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S5.E15: A Hole in the World

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The Good; Some very worthy stuff here, lovely Spike/Angel and Fred/Wes stuff. Gunn starts to realise the price he's paid for his mind upgrade. Especially love the moment when Fred sings and Lorne reacts, reading her future.

The Bad; The White Room scene seems very unnecessary

Best line; has to be; Fred; "Wesley, why can't I stay?"

Jeez, how did they get away with that? Considering what happened to Glenn Quinn the Burkles remarks about 'Junkie movie stars' are a little tasteless. Also Wes kneecapping the guy who just wanted his fax. Needless to say, hard to watch Fred suffer.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Clichés Subverting the Hollywood cliché; Fred isn't concerned by the sword sticking through Angel but wants the specimen on it

In disguise; 8

DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18,

Cheap Angel; 8

Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out: Fred passes out Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 9 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5

Kills; going to let Fred go out with a bang and give her a dozen demon babies from the nest. Also one for Wes and one for Spike. 4 of Drogyn's demon guards each for Spike and Angel. Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite

Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; Fred to Illyria Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1

Characters killed: 2265

Recurring characters killed; goodbye Fred, liked you but never loved you as I did say Willow. Still, sad to see you go. 12

Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2

Packing heat; literally as here we have Fred as Ripley (before Alien3 ruined the series) packing a flamethrower whilst Wes has his shotgun and a 45 later Wes; 12 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Do Wes and Fred have sex? She implies he's never been there before, do they have sex? Maybe Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky: Fred hints she's had group sex with the varsity lacrosse team. She says she's joking but you know she was doing a lot of weed back then. Fred is in effect orally raped by the essence of Illyria which then gestates inside her, taking over her body (again, very like Aliens)

Captain Subtext; Spike; "You think we should annoy other people?" Couple or what? Spike thinks James Bond's tux is poncey. Say that to his face? Angel doesn't know about Wes/Fred just as he didn't know about Fred/Gunn. Spike and Angel hold hands, hmmmm? They refer to St Petersberg where Anyanka and Halfyrek also hung out, wonder if it was at the same time?

Know the face, different character; 7

Parking garages; 9,

Guantanamo Bay; Lorne hits Eve. Didn't see that coming just as Lindsey won't in NFA

Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.

Missing scenes; According to the commentary this show was very long so plenty of scenes to be restored on a DVD extra

Questions and observations; For my money the astronauts win, they've everything the cavemen have plus science and technology. Lots of Aliens imagery, Fred with a flamethrower, the critters at the beginning, even the 'cow-pat' emblem on the sarcophagus looks a bit like a facehugger curled up. Lovely Wes and Gunn moment over Fred, Gunn almost has you going for a bit. Knox is also very believable. Is Fred mesmerised by the sarcophagus crystal as Buffy was in Helpless? Spike and Angel have never flown in a plane before and seem nervous about it. Their bonding on the plane is lovely. They speak of returning to the UK as the mother country, obviously a long time since they've been home. Spike didn't like Les Mis, neither did I, rather see Wicked again. Like Dianne Warren though and I think secretly Gunn does too.

Marks out of 10; 8/10 good ep but hard to watch

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I just realized that Angel had two storylines with women being taken over and practically eliminated by some otherworldly old and powerful entity. With differing outcomes.

Cordelia by Jasmine and Fred by Illyria. 

I don't want to read too much into this but I do find it annoying that I just realized this. Soo many years later.

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16 hours ago, supposebly said:

I just realized that Angel had two storylines with women being taken over and practically eliminated by some otherworldly old and powerful entity. With differing outcomes.

Cordelia by Jasmine and Fred by Illyria. 

I don't want to read too much into this but I do find it annoying that I just realized this. Soo many years later.

It very much became a male dominated show by the later seasons which is why they


made Harmony a regular.

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I'm of two minds on the Illyria plotline.

On one hand, its fits in nicely with the theme of the continual costs AI is dealing with as part of the Wolfram and Hart deal. A metaphorical corruption with Gunn paralleled by a literal one with Fred, all while Angel having to accept the constant compromises as part of his growing discomfort of his decision. Amy Acker would go on to kill it in the role, and


create an inherently fascinating dynamic with Wesley, that even with the limited episodes might be the second most interesting relationship he had after his one with Lilah.

On the other hand... we're losing a character that still feels like she has loads of elements to explore about her and largely in the tragic, yet less interesting dynamic of being an innocent bystander, not unlike Tara on Buffy. There's potential for great drama in her falling into becoming Illyria, but the inherent problem is that the episode seems emphasized towards the effect on all the characters around her. Wesley's heartbreak, Lorne's anger, Gunn's guilt, Angel & Spike's helplessness. Its all great character stuff, but in an episode about Fred's death, she feels the least explored. '

Its not made much better after a similar element happened with the Cordelia the previous season where her character is (You're Welcome notwithstanding) essentially wiped out in favor of her body being corrupted by another being, and the affect it has on Connor, Angel, etc. Cordy and Fred were richly drawn people with nuanced layers, and it feels unfortunate that their possession/demises feel more about facilitating a showcase of angst and pain of the (largely male) characters around them than the thematic destination of their particular journeys. 

Edited by MerelyAFan
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