Joe Hellandback

They had ALL the power, they were some of the most beautiful women alive! If they respect MT surely they would support her? You can but people seem to now believe that any man in a position of power who has a relationship with a women who is not in an equal position is somehow exploiting his 'privilege' rather than accept that women have always gravitated towards such men. True but it's not trendy to do so at the moment, the cancel culture makes it dangerous to stick your head above the parapet ,especially in a place as achingly liberal as Hollywood.

And that's a good way to put it, fair to all. Famously Joss had drinks parties at his house to let the cast get to know one another and it would be ironic if that was were it all started for him. But both he and ED were sexually abused as kids and their addictions are classic reactions to that, it just seems that unlike GQ they were able to keep it under control and not let it affect their work. But that was about her time on Buffy/Angel? And I'm cynical that if he was such a monster why did she join him for a new show?

That's a good way to put it and I think DB may be in the same boat.

Absolutely! I've said before this reminds me of Empty Places but it's now beginning to resemble Marvel's civil war. Oh surely not! "White boi privilege"? What the HELL does that mean? No one in the Dollhouse cast seems to be complaining (or Firefly?) but again, I think if Joss had a temper it was probably from overstretching himself at one stage,

Well you have to partly blame the women, it takes 2 to tango and these girls knew his wife, had been to script readings at his house etc. DB did the same thing and he was married to a Playmate (who plays the Fell Brethren's breeding surrogate in the final few eps). But it is right to demand clarification from MT, the subtext of her remarks is devastating but they're so ambiguous we don't really know what they mean? Does she mean it was because of his temper or that people were afraid she would also have an affair with him as she came of age? I notice that none of the other people who've made statements, even those who criticized Joss have backed up her assertion Yes it is guilt by accusation.

I have empathy with both sides but it is misandrist hypocrisy simply to condemn Joss out of hand. Yes, very tactful indeed.

Quite true but it was perhaps indicative of her attitude? It was at very least inconsiderate.

My point was it broke everyone's heart to lose KS (as it did RL) but that doesn't mean it was wrong story wise. It's better for CC than saying she was 'difficult'? They did the same thing with Glenn Quinn, saying they fired him for being a drug addict would have made him unemployable so they came up with the story that they always intended to kill Doyle off. Womaniser or just sap who got seduced by goldiggers does not equal misogynistic douche nozzle? Given all the people he's worked with over the years actually very few have complained about him, largely just the Buffy folks and seems to be confined to that period he was trying to run three shows at once (even in the DVD commentaries he talks of having a "low burning rage". What else exactly could he do with her in season 4? Paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars for not doing anything or having her show up and lie down for an hour is hardly punishment? It is not irrelevant if she meant to get pregnant, if she did she must have been aware of the impact on the show, not to mention getting religious tatts when she was on a show where her love interest was a vampire. And I'm still waiting to have that clarified as exactly what?

He is, both he and ED sober for years and he's working consistently (she isn't but maybe she's enjoying married life?) It's not but apparently it would infuriate some directors. Joss isn't the only writer to struggle with cast/director/producers etc, that seems to come with the territory nor is he the first to have affairs on set, hardly makes him a 'creep'?

No but was she trying to get pregnant?

There were stories SMG could be tricky on set, telling one director "You're not the boss of me" (apparently as a joke) and that her nickname was 'The Duchess', Tim Minear in S&V just puts it down to her being so tired not to mention hurting herself occasionally, including broken bones. She was also a stickler for onset safety after an accident in 'Go Fish'. I hardly find it surprising that Joss having been a guy who was hardly a ladies man gave in to temptation after finding himself surrounded by a cast who regularly dominated FHM's Hot 100 who kept telling him how wonderful he was. Remember he had fallen out with people on set before with the original Buffy movie and Alien Resurrection (and was probably in the right both times). Do you have the exact story of Joss/JM? You can't blame him when she blindsided him? I actually consider them to have been very accommodating towards CC, they let her take off for 3 eps and for about 6 eps come in and lie down for 10 minutes and still paid her $50,000 a time.

I know MT/SMG campaigned to keep KS on the show because everyone loved her but that wasn't their call to make. Be aware Angel was struggling at that point and renewal was not guaranteed, hence the happy Connor ending, so that if it wasn't renewed that would be the ending. I did think of that I must say. So many sparrows! Could she have taken off with the Groo? It's hard to see how CC would have fitted in during season 5, they didn't need a seer any more. When it happened the word was she left because there was nowhere else for her character to go but that seemed to be just a cover story to help her career, much like GQ's exit.

I think he did and CC kinda ruined it?

Is it really? It's not like he was telling her to do it, he just needed to know because the show and the jobs of hundreds of employees depended on her answer. Honestly I think people are missing the obvious here, to even get a season 5 Joss had to cut costs and boost ratings. The obvious way to do that was to bring Spike over from Buffy but then you need to pay him. The obvious solution was to ditch the eternally unpopular Connor and new mother CC as regular characters. I don't blame CC for being sore but this is the same as GQ, they had to fire him for the sake of the show even though it arguably killed him.

Again you're reading into this, Buffy left SMG constantly exhausted and often injured, that may be more what he was referring to. God, poor Nick doesn't have much luck, does he?

Or a hard taskmaster who pushes themselves and others to excel? Don't let it spoil it for you, there was no misogyny, Tim Minnear said Joss practically cried when CC told him the news for the disaster it meant for the show. Plenty of great shows, DH, CA, Mash had behind the scenes ructions (ironically everyone adored Larry Linville and hated Gary Burghoff) but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still enjoy them.

I disagree, sometimes you have to be harsh to achieve great things, Dr Perry Cox rather than Gunny Hartman Then why did everyone keep working with him and praise him all this time? This is beginning to remind me of the end of Empty Places

This would be virtually every director in history, Stanley Kubrick, James Cameron, Hitchcock, Charlie Chaplin. On the show 'Buffy the Weekend Slayer' where everyone was sleep deprived and under enormous pressure, it wouldn't be wrong to be a hard taskmaster with the cast and crew, be Perry Cox, not Gunny Hartman. What do you mean? His affairs?

I thought he was there? Entertainment Weekly Cast Reunions: Buffy the Vampire Slayer - YouTube That was back in his hellraising days but he's been sober for years as has ED. I know DB got grief for cheating on his wife, Tiger Woods style. I think that might be exaggerated, if you look at the pics he's there with the rest of them. I would define it as oppressive and hostile where people feel victimised and mistreated. However I would not define it just as a place where you get shouted at etc, it takes more than that.

Willow did, even Tara and Anya seemed pretty keen on him in 'The episode with the haunted frat house whose name escapes me at the moment'. As for MT/Joss that would have probably been a disastrous relationship for both of them.

Well some obviously had on Buffy? As Kissinger said, power is an aphrodisiac. I've often thought Buffy is an ephebophile's fantasy, handsome older man Giles surrounded by a gaggle of adoring teenage girls who quite literally call him daddy. Rupert had a lot of female admirers and Guffy was pretty popular in fanfic.

Never knew that about the Bronze. I wonder if the Michelle thing was just Joss had had affairs with the female cast members before (as he admitted in his letter to his wife upon their divorce) and people were concerned MT would do the same as she reached adulthood, turning 18 by the final season.

Or it shows that it was a fun place to work but you can't have that anymore because people take offence at EVERYTHING, the BSG girls did something similar to Hatch and Benedict in the Triad ep

Again, mostly supposition, I think it's too early to simply say that he was a 'misogynistic egotistical asshole who create toxic work environments'?

I disagree, he exhibits many of the classic signs and it does explain everything. I always think of Anya in The Body asking questions which are wholly inappropriate but she just can't fathom why and no one will explain it to her.