mangosplums

Because there ARE differences between males and females. We have different organs and are affected by different hormones. Our bodies do different things. Women can get pregnant, can give birth to children and then spend the first year of the child's life breastfeeding, men don't do this. That's a HUGE difference between the sexes right there. On average men are larger than women and can over-power women in a physical confrontation. Most violence and rape is committed by men. These are differences between the sexes that are real. Refusing to acknowledge these differences does not help anyone and ESPECIALLY does not help women. I think as feminists we seek to minimize the differences between the sexes because we are afraid if we acknowledge them, then men will twist them to justify misogyny and oppression, as they have been doing for centuries. So in an attempt to combat misogyny and oppression we try to pretend that men and women are exactly the same. I think this is misguided and actually in the end hurts women. When we say anyone can be whichever gender they want regardless of anatomy and hormones, a male can call themselves a woman, and a female call themselves a man, regardless if they've even gone through any sort of medical transition, we are redefining what sex actually means. If we redefine the words girl/woman and boy/man, which have always been descriptive words for the sexes (female/male), to mean, well, in the end nothing really, then statistics on how females are discriminated against in the workplace or elsewhere will be rendered meaningless if males can be recorded as if they are women. The crime statistics likewise will be rendered meaningless if crimes committed by males are recorded as if they have been committed by women. This is especially true regarding sexual crimes where females commit a tiny percentage of such crimes. What it means is there will be a increase in sexual crimes recorded as if they have been committed by lesbian women, when really heterosexual men have committed them. Females will also no longer be assured a female health care provider etc, if a male is legally classified as a woman. And locker rooms and bathrooms will no longer be safe spaces for females to be away from males. How are we supposed to fight for our rights and advocate for ourselves as women, if the category of women (meaning biological female) is erased from society? How are we supposed to fight for protection and rights over our bodies, for healthcare coverage for woman-specific health issues, for protection in the workplace if we get pregnant or need to care for young kids, if the word woman no longer means person with vagina and womb? These are the problems that we run into if we decide that the distinctions between the sexes are meaningless, and try to enact a genderless society, or a society where man and woman is based on personal feelings instead of biology. I am all for someone like Jazz getting to be who she truly is. The problem is when anyone can call themselves trans even if they haven't gone through a transition and have no plans to, and when gender no longer seems to have anything to do with biology. I was under the impression when I first learned about trangenderism that it was an uncomfortability with one's sex, a desire to change one's sex, and then actions to do so. But now it seems to have little to do with that, and plenty of people are trans without having gone through any transition, while still being affected by the hormones of the sex they were born with.

That is not transphobic. Nobody has a right to tell anyone who they should want to sleep with.

I think because the doctor wants her to have an orgasm before she gets the surgery and she needs to have a bit of male hormones to do that first. I don't think Jazz was saying she didn't want Noelle to be vocal. Noelle was encouraging Jazz to argue with Tomi if Tomi got aggressive, and Jazz was saying she didn't feel comfortable doing that, she wasn't saying anything about what Noelle should do. Also the bird scene was really staged. I get the impression that Jazz is very attracted to guys, and seemed very attracted to Shane #2, but she's too unhappy with her own body and worried about how it'd be perceived to go on with dating right now. What you said in your edit Well she found one person in Shane, so there's hope. That is VERY interesting.... your sure about that? Where'd you find that info?

Maybe he is experimenting with his own sexuality or maybe he does have mild aspergers. Does it matter? He likes Jazz and seems nice.

That's 20 percent who still go on to experience gender dysphoria into adulthood.

Jazz's grandpa is really annoying. I know the boy she went on a date with might have been some sort of hired person... but he seemed genuinely into her and I thought it was really sweet.

Didn't mean to imply the other friends haven't been vulnerable at all, they have, but we haven't gotten to know every little detail about them like we pretty much have with Jazz. Everyone has flaws and ugly moments, and we simply haven't seen Noelle's, Mya's, Shawn's or Lynn's yet. All I'm saying is that if Noelle got a show of her own, her faults would probably start to show and everyone would end up disliking her and endlessly complaining about her. Because human-beings don't actually look that pretty when you get so up close. In general Jazz seems like a pretty cool individual to me.

If people got to know Noelle or Shawn really well like they do Jazz, they'd end up disliking them too. Always the way it goes with these shows. People idealize the friend because we don't know his/her faults yet, and pick apart and criticize the person who's actually being vulnerable and showing us her life.

Oh I understand that, believe me. My question is where does gender identity come from? Does Jazz identify as a girl because at 2 or 3, she liked barbies and dresses more than trucks and dinosaurs? It doesn't really matter how accepting Jazz's family is towards her gender expression. It takes a village to raise a child and society teaches children that girls like barbies and dresses and boys like trucks and dinosaurs, just as society teaches us that men want to have sex with women and women want to have sex with men. We all know now that all of this is ludicrous, there are plenty of boys who like traditionally girl things, and girls who like traditionally boy things. But the messages that we send kids is that that isn't possible; if you want wear a dress and play with barbies, you are girl. I'm just wondering if Jazz's desire to be female comes from a very early desire to be able to live as the person she is, someone who wants to wear a dress and play with dolls. And if her fear of male puberty comes from this. What I'm saying is if we didn't have gender roles. And men could wear dresses and make-up and it wasn't considered weird, and if we didn't separate children by their sex, would Jazz still grow up with a female gender identity, and desire to change her body at puberty, or would she see herself as just a really feminine guy, and be fine with facial hair and a deep voice? It's hard to know.

I was just watching a special from when Jazz was a child, where she said she felt like a girl and wanted to play with barbies and wear a dress. Back then that's all being a girl was about for her. I kind of wish someone trans posted on this forum to get their take. Is it really body dyphoria that Jazz is experiencing or is it just about gender roles? If we let boys wear dresses, play with barbies and dolls, like pink, have long hair etc.... and let girls do all the boy things, if we didn't separate children by gender at all, just let them gravitate to whatever they liked.... would any of this be a problem in the first place? Is this really about Jazz not feeling one with her physical body, not feeling male, or is it about not feeling like she fits male gender roles? Is it about our society not accepting people for who they are? If gender roles didn't exist and men could be as feminine as they wanted, throughout their whole lives, and women as masculine, would Jazz and other transpeople feel the need to change their bodies? I wonder. Then again, I don't know, maybe it is about the body and if we raised children in a gender-role-less society, someone like Jazz would still become hopelessly depressed and suicidal when she hit puberty and realized she was going to develop a beard and deep voice.

Can you imagine what it'd be like if you were male? I try to think of myself if I were born male and I think it would be awful. I would hate being a guy. I've always had female interests as a kid, dolls, barbies etc. I don't think they were ingrained in me by society, I think they were natural. I relate to people in a typical feminine way. I like having soft skin, a body without body hair, and a voice that's not deep. I think if I were male it would always feel like it didn't fit and I would dislike my body and long to have a female one and just be a girl.

Dear Impatient, I haven't taken offense to anything you've written, just having a conversation. So don't worry about that. Who says that Jazz is going to start kissing someone without letting them know she's trans? She's never indicated that she would do so... Exactly. Jazz blocking testosterone and taking female hormones means that she has gone through the inward changes to become a woman. Again, if she were just about outward changes, she'd be a drag queen. But she has effectively become a woman on the inside. Her hormonal profile is that of an adult woman. If there were brain scans done on her, her brain would look the same as yours or mine because it went through growing up as a girl. Jazz looks like a woman because she is one now. I'm not saying she's exactly the same as a biological female in every way, but she's now gone through the majority of her life with the same hormones as a female. Hormones are what creates the differences between the sexes, right? So... Of course it's ok for cis women to rule out dating trans men! Of course it's ok for cis men to rule out dating trans women! No one should feel compelled to date anyone they don't want to or feel like they are obligated to be attracted to anyone that they aren't. Where do you get that idea? The world is a diverse place. There are all sorts of unique people in it. Attraction is different for everyone. And there are so many people who's attraction does not fall into the "normal" category. Especially with young people. I don't know how old you are, but I get the impression I am closer to Jazz's generation than you are. People of Jazz's age are so much more comfortable with gender identities and sexualities that fall outside the norm than people of older generations. Jazz is going to have a harder time dating than the average girl, BUUUUT that does not mean she can't find a guy who is genuinely attracted to her as a trans woman. You'd be surprised how many people's sexualities are not all cookie cutter. I don't think so. I think this is about living a life that is satisfying and happy.

So very set-up by production. I feel part of the reason that dating is being pushed on Jazz is to make the show more interesting, provide material. Without dating woes, all you really have to put in the show is bottom surgery stuff, there's nothing else going on in Jazz's life. They shouldn't be pushing Jazz into dating, but without it, what else is there to put in? I don't think Jazz is ever going to blame her parents for any of this stuff because it's all her own decision. She wants to be a girl, she wants bottom surgery, she wants to take hormones. Though she is young, she's very strong-willed, and she is choosing to do this stuff herself. If she ends up regretting it, she'll regret it as her own mistakes.

Watching the whole therapy thing with Jazz gave me flashbacks to when I was teen. My mom also forced me into therapy. I did it because I was forced, but it didn't help me. For it to have benefit the person needs to be choosing to go there themselves. I understand that Jeanette feels overwhelmed and worried, but I'm not sure what exactly she thinks therapy is going to do for Jazz. I see a huge issues in their family with helicopter parenting that is getting in the way of Jazz maturing emotionally and gaining independence as person. Jeanette is doing more harm than good with her over-monitering of Jazz's social, emotional and love life. When Jazz said she wasn't feeling depressed and that she could handle her emotions herself, Jeanette responded that Jazz couldn't. IMO that is the opposite of what Jazz needs to hear. As a parent Jeanette should be trying to encourage Jazz to feel competent, and by telling Jazz that she is incapable of handling her emotions, she is telling Jazz that she is incompetent, and inadvertently stifling her burgeoning sense of self-reliance and development. They also should not be forcing Jazz to talk to them before and after every single social interaction Jazz has. They need to back off a bit. Not letting Jazz handle anything on her own will end up causing the very thing they are trying to prevent. I know Jeanette means well, but type of helicopter parenting is damaging to a person's development, I speak from experience. I do think Jazz acted rudely in that situation with Shane, but she is 16... most teenagers tend to be immature and messy in dating and social situations, but most teens are lucky they don't have cameras on them for their very vulnerable and sensitive first dates. You really can't expect Jazz to act perfect. Rejection and messy situations like that are part of growing up, for both Jazz and Shane.

I honestly think that Jazz's lack of sexual attraction and desire has more to do with her body dysphoria than anything. She shows quite a bit of attraction to boys, but I'm sure she doesn't feel comfortable starting to explore it yet because of what's between her legs. In terms of developing actual libido.... that I can't say.