AllyCat7
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Posts posted by AllyCat7
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23 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:
Kenny was being diplomatic because he was on television and he knows how much certain people freak out when you say the word 'racist' in public. Unfortunately minorities are often forced to minimize their experiences and keep quiet because many people don't like to be reminded of their major privilege or face being educated in these types of situations. That's my theory, anyway.
Well if that's the case then that is really upsetting. It's hard to make a judgement call when there are conflicting messages being thrown around. At the very least, I don't like the way it was handled...as others have pointed out since my last post, it seemed unnecessarily harsh. But I know he did wrong, too. I wish none of that had to go down.
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3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:
Aw. Poor Lee. Lashing out by calling black men 'aggressive' for simply existing in the same room with him is a good way to deal with this!
I didn't say his behavior was right, did I? I was just reiterating what Kenny said about his motivations. Please don't put words in my mouth.
7 minutes ago, Kira53 said:If you had seem the whole season you might have a different impression and a different point of view regarding Lee. The men didn't see the season, they lived through it. The men saw and experienced a lot more than the audience of Lee's behavior. Their point of view was based on how a lot of them were targeted and treated and not just a tweet. The tweet was the icing on the poop.
Ok. Then they should have said that on the show. They kept focusing on that one tweet. I am thrown, though, on what Kenny said. He said he didn't feel that Lee's behavior was stemming from racism. So how does that weigh in all of this?
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4 minutes ago, cryptaknight said:
They were not overly harsh. The evening ended with handshakes and hugs- which was more than Lee deserved, to be honest. If he is not racist, his behavior says otherwise. If he really "hates racism" as he said tonight, then why leave that tweet on his account once it "got out there"? Why behave as he did toward Eric and Kenny in the house? He said what he said and did not express regret for it until tonight on the show. That tweet was over a year old. It was also not the only problematic tweet he's made. You said upthread that you did not not watch the entire season; you might not be seeing what the rest of us saw when it comes to Lee, in that case.
Are you upset that everyone ganged up on Lucas, too? Because everyone had a lot to say about Whaboom! Likewise, Demario. Lee got a lot of focus because the things he said affected a lot of people, and because he was dishonest with Rachel and affected her relationships with Kenny and Eric with his dishonesty. But he was not the only man who came under fire tonight.
Idk. It just sits wrong with me that being called racist is somehow worse than actually doing racist things.
You are right. I didn't see the whole season, but I did see how he was towards Kenny and it made me very upset. I was pissed, trust me. I felt so bad for Kenny...he was my boy. But Kenny said that he didn't think Lee's behavior stemmed from racism as much as jealousy or some sort, so I will take him on that. As for other incidents in the house, I can't speak on that. And I didn't see any other of his tweets. I was just speaking about the one in question that they were showing on the ATFR show--the one that they were using to peg him as a racist. If they had more evidence, they should have showed it. I will look it up myself now. I still stand by what I said that that one tweet alone doesn't prove that he's racist. I will continue to do more research. Also, I NEVER said that being called a racist is worse than being a racist. I cited just a couple of things that could be pegged on non-racist motivations (his behavior towards Kenny and the one tweet about the NAACP). That's all I can speak about because I haven't seen the rest. Of course being a racist is horrible. I know that.
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3 minutes ago, Nowhere said:
Regardless of whether or not Lee knows what the NAACP does, he clearly knows what the KKK does. Show me where the NAACP ever lynched a man or burned a cross. It's a ridiculous comparison.
I know it's a ridiculous comparison, but I know what the NAACP is. Maybe he never heard about it until recently...maybe he grew up very sheltered and in a homogeneous environment. He was a buffoon to speak of something he had no idea about. But I still don't think that makes him racist. He didn't say anything derogatory towards black people as a race. he just made a really stupid and ignorant statement about something that he knows nothing about. He admitted as much and apologized. Why must he admit to being a racist on top of that if he doesn't think he is?
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Just now, cryptaknight said:
I'm not sure why anyone would be so invested in defending Lee. Even if you somehow can't see that he engaged in racist behavior, both on the show and on Twitter, surely it's obvious that he made statements that were harmful and hurtful. I can't imagine wasting time feeling sorry for a fully grown man who can't use a search engine or visit a library for some reason.
I didn't defend Lee until tonight when I saw how harshly all of the other guys were towards him (even after the apologized)--to the point of making him admit to something he truly felt he wasn't. That wasn't cool. I did NOT care for Lee or defend Lee until tonight. I found him just as annoying and troublesome as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that he should be attacked by the whole house and to be forced to admit he is racist when he might not be. That is not a word or accusation you throw around lightly.
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31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:
Oh please. He compared the KKK to the NAACP and put the KKK in the favourable light in that comparison. It takes 2 seconds of research to know how fucked up and disgusting a comparison that is. There is zero reason to defend this.
For goodness sakes. Pointing out extreme racism is not bullying. My god. Ruining his reputation?! Why are you so worried about that? He dug his own grave with those tweets. Why is your concern defending Lee over defending the NAACP from what he said about them? What has Lee ever done for anybody except be hateful?
That is exactly how Lee should have looked at his tweet about the NAACP. Lee can tweet that about the NAACP without any evidence to back this up, yet nobody's allowed to call him out on his racism, for which we have evidence?
I just.....
Being ignorant about what the NAACP does to the point that you compare it to the KKK does not automatically make someone a racist. He's just ignorant and has really bad judgement. Him googling what the NAACP does would have cleared things up for him, but he didn't, and, for that, he's stupid. I know it's all the rage to throw the label "racist" at people these days, whether they are truly racist or not, but that doesn't make it right or accurate. You can keep throwing serious accusations at people who you don't know based on unsubstantial evidence. And I will choose otherwise. We will NOT agree. And that's ok. Bye.
Just now, cryptaknight said:Dude. If Lee doesn't want to be seen as racist then he probably shouldn't be making incredibly racist statements via Twitter, and he shouldn't have been targeting black men in the house, making up false stories about them being aggressive toward him. He deserved everything he got, and all he did in response was give lip service about wanting to "learn" and "be educated." It takes 30 seconds of googling to figure out what the NAACP does. It's not Kenny's, Josiah's, Anthony's, Will's, or Rachel's job to educate him. If he wants to learn so badly, there are resources out there. For me, it was very telling that he looked utterly confused when Anthony was trying to point out to him that he may have innate prejudices that he's unaware of simply because of the way he grew up and that he needs to unlearn them. Then Lee had the gall to respond to Anthony with the well known backhanded compliment about how well-spoken Anthony was. God almighty. Lee has no interest in bettering anything other than his public image. He's lucky the rest of the men decided to go high and hug it out or whatever.
I don't feel one iota sorry for Lee. In fact, I wish they would have taken the time to dig into some of his misogyny, as well. If he wasn't already sucking so much time away from the rest of the men there, that is. I feel sorry for men like Alex, who seems lovely and didn't get a word in tonight, or men like Adam and Matt who barely appeared on the show despite making the top six because Lee's antics took up so much air time.
Did it ever occur to you that he could have been picking on the black men because he was THREATENED by them? The bachelorette was black, so he probably felt that the black guys had the upper hand. Even Kenny admitted as much. Kenny himself said that he felt that Lee was just in over his head and felt that the other guys were better. So you would take your own views over Kenny's who was not only in the house but also a target of Lee himself. I think I'll go with Kenny on this one.
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I cannot speak for all of Lee's actions because I didn't watch the entire season. But I didn't like how the men practically forced him to admit he is racist when he may not feel that way. His tweet, although wildly ignorant, isn't in itself racist. He obviously doesn't know what the NAACP does and needs to be educated about it. But what he wrote is different from someone saying something like "all black people are like this or that". He was ignorant and uneducated and a fool to speak on things he was ignorant about. But for people to force him to admit that he is a racist was rather extreme. That is not something to put on someone unless you are 100% certain of it, as it can really ruin someone's reputation...and I don't think there was evidence to pin that on him 100%. Even Kenny admitted as much. So why was it ok for all the guys on The Men Tell All to bully him into admitting that? Not cool.
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I know I can't convince either of you but just wanted to say that I don't agree. I don't think any of the contestants are good enough actors to have pulled these claims off. I do sincerely think Ben loved both women...whether he was IN love with both I don't know. But it's possible to love two people at once, just as how we can love more than one friend or family member. As someone stated in a past post, he could have had more of a friendship love with JoJo and more of a romantic love with Lauren. And I think both of them loved him, too, and both wanted to marry him. JoJo seemed genuinely upset when he dumped her. And, as has been reported in numerous outlets, Caila was the original pick as bachelorette and they made a last minute switch when they saw the social media backlash against that choice. JoJo, while not perfect, was more popular than Caila, so they went for that to get better ratings. They also probably realized that the unwritten rule they to never choose the runner up as the next lead was silly. And they made more wiggle room in production schedules to accommodate what, in their minds, was a better choice.
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You mean you didn't know that ministers do nothing but pace back and forth while reading Scripture??? :)
He wasn't even reading. He was briskly flipping through the pages lol
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Thanks :) But I'm not saying I've never felt it. I feel it less as I've gotten older, as I've gotten more comfortable with myself and also develop a stronger trust in God.Well, that's nice. Of course there's a difference, you are not envious of other people's happiness. Some of us are. We are not taking anything away from the other couple. We would just like to have that happiness as well for ourselves. It doesn't make you any better than the envious ones. How many people have said they would love to have a marriage like their parents or to find long-lasting love like so and so? That is envy without using the word envy. Good on you for never feeling it.
Maybe JoJo meant it in a way that you are saying. I hope so.
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Couple of questions
2) When Lauren made a bunch of complaints about Ben on Jimmy Kimmel, was she at least ASKED to complain, and she kind of had to search for examples?! Don't tell me she brought these examples up out of nowhere!
Haha yes she was asked. Jimmy asked if they discovered any annoying habits of each other's yet. She mentioned the heavy breathing and he mentioned how she nitpicks him when he prays loudly before bed.
I really didn't like the "training" comment. I don't know why a man would let a woman emasculate him like that. It's not cute and it gets old after a while, I'm sure.
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No, you're not saying the opposite. Jojo prefaced her statement by saying she has looked at other people's relationship and been envious of what they had, meaning she would love to have a happy, healthy relationship like theirs. Then she said she would like others to look at what she and Ben have I feel the same way. That's how much she believed that what they had was a good thing and maybe others would want it too. Isn't this the essence of role-modeling. What is wrong with that? Why are people manufacturing reasons to demean and hate Jojo? I also didn't think her family was as bad as others make them out to be. Her brothers are protective of her, so?
When I see happy couples, Ben and Lauren for example, I am not envious. I am happy for them. I am not even thinking of myself in that moment. Do you see the difference?
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No way they last. Lauren complained on Kimmel that Ben's a heavy mouth breather, prays too loudly and tries to wake her up too early to spend time with her (but said she's trained him not to do that any more already). If that's her cute personaliity that production hid from us, I'm baffled by Ben's choice. It's way too soon to be that annoyed, especially about the way the supposed love of your life breathes. It's not like he can stop breathing...
Interesting you should mention this. I saw it, too, and it wasn't until this morning that it hit me that maybe she isn't as sweet as she came across on the show. The "training" comment was emasculating and the nitpicking seemed too much. I can see Ben tiring of that after a while. I'm not as sure of them as I was before. Hmmm
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I did see a red flag when she said a few times that she wanted people to be jealous of her relationship like she had been jealous of others.
This right here. This stood out to me as well. Definitely an awful reason to choose a guy or to get engaged. I hope this mentality of hers changes before her stint as bachette.
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So glad they didn't choose Caila. Now I can continue with the franchise :)
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Hell All :) I've been trolling here for a while and finally joined. It's been great reading your posts all season :)
I wanted to add my thoughts on Caila. I agree with LakeGal. When I saw the clip again tonight, her tears did not seem very genuine in the car. She also didn't cry or get very emotional when they played back her summary reel tonight when she was in the hot seat (while all the other girls did). I find her her very robotic and disconnected. It's for that reason I would hate for her to be the next bachette. She really needs to do some self discovery and self work before she's anywhere close to being married.
I gave her all season to grow on me but it never happened. If she's the bachette I'm afraid I won't be watching.
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S13.E10: The Men Tell All
in The Bachelorette
Yeah, you pegged me to a T. I don't like seeing people cry and get hurt---even people who have done wrong--especially if they feel bad about it. The 1 vs 20 setup made it seem like it was an unbalanced situation and he was nearly in tears. I know he was a jerk, but like who wants to see someone crying on national television? His reputation is already tarnished. No need to pile it on so thick. I also give him credit for apologizing. I hope it came from the heart and that he learns from this.