Brienne of Tarth: She's No Lady

[90PercentGravity]

Brienne is one of my favorite characters, but she is so woefully ineffective. Two people she was sworn to protect are now dead: Renly and Catlyn. She did manage to get Jaime back to Kings Landing, but not unharmed. Now she is off in search of Sansa, but headed in the wrong direction.

 

Brienne told Pod they were going to the wall because it is what she would have done, which I think is her main problem. She doesn't look at things from other people's perspective. If she had taken the time to think about who Sansa is and what Sansa would have done, I think they would be headed toward the Vale or the Riverlands. Sansa knows her aunt is in the Vale and knows Blackfish is somewhere out there. I wouldn't expect Sansa to think that the place with all the rapists and murderers was the place she would be most safe.

[stillshimpy]

Sansa knows her aunt is in the Vale and knows Blackfish is somewhere out there. I wouldn't expect Sansa to think that the place with all the rapists and murderers was the place she would be most safe.

 

I think it was really frustrating to hear Brienne say she's headed to the Wall, but not because it's the last place Sansa would head.  Honestly, Brienne did at least get a bit of a chance to observe Sansa in King's Landing, so it seems more likely that she picked up enough to know that Sansa likely doesn't know much about who is sentenced to the Wall.  Jon Snow (Jon Snuh...) didn't.  He didn't realize the Wall was stuffed with Rapists, thieves and god knows what else.  He thought the sons of noble men guarded the Wall, through honorable choice.  Remember when Tryion had to set Jon straight and how Jon was upset with Ned for not telling him? 

 

Yeah, I think it wasn't a bad guess on Brienne's part, it's not like the Vale is easily reached, so someone would have to take her there.  Also, the Riverlands aren't under Tully control any longer.  Blackfish barely escaped the wedding and for all Sansa (or Brienne) knows, he didn't.  I don't think Walder Frey or Bolton got too terribly busy broadcasting that fact.  

 

So the Wall was a fairly good guess, I think.  It's just the wrong one, which poor Brienne has good intentions and rotten luck.  

[abelard]

Brienne began on this show as a Kingsguard, and reminds me a bit of Ser Barristan Selmy, another Kingsguard who is, let's face it, freaking TERRIBLE at GUARDING KINGS!!!!!!!  Under Selmy's tenure, Prince Rhaegar, the Mad King, and King Robert all got killed!!!!!!  And Selmy was even fighting at Rhaegar's side when that happened!!!!!  If I were Dany, I'd be concerned...  Anyway, Brienne is another character who has great skill as a warrior and a huge amount of nobility and good intentions and honor and loyalty and all that...and isn't all that good at her job.  Under her watch, Renley got murdered, Jaime lost his hand, and Sansa is in the clutches of the Evil Slimeball of Westeros, Crazy Lysa, and Breastfeeding Robin.  None of this is Brienne's fault, per se, but she, like Ser Barristan, just keep watching their charges drop, get horribly wounded, or disappear.

 

All that said, I love Brienne and will basically watch her with any other character on the show.  I'm sad she never got a scene with Tyrion.  I love her with Pod, and I really hope she makes it to the Wall and meets up with Jon Snow, Sam, and the others.  It would be cool if she could be at the Wall when they face the Wildling attack.  Brienne could help out the NW quite a lot, and Jon would appreciate having an experienced Knight on their side. 

[stillshimpy]

abelard: And Selmy was even fighting at Rhaegar's side when that happened!!!!!

 

One of the most fascinating things about that to me is that Selmy Barristan is apparently considered a complete badass to this day.  We only ever got to see the bloated, blustering waste that Robert became but seven gods and seven hells, he must have been an amazing warrior.  You can almost glimpse the idea of why Cersei was originally excited to be married off to him.  He didn't just win the damned war, he practically defeated the Titans.  Then he fell into a dissolute mess of a man. 

 

But anyway, agreed that Selmy was not a particularly successful Kingsguard (understatement alert!) , but when it comes to Brienne, boy she really appears to be a Kingsguard flop, but then again, most of that wasn't even close to her fault.  How could a Kingsguard prevent black magic from stabbing a King?  Renly isn't dead because Brienne faceplanted in her duties.  Renly was dead because Stannis Baratheon employed dark arts that no human being, other than a wizard a la Harry Potter , could have possibly defeated with a mere sword.  

 

Jaime did not lose his hand because Brienne sucked at guarding him.  Jaime lost his hand because his pride couldn't bear the sting of being safely returned to King's Landing by Brienne, so he kept trying to escape and Locke and company captured them both, because Jaime was being a dunderhead and trying to fight Brienne.  Again, those are odds few can overcome.   Black magic, or a charge who literally picks up a sword to try and prevent the guarding.  

 

I do like Brienne, although I do wish the makeup team wouldn't go to town quite so enthusiastically on trying to render the actress (who is surprisingly super cute) quite that plain, it's almost distracting.  I don't like her quite as much as it seems other people do, just because I didn't really enjoy her that much with Jaime.  I like her a lot so far with Pod, but the charge that she's a failure at guarding people really only applies to Sansa, as far as I'm concerned.  

 

Renly was taken out by something no one with a man-made weapon could combat.  It's hard to guard someone against harm when they are busily swinging swords at your head, Jaime and it was Jaime's mouth that got his hand hacked off.  He just couldn't imagine men who would fail to fall under the thrall of gold.  He didn't understand that it was actually insulting as hell.  That not everyone in the damned world would bend over backwards to kiss his butt for coins or the promise of sapphires. 

 

Jaime's mouth and pride cost him that hand.  Renly's brother cheated in order to kill Renly.  Now Sansa Stark is in Brienne's "Oh the giant's eyeball, Brienne, do something right would you?" column.  

Edited May 10, 2014 by stillshimpy

[abelard]

We only ever got to see the bloated, blustering waste that Robert became but seven gods and seven hells, he must have been an amazing warrior.  You can almost glimpse the idea of why Cersei was originally excited to be married off to him.  He didn't just win the damned war, he practically defeated the Titans.  Then he fell into a dissolute mess of a man.

 

Without anything or anyone left to fight, it's clear that Robert floundered miserably.  It seems like he was a great leader on the field of battle and a really piss-poor leader on the throne and in the council room (which he hardly ever visited).  I always think of Ned, and all the Starks, as being pretty fantastic soldiers, so there is this way in which the War for Lyanna Stark was really a clash of titans.  Robert and Ned at their best vs. Rhaegar and Barristan at their best (or close to it) (and I know -- or suspect -- that Ned wasn't at the same battle where Robert did away with Rhaegar once and for all) must have been all-out, hard core Battle Royale.

 

IA that nothing that went wrong was Brienne's fault but she just hasn't really succeeded at anything yet, either.  Jaime's had horribly bad judgement that did get his hand lopped off but I credit him for going back for Brienne, saving her from the Bear Gladiator Olympics, and basically leveraging Bolton's words to get him and Brienne out of there.  That wasn't Brienne rescuing Jaime, it was the other way.  The major "win" that Brienne has had so far imo is killing the Stark men who raped those girls and strung them up.  I really loved that kill, thought Brienne (as a soldier) did fantastic work there (it was at least one against three, maybe four), and it was done not only to protect Jaime's identity but to avenge those poor girls.  I loved how she essentially "raped" the last raper with her sword.  (Jeebus, the things this Show makes me like, yikes!!!)

[WhiteStumbler]

Abelard:

"Ser Barristan Selmy, another Kingsguard who is, let's face it, freaking TERRIBLE at GUARDING KINGS!!!!!!!"

He was actually there, in person, on the Stomp Hunt when the boar got its revenge on Robert. I like Brienne MUCH better than Selmy so far. Ser Barristan has had one good scene (quitting the Kingsguard) and one awesome reappearance (killing the scorpion-bug thing in a ball that tried to kill Dany). Brienne has been a much more interesting and fleshed out character.

So she is most likely dead by the end of the season.

[Snowblack]

I have a real affinity and great sympathy for Brienne.  She's like my socially awkward older sister, and I'm going to beat up anybody who messes with her (not that she needs any help).  Much like Arya, she could not realistically live her life as a noblewoman, even if she wanted to.  She is true to herself, and she is lucky to have a family that has allowed her to pursue her passions, unlike Arya (well, mostly).  And yet, she has chosen a path where she will never fit in or truly be accepted.  Brienne has the same strong sense of honor as the Starks (which again makes it strange that she followed Renly, who didn't seem to be particularly honorable or principled).  It doesn't bode well for her future.  I'm happy that at least one (living) character won't compromise her principles in exchange for acceptance.  And I like that she binds herself to individuals, but not their causes. She doesn't seem to particularly care about the bigger picture. My sense is that she has been hurt so badly and so often in the past that she does not bind herself to anything except the individuals she believes she can trust.

 

Her skill alone got her to Renly's kings guard.  And you can be certain that she had to be many times more skilled than the men around her to make it so far.  She beat Loras, and she may well have beaten Jaime given the chance.  And we saw her incredible skill on display with the three Stark men.  Without such talent, her life would be so tragic.  I don't know what Brienne saw in Renly or why she followed him.  He wasn't much of a leader, got queasy at the sight of blood and had no rightful claim to the throne.  I wonder if Renly's willingness to give her an opportunity to prove herself is the reason.  And perhaps Renly homosexuality helped him see her differently than other men do.  The lack of judgment by Renly is the only reason I can conjure up why she would follow him.  And she obviously loved him a great deal, based on her reaction to his death. 

 

I think Brienne's willingness to follow Lady Stark  was much along the same lines.  Catlyn was willing to accept her when she feared no one else would, and unlike Renly, Catlyn's honor and principles matched her own.  But I think it was also a hunger for acceptance and a sense of belonging that prompted her actions.  Brienne has clearly had a sad life, full of mistreatment and bullying by men and certainly women.  When she was first thrown together with Jaime, you could see in her face that his incredulous and insulting reaction was not uncommon.  Which made Olenna's reaction to her that much more delightful.  No man has ever wooed her or loved her, although she has managed to get the respect of some men.  She has always been alone.  Her reaction to the women being raped and hanged spoke to the abuse she has suffered.  She became Justice, personified.  Yet no number of murdering rapists' deaths will fill the emptiness inside of her or erase the scars of her suffering.  But I think in some ways earning Jaime's respect, admiration and love have helped to fill that hole.  Not romantic love.  I don't think he sees her as a woman anymore.  Bue he does see the incredibly exceptional person she is.  She has enough honor for both of them.  Her quiet strength in being sent away by him...ugh, it tore at my heart.  How many times do they have to go through these painful, silent goodbyes?  I love the two of them and their awkward admiration for one another.

 

I have hope for Brienne, even though my hope is held in check by the cruel twists of this series.  One thing I would love to see is Brienne fight one of the real badasses in the series like the Hound, the Mountain or even Bronn.  A showdown with the Hound is entirely possible, since she is heading north.  Wouldn't it be fun to see those two square off against each other?  And Arya would find a true mentor in Brienne, who could hopefully set her on a less dark path.  So that's my hope.  Brienne, Arya and Pod, heading north together to save Sansa. 

[Snowblack]

Oh, and I'm really wondering why she's letting Pod call her "My Lady."  It seems out of character.  But I like the duo of Brienne and Pod.  It's almost like Pod has to go through the same process Brienne had to go through with Jaime.  Hopefully he will eventually earn her respect.  And hopefully they won't add a sexual angle to their relationship.  I don't think the show spent so much time on the two of them just for comic relief.  Something is going to happen.  Again, hoping they meet up with the Hound and Arya.  But Bririck/Podranne could also meet up with the Brotherhood.  I wonder what their reaction would be to her.  In any case, I don't think they're honorable enough for her to join forces with them.  But maybe she could find out from them that Arya is still alive.  I doubt they could tell her any more than that.  The other possibility is that Stannis actually gets his act together and starts to head for the Wall.  I could see her torn between the desire to avenge Renly and to get to the Wall to find Sansa.  It could make for an interesting journey.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Snowblack

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Oh, and I'm really wondering why she's letting Pod call her "My Lady."

 

Well she objected to Ser because she's not a knight, and I guess he has to call her something.