Toshiko Sato: Quietly Awesome

[Luckylyn]

I feel like she was a stealth badass.  She seems unassuming but could defend herself and others with her technical skills and even a weapon when necessary.  I wish she hadn't been killed off and allowed to complete her jail sentence so we could see her choose Torchwood or not.  I don't know why she had to die when they could have had her simply quit when her five years were up which would leave the door open for the character to return later.

 

edited to add: I made a typo in the title but don't know how to fix it.  I meant Quietly not Quitely.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Luckylyn

[Chip]

Fixed title. But I think I like Quitely Awesome.

[Luckylyn]

Thanks.

[Dizzy76]

Oh, Tosh!  Outside of Ianto, Tosh is the character that I am most upset about not getting more from.  Fragments was the episode where I watched and thought that we were finally going to start dealing with her character in a more interesting way.  They created such a great background for her in that episode and I can't begin to convey how upset I was when she was then killed off in the very next episode.  What a waste! 

 

I also wish we could have seen more of a friendship between Tosh and Ianto and I was sad that the coffee scene with her bringing him coffee for a change was cut out of Cyberwoman.  I always thought they could have related to each other in ways that the others couldn't understand and I thoroughly enjoy when fanfic writers go there with them.

 

Back to Fragments, it brought up a few questions for me that I would have loved for the show to slowly work through throughout the entire 1st & 2nd series.  Mostly, I am curious how the relationship progressed with her and Jack and how much contact did he really let her have with her family.  They focused so much of her worth on Owen noticing her (even when she was involved with someone else) that they missed all the wonderful potential she had all on her own.

[Luckylyn]

@Dizzy76 I feel like Fragments gave Tosh such an interesting background and put forward more story possibilities for the character.  So it was annoying that she'd get killed off in the very next episode.    I feel like she was so unlucky and that things never seemed to work out for her. Too much focus was put on her crush on Owen.  I feel like since the actor playing Owen wanted to leave they decided that without him Tosh had no use and I think they were wrong.  Tosh on her own was interesting, and there was more to her than loving Owen. 

 

Knowing that Jack was her jailer and that he basically condemned her to death when he gave her a 5 five jail sentence knowing that Torchwood employees who aren't Gwen die within 5 years makes me wish he and Tosh had scenes together that acknowledged that.   They had such a nice vibe between them that didn't really make sense with Tosh's back story.  I realize worse could have happened to her if Jack hadn't interfered to get her out of solitary confinement but still she was forced to work with Torchwood.  It would have been nice to see her complete her sentence and then choose Torchwood. 

[itsmeyousee]

I never thought of Jack as Tosh's gaoler before  Luckylyn even though i guess that's what he is. Cause Tosh had the same sort of freedom everyone else did and she was going to visit with her Family in CJH. So i always put it down to a trust thing, once Jack trusted Tosh all of that went out the window and Tosh didn't have to worry about cause she had Jack on her side.

 

But i do think the show missed out on something but not showing more of Tosh and Ianto together.like you mentioned Dizzy. Their relationship is like Jack and Ianto I guess can be seen in the background more. But those two have one of my all time fav scenes in TW in Reset when Tosh comes up with a plan to get into the Pharm and Ianto thinks she is twisted and how happy Tosh is with his comment LOL

Edited July 4, 2014 by itsmeyousee

[Dizzy76]

I know the real answer to the Jack/Tosh dynamic is most likely that the Fragments backstory wasn't always in place from the very beginning and only came to be because it was needed for the episode.  But it's a good backstory.  And like Itsmeyouse is saying, even if Jack was technically her jailer, somewhere along the way she earned his trust.  A part of me even wonders if most of the things he said to her when they meet/talk was for Unit's sake.

[Luckylyn]

I know the real answer to the Jack/Tosh dynamic is most likely that the Fragments back story wasn't always in place from the very beginning and only came to be because it was needed for the episode. 

 

That's what I figured.  They writers didn't plan ahead and so created an interesting story for Fragments that didn't make sense with what we had scene before.  Making an effort with continuity is something Torchwood writers don't seem that interested in.

 

Fragments added a layer to the Tosh/Jack relationship that never got explored.  It's frustrating because there is a great story there.

[indeed]

Yeah, according to Contrycide, Tosh never met a locked door she couldn't get out of...I guess she counts Jack getting her out of Unit as her beating that locked door, too.

Isn't it great that they gave us interesting backstories for three characters and then killed two of them the very next episode, while giving another less than a handful more before killing him, too?

[itsmeyousee]

I always thought that Tosh in Countrycide made more sense after Fragments. Tosh was very adamant in Countrycide about the "locked door". So when i saw Fragments i thought of it more as a never again statement in Countrycide and they chose that moment to base her backstory on.

 

Her backstory is in a way like Jack, forced to work for TW because of her abilities or she could rot in gaol. But maybe because Jack copped the same thing that's partly why he wanted Tosh , aside from her being very very smart.

[Swansong]

 

Yeah, according to Contrycide, Tosh never met a locked door she couldn't get out of...I guess she counts Jack getting her out of Unit as her beating that locked door, too.

Even in Countrycide we never see her put those skills to the test. They get out in the end because one of the cannibal's opens the door and shoos them out. So is this supposed to be a real skill or is she just fronting? lol Thoughts?

 

 

Her backstory is in a way like Jack, forced to work for TW because of her abilities or she could rot in gaol. But maybe because Jack copped the same thing that's partly why he wanted Tosh , aside from her being very very smart.

There are similarities although I do kind of wonder why Jack stayed and didn't just hightail it onto the nearest boat. He knew he wouldn't be meeting the Doctor for another hundred + years and I doubt TW Cardiff would have chased him all the way to America or somewhere. Obviously if he hadn't stayed there wouldn't be a show, but outside of that I do wonder.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Swansong

[itsmeyousee]

I didn't think Jack did stay in Cardiff all that time. But i will reply longer in his topic

[Dizzy76]

Since in the Ianto thread we are talking about whether or not he knew anything about Jack's immortality (and the believability of him not knowing), I thought I would bring up the fact that even though the extras confirm that Tosh (and Owen) knew nothing about Flat Holm, and that Jack had been working to deliberately keep Tosh from discovering the truth behind the negative rift spikes, I don't quite by it.  Jack's little blog entry for Adrift tries to throw us a bone I guess when Jack writes how he knows it will only be a matter of time before she figures things out despite his working against it.  Still, the way they have set up Tosh's skills and intelligence, you just can't tell me that she would have gone all that time watching the rift and monitoring things without putting two and two together.  

 

And let's for a small second say that she hadn't figured things out by the start of Adrift.  I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have some serious questions once her and Gwen start looking into all the missing person cases.

[Luckylyn]

I feel like Adrift required that other characters be stupid.  I think it would have made more sense for Tosh to stumble onto something and dig into it.  This could have been a Tosh episode.

[Dizzy76]

This TOTALLY could have been a Tosh episode.  I would have really enjoyed that!

[indeed]

She should still know that the Rift taketh and the Rift bringeth back without any new researching...

Edited July 6, 2014 by indeed

[itsmeyousee]

I didn't mind that Tosh didn't know since she was working with Jack's set up and info from Jack. I also didn't mind that she didn't question it, it reminded me of this Planet show i was watching and they were talking about Volcanos that are made from ice instead of lava. And it was a major revelation to them and i was like why ? Pressure builds under the crust then pops it doesn't have to be hot, it has to be pressure. But i'm not a scientist so maybe that's how they think., in a very factual way.

 

What i did mind and totally did not believe was that Tosh kept her findings from Jack because Gwen asked her to. The Rift works completely differently affecting the way Tosh does her job and she agrees to kept it secret, sorry no way, no how. This was so much bigger than what Gwen was investigating.

[itsmeyousee]

A question about Tosh and her sex life or maybe social life is a better term. Is she meant to be socially innocent ? Not ackward but innocent. She is much more innocent than Tommy is and he is a guy from early 1900's . And also in the two eps before hand KKBB and Sleeper, Tosh flirts or talks about flirting at the most inappropraite times. In KKBB with John at the bar while they all have their guns on him and then in Sleeper asking if Jack is flirting with the Policeman who is droning on at the scene and Jack looks at her like WTF LOL.

[Captanne]

"Adrift" as a Tosh episode is a neat idea.

 

It happens to be one time, though, that I'm glad it's Gwen who is so fucking nosy that the whole Plan backfires on her ass.  She comes off, to my mind, looking like a total asshole.

 

I don't want that for Tosh.  Except, as in the episode with the Magic Necklace, she does do "good intentions that backfire" well.

 

I really came here to add that her sequence in Fragments might possibly be one of the neatest dramatic sequences I've ever seen on television.  I just love it.  Particularly the set dressings, the staging, lighting and blocking.

[Swansong]

In Day One she seems surprised by Gwen having a boyfriend even though Gwen's only just started working for Tochwood. I always thought that was a pretty amusing moment. It's probably just poor writing, but if I go by that it does suggest a limited view of the world outside of Torchwood. They're job doesn't allow for much of a social life, so no job could allow for much of a social life? The scene in Sleeper also makes me laugh because Jack isn't actually flirting. He's shooing some pc out of the room, but she reads it as flirting. But I'm pretty sure she knows what flirting actually is so I have no idea what's going on there. I think the scene in KKBB is just supposed to show just how attractive people find John Hart, but I suppose it could be read as inappropriate flirting. They do suggest she didn't have much of a social life and her defining memory is a flat warming no-one comes to, but I don't think she's supposed to be all that sexually innocent though. I just think she's not supposed to have a lot of social skills.

[itsmeyousee]

I guess that's the confusion with Tosh, she does seem to know what's what. But then there are these moments that make me go "really ? you're thinking that now, really " LOL