Chris Carter: The Man in Charge (Whether You Like It Or Not)

[FormerMod-a1]

Discuss Chris Carter here.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Woot! As the first one here, I get to repeat my pet peeve yet again! 

Carter came up with some interesting characters and made sure they they got good people to play them, and he deserves credit for that. However, he's always been convinced that it's their great storytelling which keeps people coming back, when in fact the stories never made much sense, and constantly contradicted themselves anyway, and viewers got over the storytelling a long time ago. It's Scully and Mulder that we love and which keep us coming back, and we put up with the nonsensical stories, retconning, and confusion as the cost of spending time with our characters. We'd watch an episode if it consisted of M&S on a trip to the supermarket with nothing odd happening along the way. But instead, we are repeatedly subjected to attempts to revive the trainwreck which is the mytharc. 

So my feelings about Carter are a love/hate thing. He did give me these characters and some good stories, but most of the time I wish he'd just back the hell out and let someone like Vince Giliigan write for these characters. 

[EUROTRASH]

Chris Carter is the reason why the original series is my all time favorite show, and not only because he created it, but actually because of his episodes. Most of the episodes he's written and co-written are my favorites, and in a way he's probably my favorite writer on the original X-Files. I even enjoy the lengthy voice-overs from "Redux" and other episodes. Don't have huge problems with S8 and S9 either.

Although I watched the series since the Pilot episode and liked it right away, I became a hardcore fan after "Colony". And even though I also love stand-alones, many of them being my favorite episodes, I am first and foremost a mythology fan. I think it's the mythology -- exceptions aside ("Beyond the Sea", "Irresistible", etc.) -- which drove the character development, and even led to the popular relationship ("MSR") that so many people care about.

That said, I separate CC's work on the original series from CC's work on the revival. I harshly criticize his revival work, totally despise it, and also don't have much praise for the revival in general. Despite my harsh criticisms, I get quite irritated whenever someone insinuates that CC rarely wrote something good on the original XF. I think such statements couldn't be further from the truth.

I also think "Babylon" wouldn't be getting such hate if it were written by Darin Morgan, and "Were-Monster" wouldn't be such a fan-favorite if it had been written by Chris Carter. I say this in all seriousness, although it's just an opinion, a theory of mine that I have no way of proving.

Don't know what more I can say about him. I loved "Harsh Realm" and thought it was a shame it got cancelled. A fantastic series with so much potential. "The After" Pilot I haven't seen, but heard bad things. "Millennium" I watched only a couple of episodes, and although it's a quality series, I never became a fan. Might watch it from start, some day.

That's pretty much it.

[EUROTRASH]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

So my feelings about Carter are a love/hate thing. He did give me these characters and some good stories, but most of the time I wish he'd just back the hell out and let someone like Vince Giliigan write for these characters. 

No such thing as a perfect X-Files writer though. I mean, Vince Gilligan gave us both "Hungry" and "Sunshine Days", whereas Morgan and Wong gave us "The Field Where I Died". None of them are fan-favorites, to say the least.

When I think of how many episodes CC has written and co-written, vs. other writers and their contributions, I'd say he's done a terrific job.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Controversy! 

You make a good point, Eurotrash. Not everything Carter did is bad, and I don't mean to imply that it is. The concept of the show is genius; how would a rational person respond to a world in which all the whackjob stuff is real? My problem with his plotting is that, good or bad, he never left anything as finalized. Any new idea the writers had would be inserted into the increasing confusion, even if it contradicted material already established in previous stories. I stopped being invested in the stories when it became clear that nothing was actually riding on them because anything at all could be denied and undermined at any time. That's why I stopped caring about the stories and was left with only my characters to care about. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[EUROTRASH]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

Controversy! 

You make a good point, Eurotrash. Not everything Carter did is bad, and I don't mean to imply that it is. The concept of the show is genius; how would a rational person respond to a world in which all the whackjob stuff is real? My problem with his plotting is that, good or bad, he never left anything as finalized. Any new idea the writers had would be inserted into the increasing confusion, even if it contradicted material already established in previous stories. I stopped being invested in the stories when it became clear that nothing was actually riding on them because anything at all could be denied and undermined at any time. That's why I stopped caring about the stories and was left with only my characters to care about. 

You have a point, but I'd still say that most of what CC did was good, on the original series. I also don't really disagree with you about the plotting and finalization. I mean, even though I enjoyed S8 and S9, after Samantha's "closure" in S7 I wasn't able to look at the series the same way again. Samantha's closure was a beautiful two-parter, but it made me realize that it's totally useless analyzing episodes in retrospect, to figure things out. The brain disease revelation in S8 really confirmed that.

The main issue was lack of planning, not wanting to resolve things, and just piling new information/developments on top of unresolved things, over, and over, and over. The end result was writing himself into a corner with almost invincible alien replicants who have infilitrated every possible government institution, and a set colonization date for 2012, and all of that being erased with a one-liner about global warming in S11.

Despite that, I still view the original series, and Carter's work on it, as an overall success. A huge success with the positive greatly outweighing the negative. At the same time I find the revival a missed opportunity, and don't have much positive to say about it at all. Aside from some good moments here and there, it's quite mediocre. Even the episodes I enjoy (Plus One, Founder's Mutation, Home Again) really pale compared to XF greats. To each their own as always.

[Cerulean Blue]

My issue with CC is very much related to his writing of the Mulder/Scully relationship. It's odd because I think most CC-written episodes were pretty strong through season 5. But starting with "The Beginning" in season 6, something went off the rails and everything he wrote became just sort of...overwrought, particularly as it related to the M/S dynamic. The voice-overs/Carterlogues, the stilted relationship talk, the "Dearest Dana" of it all. 

In Carter's writing, M/S have these cheesy relationship conversations, full of hackneyed phrases ("Will you hold me?") that I could not imagine Mulder or Scully actually saying, especially given how emotionally closed off they both tend to be. It's so cringe-inducing for me.

One of the reasons I fell for the M/S ship back in the day was because they weren't a normal relationship; they didn't talk about their feelings and have long drawn-out conversations about their relationship. Instead, they were a couple of weird, badass, super-hot people who had this very intense connection that transcended the standard TV depiction of "romance." 

But every time Carter writes an episode that has M/S interacting in anything other than a professional capacity, they always talk about their feelings (in a super awkward way), and it just feels so out-of-character and trite, like the bed conversation in "Plus One."

In contrast, "This" (the only non-CC written episode) has been my favorite episode in S11. M/S had a bunch of non-verbal communication, they teased each other, they did crazy stuff, they had this super intense connection, but they never felt the need to sit around and discuss their relationship and their feelings. So even though the plot of "This" was a mess--I totally enjoyed it. Most later-season XF plots are a mess, so I'm basically only in it for the M/S action at this point. And no amount of weirdly staged, off-screen sex scenes are going to be as enjoyable as watching Mulder and Scully traipse around a graveyard in the middle of the night, bantering as they solve an unnecessarily complicated riddle, while being stalked by a seemingly un-killable Russian (maybe? I'm still not clear about that part) assassin.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Cerulean Blue

[EUROTRASH]

16 hours ago, Cerulean Blue said:

My issue with CC is very much related to his writing of the Mulder/Scully relationship. It's odd because I think most CC-written episodes were pretty strong through season 5. But starting with "The Beginning" in season 6, something went off the rails and everything he wrote became just sort of...overwrought, particularly as it related to the M/S dynamic. The voice-overs/Carterlogues, the stilted relationship talk, the "Dearest Dana" of it all. 

In Carter's writing, M/S have these cheesy relationship conversations, full of hackneyed phrases ("Will you hold me?") that I could not imagine Mulder or Scully actually saying, especially given how emotionally closed off they both tend to be. It's so cringe-inducing for me.

One of the reasons I fell for the M/S ship back in the day was because they weren't a normal relationship; they didn't talk about their feelings and have long drawn-out conversations about their relationship. Instead, they were a couple of weird, badass, super-hot people who had this very intense connection that transcended the standard TV depiction of "romance." 

But every time Carter writes an episode that has M/S interacting in anything other than a professional capacity, they always talk about their feelings (in a super awkward way), and it just feels so out-of-character and trite, like the bed conversation in "Plus One."

In contrast, "This" (the only non-CC written episode) has been my favorite episode in S11. M/S had a bunch of non-verbal communication, they teased each other, they did crazy stuff, they had this super intense connection, but they never felt the need to sit around and discuss their relationship and their feelings. So even though the plot of "This" was a mess--I totally enjoyed it. Most later-season XF plots are a mess, so I'm basically only in it for the M/S action at this point. And no amount of weirdly staged, off-screen sex scenes are going to be as enjoyable as watching Mulder and Scully traipse around a graveyard in the middle of the night, bantering as they solve an unnecessarily complicated riddle, while being stalked by a seemingly un-killable Russian (maybe? I'm still not clear about that part) assassin.

Even though I disliked "This" for many reasons, and I love both S8 and S9, I agree with you that he has no idea on how to handle the relationship. The way he wrote them in S10, and even in Plus One, is downright absurd.

Love your username BTW. Episodes like "Pusher" really remind me of what The X-Files was capable of.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I have my issues with Carter's writing - I think his biggest problem is a desire to always keep too many options open, which harmed both the mytharc and the way he wrote the Mulder and Scully relationship.  

But I also believe him that he sees Mulder and Scully as some sort of idealized relationship.  Even though I have never thought of him as much of a shipper, in reflection, I actually don't think that is very fair.  His episodes have had some of the most purely romantic moments between Mulder and Scully on the show, and the ones that include the most direct declaration of feeling between the two - from Mulder telling Scully that he loves her in Triangle to Paget declaring that Scully loves Mulder in Milagro to the ending scene in Post-Modern Prometheus (and that's putting aside the bug bites in the premiere and all of the bed spooning).  But I think he also seems to think that sex somehow ruins the "purity" of their relationship or something, and that's where, IMO, he gets tripped up.

But at the end of the day, I respect that it's his show and even where I have criticisms of his writing, I have to be thankful he gave us this show and these characters.  And I also think he unfairly bears the brunt of any disappointments that people may have of the show. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I have my issues with Carter's writing - I think his biggest problem is a desire to always keep too many options open, which harmed both the mytharc and the way he wrote the Mulder and Scully relationship.  

But I also believe him that he sees Mulder and Scully as some sort of idealized relationship.  Even though I have never thought of him as much of a shipper, in reflection, I actually don't think that is very fair.  His episodes have had some of the most purely romantic moments between Mulder and Scully on the show, and the ones that include the most direct declaration of feeling between the two - from Mulder telling Scully that he loves her in Triangle to Paget declaring that Scully loves Mulder in Milagro to the ending scene in Post-Modern Prometheus (and that's putting aside the bug bites in the premiere and all of the bed spooning).  But I think he also seems to think that sex somehow ruins the "purity" of their relationship or something, and that's where, IMO, he gets tripped up.

But at the end of the day, I respect that it's his show and even where I have criticisms of his writing, I have to be thankful he gave us this show and these characters.  And I also think he unfairly bears the brunt of any disappointments that people may have of the show. 

And yet, 'Plus One' kind of tore down any kind of idealized relationship in my opinion. I viewed it in that way for years. So it'll take some for me to get adjusted.

That used to be me to a point, I respected him, his writing and the fact he came up with the characters. But after s10, meaning in terms of the condescension, I didn't have very much respect left for him at all. I felt empty. Bitter. I don't put up with that kind of thing from any person for what it's worth though.

I'm mainly still around due to the actors, Glen, Darin and James.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

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Even though I have never thought of him as much of a shipper, in reflection, I actually don't think that is very fair.  His episodes have had some of the most purely romantic moments between Mulder and Scully on the show... 

Let me tell you why this drives me nuts. (It is not aimed at you, by the way.) This is the same guy who promised in the early seasons, repeatedly and specifically, that M&S would never get together romantically. Since much of the original appeal of the series for me was the novelty of a male and female pair of characters being wonderfully caring and supportive in a platonic way, not going the cliched route of being romantically entangled, this broken promise is one of my bitterest memories of the series. So when Carter puts them together in a romantic scene, I can't fairly judge it as either good or bad because all I feel is the simmering anger over him doing it at all. 

(Sorry for all the italics. It's just that this really pisses me off.) 

[Cerulean Blue]

Quote

Let me tell you why this drives me nuts. (It is not aimed at you, by the way.) This is the same guy who promised in the early seasons, repeatedly and specifically, that M&S would never get together romantically. Since much of the original appeal of the series for me was the novelty of a male and female pair of characters being wonderfully caring and supportive in a platonic way, not going the cliched route of being romantically entangled, this broken promise is one of my bitterest memories of the series. So when Carter puts them together in a romantic scene, I can't fairly judge it as either good or bad because all I feel is the simmering anger over him doing it at all. 

What's kind of funny is that I'm approaching it from the opposite perspective in that I've been a diehard shipper since season 1 (in my defense, I was literally a 12-year-old girl back when s1 aired), but I feel exactly the same in terms of the simmering anger. Because Mulder and Scully were such a novelty; they were unlike any other pairing I'd ever seen before (or since) and their relationship seemed so incredibly not-a-cliché. And while I wanted them to be together, I never wanted it to be the kind of relationship that could be described as "romantically entangled." That just implies a kind of emotional drama that I wasn't interested in seeing with M/S.

I've always felt that the M/S relationship is one that could be so different than other romances; that they could be together without it turning into a romantic cliché. And I think that they are like that in some episodes, but they are NEVER like that in CC's episodes. He seems to think that the mere fact of them sleeping together means that they turn into different people. People who speak in cheesy romance-novel dialogue and can't seem to stop talking about their feelings. I think it's especially troubling to me that it's usually Scully who instigates these conversations, and that she's really the one who suffers in CC's writing of their romantic relationship. Like, she's the woman, so she must be obsessed with babies and her biological clock and making sure Mulder isn't looking to dump her for some younger model. Ugh.

And it's this depiction of her that really pisses me off, and wishes that CC would just stick to writing them as platonic partners. I'd rather not see a romantic relationship between them if "Plus One" is what it looks like. 

Quote

Love your username BTW. Episodes like "Pusher" really remind me of what The X-Files was capable of.

"Pusher" is one of my top three XF episodes, and M/S in it is pretty much my ideal version of their relationship. I think Vince Gilligan is the writer who most understood what made the M/S dynamic so appealing--and could write that relationship while also constructing a pretty disturbing MOTW better than anyone else. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

Heck I agree with you guys. I wish he would have kept them as just friends. Instead of what they're at now. And I'm an old school shipper. Where it's at now is so complicated that it's not funny. I agree about the 'Plus One' bit, @Cerulean Blue. It's not anything that I ever wanted to see, good acting and chemistry aside. It just feels/seems so cheap now.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 1/21/2018 at 5:06 AM, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

Let me tell you why this drives me nuts. (It is not aimed at you, by the way.) This is the same guy who promised in the early seasons, repeatedly and specifically, that M&S would never get together romantically. Since much of the original appeal of the series for me was the novelty of a male and female pair of characters being wonderfully caring and supportive in a platonic way, not going the cliched route of being romantically entangled, this broken promise is one of my bitterest memories of the series. So when Carter puts them together in a romantic scene, I can't fairly judge it as either good or bad because all I feel is the simmering anger over him doing it at all. 

(Sorry for all the italics. It's just that this really pisses me off.) 

I tend to separate Carter as writer vs. Carter as producer.  I think that as a producer, he often does try to be too vague in the way that he talks about the show and the characters.  But as a writer, I think he's always had a clear vision of Mulder and Scully's relationship - the way he then talks about it as a producer then ends up muddying that vision.