S05.E09: The Ascent

[rmontro]

Quote

When Odo and Quark crash land, they must put aside their differences to climb a mountain to signal for help. Jake and Nog try to be roommates, but their different styles clash

This had to be a challenge for the makeup people with Odo and Quark outside for much of the episode, with their condition quickly deteriorating.  Honestly, it does look pretty fake in quite a few scenes, but I forgive it because it's the 90s, they're on a budget, and it's more about the characterization anyway.

Odo and Quark really puzzle me.  Sometimes you get the impression they have a deep down fondness for each other, and other times they really do seem to genuinely loathe each other.  Odo in this episode seems to take so much delight in the thought of Quark being imprisoned for life.  That strikes me as being particularly nasty.  Here they exchange "I hate you"s, and then later when rescued they both say they meant every word, but then laugh.  I'm not sure what to think.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, rmontro said:

This had to be a challenge for the makeup people with Odo and Quark outside for much of the episode, with their condition quickly deteriorating.  Honestly, it does look pretty fake in quite a few scenes, but I forgive it because it's the 90s, they're on a budget, and it's more about the characterization anyway.

Odo and Quark really puzzle me.  Sometimes you get the impression they have a deep down fondness for each other, and other times they really do seem to genuinely loathe each other.  Odo in this episode seems to take so much delight in the thought of Quark being imprisoned for life.  That strikes me as being particularly nasty.  Here they exchange "I hate you"s, and then later when rescued they both say they meant every word, but then laugh.  I'm not sure what to think.

There's a word for it:  "frienemies."  And to use another phrase from modern social media, "It's complicated."

[SVNBob]

14 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Odo and Quark really puzzle me.  Sometimes you get the impression they have a deep down fondness for each other, and other times they really do seem to genuinely loathe each other.

Odo's Lawful Good, and Quark's Chaotic Neutral (moving toward Good throughout the series).   So they're going to be at loggerheads often.

But they both lived on Terok Nor during the Occupation and saw firsthand what went on there and then.  And each tried to help the Bajoran people in their own way: Odo through actual justice, not Cardassian; and Quark by bending or breaking the rules when he could.  I think the respect grew from those actions at that time. 

When the Occupation ended and actual justice became status quo again, but Quark still bent and broke the rules, that's when the animosity kicked in.  But since neither person actually changed (beyond Odo's shape-shifting, but that doesn't count), the underlying respect remained.

In other words, Odo and Quark like each other as people, but hate each other professionally.  They're like two pro sportsball players on rival teams.  They might have started out in school on the same team, but are now on opposing forces that want to destroy the other in the BIg Game.

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, SVNBob said:

When the Occupation ended and actual justice became status quo again, but Quark still bent and broke the rules, that's when the animosity kicked in.  But since neither person actually changed (beyond Odo's shape-shifting, but that doesn't count), the underlying respect remained.

I can totally get the underlying respect, and whatever resentful affection they might have for each other.  It's just that when you get to the point that Odo is practically beside himself with glee at the thought of Quark being imprisoned for life, that's some high level spite right there.  That's some awfully deep hatred.  I wouldn't wish that on a dog.

[SVNBob]

32 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It's just that when you get to the point that Odo is practically beside himself with glee at the thought of Quark being imprisoned for life, that's some high level spite right there.  That's some awfully deep hatred. 

It wasn't just their personal animosity coming out there though.  It was also all the stresses of the survival situation they were thrust into, having just dodged an attempt on Quark's life via a bomb, coupled with the added stress of Odo trying to cope with being a Solid (as this was soonish after that had happened).  Panic, fear, hunger, loss, and anger all got mixed up and amplified, then spewed out at the only target present: the other guy.  As seen in the B-plot with Jake and Nog, even the best of friends can come close to blows under stress, and while respecting each other, Odo and Quark were never exactly "friends".

I also believe that Quark was, on some level, deliberately trying to antagonize Odo in order to help him in some way.  By making Odo focus anger on him, Odo could ignore some of the other stressors (mainly the Founders and his new Solid status, as the survival situation was progressively harder and harder to ignore) and use more energy in trying to survive, both on that planet and when they got back to DS9.

[rmontro]

6 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

It wasn't just their personal animosity coming out there though.  It was also all the stresses of the survival situation they were thrust into

Your points are valid, but Odo was celebrating Quark being sent away for life before they even found the bomb on the ship.  That seems to hold more weight than the "I hate you" exchange.  Although I guess Odo could have been trying to tease Quark to get more information out of him about what was going on.  But it sounded like Odo just assumed he was going there to stand trial (he was actually a witness).

In any respect, that pair is most interesting with a love/hate relationship.  If it goes too far in one direction, the balance gets thrown off.  That's on the writers.