jjj
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Posts posted by jjj
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Another odd moment in this episode -- I found it very strange that Charlie made Thursday come to London to hear that his money was gone, and told him outdoors in the dark. Why not take the train to Oxford and tell him in Oxford? I thought it was going to be some kind of setup for an incident that would hurt Thursday, as I did not know if he would be back next season. Now that I look back on it, there was no reason to drag him to London for a 2-minute discussion when it was the brother who was totally at fault.
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Morse really was those boys' worst nightmare -- not a green teacher, as they thought, but an actual hardcore disciplinarian who did not give a fart about whether they liked him and who had no interest in continuing as their teacher!
Random thoughts: as someone said above, why did the matron take off the shirt and put it on the ground? Why not dump him with the shirt on? And again, so creepy the the boys would (a) pick up the shirt, (b) take it back to school) and (c) save it to "scare" Morse. Had they been holding on to it for days?
I could not figure out why the headmaster was so intent on creating an alibi for himself with his daughter.
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6 minutes ago, magdalene said:
Wasn't there a scene cut out that explains his affection for her? That she reminds of his daughter who died young.
Yes, something about a daughter who died as a child. I am not sure if Bright made the connection, but we are meant to infer it.
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15 minutes ago, Dessert said:
I thought I had already replied this, but it didn’t show up, so I’ll try again. LOL. I apologize if this is a double post.
I do think both examples were foreshadowing. Fancy wasn’t careful enough with surveillance (although he didn’t have much choice in this instance) and it probably got him killed.
Bright’s crew was really left in the dark, with tragic results. The transfer to Thymes Valley doesn’t bode well for our guys. Should make for some great drama, though. There is treachery afoot. They’d better watch their backs and sleep with one eye open.
Yes, I understood your radio reference as well as the Trewlove one! Indeed, both foreshadowing. Honestly, they did not give us much reason to pine for Fancy, except on behalf of Trewlove, who had already put some distance between them.
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2 minutes ago, Desperately Random said:
That's what I thought. I figured he waited until all the shooting stopped and then went in. There was probably some unknown person(s) who were also watching and followed Fancy in and took him by surprise.
Or he could have been ambushed in his car. Either way, I believe Fancy was unaware that he wasn't the only one keeping an eye on the pub.
And who knows? Maybe this third group are the ones who somehow facilitated the massacre in the first place and knew what was going to happen that night. I'm sure we'll get answers next season.
I really want a flashback to what happened. I feel like they set it up in a way that meant the event would be revisited -- that was too much stagecraft for just a quick gaze by the camera.
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3 hours ago, Driad said:
Can someone explain the episode title "Icarus" please? I didn't see anyone flying, unless you count the drugs.
In the first class meeting, Morse has the boys read the Icarus story from Ovid’s Metamorphoses, (Morse said "lines 225 to 230," which are the lines where the wax on his wings melts and he plummets to earth).
There is a lot of plummeting to earth in this episode (Nero's gang, Ames' gang, Fancy, Ivory, [the drug-killed student], officers killed pre-story in the lorry accident) -- the body count on this episode is more than any two seasons of the "later" Morse series!
2 hours ago, M. Darcy said:This is what IMDB suggests "The title might refer to Eddie Nero's ambitions for his son Brett, sent to a private school to improve his social status; or to Cromwell Ames's vaunting ambition in attempting to take over the Oxford underworld; or to the pretensions of Coldwater School, which result in some of its pupils becoming fascistic, or addicted to heroin, or even murderous; or perhaps the Icarus of the story is George Fancy, attempting to take on gangsters at the cost of his own life, or even Endeavour Morse himself. By being too strict with the young constable, Morse may have inadvertently pushed him to excessive and fatal risk-taking"
1 hour ago, Dessert said:I don’t get that either. Icarus is usually used as a metaphor for tragedy caused by hubris or reaching for the impossible, but I’m not seeing the connection to this story. It also has the theme of a father’s grief over his failure to protect his son or causing his death. One boy died before the episode began. Maybe Fancy was supposed to be Icarus. Bright’s crew was left in the dark about the underworld connection to the school. Thursday said he would have handled things differently if he had known and might not have put Fancy in harm’s way. Morse’s class was reading Icarus. I would love to read an explanation.
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4 minutes ago, Dessert said:
Yes, I remember that Morse was furious with him for playing the radio during surveillance and calling attention to himself. That was definitely foreshadowing.
I hope we’ll get more of a forensic analysis in a future episode. For instance, was his gun drawn? Had it been fired? Were there fingerprints or any other evidence in the car?
I actually meant using the communications radio to contact the station. Trewlove had told the thug visitors in a car that they were attracting attention by parking illegally and using their radio.
When you look at the style of those two visiting policemen, it is not surprising that it was Bright's unit that got shuttered. Those bullies and their bullying unit were destined to win. Alas, it happens too often, that professional bullying works.
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1 hour ago, Brattinella said:
Those dreadful boys, besides reminding me of Children of the Corn, also brought to mind The Stepford Wives. ( I was also hollering at the TV)
Heh, I was watching and thinking "Village of the Damned" (1960, British) -- truly low-budget and truly totally creepy children!
39 minutes ago, Dessert said:I’ve decided that Fancy is Icarus. His going into a confrontation between to groups of armed mobsters with no back up was just crazy. He was jealous of Morse and did want to impress everyone - especially Trewlove - but that’s nuts! I originally thought that the killer might have caught him watching them, but surely they would have just shot him in his car. Maybe the killer was part of another group and dragged Fancy into the bar to throw the police off and make it seem like he was killed during the battle.
I don't think Fancy went in on his own -- because he was shot by some unknown third faction/persons, it seems he was ambushed and then deposited on the scene. I did think he was a sitting duck, alone in a car on a street where he was completely visible and the only other car! And on the radio! (We knew from a previous episode that Trewlove advised against using a radio while doing surveillance -- and I realize he had no choice, but her earlier warning was a reminder that he was doing something dangerous). I wonder if they will revisit that crime in a flashback re-enactment next season?
It was eerie to see the aftermath of the shootout, but not to see or hear the actual extensive shootout at all.
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7 minutes ago, magdalene said:
So happy about your tagged info, jjj, thank you!
Not a fan of the mustache.
I think the official term for that is 'stache -- ? Hard to believe there are only 15 or 17 years between groovy Morse and the Morse we originally met in the 1980s.
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40 minutes ago, magdalene said:
Well, I hope Bright changes his mind about quitting - I would really miss him.
I never warmed to Fancy, Morse's dislike of him may have rubbed off on me. But what a sad end for him. I am assuming they will try to solve his murder during the next season?
I spoiler-tagged some information about Bright over in the Media thread.
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On 7/27/2018 at 1:01 PM, Popples said:
Warning: All the spoilers!
Shaun Evans shows off new-look 'Endeavour' as series six filming begins.
Yes, that is a lot of information (but no plots!) for the next series. One article linked above said there will be four episodes in the next series. I will spoiler-tag one of the returning characters that I think will make readers of this site happy:
SpoilerBright will be back! So he did not resign after all. And Thursday, as we already knew.
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What a wonderful episode, and I'll be so pleased if Thursday is in the next series. Now I can read the Media thread, with pictures from the next season!
Secret word in the credits was "Ubermensch," representing the concept of a super Man in German philosophy -- it was one of the references made by the boys who initially talked to Morse.
Those schoolboys were utterly creepy.
Oh, wow, I just read something cut from the PBS short version: in the British longer version, it is explained that Bright was fond of Trewlove because Bright and his wife had a daughter, Dulcie, who died young. There was a picture in the cut scene of the daughter sitting on a horse in what appears to be India.
Holy cow, I just read in one of the British papers that this episode was TWO HOURS LONG in Britain. Can anyone confirm this? That is a LOT to cut out to get to PBS length.
ETA: I finally found the running time for this episode on ITV, and it was 89 minutes, so not a full two hours of story. But as another poster pointed out, they show these with commercials on ITV, so the entire programme is actually two hours. But they all are, so this was not a longer episode, contrary to what the British article said. Sorry for the confusion!
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39 minutes ago, Ladyrain said:
Yasmin looks so pretty today, hosting the 4:00 show. It's so refreshing to see a pregnant woman wearing something that looks cool and comfortable, instead of the saran wrap clothing that's so "in" now. Having been pregnant twice, the thought of being strangled in clingy dresses at 9 months along would have been a non-starter for me. Yasmin's white (I assume cotton) flowy top/dress is beautiful on her. YMMV
Thanks -- caught the end of her hour (I never watch the Sunday shows!). Didn't see the whole dress, but saw what looked like a comfortable white long-sleeve top styled like a business shirt. It did look summery yet professional!
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Completely agree, and said this above on 07-21, but with less detail.
3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:I might be stating the obvious, but the handoffs serve a purpose for MSNBC, which is to keep viewers glued to the channel. You're thinking you'll just watch Rachel, and while you're doing that you suddenly find that Lawrence is there, inexplicably, and now Rachel is gone and you're just watching Lawrence, and you never quite made a decision to do that, but here you are.
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1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:
Ari has acknowledged the awkward handoffs on his show that same day. For his one year anniversary show on Friday. He had the best awkward moments on his shows and he included the ones with Katy. He was poking fun at himself and the required handoffs...
Aha! I'll have to watch the show in the app -- that changes the tone of Katy's tweet and her reaction to his handoff to her on Friday evening.
ETA: Or.....I could watch the video that Jaded helpfully provided! Thanks! TPTB need to realize that some handoffs are just not meant to happen. (I do like Ari Melber, just not in joke mode.)
1 hour ago, Ohwell said:Yeah, so at least he's self-aware.
55 minutes ago, Jaded said:-
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On 7/21/2018 at 7:44 PM, Apprentice79 said:
They should keep it short and sweet. If it goes on too long, then it stops being spontaneous and organic.
There was a Friday evening handoff of Ari Melber (filling in for Rachel) and Katy Tur (filling in for Lawrence O'D), so a reverse of the usual handoff between them, from Ari to Katy. Katy made a point of noting this, and said it was *her* turn to "throw you off your game", so she made it very clear that she does not like the awkward joking that Ari provides. I was trying to find it on video, and no luck, but did see this additional critique *before* the show on her twitter account, to Ari, who had just posted that he was filling for Rachel. Said Katy: "I'm filling in for @Lawrence which means there's a bonus awkward handoff to end the week." Ouch.
On 7/21/2018 at 7:40 AM, Ladyrain said:I hear ya. I watch Rachel (love her and her 'tutorials') but that extended hand-off is too much even for me. When it's Lawrence'e turn, it's his turn. (I love him, too). I think I read somewhere that when they occasionally would do that, TPTB got such positive feedback that they more or less instructed Rachel and Lawrence to make that a regular thing. Sometimes it goes on so long that I get uncomfortable.
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Noooo, Rachel was cut off in the middle of a sentence about the new rule about "the NRA does not have to disclose its major donors." Did anyone else experience this interruption? NRA bot or Russian bot taking over my screen?
ETA: Noooo, it happened *again* at 34 minutes into the show, in the middle of a sentence about Diane Feinstein. Car commercials both times.
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14 minutes ago, Dessert said:
The headline was about the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City, which took place in October of that year. I think they also referred to it in the episode.
Thanks, and the headline I saw was about the first manned Apollo mission, which was October 11, 1968. (That was when the bowler-hat spy had the papers under his arm. By the way, I assume he doctored the page of phone records that Morse wanted to see early in the episode.)
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Well, I'd watch a series of the Bagshot character involved in intrigue. But this was a very different type of episode, and so many subplots. Funny that the dog of the bowler-hat spy was named "Winston", and I thought Morse would end up taking him home.
Secret letters at the end spell out: ROYAL PECULIAR -- and those two members of the Royal Peculiar branch were indeed peculiar. It would not have surprised me at all if they had turned on Morse at the end. Who was running away from the shed? And what secret signals were needed in Oxford in 1968?
I thought the newspaper headline from from summer 1969 (moon landing?), but I must have seen that wrong, because we are clearly still in summer of 1968.
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56 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but I actually thought that dress was quite cute & youthful on her. Her bursting out laughing was delightful!!!
I completely agree -- I think I commented on her dress above, on the day of the interview. It was a very fresh looking dress, and it worked for the more casual atmosphere of Aspen.
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I just saw a promotion for this on my television, and was really having trouble understanding why it was being revived (with two or more of the original characters?), and why on earth is was being set in San Francisco. How very peculiar. I liked "The Bletchley Circle" and I like San Francisco, but together it would be like roast beef in a trifle.
On 1/18/2018 at 10:19 PM, dcalley said:Weird!
On 1/11/2018 at 2:13 PM, Caia said:In the 'completely unexpected revivals' category: The Bletchley Circle:San Francisco is being revived by BritBox and ITV.
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3 hours ago, Ladyrain said:
I hear ya. I watch Rachel (love her and her 'tutorials') but that extended hand-off is too much even for me. When it's Lawrence'e turn, it's his turn. (I love him, too). I think I read somewhere that when they occasionally would do that, TPTB got such positive feedback that they more or less instructed Rachel and Lawrence to make that a regular thing. Sometimes it goes on so long that I get uncomfortable.
I agree that TPTB must have said that the handoffs are good for keeping viewers tuned into the channel at the hour change. I got screenshots of Katy's three (3!) handoffs yesterday, and they tell the story of when it is a good idea and when it is not. Will try to post later today. I hope MSNBC is paying attention to where the handoffs actually make the viewers look away!
3 hours ago, Ohwell said:I agree, but even they can take it too far. I don't watch Rachel, I watch Lawrence, and sometimes I find myself yelling "get on with Lawrence's show!"
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25 minutes ago, Ohwell said:
Katie Tur has been subbing for Chuck Todd, and the handoff from her to Ari Melber has been painful to watch. They're both trying too hard to be funny and witty, and it's not working at all. Just stop it.
Completely agree! I know Ari is trying to be cute, but it is now coming across like that office worker who keeps complimenting you and not thinking you are appreciative enough about comments you never wanted in the first place. Starts pleasant, but then verges on inappropriate pressure. Two days in a row now, spending way too much time in the handoff about Katy's voice and whether it is holding up. Then trying to make up for the pressure by saying "you are only losing your voice because of the outstanding work you are doing." Just "Bye!" would be fine, Ari.
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11 minutes ago, M. Darcy said:
I need to rewatch this week's shows. Apparently, Rachel sent us a Secret Signal this week to stage a coup this weekend. She needs to do better because I totally missed it.
It took me a while to figure out what the heck this was. Thanks for the alert(?!). For those who care to click, the link goes to a Wonkette piece on Rachel and a video of a lunatic who claims to be right-wing, but who makes the actual right-wing look like The Peace Corps. According to him, Rachel has indicated that we will all show up this weekend and basically have a French Revolution at the White House, complete with guillotine.
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S05.E06: Icarus
in Endeavour [V]
· Edited by jjj
I don't think she knew much at all about what happened with Joan last season. Remember how completely broken she was? No way was Thursday going to tell her anything that would upset her.
In the Charlie episode this series, I believe Fred Thursday said that he would have to check with Win before making a major loan. I had the impression at the end that he had actually talked with her -- something she said at the end like, "well, that's that, then." Now I think it just meant, "there they go," but at the time, I think we were meant to think (at least, *I* thought) she was saying, "well, kiss that money goodbye". But I thought it was a few hundred or a thousand pounds, not the Thursdays *entire* life savings. Weren't there pensions for public servants in Britain in the 1960s? I thought the country was socialized enough that no one was expected to live off of their own savings in retirement -- otherwise, most of the country would be working until they dropped dead on the job.
Poor Win, I wonder where they were in the ballroom dancing competition at this point? It is November 11 when it ends, and the previous episode was in middle to late October (Olympics went almost to the end of the month).