jjj
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Posts posted by jjj
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I guess this third hour is still live, with the shouting dear leader in front of the helicopter? (Still 5:30 AM out here; I have trouble identifying "live" versus repeat hour some days)
It jolted me awake when I heard him say Anthony Bourdain had died. What another shock. Maybe Joe/Mika covered that earlier? What a terrible loss.
I didn't mind that they provided all the shouted question scene. Did he really say O.J. instead of Ali at one point, for a pardon? I did appreciate that the camera cut away from him to show the glum reactions of Sanders and Bolton as he kept spinning impromptu sentences to the gaggle.
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Wow, the opening segment in Thursday, about the architectural firm that closed down eight hours after being approached about links to the Trump intrigue.
I am watching the repeat show, and as she is talking about the Justice Department seizing NYT reporter emails, I am reading that the Senate aide whom she referenced was just arrested, hours after Rachel was reporting on the story.
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Joe just said "Monica Lewin's life is ruined," and I went who is that? Then looked up at the chyron and saw they were talking about Bill Clinton.
I must have missed a Bill Clinton interview on another show. Mika' vouce is trembling with outrage.
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3 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:
Nussbaum's dissection in the New Yorker of the garage scene (which is chilling) is the best I have read and I think (suspect) is spot-on to what the writers intended ... Paige's demeanor and guilt-suggesting exclamations/admissions again suggest that Elizabeth never "really" explained both "what to do" and "what not to admit" (hint: anything to anyone). I suspect that Stan will appreciate her lack of wiles.
Thanks, and I will hope to find this in the Media thread. That is the only scene I watched again, because so much was happening beyond what was said.
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The one moment that really took my breath away and shocked me as it happened was Stan walking into the garage and heartily saying "HI, WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING?" I expected him to trail them or call the FBI teams. But just walking in there -- shocked me. I could feel all of their blood run cold. (But man, all the fake friendship Philip expressed for Stan was as believable as Philip saying the car was a loaner and their actual car was in the shop. This tells you how fast and convincingly he was lying throughout. Salesman, for his family's life. And Elizabeth did not hesitate to use her daughter as an emotional hostage. "Stan, it's *Paige*.")
The moment that had me laughing hysterically was Philip saying "She might be one of us." I was expecting some sort of reveal about her, but that was just hilarious to me. I could not even focus on them driving out, because I was still laughing. (Such a reaction because I was waiting for it, and I did not expect Philip to spill the alleged beans..)
The most moving moment for me was Philip tearing through the train compartments to get to Elizabeth after they both saw Paige on the station platform. Then they separately glanced at each other and struggled to process this, side by side, breaking protocol to deal with this shock together.
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12 minutes ago, Pickles said:
Paige and Henry could go to Russia and visit their parents in the future. Would P and E ever be able to return to the US without being arrested?
I'm going out on a limb here and saying "no" to any visit of the USA, where they would be arrested on suspicion of espionage and probably murder, etc., and also probably not to any country from which they could be extradited to the USA.
As many posters here have said, the bigger question is whether Henry and Paige would want to visit them -- my guess is that Paige would be much more likely to want to visit them in Russian, when that becomes possible.
Who will pay her rent and tuition now? I was surprised that Philip was willing to cut back on Henry's tuition, but still subsidize Paige's apartment; maybe she had a scholarship at GW for tuition. If it can be proved that at least some of the equity in the house came from the travel agency, would the children be able to share in the profit from its sale? I hope they both have good lawyers; Henry does not need a criminal defense, but he will have a host of legal issues, and will also need a court-appointed guardian. (Maybe Stan, but opinions here vary for good reasons.)
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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:
I asked it earlier in the week and JJJ said that the finale was the START about the treaty, but, that it also had another meaning of A new start. (New beginning) I was hoping she was right, because, START seems to not fit with the word DEAD. And I didn't want that to be the case. lol
Yes, when the question was asked here, it seemed that not everyone was aware of START (the arms deal), because some posters wanted to spell the episode title in all caps like the treaty, and others thought it was "Start" -- and I just said I thought it probably would end up having both meanings, but could guess at who was having a new "start". Turns out mostly Philip and Elizabeth had the new start. Interestingly, Ronald Reagan also had a policy in the early 1980s called "Fresh Start" -- about Middle East peace. I mention this only because it was from the same era! Here is a link from 1982: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/05/weekinreview/reagan-s-fresh-start-is-begin-s-anathema.html
1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:But, it was a little unrealistic that E would not have had a lot of discussion with Paige about what happens IF....she didn't have a bag ready, just in case. Certainly, Paige would have wondered what the plan was, if they got detected. It really fell flat for me, that they couldn't call Paige and give her a topsy turvy code message, she would know what it means, prepare and follow the plan. Her standing there being so ill prepared, like the idea never occurred to her just seemed like more of the same to me.
Absolutely agree -- they were always updating their own escape plan, and I could not imagine they had not had ANY discussion of what to do with Paige and Henry.
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1 minute ago, magemaud said:
Why not a "reunion" type special, set ahead a few years after the fall of Communism?
I can see that if everyone needs some paychecks in the future, there is plenty of unresolved plot that could lead to a followup special.
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3 hours ago, Bannon said:
Yes, because the emotional baggage of his partner being murdered, which was such heavy baggage that it caused Stan to commit cold blooded murder himself, was conveniently tossed off the relationship train, because the writers wanted their outcome.
I know I'm the minority opinion, but the scene, to me, just just reeked of cheap outcome driven writing. As always, Stan is whatever the writers need him to be, at any given moment. I was not surprised at that, because it is what they always did with Stan. They even did it with Phil and Liz in this episode, which bugged me more. The acting was really, really, great, however, making it a worthwhile finale.
I guess I'm in the minority also. This finale could have worked if the writing leading up to it had been different. We did no need Elizabeth slaughtering someone at 10:55 most episodes this season if the plan was to let her escape. We didn't need three FBI agents killed. The preparation for this final confrontation could have been prepared in an entirely different way. But the writers chose a final confrontation that had lying rather than friendship. That's why it was false to me. Because it was not based on friendships, but on lies. And lack of justice. Elizabeth did not have to be so monstrous, leading up to this.
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About the phone call preparation: Philip and Elizabeth telling Paige, "you have to sound normal, and you can't let him think anything is wrong." Then Philip gets on the phone: "I love you son, and we are all so very, very proud of you, we need to be sure you know that." Henry, "You drunk?" Good job sounding normal, Philip.
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3 hours ago, Mrs peel said:
I don’t think that was claudia’s Apt, but a safe house. It was pretty sparse every time the 3were there.
I never thought that was a safe house -- those are for people you need to stash to hide from the authorities, like they did with Martha.
This just seemed like Claudia's sparse apartment, like Gabriel's sparse apartment. It was temporary lodging until she and he went home.
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6 minutes ago, Plums said:
soooooo... the population of Moscow at around the time Phil and Liz arrive is a bit less than 9 million. Presuming they stay there after they're debriefed (safely, away from hardliners who will want to kill them), what are the chances they run into Martha and her daughter somewhere out in public? How awkward will that be? And imagine if Martha sees them together, with "Jennifer" looking like gorgeous Elizabeth, and clearly they're together. OMG. I imagine by that point she may be over it somewhat. You got the sense from her scene with Gabriel in s5 that the scales had fallen from her eyes with regards to what Clark was really doing with her and how he (hadn't) really felt. But seeing it? Oh my god, the pain.
Plus, I think Martha left the U.S. thinking she was actually married to "Clark"/Philip, so she may well believe he is her husband. And yes, I think she will be shocked to see "Jennifer"/Elizabeth with him! I am sure Gabriel or someone who replaced him is keeping track of Martha.
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1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:
And of all the people we saw on the flight, why was only one man listed on the IMDB as an airline guest? Hmmm.....trying to mislead us, I suppose. I also never saw border patrol agents listed.
Two rows behind Elizabeth, in the aisle seat, was someone who looked so much like Erica's husband!
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Henry is the real loser in this -- another reason why the "happy ending" for the parents seems so false. And Henry would have been even more the loser if they had taken him back to Russia. But it sounds like they would have been caught if they had tried to get him at school.
It will be a shadow he carries into the future, although there are many careers where having spy parents will not matter. But definitely closes off some careers.
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52 minutes ago, renatae said:
That was a trip! Some of the things I'd hoped for happened, such as E and P staying together, being on the same page, and out if the spy business. Stan looked a little like a patsy in the end, but I couldn't help being glad he made the decision he did and they sort of had closure. Glad Henry will have him.
I was surprised they went back to Russia. I really thought they'd stay in Canada. The scenes of their leaving were very poignant.
They would have been extradited from Canada.
I have to wonder why Elizabeth thought she would be having a future in Russia, after killing their deputy officer in DC and confessing to someone who appears to have beat her back to Russia. I would expect an inquiry, and maybe Nina-justice.
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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:
It takes one to know one? She was too perfect, much, much too perfect. She liked everything Stan liked, football, his gym, she played racketball, she loved to cook, she had no distracting friends or life of her own, she was never grumpy, she even wore make up to bed. Philip also knew he'd been including random information about Stan in his reports. Voila! Perfect woman just happens to be at Stan's gym right when he is, oh, and she adored him at first sight, and never disagrees with him, and obviously the sex was good too.
Spydar.
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51 minutes ago, Bannon said:
Ahem, what? I never stated or implied the CIA would never do such a thing. I stated that I'd view such a thing as awful, if it did.
So Stan's such a moron that he doesn't grasp the likelihood that Phil was Clark, and Clark killed Amador. Like I said, ugh.
They certainly will compare the Clark fingerprint to Philip's, so will realize he was Clark, and directly bugging the FBI. And then link him to the murder of the computer tech guy? But this means Philip led to the downfall of Gaad.
If they really had just been written as non-violent espionage agents, I could see letting them go. But what a horrible trail of violence they left.
3 minutes ago, Bannon said:The point is that it us ridiculous for Stan not to be enraged about the killing of his FBI colleagues, that he knows for a fact Phil and Liz killed. So enraged that he cannot allow them to escape.
I cannot believe how badly Stan has been written.
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1 minute ago, Bannon said:
He murdered a man due his feelings about Amador, then forgot about those feelings, so the writers could have Stan allowing Liz and Phil to escape. Or they made Stan such a monumental idiot that he doesn't grasp the likelihood that it was Phil who honeypotted Martha and killed Amador. Gene as well. Good freakin' grief, the writing of Stan in this show was just awful, from beginning to end. I almost feel bad for Noah Emmerich.
Someone above in this page quoted a note from Emmerich to the writers saying this. Don't know if it is real.
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1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:
How did Claudia clean out her apt so fast? I mean, it was only a day after she is shown eating her soup with plans to leave, right? It looked like most everything was taken, save the vodka.
And ironically, the message about the coup, which led to Claudia leaving, never did get sent.
Apparently, there were still teams that did cleanup remaining!
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Here's the thing for me: they basically turned Elizabeth into a vicious feral monster this season, killing in truly nasty ways for minor reasons. The military office hitting on Paige, the poor schlub with a girlfriend at the warehouse, the Teacups, more. These were awful, bloody killings. THE FBI AGENTS IN CHICAGO. How could Stan let that go in particular?
If they knew they were going to let her off the hook, WHY make this the most vicious killing season for her?
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3 minutes ago, scrb said:
What was it that Stan called Philip? "Fucking liar" or "fucking piece of shit?"
Because actually, in the end, Philip mind-fucked Stan.
And for the mike-drop, he tells Stan "oh, and you're wife's a Soviet spy too."
"fucking piece of shit" And yes, Philip mind-fucked Stan. Shitty to end with telling him his wife "might be one of us". Because that is not what a "friend" does when departing forever. Passive aggressive move to put the final nail in Stan's paralysis.
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Yes, Stan, we are pretty sure you are right to wonder:
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21 minutes ago, showme said:
You lost me. Paige was not on that mission, remember?
but Marilyn's hair is in other cars in DC, along with Paige's. DNA (new, but being used in 1987) would connect them. I don't think that is enough to send Paige to jail, though. A good lawyer could suggest other ways her hair got there, especially if Elizabeth's hair is in the cars as well. There are going to be a lot of abandoned cars in DC now that the KGB has gone poof, for now.
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2 minutes ago, showme said:
The FBI didn't know that, and they have no proof, as long as Stan doesn't rat her out.
Paige can tell the agency that Stan betrayed the FBI. That is called mutually assured destruction, in arms talk parlance.
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Morning Joe: All Episodes Talk
in Morning Joe
So glad he is doing better-- it's so hard to watch a pet be seriously sick.
I guess all eyes are now turning to ?? Canada, with the G7 and election.