Karlophe

I saw that last week quite by accident, and the entire thing was vile. I say "by accident" because this was one of many channels I would casually catch over the years, with others who covered the wider Arrowverse, making the conscious choice to drop two seasons ago when I realized how consistently unpleasant it, or more specifically she, tended to be (for comparison, on that same weeks Arrow review the looming spectre of Oliver's main relationship was met with one long "Noooooo...!" followed by what you might expect.) Just as a casual viewer, only having caught odd reviews of odd shows every now and then, this woman has always, always had terrible things to say about the leading ladies going back to the early days, parroting the misogyny du jour toward whatever woman was their fandoms chosen punching bag. If last week was anything to go by, this has yet to spare her from the same treatment by their channels comnentariat, but why you'd want that acceptance and approval, I'll never know. It's rank, and I pity her. Just to loop it back to topic, Caitlin is rather adorable in her new "been there, done that" casual relationship advice stage. Even with the glitchy Killer Frost issues, it's been freeing for her (and the audience, or at least this member) to not have her be bogged down with relationship problems. She seems so light now, and it's honestly great to see.

I'm expecting it with popcorn and champagne! I would die of happiness if they managed to sneak that into the wedding somehow, even if it's something silly like Oliver shrugging and letting her squeeze his bicep before she walks down the aisle. While Barry stands up front, just giving the eyeroll of his life. I'd run from the torches and pitchforks with a smile. As to the rest of the now-old news, I'll admit I wasn't happy either. At all. I've only had a day to really process it, and it just seemed so disrespectful. Robbing two couples of having their own day and all of the little, special moments that come along with it, to then split that down the middle and anger their fan bases to boot. I don't know what they were thinking. It felt wrong to me. And knowing the inevitable anger and infighting it was going to encourage didn't help either. And while that's probably going on out there as we speak and will undoubtedly continue until the crossover itself, I've been really pleasantly surprised at just how well it's being taken in others. Far more than I expected, I'm seeing a willingness to work out the situation and make the best of things with alot of open humour and civility, and it's all been...pretty okay. Really that's all I ever want, so I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts The situation itself probably still isn't ideal. I think its fair to say that no one is exactly overjoyed at the prospect of missing out on things they want for their couple because of timing and circumstance. But with it being what it is, I still think it can work itself out. Flash has the lead up on it's own show for personal moments and pre-wedding shenanigans, and there's no reason why there shouldn't be all the hugs and warmth and bonding we could ever wish for. The final crossover hour will likely be crazy, but axing the traditional first dances or epic kisses - no matter how tight the scheduling is I don't believe they'll do that to anyone. And where Oliver and Felicity are concerened, I really like what was said earlier in the thread about them having alot of personal moments and remembrances through the event, leading to living in the now with what you know you truly want and going for it at the wedding. That's a lovely idea that makes alot of sense, and I can now see them going that way. The only difference is it doesn't make me feel robbed - why should it? If anything, it's a really perfect way, especially on an interrupted/spur of the moment storyline, to honor what each couple has been through and means to each other, culminating in the actual weddings. It's sappy in the extreme and likely to send half of us into comas, but that, like the wedding, is something we'll all be experiencing together. If anything, it will at least serve as an ongoing reminder that these people are friends who (perhaps begrudgingly) do love each other, and the fanbases will stop tearing each other apart for a little while. Or not, I'm not expecting any miracles. Except Oliver offering up a pre-bridal march bicep squeeze for my own personal amusement. I'm still not letting that dream go. In any case, I still think this has a chance of being a lovely and memorable event for everyone, and even if there are disappointments, we all know we can somewhat rectify those and have our intimate celebrations after, back "home", and know it's going to be a hell of a crossover otherwise and regardless. There is just too much awesome coming outside of wedding concerns to ruin this event for me, and even that has a hope at working itself out unexpectedly. It might even be charming. I guess we'll see, but my excitement remains undiminished (and the wedding never was).

Just now getting to the news and I am so, so upset. I really didn't want to lose Victor Garber. I understand him wanting to pursue other opportunities, but did they have to write him out like this? After discovering he now has a daughter? After everything Clarissa has been through since the particle accelerator explosion? He disappears, comes back as half a crazy person, leaves on a timeship, and then dies in an alternate universe? Why couldn't he "retire" and go home to his family? And I like Lily very much, and would be happy to have her join the Legends crew, but I agree with the poster above that having an older character really added something to the show. His intellectual vanity, his stubborn insistence on always being right, his cranky humour and experience....even his physical vulnerability and adjusting a very set world view to accommodate unforseen, extraordinary circumstances brought a viewpoint I don't think we necessarily see very often. Especially in this universe. That diversity of viewpoints is kind one of Legends defining features to me. The transient nature of the characters is another one, I know, but if it was his time to go, did I really have to be this way? Well. I'm going to miss his utter horror at Mick Rory's antics, and his older gentleman faux pas, and his dynamic with Jax, and Sara, and the crew. All of the unpleasant news just came all at once, didn't it. Well...if Sara doesn't have to be spoiler tagged in the Supergirl spoiler thread, is there any reason why this topic (and other relevant crossover material) can't be discussed spoiler tagged strictly in our own spoiler thread during crossover season/episodes? Not to be combative, but @Proteus makes a fair point why the MYS thread funtions as too much of a catch-all for those who don't follow or aren't fully caught up on the other shows, and that aside there are probably a variety of reasons some might prefer to discuss the crossover material concerning their own characters in their own forums.

With the Flash wedding fully confirmed in all corners for the crossover event this year, I'm now at 99.99% certainty that their 100th episode will introduce Bart. Too soon for my taste, but the perfect time otherwise. Whether or not they choose to feature this during the crossover will probably all depend on the extent they want to use him that season - if he's going to be featured heavily with hopes of crossing over (Legends being the likeliest candidate), they'll want to introduce him to the rest of the Arrowverse. If it's going to be a more personal story they might choose to have their 100th episode stand alone, preceding or following that years crossover...but I doubt it. Flash more than anyone likes to go big and take full advantage of the shared universe. But as always, varied mileage, speculation...and so on and so forth.

Unbeknownst to us all, Diggle is actually holding the pamphlet in the foreground, but the drawing is framed so closely it cut the back of his head clean out.* Dammit, Jimenez! *sad sarcasm That makes sense, I hadn't considered that. Isn't Diggle going through personal trials when the season returns? Maybe moving toward resolving them during the crossover, and this is why (if) he's not suiting up? Still no excuse for Spartans helmet not being in that top right corner, but... I still can't wrap my head around it, either. Nate not being there after they put so much effort in promoting his character was odd, and Kid Flash even more so since he's also related to the bride and groom. But it occurred to me that, like Felicity, they are also having their own mini-crossover prior to the big four way (on Legends? The trailer wasn't clear...) - and Felicity will be in an entire episode. Since those three are already being promoted cross-show in the lead up to the two-night, maybe they wanted to use the poster to showcase the newer characters the audience might be less familiar with, though it won't necessarily reflect their screen time? I don't know, I'm still disappointed that Martian Manhunter apparently won't be making an appearance. Why. Well, now that we've seen the poster, my thoughts are leaning heavily toward Earth-2 - there Cisco had to convince E-2 Killer Frost to help them, and this despite having just lost her Ronnie, and having been terrified of Cisco's own E-2 doppelganger Reverb, and not knowing our Cisco at all. I'm wondering if they might not do the same thing with Alex and Overgirl - sort of playing off the theme of connections enduring through worlds and universes - or simply have them interact in some other small but significant way. Its just a theory, but it's where my mind is going. In total agreement on the second part - as a poster upthread mentioned, those covers often featured characters who barely appeared in the story. For all we know, the extent of Wild Dog's participation here may be him jumping onto the scene, attack dogging Dark! Oliver, getting an Arrow to the butt for his trouble, and flashing a thumbs up at the camera as he limps off screen.

I have a strong suspicion that it's together and not married (at least I hope not if only to spare us the extra angst) and it's going to lead into a long "finding their way back to each other" storyline that lasts into back half of the season. Or it could just be their way of adding drama while keeping him busy with the Legion? I've got nothing. Besides Alex, it seems. She's meeting Sara and Captain Cold! Does he come back early in the season? Do the Legends drop into Supergirl? Or vice versa, since they're closing crossover? The scheduling must be ridiculous, it's going to be insane seeing how it all ties together. Particularly with Arrow following Supergirl. What's the throughline?

New episode titles released: http://www.spoilertv.com/search?&max-results=50 4.06: When Harry Met Harry 4.07: Therefore I am Is Harry meeting new Harry and commiserating with him about the previous incarnations demise over coffee? How very meta. I think, therefore I am? The Thinker reveals himself? Caitlin takes full control of her powers (therefore I am)?

First look at David Tennant and Michael Sheen as Crowley and Aziraphale: http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2017/09/18/first-look-tennant-sheen-good-omens So it looks like it's now expected to launch globally on Prime Video in 2019, and will air on BBC Two at an unspecified later date.

I don't think they have, but they should! I'm Rip Hunter. I like Rip, but I wonder if I got him for the same reasons I got Dexter Morgan.

Agreed. I am...shall we say less technically proficient, and even I do this or catch up on the app. So strictly in regards to numbers that could be less affected than it once might have been. And even with all of that I think that alot of tv's are on during holidays - especially after the tv boom. It's what we do at least after big holiday/family dinners, so it looks like we're watching Arrow this year! As to the second, she wasn't actually an undergrad - she and Barry went away to college at the same time. When we meet her she's actually a graduate student finishing up her degree in (according to early interviews with the actress) Criminal Psychology. The problem is as a PhD student (she mentions working on her dissertation) she shouldn't need an undergrads elective courses (journalism, which she mentions in the same conversation) so it can get confusing. The perils of sloppy writing. There have been some good points upthread about how they can better utilize her skills, but honestly with Harry M.I.A, Vibe now with Kid Flash in the field, and Caitlin currently absent (coming to terms with her own powers, likely putting her out there with them more often too once she's under control) someone at the lab needs to be manning the desk, and why shouldn't she be there? They're all operating on a skeleton crew absent their leader and just trying to hold things together right now. I get where you're coming from about lack of faith from the network, but I think the original poster was just surprised as many here were about the odd scheduling. I know I was. But it's worth noting that as of now almost everyone is releasing a holiday episode - I believe Flash and Legends are airing on Halloween. The only one to escape so far is Supergirl, (and even as a watcher, that's.. probably for the best) so at least in this instance I don't think it's a case of network neglect. Or maybe they're just using their superhero properties as guinea pigs to test run holiday viewing data. Who knows. At this point I wouldn't put anything past them. ?

Thanks, Trini - that does make sense. I think for me it's that bending the origins of Wally and Linda (and Eobard with Eddie especially, though I didn't see that as 'bending' so much as 'illuminating newly important history') are okay with me because they allow them to tell this story, this interpretation, in a fresh and unpredictable way, without erasing who they are, or even necessarily all they bring - it leaves the door open to tell those stories or bend them to this one. With Bart, bending his origins in this particular way not only erases where he comes from (important!) but who he comes from, the past/future/past between the families/the family, and every single storyline that comes along with it. Could there be ways to bend them around a new status quo, it's possible...but yes. A conversation for the comics or speculation threads. I'm pretty sure the print on the wall says "I.D must be visible at all times" - county lockup or mental health hospital? If Barry's found wandering a road naked and mentally unresponsive I'd believe the truck drivers would be kind enough to pick him up or stay with him and call for help. Central City just seems like that sort of place. Argh. They have made such a point of stressing that Iris and Barry's butting heads is going to be a humorous affair that will resolve their issues and strengthen their relationship that, fandom wise, this is what I'm more worried about. The soon-to-be wife and best friend butting heads where the groom is concerned is a time honored, often funny, character revealing tradition that eventually brings all parties closer. In-universe, it's going to show us exactly how they're deflecting and coping with Barry's loss and solidify the team dynamic going forward. Outside? It's going to be yet another outlet to funnel character hatred through and fuel complaints for months. The issue itself will likely be met, worked through, and resolved with hugs and stronger bonds and new clarity in two odd hours of t.v. time, but seventeen episodes later it's still going to be, "remember when Iris had the nerve to question Cisco about something she knows nothing about in a space she has no place in?" When the issue - I assume about how or whether to (try) to get Barry back - will have never really been about her way over his, but about deflecting her pain where the entire situation is concerned. Cisco, once that becomes clear, will understand this. The viewership...won't always show her the same consideration. Which is fine, honestly. Everyone has their opinions, and simply finding her uninteresting or resenting her existence doesn't make them wrong, even if I don't agree. Granted some people wish she would fall off a cliff, but by all means, to each their own. No one is being forced to like or even tolerate her, but keeping in mind that this is all speculation it is still tiring sometimes knowing that no matter how well explained or even justified her actions or reactions are, the hatred directed at her will just keep getting tossed around, and we will just keep getting hit with it. But onto happier subjects...I saw that video! I thought she was just referring to the girls night, but if it means outside of that then I'm all for it. I'd love for her to meet the other casts. Just toss them all into a snow globe and shake it and see what happens. When it comes to crossover newbies, I don't care who meets who as long as it's someone they've never met before. So excited. Less excited about the rest, but not feeling hopeless just yet. Grant and the E.P's have all said the season is planned out from start to finish. We already have alot of information about the first part, and it's going to be absolutely packed with great stuff - and we haven't even started filming the crossover yet. But we know nothing about what the storyline is or where the characters are going after Christmas break. No plans regarding that as of yet doesn't mean no plans at all. I'm willing to wait to see what they are. And if all else fails, it's early enough days that they can still incorporate that into the existing plans for her in the back half. And yes to Breacher's introduction being in the Halloween episode! That is perfect. And unless I'm mistaken, isn't that also where they're going to introduce Elongated Man's powers? I think we're meeting him as Dibney beforehand, but the actor was in that episodes set photos with Danny Trejo so maybe that's when we see him in his alter ego? Bonus points if someone references or carries a machete.

Super Season trailer! AKA "Flash Pass":

Super Season trailer! AKA "Super Grill":

Super Season Trailer! AKA "Cold Brew":

You are not alone! He's such a big awkward softie and I think he'd be hilarious. And speaking of, has anyone posted these CW Super Season trailers yet? They are so cheeky, I love it.

I think the simplest answer is because Diggle is awesome. Everyone wants a piece of him. Near strangers deciding on spontaneous nuptials because they heard he was going to be officiating? Sounds legitimate to me! ? (Yes, I'm joking, but I see no lies.)

Regarding Bart, this has been coming up quite a bit lately, and I'm a bit at a loss as to where exactly it's coming from. My guess is innocent musing elsewhere that somehow mutated into a prospective future plot point and gravitated to wider fandom, but I've seen no indication, none at all, that they plan to do this or even know anyone is expecting it. I think the back to the future situation you mentioned is more likely, and in a world where time jumping it is in fact one of the cornerstones of the Flash mythos and a major, major part of Barts story specifically, why should they change it? What would that accomplish, besides crippling all related storylines?* Where is the appropriate thread to discuss this, I have thoughts? (*to be clear, this isn't at all an attack on you, Ruby - I'd just like a better idea of the where's and why's if you can help since I have no idea where this theory originated from, so I can better explain why changing Barts origins is a hard no for me.)

That promo somehow managed to make the wait to October 10th seem even longer. Thanks alot, Flash. As to your points: .Like Barry, they're probably consciously trying to preserve his boyish charm by keeping him baby smooth. As we've now seen, keeping the both of them this way 24/7 is a mistake, because yowza. .Cecile taking all of this in stride really makes me wonder how the CCPD reacted to their missing CSI being brought in by the D.A wearing nothing but a few months worth of attractive facial scruff and a blanket. What on earth has Joe been telling everyone about his whereabouts since spring? And will they finally admit that Captain Singh knows already? .No one knows the particulars of Barry's lanky frame quite like Cisco. He probably spent months lovingly fitting it, framing it, stitching on the little golden lightning bolts...you know, all perfectly normal things. We all cope in different ways, Trini! .I was saying elsewhere that that truck driver probably just got the thrill of his life, and with any luck so will we. If they can give us burning bras with ladies from two different shows, they can give us this! .I think this, too. And as she did everything but clasp her hands and bat her lashes, this has the potential to be both clever and cheeky. I like it. .Yes. Always. It's going to be a continuing source of amusement for me these last few weeks before the premiere how this marriage quote is going to be taken and run to the ends of the earth by fan and article speculation alike. Because not only could I not be less worried at this point, but I'm absolutely delighted. It's exactly what we've been waiting for. Years and years of their stories and Flash history have been framed around navigating the world of rogue spreeing time bending body swapping secret identity-ing death and resurrecting Superheroing together, and this is the start of all of that. It's the start of everything! How could we not be excited? And speaking of... This is amazing, and so sweet. It's always wonderful when characters (in any medium) connect with someone, and even more so when the people bringing them to life really love them. I hope someone's shown this to Geoff Johns, and Flashtv too. I love it.

Respectfully, any actor by definition is putting on a costume of sorts whenever they practice their craft. This isn't a matter of using disability as a costume, but of playing characters who were coping with disability - and in my humble view, doing so very well. That said, all of this Supergirl discussion has been fantastic - the in-depth character discussion, relationships, mythology, speculation, everything. Great food for thought for the rest of the break. Really looking forward to digging further into alot of the points brought up here and in Supergirl forums when I have the time. Really good read. ?

Gah! Naked Barry! They let Grant keep his summer scruff for the premiere! Timely promo drop! Thank you for posting, can't wait for Arrow and Legends. That is a sad truth, but probably not the whole truth. Because wrapped up in this understanding, if that's what it is, is in its very nature a solid misunderstanding of a diverse viewing audience. We need more female presence behind the scenes badly, and more open and diversified minds full stop (regardless of race or gender) to tell these stories. Stories where every character, regardless of what they "do", is loved and respected and explored by the writing so they can be cared for and connected with by anyone. It needs to be more than, "Hi, my name is 'Mask', and despite lazy characterization, I am important to this story for this reason. Hi, my name is 'Scientist, Every Last Field And I Mean All Of Them', and despite being little more than a bundle of quirks conceived as a one and done, I am important to this story for that reason." Artemis and Tracy Brand were both treated as plot points, but I cared because I cared about Artemis' story (execution notwithstanding) and I loved Tracy's character. Not because Artemis had a bow and Tracy was a scientist. Those are important parts of who their characters were, certainly, but those weren't the reasons I cared about them. It isn't why I care about Iris. But because the former two are solidly supporting characters, their treatment isn't quite as glaring as it is with the main female characters. To be clear, I am agreeing with you, (and apologize for going off on a tangent) and understand exactly who and what you're talking about. You'd have to be blind not to see that the misogyny at the viewer level doesn't extend behind the scenes. I just can't agree, based on a few seconds of a thirty second clip, that it extends to the marketing here. If lady hating hearts everywhere are soothed by seeing her menaced by giant samuroid, as opposed to, in their minds, doing something useful (thus bringing the hatred!) that's not something I can help. But if anyone behind the scenes tossed that in for that specific purpose, it would be staggeringly naive. No matter who she is or what she does, prominent female characters in a story will always be hated by someone, will always be weighed and measured and stacked against each other, will always be set up at some point to see who is worthy, in their story, of existing as exactly she is. And that's where the misunderstanding I was talking about comes in, in that they believe that they have to appeal to those viewers to do it. They don't. The hatred from those particular viewers, whether its framed as stemming from this character being useless or that character not staying in her place will be there no matter what, because it's the same hatred. Usefulness, their place in the story, whether they are deserving of it are just convenient excuses for it. But misogyny runs much deeper than that, and that is the bigger reason why the rest, unfortunately, is already being done for them.

Thank you! Agreed, I thought it was a banner for a moment myself before the background came into focus around it and then you notice how 3-d it looks. It still might be (it's such a quick shot), but if it is a statue it is huge.

That makes sense. Scheduling as you mentioned probably has something to do with it too (filming more action shots for Arrow and the Killer Frost vfx from the girl's night episode, etc.) but I wish the releases weren't going to be so disparate if we do end up waiting that long. And for goodness sake... ...leave it to the network to carry on charading when literally all the Arrowverse EP's have been confirming and denying major plot points for all their shows for weeks now. This is why we can't have nice things. ?

Already posted in the Supergirl thread, but CW released her official season three trailer today: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irH6gtcR4Dk So hopefully that means the other shows aren't far behind? I can't remember how timely the consecutive trailer releases were last year. The only one I'm thinking might not give us much new material is Legends since they just released another trailer with Vixen, but I'm still expecting an upcoming official vid for them too.

Supergirl Official Season 3 Trailer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irH6gtcR4Dk I spot a Girl of Steel statue behind Alex at 20 seconds! Is this at the event from the Comi-Con trailer? (Edit: Sorry the video isn't embedding.)

Oooh, I'll join. For me, it would have to be Kara's Mxyzptlk'd Vera Wang. It was stunning, most of all because it was stunning on her. My jaw dropped even knowing full well it was a throwaway joke, and not being much affected by things like that in general. That's impressive. It's also why Caitlin's gown worked so well for her. Pick the gown to suit the girl, and it'll beautiful. That said, I can't see anything tightly stitched and overstructured for Iris, either. She has such a lovely figure I feel something more simple and elegant would bring out her beauty best. More silk than tulle, clean lines, long and flowy. Perhaps a tasteful slit, since she falls on the petite side. The possibilities!