bluemoonstars

Interesting-I still don't think it's entirely a victim complex though. I don't think Callie paints herself as the victim. I think that's the difference between passive and a victim complex with Callie. If she actively painted herself as the victim to others I think we would be in agreement but I don't think she does- she usually doesn't say anything and simply moves on or just forgives people example: Gael and the painting, Mariana and the group chat- in both situations she never seemed to paint herself as the victim (even though she was) in fact she didn't really say anything. I think that's the difference- if she were actively painting herself as the victim it would make sense- but since she doesn't actively paint herself that way I think it goes against your point about it being a victim complex. I think that's what I'm stuck on that I think we have to disagree on- the active vs reactive. **Also just a note- I am in no way saying that having a victim complex is a negative- it's something that usually stems from a traumatic experience and it's something that requires treatment

But doesn't a victim complex go beyond just how one feels? Isn't part of a victim complex also seeking out situations that cause distress? Also don't people with a victim complex think they can never make any changes in the lives of others. Wouldn't that be the opposite of Callie since she has based her career on trying to change things for the better?

I think it's more passive than a victim complex because Callie does not actively seek out these situations- she didn't actively seek out Gael screaming at her for no reason or Mariana screwing her over for strangers- a person with a victim complex would actively seek out sorrow- Callie doesn't- she didn't seek out Gael's mom- she showed up, she didn't seek out being made fun of- it just happened. The thing is because Callie has been through a great deal she views these situations as inevitable- that doesn't automatically make it a victim complex though. A victim complex is more than just thinking horrible things are inevitable- it's also seeking actively seeking out misery not being reactive as Wilson pointed out. So what you're seeing as a victim complex is actually a passive person who has had bad things (but she doesn't seek them out) happen but doesn't realize that she has the agency to fight back- to push back because she's worth more.

Actually I don't think it is- I think this one of the things the writers have been consistent about. Callie does have a savior complex yes but she is also passive in a lot of ways when it comes to her own personal happiness and self-respect. For example that whole thing with the group chat and just letting it go even though it was horrible and cruel, Gael screaming at her and calling her a mistake because Jamie bought a painting... Gael's mother flat out dismissing her and Gael just standing there while it happens, Gael introducing Isabella to his family but not Callie- there's a whole list. Callie is in fact passive in a lot of ways and we see that throughout both shows and it's fitting with a character that has always struggled to realize her own worth(something discussed in The Fosters) and that talk was Callie's way of realizing that she has been passive and reactive and needs to learn how to be active and realize that she doesn't have to be miserable or accept being disrespected.

Okay am I the only one who loved that scene with Callie talking to Wilson- there was so much introspection there and everything that the audience usually says and posts about Callie was discussed (the writers are reading the posts lol). It was a breakthrough moment for Callie to realize that she's being passive and just letting things happen to her because she thinks she doesn't have any agency. She thinks that since bad things happened to her when she was younger that bad things will always happen and that she might as well just accept it and be miserable. If anyone watches The Affair- doesn't Callie kind of remind you of Alison- being passive and being convinced that since bad things happened to you before, bad things will always happen and you don't have any power presently to make choices that bring you happiness. Just like Helen said to Alison- you have power, and agency whether you realize it or not- you can start over. You don't like how things are going, you're unhappy, then play a different character. Stop entering complicated crap with Gael who annoyed me to no end this season 🙄 stop screwing yourself over, and do things that make you happy. I would love it if Callie left the Coterie (it seems to some sort of vortex that people can't leave like Hotel Cortez or something 😂- I'm still confused on Isabella and Gael raising a baby in that death trap..) and just traveled the world as a photographer or worked for an international organization or something.

If Callie and Gael move in together or get engaged or get married then I agree the baby will become her business but I think she's right when she says that at this point she doesn't have a right to an opinion on things right now- I think it was the right thing for Callie to say because she's respecting the fact that there's a boundary there and I agree your baby daddy's girlfriend doesn't get a say on the baby when you're pregnant. Claire was a bit over the top- I understand that Mariana was wrong but Claire was just unprofessional and agreed Mariana deserves a lot better

I think it's probably going to shift to a Gael-Callie-Jamie-Isabella square honestly. I have a feeling that Gael and Isabella may develop some feelings that push Callie towards Jamie.

I agree. I feel like this show didn't get a lot of promotion and I would love if Black twitter picked up on the show or something- something to get it more traction. It's a show about Black women by Black women- we only have a hand full of shows like that.

I loved the season finale, and if anyone wants to see some reviews and chats they should check out the reddit page!

I loved the episode last week. It was really interesting to see all of them in therapy(although I would have preferred it if they were seeing a black therapist) and seeing them trying to process the struggles that they are having.

I agree that it spiraled but maybe it's just me I just don't think her lie was that serious in terms of trust. She lied about her age because she had to in order to find work. I can understand where she's coming from, and Charles didn't seem to be too disturbed by it until recently. I think it would have been more believable if he were upset about her indecision in terms of Josh not a white lie she told about her age (which I still think isn't too bad because it's not a lie if they make you lie).

I agree that Charles was not the same character we were introduced to early on. When it comes to his mistrust I feel like it would have been more believable if Charles didn't trust her because she was clearly still attracted to Josh and lying about it in Season 6. I think if he didn't trust her because of that and the overreactions she had to basic interactions with Josh which showed she had feelings that weren't fully platonic- flying to Chicago, saying she won't be friends with him anymore (if that were her choice I'd support it , and I didn't like Josh mansplaining her feelings, that was really screwed up). If he had trust issues based on that then I would totally be behind his mistrust of her. But not trusting her because she shaved 14 years off her age because she had to in order to find a job..... yeah no

I saw Aiden as perfect for her in the beginning (Season 3) in terms of the comfortable place they slipped into (eating Chinese food in bed, just spending time together). After their relationship ended the first time and they started dating again it was clear they wanted different things. Charles and Liza started out great just like Aiden and Carrie-Sea Glass carousel, Hemingway exhibit, conversations about the tragic childhoods of authors.. When they first got together (even before they officially dated) they were good and he seemed better for her than Josh but then they broke up and when they got back together it was clear they wanted different things. - Also like Aiden in season 4, Charles is a brooding, mistrusting type- he didn't trust that Liza truly loved him and wanted to be with him fully no matter how many times she told him that she and Josh were just friends sort of similar to how Aiden felt about Big at first (before that HILARIOUS fight at the cabin and bonding over Big's relationship problems) Also, I think the reason that Charles didn't trust her was because of that weird thing with Josh in season 6 when she refused to just tell him that she was still attracted to Josh but it didn't mean that she didn't love him. She just did strange things like flying to Chicago to talk about a picture (an overreaction because she felt guilty about her feelings) because phones suddenly didn't exist anymore lol. But I think him not trusting her because of the age lie is silly- it's literally just a white lie that she had to tell-it isn't a lie if they make you lie (ageism) Ultimately Liza and Carrie had somewhat similar stances- Charles didn't trust Liza (he proposed because he wanted to be sure she loved him- it wasn't motivated by love as it was by mistrust), Liza didn't want a traditional marriage that Charles was proposing because she simply wasn't that person anymore. Similarly Carrie and Aiden ended their engagement and relationship because Aiden couldn't trust Carrie after she cheated on him, and Carrie didn't want the same type of commitment that Aiden was proposing similar to the commitment Charles proposed to Liza (that Liza also rejected)- That's why I think Charles was always Aiden- perfect on paper, wants a traditional commitment but it just doesn't fit, the trust isn't there. As far as Josh being a Big type, I'm a bit weary about that honestly but some of the connections I saw were that Josh came first just like Big did, Josh was the guy she seemed to have a habit of cheating with (Josh cheating on Greta, and Clare with Liza- although Liza emotionally cheated on Josh with Charles so there's that), the guy that doesn't seem like the best choice for her at all- just like Big objectively wasn't the best choice for Carrie, and apparently now Josh is loaded with enough money to buy a building on Metropolitan ave in Williamsburg right near Nitehawk (love it but it's kind of expensive for a broke Gen Zer like myself lol) which can easily go upwards of 2 million(and I'm rounding down) so he now has money like Big but Charles has money too- which is why I murky on Josh as a Big type 100%.

Even though I was in favor of Liza ending up alone, I do feel a bit bad for Charles because even though I didn't love him that much( I just thought he was too old fashioned and a little too predictable for what the show was aiming for in terms of changing your life), I still like the character overall, and thought he was a very still waters run deep type of character, and had a bit of a brooding GenX thing (very latchkey kid and the 90s)that I found entertaining. The one thing I didn't like though was him testing her but I also think he hasn't fully trusted her since he asked her in season 6 if he was still competing with Josh, and that insane fly to Chicago to explain a picture because phones no longer exist thing.

I always thought Charles was like Aiden- the guy you're with because he's perfect on paper- he's the one you probably should be with but it just never works out that way. Like Aiden was perfect for Carrie and very forgiving- he was the guy she should have chosen because he was easier, he was safe- just like Charles- Charles is perfect but ultimately he is the safe, easy choice. It's harder to be with a Josh type because you never know what might happen next. It steps outside of the old-school relationship box and it's the exact opposite of the life you had or the life you thought you were going to have. And I think they shared cute geeky moments (Hemingway exhibit) and sweet moments like the sea glass carousel. So I can admit they had sweet moments but they were sweet moments with the person that is predictable... and Liza's whole thing this entire series was stepping away from the predictable.