Novitiate (2017)

[rmontro]

I saw this on HBO recently, it's about a 17 year old girl attempting to become a nun in the early '60s.  I was left with mixed emotions.

I didn't realize that the Vatican II reforms at the time had such a negative effect on convents at the time.  This little bit of history was woven into the story.

The bigger story though, was about Cathleen's decision whether or not to complete her vows.  I don't want to say how this ends, but I found it a little unsatisfying.  The real question to me seemed to be whether or not she was old enough or had enough experience to make that kind of decision.  A 17 year old in our more modern society doesn't seem to be as "mature" as one from centuries ago, plus she has many more choices available to her.  It kind of bugged me that the mother looked like a bit of a hero in the end, while not exactly looking that way in the rest of the film.

The Reverend Mother seemed a little too much like a stereotypical villain.  She seemed like an example of someone who liked to abuse her power.  Power corrupts, and all that.

Margaret Qualley, who plays Cathleen, looks a lot like Kristen Stewart.  I kept having to look again to make sure it wasn't her.

In the end though, it really makes you think about the people who choose such a life, and the way it is set up.  It's a little like the military in that you are expected to obey authority without question.  The "Chapter of Faults" examination would probably be the thing I would have the most trouble with.  

[rmontro]

I see this movie isn't drawing much interest, but I find myself continuing to think about it, so I'll say my piece and let it go.

Mostly it confuses me.  I don't know if this movie:

1)  Is attacking the Catholic Church

2)  Is attacking Vatican II

3)  Is attacking the idea of being a nun specifically

4)  Is attacking religion in general

5)  Is promoting a LGBT agenda, or

6)  Just telling a story, from one person's point of view?

 

It's good that it makes you think, I guess.

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

I see this movie isn't drawing much interest, but I find myself continuing to think about it, so I'll say my piece and let it go.

Mostly it confuses me. 

I can't say I have much to add, but want you to know that you're not alone out there in the wilderness.  If IMDB hadn't shut down the message boards there, you'd have some company to discuss this with.  Some of it has migrated to moviechat.org, and there's a thread for this movie, so you might get some traction there:

https://moviechat.org/tt4513316/Novitiate

I saw the movie back when it came out, and I'm very shallow when it comes to discerning "meaning" from movies, so I won't add much to to the discussion.  I do think the movie was explicitly critical of Vatican II's treatment of nuns, because I came away from it thinking that I would have felt quite betrayed if I had been one of the cloistered nuns in the movie.  And it has to be pretty obvious for me to "get" something like that. 

Most movies to me are in your #6 category--just telling a story.  But I think there was more than that going on in this one.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I saw the movie back when it came out, and I'm very shallow when it comes to discerning "meaning" from movies, so I won't add much to to the discussion.  I do think the movie was explicitly critical of Vatican II's treatment of nuns, because I came away from it thinking that I would have felt quite betrayed if I had been one of the cloistered nuns in the movie.  And it has to be pretty obvious for me to "get" something like that. 

Hi, thanks for the link, I will definitely check it out.  I was one of those "orphaned" from IMDB when they closed down their message boards, I admit I was a little angry about it, and try to avoid that site now as much as I can.  It took a lot of searching to find a replacement for IMDB, and I ended up landing here.

I agree with your comments about Vatican II, but I don't think that was the basis for the main character's (Cathleen's) decision.  It may have been a contributing factor, in an indirect way, because of the disruption that it brought to the convents.

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

I agree with your comments about Vatican II, but I don't think that was the basis for the main character's (Cathleen's) decision. 

Actually, I don't remember her decision.  I almost never remember the end of movies.  I also don't mind spoilers, and wonder if the two traits are related.

Anyway, I was thinking about the nuns who'd spent their lives doing the nun thing, just to be told, "Oh, by the way, the church has decided that it no longer holds you in any higher regard than it holds regular old parishioners."  I guess it could be argued that the cloistered ones weren't actually serving the church because everything there is so inward (as opposed to nuns who were teachers, for example), so why should they care what regard the church holds them in because they were doing what they were doing for themselves and their own relationship with God.  But still.  I would have been pissed.

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Anyway, I was thinking about the nuns who'd spent their lives doing the nun thing, just to be told, "Oh, by the way, the church has decided that it no longer holds you in any higher regard than it holds regular old parishioners."

Oh absolutely, it must have felt like a betrayal because they had sacrificed their lives in this service.  Love and sacrifice, like they said, there is no one without the other.  

I've always had a fascination with monks, and nuns are basically the female version.  I've always thought it's a bit like joining the military, if the head of the monastery (or convent, in this case) tells you that you are going to go out and become a teacher, that's what you are going to do.  Because of the hierarchy that's in the church.  I'm sure a lot of those people would probably have preferred to remain cloistered, but ultimately they're there to serve.

Regarding Cathleen's decision, there wasn't really any discussion of it until it was revealed, but you could see what led to it.  She was still within her rights to back out until she took her final vows.  

I'm like you, I don't really care about spoilers either.  They don't really affect my enjoyment of a movie one way or another.  There are a few movie and TV shows where I think not knowing an event is important to the story, but they are very few.