Lilly77

I laughed the most at Julian's tremendous plan of hiding from the ruthless, cunning mastermind who had just tried to have her killed at her parents' house! And for the sake of plot convenience, it somehow worked because he never thought of checking for her there. Have the writers never seen an episode of any cop show/FBI show etc.? The bad guys always check the parents' house! She was really callous about that cat. It could have starved to death. Alec really creeps me out. He is up to no good. I quite like the 'new' Bell. It hurt me to see Bruce Greenwood playing such a nasty character.

I like Tyler, but thought the swelling orchestral music for his and Michael's goodbye and kiss was so over the top it nearly made me laugh. I really liked Po. She gave the show a lot more spark. And her treatment of Georgiou was extremely funny. I hope they don't kill off Jett Reno. There's so much potential with her character. The Culber/Stamets thing is treated as such an afterthought on the show it may as well not be there. A few 30 second discussions by or about them scattered over a handful of episodes does not a relationship make. That being said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Culber didn't evacuate to the Enterprise after all and is still on Discovery somewhere.

The fact they didn't immediately suspect Gant was the silliest part of this episode. It was so obvious! They make wild leaps of logic that are invariably right, but they miss this? The Stamets/Culber thing could be great, but they are handling it in a series of weird isolated interludes that never seem to come together into the audience seeing these characters are destined for each other or the relationship is worth saving. At present, it seems that Culber had a lucky escape from being alternately ignored and micromanaged by Stamets, which I don't think is the impression they wanted to give us! I agree with MissLucas, they'll stay estranged until Tilly babbles them into reconciliation with virtually no discussion or contact between the characters themselves prior to the reconciliation. Unless Michael 'heals' them with the power of her Michaelness. I loved the first two Tig Notaro appearances, but this one was a bust. I just want to see her arguing with Stamets and Tilly over their work. Anson Mount is fantastic. I'm going to have to go back and watch his past work now (I've seen him in Inhumans, but that doesn't count, no actor got out of that trainwreck looking good). I also like Ethan Peck and his deep voice and gravitas. Like others, I'm wishing for a Pike's Enterprise spinoff instead. I also wondered why the Klingons are blue. They aren't even trying for the slightest bit of continuity there.

This was a very strange episode. Everything seems to be working for this show except plotting. Visuals, acting, characters all work, they just have such dumb things to do sometimes. Ariam's funeral was a bit too long. I thought Georgiou was actually trying to help fix Stamets and Culber by being so provocative. I don't know what is going on with her character as it is so inconsistent, but everything certainly is more interesting whenever she is on the screen. I actually am a Tyler fan. but his hair sure was weird this episode and he's not best utilised in a role which forces him to be a passive observer most of the time. And Georgiou's extensions were indeed uneven and seemed really dry and unkempt. Were the hairdressers on strike?

I think it is Michael. It is always Michael. The search for Spock has gone on a bit long. I was starting to wonder if this season's twist was going to be that Ethan Peck was only going to be in one episode.

That ending was so creepy, both with them all meeting and then with the silver smile guy approaching the children in the shop. Sent shivers down my spine. This was a great episode. Lots of character development and John actually standing up to Kreizler, at least in some things. Sara seems to see Kreizler quite clearly now. Lazlo really does push people away, hard. It is surprising they keep coming back really. I keep thinking of what Daniel Bruhle said about Kreizler being an uncertain teenager with women, because otherwise that scene in Mary's room was just too creepy. Loved seeing she was reading Louisa May Alcott's 'Rose in Bloom' - it's a great book. It was a wonderful scene with the film. I had never considered what it must have been like for people watching a film for the first time. I also wondered where Marcus was having sex. Was he in the apartment next door or something? Was he wandering some hallway in his nightclothes? Inquiring minds need to know.

I only think Kreizler is hot when he's in a scene with Mary. Talk about chemistry. I am fascinated by the layers of their clothing, such as when he was taking off his shirt. The corsets were terrible for Sara of course, but those starchy pinned on collars, the tie thingy, the shirts, waistcoats and jackets can't have been all that comfortable to wear either. They must have been dreadfully hot at times. I guess it would all encourage good posture as slouching would cut off either breathing or blood supply. I am really struggling waiting for a single episode week to week. I really want to see what happens next straight away!

I'll have to watch again, but at the moment I'm appalled I spent time watching this series. I stuck with it, defended it, and really got into the middle section of episodes. But the last three made me have to acknowledge I wouldn't have watched it to the end if it didn't have Star Trek in the title. Lorca's sudden descent into moustache twirling villain (and a dumb one at that) then his death, Emperor Georgiou as Captain of the Discovery, L'Rell stopping the whole Klingon war (as others have pointed out) with something nobody would have believed, Tyler going with her (The Klingons still hate humans. Or anyone genetically different. They would just kill him! Also, didn't the Voq part of him essentially die, leaving just his memories?), Culber is still dead, and they did perpetuate the whole kill your gays thing. Now if indeed that is the Enterprise at the end they are going to do something absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable with that too. Maybe I'm just really tired and a rewatch will leave me in a more positive frame of mind about the show, but at the moment - ughh.

I actually liked Moore better in this episode than in the first one. I thought they gave him some more layers, and also a bit more explanation about why he would be friends with someone like Kreizler, which I had initially wondered about. I felt quite sorry for him, even before the super creepy ending and his obvious terror at being powerless and at the mercy of gangsters, whereas in the first episode he seemed to me to be a bit slick and smarmy. I was intreagued with Kreizler in the first episode but actually am a bit hesitant about him now. That thing when the two women were picking up the broken dish and he was watching them - he seemed delighted about something, and I'm really hoping that it wasn't the fact that his housekeeper was visibly upset and kept looking heart-brokenly at Sarah. Then he just destroyed John by saying he had no use in the group, provoked him by speculating he was interested in Sarah (does Kreizler relish the idea of competing in a love triangle with his friend?) and watched him walk off at night. It might just be the bits I focused on particularly during my first viewing - I will have to rewatch - but Kreizler seemed a bit sadistic or at least carelessly cruel to those who are supposed to matter to him during the episode. I continue to be heartily thankful that I was not born in that time period. Life was tough for the upper and lower classes, particularly for women.

The more I think about it - Lorca's grooming might have been to make her into a rebel and reject the way her society is organised, rather than the sexual stuff. Maybe he wants Michael, the emperor's 'daughter' to take over from the emperor?

I just didn't believe Georgiou when she said that about Lorca and Burnham. I assumed she was manipulating her and trying to win more of Burnham's trust for herself. I will be really disappointed if it is true - the ick factor is pretty high, but also it would have to signal the end of Jason Isaacs on the show and I really like him. I hope he stays in some shape or form. Fascinating episode, it kept my interest all the way through. I hate that Culber still appears to be irrevocably dead. How have they avoided the bury your gays trope they were so anxious to say they hadn't fallen into? They hardly had time to establish the relationship to the viewers at all, and then its gone to generate angst. Though I guess, who else could Tyler kill that would have any real impact on the audience? We actually only know a few of the characters on the Discovery at all, and the rest are so undeveloped in the background that their deaths would not be as shocking. Not sure what is going on with Tyler now. I really liked his character in the beginning, and hoped rather than believed that the Voq stuff wasn't true. Now it is - I'm a little bored with it? I think because at its most basic it was preposterous to begin with: why would someone so fiercely invested in Klingon purity allow himself to be surgically and irrevocably transformed into someone in human form, and how would he ever expect any other Klingon to believe in him or follow him at any point in the future? That seemed to be the goal initially, when he wanted to take over from T'Kuvma. The whole Klingon thing, especially when they have long conversations in Klingon, have been tedious in most places.

I got confused a bit as to how much time had passed. It explains Bo's actions more - but it does make the sex at the hotel a bit more questionable when it only was a few hours. Which kid carries so much money that they can afford the hotel room and the trip to the city for them both, after they ran from the hospital? Having watched it through again I think it was a good resolution and consistent with the tone of the rest of the series. I didn't really find the conclusion shocking either, unless it was shocking that he didn't kill Phillip and had a crisis of conscience after so long?

I thought Bo was off drinking because finding out Lukas was gay showed him how little he knew his son and how far apart they really were if Lukas wouldn't tell him or think it was OK to tell him, rather than the gay thing itself. His speech when Lukas was unconscious sort of built that up for me, that he was afraid the sound of his voice would actually cause Lukas a problem rather than reassure him, and that he was worried he didn't know how to talk to him. However, I agree he should have been at the hospital working through it all rather than leaving Lukas alone!

I enjoyed the series. I was glad they didn't kill off Lukas or Phillip, or Helen or Gabe, as I strongly suspected that at least one of them would have died for dramatic effect. I too was surprised the boys ended up consumating their relationship at that time, with Lukas' gunshot wound and all. However, the story wouldn't have felt complete if they hadn't worked that in somewhere. I liked the careful emphasis on consent and on protection - and Lukas laughing at Phillip finally getting to use that condom he'd been carrying around. I liked the scenes with Lukas' dad. I thought they were done well and the actor really sold how difficult he found it to relate to his son, even though he really loved him. Another site mentioned the possibility of a season 2 with the same actors. Not sure where they'd go with that. Maybe one and done would be better for a series of this type - a season two would be quite contrived, if centred on another horrible crime.

I am interested to see how it all works out. There has been some obvious manipulation of the plot to make things work out this way - as a huge consumer of police shows, I've never seen a police department so happy to share evidence or jurisdiction, ever - I want to see how all the different relationships work out through the resolution of the investigation.

I remember that MASH episode - I think it was the finale 'Goodbye, Farewell and Amen'. It was the first thing I thought of too, with the baby being smothered. I wonder whether they will give us more details in the final episode, or just leave it vague? Hopefully the missing boys helps Helen focus rather than spiral with her still unresolved PTSD. I am wondering what is going to happen to wrap everything up, as very little can be told from the trailer, but I am rather worried about Phillip's mother.

Thanks for explaining the crime. I must admit I thought I'd missed something because covering the affair didn't seem like enough of a reason to embark on such carnage but that was it. I have paid much more attention to the different relationships on the show than I have to he crime itself. Has Bo gone off to think about his son being gay, or does Ryan have him? The trailer for next week shows Ryan with Phillip's mother.

Thank goodness Helen has figured it out now. I agree proper policing seemed to be abandoned in this episode - but I guess everyone besides Tony is falling apart in some way. I still don't have a completely clear idea of what drove Ryan to kill in the first place, and then keep killing though - sheer psychopathy? Good to see the boys together and Lucas calming down when Phillip pointed out the obvious to him. Rose came across as decent, for the first time, though her character could have been developed a bit more earlier to round things out. Gabe continues to appear an excellent father. So, in his own way, does Bo, wonder where they will go with that character next week?

I don't think the shooting was some moral statement - because it was in the original, including the Phillip character's fear of the water. I think that Phillip coming face to face with the killer is going to basicallly be how things are resolved in the finale. I am curious to see whether Helen figures things out more or less on her own before that.

I think that gabe and Helen both know about the boys now. Lukas was all but kissing Phillip in that text photo and gabe smirked when he saw Phillip go to lukas's bedroom. However I don't think they have put it together with the fishing cabin - as far as they know Lukas was still punching Phillip in the face at that stage. Lukas lack of concern for Phillip got on my nerves this episode. He is the eyewitness at the moment, but Phillip actually saw the guy and was seen. He's supposed to be in love with him - a little care on his part would be nice. Ryan is just so creepy. He would be quite happy to kill everyone there to get away without being caught. Helen has to catch on soon. I wonder if he will go after Lukas in the hospital?

Worse, he snapped the dog's neck with his hands. He could have avoided the dog. He is so creepy - that final scene when Helen was calling him for help and he was standing there behind a tree listening to her was chilling. I still am not a hundred percent sure why he felt he had to embark on this whole death rampage anyway, except for his being psychotic...there must have been other ways to hush certain things up.

At this point I'm not sure either whether the father is bad or just Lukas is afraid of his reaction. As soon as they had Phillip be afraid of water, I knew they were going with the part of Oyvetine that I liked the least. I was hoping they would ignore or change it. It will happen in the next episode or two. So glad to see Lukas sort himself out a bit and the boys establish some kind of a caring relationship.

I've no doubt that the writers did not intend us to read Lukas as totally selfish, and for the story to be really engaging he cannot be, however how I feel (and looking at the comments here and on other boards) most of the time that's how people have interpreted him - for the better part of six episodes. I do think his softening could have come a little sooner or he could have been played a bit differently to show more of him being conflicted about what was going on, to avoid repeatedly giving and reinforcing that impression. Coming out of the pantry in the cabin could be interpreted as much an act of self-preservation as anything: once the bad guy had discovered one person hiding he would surely look for others. However, I didn't take it that way. Actually almost everything Lukas has done that is seen as a positive could still be construed as self-interest, even admitting he was there to Helen as not wanting to lose Philip himself rather than thinking about the implications for Philip's life. We needed more of the conflict when he actually was committing selfish acts to reinforce that his other, more positive actions were actually not selfish. A lot for me depends on how he acts next episode.

I just feel like I've been cutting him slack for too many episodes in a row now - but I have hopes for next week showing a different side of the character. I work with teens and so many abused teens allow themselves to be emotionally manipulated or treated badly by others who claim to care about them, and I guess I just see that in how their relationship has been presented so far. Right from the beginning he's just been so focused on himself, like when Philip turns up saying that he's seen the killer on the bus, and Lukas' first thought was, 'and you led him here?'

Rose is written as dense, and she's hard to empathize with. Usually I would see a female character who was being lied to, filmed without her knowledge, having a sex tape distributed and being manipulated by her 'boyfriend' for his own ends and be outraged on her behalf - however, she is such a flat character and seems so nasty, not to mention dense, that I just completely overlook how she is being treated. Lukas is just so awful for most of this episode He might have come to the realisation at the end that he had to do what was right, but being so self-absorbed since this began makes it hard to believe he is worth all this drama, and it really is too little too late. Phillip looks out for him, Lukas looks out for himself. Not the basis of a great relationship. I think your 'drama queen' tag is pretty on-point here. Gabe seems reluctant to fully oppose Helen. Helen does indeed seem to want to believe the worst about everyone - and be almost triumphant when she is right about something bad.