raiding parties. One monk was recorded as being captured and crucified by the Saxons. So, while the historical accuracy for several key plot points (Rollo as Ragnar's brother, Ecbert and Aelle reigning at the same time time) are a bit "off", the crucifixion of Aethelstan rings true for the era.

    So they took the one lone monk's story which was clearly an aberration and used it.  And by "Saxons" as in who?  Some ignorant villagers or an ignorant king or local churchmen?  Because it wouldn't have been sanctioned by the Roman Church of the time for sure.  Way for the show to twist history by cherry picking it.

  4. Floki's attitude toward Ragnar seemed to come out of nowhere.  Is this jealousy over Ragnar's rise to power? 

    I wrote about what I thought were the roots of it above in this thread or in last week's episode.  Some other people have too.  I think there has been constant foreshadowing going back to season one and that it doesn't come out of nowhere.  It's been building to this point for over a season now. 

    In brief my main points don't include jealousy over a rise to power.  They do involve jealousy over Floki finding himself replaced by Athelstan as Ragner's closest friend and confident.  That hurts period but by a Christian is rubbing salt in the wounds.  In the feast scene after Borg's defeat when Ragnar's main thought is to  asks Horik about Athelstan and Horik says he doesn't know what happened to him but hopes he is dead?  Well remember Floki jumps in to second that in an extremely strong and hateful way.  So hateful that even Bjorn is moved to stand up for Athelstan at that point. 

    Floki is a true religious orthodox when it comes to the Norse gods.  He is the most religious Viking we have seen on the show.  We saw how upset he was with Rollo's "fake" baptism last season.  Ragner asking Athelstan all sorts of questions about miracles etc is pretty heretical to Floki's mind. 

    Then on the episode that Ragnar sailed back to take on Jarl Borg we see Floki hop ship and crawl ashore on the coastline.  Helga runs up to ask what is wrong and he tells her about the loss of the ships in the storm and how the gods are now displeased with them.  This combination of jealousy and hate toward Ragnar's relationship with the "priest" as Floki has always referred to Athelstan and his strong Norse gods fundamentalism has been leading up to this point for a long time I believe.  The loss of the ships kind of sealed the deal because a major omen like this is a sure sign of the gods disfavor to a religious Norseman.

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  5. ... (skipping some nice stuff to reply to two things here) ...

    Floki, Floki, Floki - I have SUCH a difficult time understanding a possible shift of belief in/loyalty to Ragnar change to Horik because Horik (at least that's who I thought he meant) has be better vision of the gods and what they want from humans? Kinda destroys the whole purpose of the 'court jester' persona that this character has been put in...but, whatever...I did find Floki's dislike of Athleson a bit of a reach - perhaps it really is jealousy deteriorating into a feeling of betrayal and an easy step from that  to defection - kinda hope not...but there IS the limilarity between the names Floki and Loki....

    ...

    I have a lot of sympathy for Athelson - caught between two worlds and, understandably a bit mentally imbalanced after having been crucified...I can see his desperate re-acceptance of the 'church' and 'god save england' yammerings as the manic proclamations of a man who fears the possibility of a second crucifiction...but I kinda hope he ends up with the Vikings....And I am hoping they don't end the series until Ragnar gets at least as far as France - if I'm not mistaken that's where the name Normandy comes from...

    I thought it was Floki speaking too but I came across the previews again when channel surfing tonight and it looked like it was another guy saying this to Floki.  Like trying to convince Floki to join their side.  I might be wrong but maybe the previews are up online somewhere to check?

    I don't think Athelstan is pretending when he was shouting out "God save England."   I think he feels guilty -- as well he should -- for betraying his people when he went all Viking in that raid.  He killed soldiers who weren't out invading Viking lands but simply trying to defend peaceful people in their land. 

    Then he kills the young, unarmed monk who was only trying to save scriptures from someone he took to be a Viking about to destroy them.  In that act he basically re-enacted what he was doing when he was first captured.  Trying to save his beloved at the time Gospel of John.  But Ragnar, who had no belief in Athelstan's religion, respected that act and lets Athelstan live.  Yet Athelstan, who always held on to some of his Christian faith, instead kills this young monk who is basically himself five years earlier..  He is motivated by fear, yes.  But also by guilt.  And guilt that is totally deserved.

    Now he has developed friendships -- as much as you can be a "friend" to someone holding life and death power over you -- with both Ragnar and Ecbert.  Two very similar ruthlessly ambitious yet charming men with curious minds about each others ways and religion.  Athelstan is walking the razor's edge at this point.  That is one painful and scary walk.

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  6. I cringe every time I see King Aella and I get a little sad, knowing that he threw Ragnar in the snake pit.  I wonder if History Channel will follow history or change it up, letting Ragnar live and the king die.

    Yeah it's not the heroic death Ragnar would want.  OTOH, this episode had cutaways not just to Ragnar's raven a lot but, for the first time, to a snake.  Suppose to symbolize treachery no doubt (Siggy, I'm looking at you) but could be first foreshadowing of Ragnar's fate as well.  Or how the treachery may lead to the demise?

    Hope all this doesn't take place until Season 3 though.  The Ragnar actor has too big a screen presence to disappear too early in this series.  And we still have the Ragnar/Athelstan relationship to work out.  Athelstan can't keep mentally serving two masters and will have to choose between Ragnar and Ecbert eventually.

    And King Aella is out of his league dealing with both Ragnar and Ecbert.  Ecbert has him right where he wants him now.  First Mercia and kill off some of Aella's army in the process so Wessex's army doesn't take all the causalities.  Then on to Northumbria.  Maybe enlist some "special ops" warriors along the way in the form of, oh  I don't know, maybe a wandering Viking raiding party looking for work?  Have them and Aella bloody each other then ride in for the victory.  I mean his son will need to do something and why not give him the now new "sub" kingdom of Northumbria he married into to administer?  Ecbert for the win!

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  7. Thanks for head's up on Roma.  Sounds like my kind of read.

    Man I cannot get the main titles (song by Fever Ray) out of my head.  Show had me with that opening montage alone last season.

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  8. We had foreshadowing of Floki's change primarily through his reactions to the Ragnar/Athelstan bond but also there was that forboding scene when they rushed back home after Borg's invasion.  Floki had jumped out of the ship alone at the coast and his future wife ran up to him to see what was wrong.  He told her about the lost ships and that it meant the Norse gods were displeased with them.  Floki is starting to view Ragnar as the Viking equivalent of an apostate.

    Floki has two paths in this show as I see it.  Become Ragnar's Judas perhaps or take the historical Floki's storyline that this character seems to have been inspired by.  To quote a few lines from wikipedia:

    "Flóki Vilgerðarson (b. 9th century) was the first Norseman to deliberately sail to Iceland. His story is documented in the Landnámabók manuscript. He heard good news of a new land to the west, then known as Garðarshólmi.  He wanted to settle in this new land and so he took his family and livestock with him. From Western Norway he set sail  ... (me: details skipped) ...  he took three ravens to help him find his way to Iceland, and thus, he was nicknamed Raven-Floki (Norse and Icelandic; Hrafna-Flóki) and he is commonly remembered by that name."

    Wonder if the show was inspired to add the raven bit to Ragnar's storyline from the raven stuff from Floki's history.  Anyway Floki's out in the show eventually could be that he grows so disgusted by the abandonment of the old ways that he and his family sail off to the west.  Which I like better then say betraying Ragnar.

    Speaking of which does Ragnar's story end at the end of season 2?  We are running out of quasi-historical material with him at this point since his last child is about to pop out any minute.  Think he only has one more raid in him.  Hope they stretch out Ragnar's story into part of season 3 at least.  The actor is so good at bringing the guy to life.

    Amazing how the show creator/writer has woven all these real or quasi-real Norsemen into a great historical fiction.  Just the right balance between history while bringing them all together to serve the drama.  Ragnar and his wives and sons all were together.  Rollo and Floki were from other timelines though Floki's is really close to Ragnar's.  Making Ragnar and Rollo brothers serves the drama well by bending but not breaking history.  Bravo, show.

    And plenty of material for more seasons for sure.  Rollo's founding of the dynasty that will produce the one and only man to ever successfully both invade and conquer England.  (I'm looking at you, William, though you are a couple of centuries down the road).  In the meantime we have the vengeance-seeking sons of Ragnar (the family that fights together etc etc) leading what the English termed the "Great Heathen Army" to wreck havoc on the Saxons first.

    Awesome soundtrack on this show.  The intertwining of the visuals and the music between the two weddings.  The blood eagle music made the scene almost more art then just senseless violence (which it really was in real life).  Writing, scoring, filming, editing and acting ... this show has it all.

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  9. Book learning was only for interested noble men and those in the hierarchy of the church. The majority of the population were ignorant of anything outside of their own small world and they were extremely religious/superstitious.  They would believe anything they were told by their overlord or their priest.

     

    Lagertha stabbing her drunken prick of a husband in the eye was totally unexpected and fantastic at the same time. 

    I'd say not just the hierarchy of the Church but most monks as well.  They were the ones copying and illuminating the manuscripts.  They all had to know Latin and some Greek as a result.  They perserved both the Biblical as well as the ancient Greek and Roman texts.  They were the ones that saved both hertiages for future generations.  The Church didn't try to hide Roman or pagan history from the people.  They weren't some evil group trying to manipulate the peasants.  They, like all orgainizations, had bad apples but it was never a policy to deceive anyone about actual history.

    So I'd say yeah the Saxons were well aware they conquored the Roman/Briton peoples when they were brought in to "help out".  Oral traditions of battles and victories are always perserved by even the most illiterate in societies.  Exaggerated in the re-telling perhaps; but never forgotten.  But more important there was by then a famous history of England that the learned could read and share with the unlearned.  It wasn't some hush-hush book.  It was Bede's famed history.  And Bede died in 735 AD so his 5 book history of the English was already around by the time this series is set in.  And that history began early enough:

    "The first of the five books begins with some geographical background, and then sketches the history of England, beginning with Caesar's invasion in 55 BC." (Wikipedia entry on Bede).  So not only did people know about the Romans in England but they knew in pretty fine detail as well.

  10. Point I was making about the weed cartels is that that they are on the way out period first with medical weed and now with legal pot period.  I agree it has been dangerous to either hike or drive through certain areas on the west coast but that will be changing quickly with the quickly changing laws.  Show hasn't kept up with things very well.  It just takes me out of the show everytime we get into scary pot growers cause they are a dying breed.  And it will really make the show seem really dated first time it is sold to syndication.  Only solution is to face this dilema and have the cartels scramble themselves to find something else illegal to take up asap.

    They should have made these cartels into heroin dealers.  That still has the sinister factor and is the latest and biggest new (aka rediscovered) drug which is starting to subplant meth and most other drugs because of it's cheaper price.  Heroin could be imported along with Asian slave girls as the cartel diverifies it's holdings.  Then Dylan doesn't discover the slave girls until he is in too deep. 

    But Dylan has already murdered by pick-up truck someone when he killed his first buddy's killer last season which wasn't self-defense at that point as I recall.  The deputy I give you.  But the other dude wasn't trying to kill Dylan even by a Florida stand your ground definition.  Then he is accessory to first degree murder with Zane shooting the stuffed-in-the-trunk guy.  Now he goes all crazy shooting at the drive-by guys in the middle of town endangering innocent bystanders.  He is already a moral and ethical goner at this point. 

    I have no problem if people find Dylan sympathtic due to his background story.  But I'm sure at least 95% of all real murderers have similiar hardluck stories so he isn't some sort of unique exception to the rule case.  These are his choices.  He doesn't suffer from blackouts.  He chose this path.  And he could have hopped his own version of the "bus to Boston" himself.  But he didn't.  Everyone has problems in other words but not everyone kills trying to solve them.

  11. We know the death of Ms Watson was left a mystery.  Could be Norman but why not show it if it was.  So after seeing more of Nick is it?  Watson's father anyway.  I'm starting to suspect he had a hand in his own daughter's death maybe.  Darkhorse pick right now but this episode showed he is a ruthless killer regards the town official no one cares about.  And he is coldly leading Norma into danger as he uses her.

    Consider his daughter was bringing a bad rep to him not only because she was sleeping around with half the town thus the butt of endless male jokes.  But also because her main squeeze seemed to be Gil who was the boss (as opposed to the "big boss" in the shadows) of the other weed cartel.  So she was literally sleeping with the enemy.  And her sleeping around with everyone habit must have been born of a troubled past perhaps stemming from childhood with him.  (Is no one normal in this town?).  Add in the fact that 3 whole months after her death Norman stubbles into him at her gravesite.  Was he grieving or both grieving and starting to feel guilty?

    Also if his name is Nick he needs to find another one because Nick doesn't fit him.  He needs something maybe longer and that sounds more oily and sinister.

    Did the writers ever really think out this whole weed cartel thing?  Growing and selling grass alone hasn't really been "sinister" since before the 60's.  And before the show even started medical marijuna was easily available from about half the doctors around who would happily write scripts for their patients for a fee no doubt.  Then way before this season started both Colorado and, next state up from this show's home in Oregon, Washington, makes it totally legal.  So why act like it is the 1930's or something?   Maybe the cartels going out of business angst will be covered in Season 3.  But really they should have gone with something viewed as more sinister from the start like meth or heroin.  Meth labs blowing up right and left give better visuals anyway.

    But I think less killing period and more scary suspense a la Hitchcock's approach would reap far better rewards down the road when Norman actually starts to get his future into high gear.

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  12. The former Roman Empire wasn't a hush-hush "need to know" secret back then.  Besides the Romans, after Constantine issued his official convert or else edict, were Christians for the last century or more on their empire in the west anyway.  That was pretty silly.  That and having Christians out crucify folks when they could avoid the ultimate mocking of Jesus by just simply burning them at the stake or drawing and quartering them?   Of course they would be mocking his teachings of love and forgiveness still but hey that's humans for you.  Always in the shallow end of the understanding pool.

    I really like this show a lot but I have to be honest here about the Rome and crucifying things.  Really bad choices by the otherwise very talented writers.  They do history pretty darn well but because of that when they do suddenly throw totally dumb and false stuff at us it takes me out of my viewing enjoyment. 

    Stop that, writers.  You got a really good thing going here.  Yeah it is historical fiction and if they want to make the real Ragnar and the real Rollo brothers in this series to increase the drama I'm fine with that.  But replacing the memory of the entire freaking Roman Empire with a race of giants is close to jumping the shark.  Enough.  Next we will be told that aliens from outer space invented the wheel according to the local legends. (Oh me bad, that's the History Channel's version of history).

    Anyway I mean Ecbert could have been into something else he needed to keep hidden like say alchemy which was frowned on by the Church.  Chemisty 101 Dark Ages style would have made for fun viewing.  Athelstan could have been merrily blowing up stuff in the super secret squirrel hidden lab in his quest to seek knowledge.  But hiding the existence of ancient Rome?!?  Come on.

    Thanks to posters at another forum who had all the real histories of these guys down I knew Lagertha was going to be the new Earl (Earlette?) soon so glad to see that finally. 

    Anyone ever think that Floki doesn't just hate Athelstan because Floki is a Norse gods fundamentalist who cannot tolerate other religions but also because he grew jealous of Athelstan going from slave to Ragnar's BFF and chief confident?  Outside of Rollo, in the old days Floki kind of held that relationship with Ragnar. 

    Speaking of Floki, I liked the great delivery of that "No" line to secret keeping too.  Also interestring to see Ecbert's son is being set up to serve as Floki's Christian counterpart on the non-religious toleration front.  And about secrets.  Who thinks Athelstan accidentally spills the beans about Rome having existed to said son?

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