Season 2 Episodes Talk

[idiotwaltz]

Just watched this again and Elle breaks my heart so much: the way she falls apart, quickly and brutally; Reid's attempt to reach out to her in the hotel room; her fistbump with Morgan. I'm so angry that Hotch and Gideon thought it was a good idea to use her as bait, and at the way Gideon told her off at the end. 

 

The local PD reminds me of a non-hilarious version of Amy Santiago from Brooklyn Nine Nine. 

[normasm]

Agreed, idiot, and you notice how, when they make this decision, Reid isn't around. I would think he would have said something if he had seen Hotch put her in that position. Like, "NO."

[Annber03]

I like this episode, too. It's written by one of my favorite writers for this series, Elle and Reid's conversation in the hotel room is good, and I like how he kinda looks out for her throughout the episode. I liked Reid and Elle's interactions in general during her time on the show-they had a rather unusual yet sweet friendship of sorts, and tended to be rather protective of each other.

You make a good point about Reid not being in on this decision, normasm. I agree that he would've spoke up, or tried to, at least, if he'd been involved in that conversation. Or he would've tried to talk to Elle and ask her if she was sure she wanted to do this or something.

I also like JJ comforting the college student who was feeling guilty about being attacked. She knew just the right things to say to her. 

And I fully agree that it was a bad idea to let Elle be the bait. Unfortunately, she was really their only option for their plan, since she was closer to their ages, at least, in comparison to JJ. And she was trained for this stuff, unlike JJ. Even taking that into account, though, yeah, considering the others clearly were aware of the stress and issues she'd been through up to that point to some degree, they definitely should've looked into coming up with some other sort of plan altogether to try and nab the creep. 

Course, then again, knowing Elle, even if they had tried to talk her out of it, she probably would've fought them and been all, "I can handle this". She was clearly itching to take somebody down this episode, what with the way she charged after the guy when he pulled up in front of the house, and then later confronting him at the end. So even if she did had her own private reservations and fears about being bait, which I've no doubt she did, I think her need for revenge, and her general disgust over the nastiness of this case, overrode those reservations and fears. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Annber03

[JenJenBosco]

Season 2:  Fisher King part 2:

I love that beginning scene about the book they are searching for.  I love the clarification that Spence's memory is things he's read mainly, less on things he's heard, although he can recall things he's heard well.  Liked Gideon taking charge finally. -> not just chilling in his office.  Love Gideon saying, "If anyone can put this together, you can." To Spencer.  I think it boost his confidence, although he states, "It's impossible."  at first.

I love the discussion about how he searched out the specific things that were difficult to find.  -> helped to figure out the book.

I liked the conversation with Spencer and Garcia about the likelihood of something being in the databases.  -> now, it's just assumed.  

Loved watching the background of the screen as Spence figures out the book.  I liked that he found someone who could help with the code by having four libraries looking.  Also, liked the anagram.  

The looks on the four of them when the unsub says, "Agent Greenaway did not have to die like that," was intense.  I liked that they took charge of the crime scene.  When it comes to one of their own, they defend them.  

I always wondered why Gideon told Hotch that it wasn't his fault, but doesn't take any responsibility himself.  Although later on Gideon does wonder if it was the right thing, the press conference.  However, he basically just assures himself.  

Loved the scene with Spencer figuring out the poem, and I loved the look on Garcia's face as she realizes that his mom is a sanitarium patient.  Poor Diana having to face her fears when the FBI shows up and makes her Fly to D.C.  I loved the scene afterwards with the two of them.  "I should have realized it sooner...no one knows that JJ used to collect butterflies, except for me.  People tell me their secrets all of the time, I think it's because they know I don't have anyone to betray them to...except my mother...I tell her pretty much everything."  "I don't think anyone would mind."  I was sad to learn why he writes her a letter every day.   And the look on Garcia's face when he asks, "Did you know that schizophrenia is genetically passed?"  is just sad.

Also, loved that Morgan assumed Reid figured it out and they were wasting their time until JJ says "Elle was shot" and he immediately turns around to go the hospital until JJ convinces him there's nothing they can do at a hospital and they should continue on.  It really shows how much he cares...at least I think so.   "Hotch said not to".  "I don't give a damn what Hotch said". 

I do like Elle's scenes with her dad.  I wonder if that's why she bonded with Morgan, who also lost his father that way.

I'm surprised that her mother put everything in the garage...as are the agents, it's strange.  "Parents don't give up, ever."

I still don't understand how he can claim to love her, and hold her captive.  

I loved that Reid and his mom were key and that she took the key off the board, which was why Reid had it when they saved her.  I also loved that when Garcia realized that Garner was at Bennington, she didn't tell Morgan and JJ, she kept the secret.  -> they used to have a cute friendship, what happened?

"The only way for the organization level to be this high, is if he believes it's real." -> that's scary.

Loved Hotch and Morgan saying, "Don't do it."

Totally loved Reid, "My mother is paranoid schizophenic would would forget to eat if she wasn't properly medicated and supervised." -> the looks on Morgan and Hotch's faces are interesting...a lot like Garcia's. It's sad that he couldn't share that, probably because he was afraid of those looks.

"Hotch, Morgan, I think maybe it would be better if you waited downstairs.  Mr. Garner and I are going to talk alone."

Hotch whispers, "What?"

Morgan: "Go ahead and Talk, Reid but we're not going anywhere." -> again, I am proud of the team for sticking together.

Loved Hotch and Morgan basically pulling Reid out of the house after Morgan gets the fire off of him.

"What the hell was that?"

"He had a bomb!"

"And you didn't think we should know that?"

"I told you to go downstairs."

"You didn't say bomb, you left that part out!"

Then Reid calls to stop so he can think, and figures out where he's hiding Rebecca, and they save the day.  -> very actiony.  Loved Morgan saying, "How do you know that?"

"The KEY the Key, the youngest one holds the key, tell me you have the key."

Totally love the end of this episode, Elle survives, kind of sad that her last words to her father were 'I hate you, daddy.'  Reid and his mom have a cute moment, and all is well.  -> fantastic premiere.  

Love the ending scene with the team as well, "Thank you everyone you did well."  "Well, we could have only gotten so far without, Mrs. Reid."

"Have you read any of the material?"  "I've had them read to me."

Also, loved Gideon with Elle at the end, Morgan and Garcia, Reid and his Mom, JJ erasing everything, and Hotch with the wall.  -> and that song at the end was fantastic.

So, in case anyone was wondering, I love this episode.

Up Next: P911

[normasm]

Nice review, JenJen, it's one of my all-time faves too!

[JenJenBosco]

2 hours ago, normasm said:

Nice review, JenJen, it's one of my all-time faves too!

Thank you, I'm still excited whenever I watch it, even knowing what happens.  -> I forgot about all of the cute character moments, and I realized that I used to really like Garcia and Reid's friendship.

[Annber03]

17 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

The looks on the four of them when the unsub says, "Agent Greenaway did not have to die like that," was intense.  I liked that they took charge of the crime scene.  When it comes to one of their own, they defend them.  

Yep. You mess with one team member, you mess with ALL of them :D. 

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I always wondered why Gideon told Hotch that it wasn't his fault, but doesn't take any responsibility himself.  Although later on Gideon does wonder if it was the right thing, the press conference.  However, he basically just assures himself.  

The guy was so shaken up by his personal space being invaded, and the general stress of the situation, so I think his self-reassurance was mainly a matter of, 'Blaming myself, or others, isn't going to help anybody right now." That and, well, as we all know, Gideon can be arrogant, so maybe he really did ultimately feel his actions were right, since they did lure the unsub out and force him to actively communicate directly with them. 

But yes, I do think it would've been nice, after all the craziness of the case died down, to see him take a little more time to properly reflect on his actions, and the fact that Elle got caught up in the crossfire in the process. Gideon did have a tendency to taunt the unsubs to their breaking point, and there's only so many times you can successfully do that before it backfires and puts people in danger. 

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Loved the scene with Spencer figuring out the poem, and I loved the look on Garcia's face as she realizes that his mom is a sanitarium patient.  Poor Diana having to face her fears when the FBI shows up and makes her Fly to D.C.  I loved the scene afterwards with the two of them.  "I should have realized it sooner...no one knows that JJ used to collect butterflies, except for me.  People tell me their secrets all of the time, I think it's because they know I don't have anyone to betray them to...except my mother...I tell her pretty much everything."  "I don't think anyone would mind."  I was sad to learn why he writes her a letter every day.   And the look on Garcia's face when he asks, "Did you know that schizophrenia is genetically passed?"  is just sad.

I love this whole scene, too. It just makes me want to give Reid a hug. And I especially like the idea that the rest of the team apparently trusts Reid with their secrets and tidbits about their lives. Yes, Reid isn't one to go around blabbing others' secrets, which certainly helps, but I think the fact they can open up to him like that also shows a remarkable amount of closeness that's developed between Reid and the others. And that's a nice thing to think about. 

(The bit about JJ collecting butterflies has me wondering if she'd mentioned that to Reid during their Redskins date.)

And I like Reid's reaction to figuring out the poem, too, and how that leads him to a bit of fond remembrance of his mom reading it to him. You can hear the wistfulness in his voice as he thinks back to that, and it's so sweet. 

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Also, loved that Morgan assumed Reid figured it out and they were wasting their time until JJ says "Elle was shot" and he immediately turns around to go the hospital until JJ convinces him there's nothing they can do at a hospital and they should continue on.  It really shows how much he cares...at least I think so.   "Hotch said not to".  "I don't give a damn what Hotch said". 

I do like Elle's scenes with her dad.  I wonder if that's why she bonded with Morgan, who also lost his father that way.

...I totally never thought about that being a reason Elle and Morgan would've clicked, but now you mention it, it seems so incredibly obvious. I can totally see that, absolutely, and I think that'll be my official headcanon now. That could make for a good fic. Hm. 

I always like the way Morgan reacts whenever a teammate is in danger. He gets so excitable and "I need to go help them NOW" about it all. It's a great example of his deep protective streak, which is one of my favorite traits of his. 

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I'm surprised that her mother put everything in the garage...as are the agents, it's strange.  "Parents don't give up, ever."

I still don't understand how he can claim to love her, and hold her captive.  

Yeah, I get the feeling there was a lot more to everything with Rebecca's adopted family beyond what we learned in that scene. I don't doubt the mom when she says they loved Rebecca and took care of her-I think they did. And you can be the best parent in the world, but if you take in a child who had a really tough past, that's going to be difficult no matter what. But still, yeah, the general reaction to her disappearance was rather odd. 

As for Garner's twisted form of love...well, like Diana said, he was emotionally disturbed, so... I think he figured if he kept her with him, she'd never be in danger from the outside world again. People who love others protect them from harm, after all, so I think he thought that's what he was doing here, as an attempt to make up for not protecting her and the family in that fire. But he was too screwed up to realize the harm he was causing her as well. 

But yeah, he had a lot of problems. As disturbing and dangerous as he clearly was, I do find it sad that he could never find peace over the tragedy he and his family went through. 

 

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I loved that Reid and his mom were key and that she took the key off the board, which was why Reid had it when they saved her.  I also loved that when Garcia realized that Garner was at Bennington, she didn't tell Morgan and JJ, she kept the secret.  -> they used to have a cute friendship, what happened?

Aw, I still think their friendship is cute, myself. I'd say it's gotten stronger over the years, actually. 

But agreed on Garcia protecting Reid's secret here, yes. Lots of great moments with the two of them throughout here. 

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Totally loved Reid, "My mother is paranoid schizophenic would would forget to eat if she wasn't properly medicated and supervised." -> the looks on Morgan and Hotch's faces are interesting...a lot like Garcia's. It's sad that he couldn't share that, probably because he was afraid of those looks.

Again, agreed. I think the fact that he realized that the team trusts him with their secrets, though, as well as the fact that he could talk about his mom to Garcia without her passing any judgment, and the team finally got to meet her, helped make it easier for him to say that out loud at the end. He's starting to realize that he can be honest and open about personal aspects of his life around them, too. 

I find it interesting that Hotch seemed surprised by that information. Given he's the unit chief, I would think he might've learned about that information from Reid's personnel file at some point. 

Quote

"Hotch, Morgan, I think maybe it would be better if you waited downstairs.  Mr. Garner and I are going to talk alone."

Hotch whispers, "What?"

Morgan: "Go ahead and Talk, Reid but we're not going anywhere." -> again, I am proud of the team for sticking together.

Loved Hotch and Morgan basically pulling Reid out of the house after Morgan gets the fire off of him.

"What the hell was that?"

"He had a bomb!"

"And you didn't think we should know that?"

"I told you to go downstairs."

"You didn't say bomb, you left that part out!"

LOL, I love them arguing over the bomb stuff here :D. And leave it to Reid to walk right into the line of fire, and leave it to the rest of the team to respond with, "What? No, Reid! What are you thinking?!" :p. 

Quote

Totally love the end of this episode, Elle survives, kind of sad that her last words to her father were 'I hate you, daddy.'  Reid and his mom have a cute moment, and all is well.  -> fantastic premiere.  

Love the ending scene with the team as well, "Thank you everyone you did well."  "Well, we could have only gotten so far without, Mrs. Reid."

"Have you read any of the material?"  "I've had them read to me."

Also, loved Gideon with Elle at the end, Morgan and Garcia, Reid and his Mom, JJ erasing everything, and Hotch with the wall.  -> and that song at the end was fantastic.

I love, love, love this whole end scene, for the very reasons you note. I first saw this episode when I was staying over at a friend's place one weekend. We decided to watch her season 2 DVD of this show (after she showed me the first part of this two-parter), and by the time it got to the moment when Hotch went to Elle's house to clean her walls, I distinctly remember thinking, "Okay, I really like these people." And I remember eagerly looking forward to what was next on the DVD as well. Season 2 in general is always going to be a personal favorite for me because of the fact that it's what pushed me to properly check out this show further :). Plus, there's just a lot of great episodes in it as well, ones I look forward to discussing with you as you make your way through the season :D. 

I love the song, too. Like I said in the season 1 thread, I can't hear "The Riddle" anymore without thinking of this episode. 

As always, enjoying reading your thoughts on the episodes! Can't wait to see what else you'll have to say about this season going forward :D. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Annber03

[JenJenBosco]

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yep. You mess with one team member, you mess with ALL of them :D. 

Exactly!  I totally love it.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

The guy was so shaken up by his personal space being invaded, and the general stress of the situation, so I think his self-reassurance was mainly a matter of, 'Blaming myself, or others, isn't going to help anybody right now." That and, well, as we all know, Gideon can be arrogant, so maybe he really did ultimately feel his actions were right, since they did lure the unsub out and force him to actively communicate directly with them. 

But yes, I do think it would've been nice, after all the craziness of the case died down, to see him take a little more time to properly reflect on his actions, and the fact that Elle got caught up in the crossfire in the process. Gideon did have a tendency to taunt the unsubs to their breaking point, and there's only so many times you can successfully do that before it backfires and puts people in danger. 

It would have been nice to see more of Gideon talking through his decisions after finding out Elle would make it, but sadly, they didn't.  I think part of his arrogance is that he thinks he knows the line that would cause the unsub to break, and feels he's got the control -> like in Broken Mirror.  However, he's so arrogant sometimes that he forgets that it could backfire and someone could be put in danger, like here.  

I just think Hotch or someone else should have said, 'hey, this is not a good idea to push him, he knows where we live...etc...' -> clearly he could cause them problems with all of the information he had if they didn't catch him.  Especially since it was clear that Gideon was having issues.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I love this whole scene, too. It just makes me want to give Reid a hug. And I especially like the idea that the rest of the team apparently trusts Reid with their secrets and tidbits about their lives. Yes, Reid isn't one to go around blabbing others' secrets, which certainly helps, but I think the fact they can open up to him like that also shows a remarkable amount of closeness that's developed between Reid and the others. And that's a nice thing to think about. 

(The bit about JJ collecting butterflies has me wondering if she'd mentioned that to Reid during their Redskins date.)

And I like Reid's reaction to figuring out the poem, too, and how that leads him to a bit of fond remembrance of his mom reading it to him. You can hear the wistfulness in his voice as he thinks back to that, and it's so sweet. 

Yes, I feel that way, too.  It's unbelievably nice that everyone shares with Reid, and it shows that they truly care.  I definitely think the butterfly thing could have come up during their date, and I do think his reaction to the poem is sweet. Despite Garcia saying, "Your mom read you valentine's day poems, hello therapy."  Although Reid didn't even notice.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

...I totally never thought about that being a reason Elle and Morgan would've clicked, but now you mention it, it seems so incredibly obvious. I can totally see that, absolutely, and I think that'll be my official headcanon now. That could make for a good fic. Hm. 

I always like the way Morgan reacts whenever a teammate is in danger. He gets so excitable and "I need to go help them NOW" about it all. It's a great example of his deep protective streak, which is one of my favorite traits of his. 

I love Morgan's protectiveness.  He clearly cares about the team and would do anything for any of them.  Also, yeah, we don't find out about Morgan's dad for a while, right?  But now when I rewatch, I notice it, and it's my own headcanon for why they got so close so fast.  

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, I get the feeling there was a lot more to everything with Rebecca's adopted family beyond what we learned in that scene. I don't doubt the mom when she says they loved Rebecca and took care of her-I think they did. And you can be the best parent in the world, but if you take in a child who had a really tough past, that's going to be difficult no matter what. But still, yeah, the general reaction to her disappearance was rather odd. 

As for Garner's twisted form of love...well, like Diana said, he was emotionally disturbed, so... I think he figured if he kept her with him, she'd never be in danger from the outside world again. People who love others protect them from harm, after all, so I think he thought that's what he was doing here, as an attempt to make up for not protecting her and the family in that fire. But he was too screwed up to realize the harm he was causing her as well. 

But yeah, he had a lot of problems. As disturbing and dangerous as he clearly was, I do find it sad that he could never find peace over the tragedy he and his family went through. 

I agree here.  It was so strange about her adoptive family, I wonder if there was more to it than what was said.  Also, I felt for Garner, he never realized what he was doing would scar her for life, and that he couldn't find peace because he wasn't able to save his family.  His delusion was so real, that he thought he was doing the right thing.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 

Aw, I still think their friendship is cute, myself. I'd say it's gotten stronger over the years, actually. 

But agreed on Garcia protecting Reid's secret here, yes. Lots of great moments with the two of them throughout here. 

Again, agreed. I think the fact that he realized that the team trusts him with their secrets, though, as well as the fact that he could talk about his mom to Garcia without her passing any judgment, and the team finally got to meet her, helped make it easier for him to say that out loud at the end. He's starting to realize that he can be honest and open about personal aspects of his life around them, too. 

I find it interesting that Hotch seemed surprised by that information. Given he's the unit chief, I would think he might've learned about that information from Reid's personnel file at some point. 

Yes, I like that the team trusts him with the secrets, and Garcia keeping his.  I do think Garcia's support helped him make that statement to Garner knowing that Hotch and Morgan could hear him and for once, he was allowing them into his personal life.  I get the sense that he kept everyone at a distance as much as possible.  In the season 1 thread, I mentioned that he once said, "That is exactly what I get for trusting someone, it gets thrown back in my face." -> It's clear that he isn't as trusting as he appears, and yet, here he is trusting them with his biggest secret.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

LOL, I love them arguing over the bomb stuff here :D. And leave it to Reid to walk right into the line of fire, and leave it to the rest of the team to respond with, "What? No, Reid! What are you thinking?!" :p. 

For some reason, Morgan gets the credit for being reckless, but if you think about it, Reid is truly reckless.  He was reckless here, in Derailed, and in some future episodes as well.  I feel like the team is always asking that question of him.

29 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I love, love, love this whole end scene, for the very reasons you note. I first saw this episode when I was staying over at a friend's place one weekend. We decided to watch her season 2 DVD of this show (after she showed me the first part of this two-parter), and by the time it got to the moment when Hotch went to Elle's house to clean her walls, I distinctly remember thinking, "Okay, I really like these people." And I remember eagerly looking forward to what was next on the DVD as well. Season 2 in general is always going to be a personal favorite for me because of the fact that it's what pushed me to properly check out this show further :). Plus, there's just a lot of great episodes in it as well, ones I look forward to discussing with you as you make your way through the season :D. 

I love the song, too. Like I said in the season 1 thread, I can't hear "The Riddle" anymore without thinking of this episode. 

As always, enjoying reading your thoughts on the episodes! Can't wait to see what else you'll have to say about this season going forward :D. 

That ending was just unbelievably awesome.  I thought the same thing, "I really like this team"

Is that the song that's playing?  I didn't know the name of it.

I love reading your replies, as well.

Also, hopefully, I'll get to watch more episodes soon! 

[JenJenBosco]

I watched P911 today.

I really liked this episode.  It's different than the usual cases since it doesn't involve serial killers.  It focused on the internet's involvement in helping getting children...

Spoiler

I wonder why Morgan doesn't react more strongly to crimes against children.  Although he did act more strongly as the episode went on.  

I enjoyed Katie, and I wish given that she was a member of the BAU that she could come back.  Also loved that she joked about herself at the beginning.  "Really?  I heard she was a bitch."  "No one ever called you that, Katie."  "Well, not to my face."

"We don't need to worry about paperwork, we have Garcia." -> interesting.  

I liked Elle's accidental text bringing her back in...and loved the conversation with Spencer and Hotch.

"Yesterday I found myself looking forward to watching a soap opera..."  "Which one?"  "I need to go back to work."  LOL

I liked the mentions of warrants being approved, and that I liked the mention of Katie wanting to use her first name...it's more personal.  

I liked the surprise of the kid doing that to himself.  

I really like JJ and Garcia together, they seem to make a good team, and I can see why they hang out outside of work, and why Garcia is

Spoiler

Henry's godmother later on.

 

"Did they teach you that in FBI school?" "Nah, they taught me that in Brooklynn."

At some point, Gideon sends Morgan away from the pedophile, and I wonder if he was beginning to put the pieces together on

Spoiler

Morgan's past with Buford.

"Come on Genius, do something genius-like."

I like that they helped Kevin, and found another pedophile in the process, so that at least there wasn't just one bad guy being put away.

It sucks that the Media ruined things for the team, even if they eventually used it to help them.  

Katie's struggle with moving on to the next kid makes me wonder more about how the team deals with choosing one case over another.  

I thought it was interesting that they had team run out of time, and yet, still save the kid.  I also felt for the mom at the end, she's going to have a hard time reestablishing a close relationship with the son she lost when he was one-year old.  I wonder if the mom ever gave up on the child?  or did she always wonder what happened?

Hotch said something interesting to Katie at the end there, "You know, Katie, no one has ever been doing this as long as you have, maybe it's time to get out?"

"I don't know if i can anymore."

It makes me wonder if the team members wonder the same thing.

Overall, I really enjoyed the case and episode.

[JenJenBosco]

The Perfect Storm:

This team of unsubs have been working on this for years, which is interesting as things change throughout the years.  Which puts them in the BAU's radar.  It's funny that Jacksonville thought it was 1 unsub, while the BAU jumps up to 2 unsubs, but it ended up being 3.

I thought the reason for the videos suddenly being sent were interesting.  ->The team were upset that the new victim's mother went to the media.  I find it interesting that it increased the time between the kills.

I liked that the team didn't just focus on the victims they knew about, but searched for other possible connections and victims using victimology.  

I liked the mentions of other pairs and the understanding of the 'Perfect Storm'.  I also enjoyed the profile scene.  

I really feel for Garcia in the episode, but I liked that despite not being okay, she managed to be totally professional.  ->  I loved her surprise that it wasn't Morgan calling, but Gideon. Also, loved his compliment after what happened with the Fisher King.

I thought it was interesting that the wife pretended to be a victim and was the dominate personality.  It certainly added a twist to the story.  -> i thought it was interesting that the team felt bad about asking her to be in a room with Tony, and she ended up being the killer...

I liked the fight with Tony and Hotch's "What you couldn't wait?"  

I enjoyed the moments meshed together as the team separate groupings figure out that Amber was the Dominate.  "Believe me, she'll never be the same."

Only 1 in 8 abused become the abuser...that's interesting.  

Overall, I thought this episode was interesting and kept my attention, I was certainly surprised by Amber's position as the Dominate the first time I watched, and I liked the reactions by the team at the end.  "At least the families will get closure."  "And we did save Tiffany Pierce."

[JenJenBosco]

Psychodrama:

A serial killer in the making...I liked the start of this.  The escalation was interesting.

This is the first time where we see Haley since the fisher king, and it's Haley upset because Hotch was missing and not answering the phone.  "I know this job is important to you, but we're important, too.  ...I don't want you to wake up one day in some random city and realize that you don't know your own son." ->  I do understand her point, and I think that Jack really was the turning point for her.  The point where it was no longer about the couple, but about the family.

I loved the conversation from Spencer's question, "What would you call him?" "Pervert" "Scumbag" "Ass--" "Please let's focus"

I like how they have been discussing how to hit the ground running in these cases lately...and each member says  "Okay I should do this or that" until the options are out.

"Keep it clean and don't call me honey" -> that made me laugh.  I enjoyed Garcia's little freaked out pacing that lead to the lifts realization.  

I think really enjoy the Morgan and Gideon pairing.  I've noticed this in previous episodes, but I really do.  I also enjoyed Spencer explaining the geographical profiling even though it only narrowed down the possibilities to a few hundred thousand.  

I did like how the bank robber was cocky enough to do a wheelie as he got away.   "He did almost everything that you predicted."  "It sucks to be right."

While I enjoy the analysis of this episode, I'm not a fan of bank robbery episodes, and I am not fan of this weird situation that the unsub does.  

I did enjoy the pause to see Hotch watching wee little Jack walking and kicking a ball soccer player in the making....Morgan just shrugged it off "So fill a new one when you get home".  I liked seeing Hotch's struggles throughout the case.

I do enjoy when they get more than one guy.

I wonder why Spencer has been studying a lot of LA maps...there's no follow up to why he says this?

Why did Morgan not use the key when it was offered to him?

Spoiler

Given how many people they have been able to see as high, I wonder why later on they don't do something sooner about Reid, when they should be able to tell.

I thought it was weird the Hotch had the authority to tell the paramedics not to given him pain meds after shooting him.  

I did enjoy the end scene.  Everyone asleep except Hotch and Gideon.  Hotch telling Gideon that the trainees toured the BAU and they all want to be a part of the BAU, and he said it was a great job, but he didn't tell them, "I didnt tell them what it's like to spend their life in this hell."  "It's fun, isn't it?" "I mean who's to blame for a guy like Shepard? His mother? Society?  All of it, none of it?  it's gets worse and worse with each case."  "Save one life, we save the world." "Yeah.  Well, one thing I didn't tell trainees."  "What's that?"  "We do not get paid enough."

I liked this conversation because it makes you wonder how (if it wasn't the TV thing) these people are able to continue for so long. 

Spoiler

I mean, yeah Elle and Gideon quit, but it take Hotch and Morgan over a decade to quit, and personally, I don't understand how Spencer or JJ or even, Garcia are still on the team after this much time and everything they've seen. 

Anyway, I did not like this episode after the last couple.  I don't really know why.

[Annber03]

Whee, glad to see this conversation resuming :D!

We disagree a little bit here on the episode preferences-I don't mind "Psychodrama" (though I think "Perfect Storm" is the best of the three you're discussing here), and think "P911" is probably among the more "eh" episodes of season 2. I don't really know why I can't really get into "P911" as much, because the case is interesting, albeit heartbreaking, and it deals with a very serious and important subject worth calling attention to. But it's just not one I really think to watch much when I'm catching reruns for some reason.

That said, there are indeed some really good moments in it. I like the acknowledgement of Elle being so eager to come back, and Hotch's concern that she's not ready. And I do love this exchange:

21 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

"Yesterday I found myself looking forward to watching a soap opera..."  "Which one?"  "I need to go back to work."  LOL

Shame the conversation got cut short, 'cause I'd love to have heard Elle's answer to Reid's question, and would've enjoyed hearing Reid ramble on about his interest in soap operas :D. The only one my family ever followed was "All My Children", 'cause it was my mom's favorite soap opera, so I like to think that's a favorite of his in my little universe :p. 

(Side note, however: I'm really not big on Reid's hairdo here. It makes his face look odd :p.)

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"Did they teach you that in FBI school?" "Nah, they taught me that in Brooklyn."

LOL, I like that, too. I like those little one-off details and jokes. Reid and Elle really did have a good rapport with each other. 

I also agree that seeing Morgan's reactions to everything throughout this episode are even more interesting knowing what we know about his past now. 

20 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

I really feel for Garcia in the episode, but I liked that despite not being okay, she managed to be totally professional. 

Agreed. I like how they showed what the job is like for her, too, that just 'cause she's safely back at the office doesn't mean she's still not affected by what she's seeing/hearing/reading. The way she just quietly shuts down everything at the end, and the look on her face...that would be me, for sure. 

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I thought it was interesting that the wife pretended to be a victim and was the dominate personality.  It certainly added a twist to the story.  -> i thought it was interesting that the team felt bad about asking her to be in a room with Tony, and she ended up being the killer.

I'm always struck by the scene where she removes the ring when Reid points out it looks like one that belonged to one of their victims. She does so well at looking so genuinely horrified at the thought of wearing a victim's ring...definitely had me fooled at first, and makes it easy to see where the team was fooled as well. 

As for "Psychodrama", I remember it was one of the earlier episodes I remember seeing when I was starting to get into the show-I was watching the season 2 DVD at my friend's place, and it was late and I was sleepy, so I kinda kept nodding in and out of this particular episode. I remember thinking at the time that the premise sounded really interesting, but I fell asleep before the revelation of who the unsub was. When I was able to properly catch the episode in full later on, I did feel like the reveal didn't quite match up to whatever I'd initially assumed the motive might've been for the case. 

But I do like that moment when Hotch nabs him, and he is so beyond pissed at this guy and what he's done, and he makes that abundantly clear. The way he growls out, "They're children, for God's sake"...damn. 

19 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

This is the first time where we see Haley since the fisher king, and it's Haley upset because Hotch was missing and not answering the phone.  "I know this job is important to you, but we're important, too.  ...I don't want you to wake up one day in some random city and realize that you don't know your own son." ->  I do understand her point, and I think that Jack really was the turning point for her.  The point where it was no longer about the couple, but about the family.

Exactly. 

She also mentions Jack having a condition here, but we never learn what it is, and there's never any mention of it again. Anyone here have any theories on that? 

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I did enjoy the pause to see Hotch watching wee little Jack walking and kicking a ball soccer player in the making....Morgan just shrugged it off "So fill a new one when you get home".  

It's interesting to see Morgan's reactions to Hotch's relationship with Jack throughout this series-his attitude here seems so nonchalant, but then as the show goes on he seems to become more and more understanding of and sympathetic to what Hotch misses out on with his son.

Spoiler

I think that really helps explain why he decides to quit the BAU after Hank is born. 

It's also interesting to see Morgan's attitude here when you consider how much he no doubt missed out on with his own dad growing up, both because of what his dad did for a living and, of course, because of how soon he lost him.

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I wonder why Spencer has been studying a lot of LA maps...there's no follow up to why he says this?

I mentioned a while back writing a story about Reid and Lila reuniting after the events of "Somebody's Watching", and I made reference to that line in said story. My explanation was that he was studying them because he'd hoped to return to L.A. and reunite with Lila again someday :D. I don't know what other theories or explanations anyone has, if any (I mean, this is Reid we're talking about, so for all we know he could've studied those maps just for the hell of it), but I'd love to hear them if anyone has any!

Your comment about why some of the team members have stayed as long as they have is a good question, too. I wonder about that as well. They've certainly had their occasional moments of doubt and second guessing and such, after all. I can generally guess at the reasons why those who've been here for so long are still here, but yeah, it is an interesting thing to discuss and wonder about. 

As always, enjoying your thoughts! Really look forward to continuing on with season 2-so many great episodes coming up that I'm so excited to talk about. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Annber03

[JenJenBosco]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Whee, glad to see this conversation resuming :D!

We disagree a little bit here on the episode preferences-I don't mind "Psychodrama" (though I think "Perfect Storm" is the best of the three you're discussing here), and think "P911" is probably among the more "eh" episodes of season 2. I don't really know why I can't really get into "P911" as much, because the case is interesting, albeit heartbreaking, and it deals with a very serious and important subject worth calling attention to. But it's just not one I really think to watch much when I'm catching reruns for some reason.

continuing on with season 2-so many great episodes coming up that I'm so excited to talk about. 

I can't really explain what it is about Psychodrama that I don't like compared to the other two, I suppose it just kept switching around.  He was a bank robber than a sexual sadist then a child killer because of his mom...It's just felt a little all over the place to me.  However, like you said with P911, it has really good moments.  Also, agree that Perfect Storm is definitely the best of the three.

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Shame the conversation got cut short, 'cause I'd love to have heard Elle's answer to Reid's question, and would've enjoyed hearing Reid ramble on about his interest in soap operas :D. The only one my family ever followed was "All My Children", 'cause it was my mom's favorite soap opera, so I like to think that's a favorite of his in my little universe :p. 

(Side note, however: I'm really not big on Reid's hairdo here. It makes his face look odd :p.)

LOL, I like that, too. I like those little one-off details and jokes. Reid and Elle really did have a good rapport with each other. 

Now, I really want to hear Spencer go on and on about Soap Operas, at first I was surprised he'd be interested, but I imagine that he likes just about everything.  Also, I dislike his hair too, but I like the glasses, and I enjoyed Spencer and Elle in this episode a lot.  Throughout her time on the show they made an interesting and good pair.  

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Exactly. 

She also mentions Jack having a condition here, but we never learn what it is, and there's never any mention of it again. Anyone here have any theories on that? 

It's interesting to see Morgan's reactions to Hotch's relationship with Jack throughout this series-his attitude here seems so nonchalant, but then as the show goes on he seems to become more and more understanding of and sympathetic to what Hotch misses out on with his son.

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I think that really helps explain why he decides to quit the BAU after Hank is born. 

It's also interesting to see Morgan's attitude here when you consider how much he no doubt missed out on with his own dad growing up, both because of what his dad did for a living and, of course, because of how soon he lost him.

I think this was the first time Hotch realized that he might be missing out on his son's life.  It's never stated, but I do wonder what would have happened if he hadn't made it for Jack's delivery (I assume he made it), but given their cases and leaving suddenly, I do wonder if he almost missed it or did miss it...what then?  Was he there for sonograms and other things?  Was this the first thing he missed?  He clearly missed his first steps (at least that's what he said in the episode, right?)  

As for Morgan:

Spoiler

Morgan clearly starts off as shrugging it off, but he fully expected that Hotch would quit to be with his son, and later on, I believe he makes it clear that growing up without his father, who died in the line of duty, affected him and he didn't want that for his child.  I fully expected him to quit because of his son, I'm surprised he didn't quit when he found out she was pregnant.  After what happened with Hotch, I always believed Morgan didn't want kids because he knew he couldn't keep doing the job if he had one.  He couldn't risk leaving his child fatherless due to dying like his father.  I don't know if this is headcannon or not, it's been awhile since I've seen the Foyett arc, but didn't Morgan try to convince Reid and others that Hotch should quit because of this?  Also, at the start of season 9, wasn't it the same thing?  Or did I headcannon that?

 

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

 

  Hide contents

 

I mentioned a while back writing a story about Reid and Lila reuniting after the events of "Somebody's Watching", and I made reference to that line in said story. My explanation was that he was studying them because he'd hoped to return to L.A. and reunite with Lila again someday :D. I don't know what other theories or explanations anyone has, if any (I mean, this is Reid we're talking about, so for all we know he could've studied those maps just for the hell of it), but I'd love to hear them if anyone has any!

Your comment about why some of the team members have stayed as long as they have is a good question, too. I wonder about that as well. They've certainly had their occasional moments of doubt and second guessing and such, after all. I can generally guess at the reasons why those who've been here for so long are still here, but yeah, it is an interesting thing to discuss and wonder about. 

As always, enjoying your thoughts! Really look forward to continuing on with season 2-so many great episodes coming up that I'm so excited to talk about. 

I like the idea of Spencer reuniting with Lila and that being the reason for studying the maps.  I'd like to believe that however short-lived it was they were together for some time, however, I headcannon that he has had other people in his life besides his mom but no one knows because he's a private person.  Maybe it's because of all his trauma, he needs more than the team.

As for the team members, I honestly wonder about it because of scenes like the one with Gideon and Hotch or the one with Elle and Hotch (in Unfinished Business).  Just like watching Garcia sadly turn off the screens at the end of Perfect Storm, it shows how awful things can get, and that they need to decompress sometimes.  -> I don't think I could do it, and I wonder how they do it.  

Although, I think this is one of the reasons why:

Spoiler

I'm not surprised that Elle leaves shortly, Gideon leaves at the end of the season (I didn't know about the behind the scenes issues, the first time I watched I thought it was planned), even having mentioning that it got too much for Rossi (he took 10 years off before coming back, right?) and noting that Katie had left the team...and others, it just makes sense that more of the team should reach their breaking points after so many years.

Anyway, yeah it's been months, but I did get the chance to watch yesterday, and I should have more time now, so hopefully more soon!  I also loved hearing your thoughts as well.

[JenJenBosco]

Aftermath:

The opening was funny.  

"Don't anybody go home?" 

"You're still here."

"Yeah, you don't want to model your life after me."

"If it makes you feel any better Hotch and Morgan went home."

"Hotch is married and Morgan is Morgan." 

Hmm-mmm, there was a mention of the mindset being different if the victims are alive.  

I liked this case, in that they had to figure out the changes in victimology.  I also loved the detective on the case.  Her fighting and determination to stay with the team to the point that she stayed in the hotel.  I liked the focus on how rape is treated differently because the victims aren't killed.  Every one of the victims are still struggling with what happened, and I liked the focus on it.  

I loved the focus on the victims, and I liked the unraveling of Elle, even though I'll miss her.  

I feel like the entire case had a different feel to everything.  Just like Hotch mentioned on the plane.  It's interesting to evaluate.  Also, loved seeing the different things each of the agents did in their rooms.  It was brief, but I liked it.  

"Elle, he's dead.  You're right here.  You won."  "Then here's to winning."

This conversation is interesting in that, his victims are also 'winning' since they aren't killed and after have to deal with things that someone killed doesn't have to deal with.  

I loved Callahan (local detective) saying "I don't care about your practice, three women have been raped after coming here, that's a pattern."

I love the reactions to Morgan's phone call with Garcia at the clinic.   

I loved Gideon's reaction the phone call guy.  "So, I fill out my personal information, and you just let anyone you have working for you for minimum wage."

I forgot that they came so close to saving a woman, but they left because they thought no one was home.  -> poor woman.  I kind of feel for the local when Elle attacked her verbally.  Also loved Hotch telling the medical guy not to tell the woman that 'she's lucky that her injuries were minor'.

Elle says she's good to do this, but Morgan, Gideon, and Hotch should have seen that she wasn't.  Also, where was Reid?  It's said that Morgan is by himself outside of the house with Gideon and Hotch around the corner, and Reid isn't seen anywhere...for that matter, neither is JJ.   I'm still a little surprised that she killed the unsub, but at least he can't rape anyone else. -> They know it's him, but they can't do anything about it.  They couldn't get him to confess and It sucks.  

If you listen to Gideon when he tells Elle to get some air, I have to wonder if he was hoping that she'd be capable of killing him.  "Think about this job, think about what you're capable of."  She shot him three times, how could it be ruled in her favor?  Funny that she does technically get arrested though.  

It's interesting that the team leaves if they can pinpoint the unsub, even if they don't get to arrest him. -> like in this episode.  The team was leaving at noon the next day, even though William walked.  

Overall, I liked this episode certainly different.  

[JenJenBosco]

The Boogeyman:

The Hotch and Elle portion of the episode:

I find it funny that Hotch knows something is wrong, and she tries to point out that Morgan and Reid act the same, apparently?  Hotch defends them, but she just deflects.  

Gideon reflects that she's innocent until proven guilty, but they're concerned that she went against everything they stand for. 

I find Hotch following Elle interesting because if he was a civilian, it'd be stalking.  I do wonder what her plan was when she threw away her phone?  At least she knew she was being followed.  

I liked the confrontation at the graveyard.  I found it interesting that Hotch told her if he had evidence he'd arrest her.  

Hotch clearly planned to fire her, so seeing her resigning was a preemptive strike and not an admission of guilt.  I loved her speech about getting a phone call for a case, and her admission that she wouldn't change a thing.  Even though she killed someone.

I wonder if Hotch thought about this when he killed Foyett with his bare hands.  If he could go back, do it all over again, would he still kill him?  Did he wonder if he was like Elle?  Or did he feel like his killing was different?  Curious, isn't?

Goodbye Elle.

The team portion: 

I liked the team interactions. I liked the conversation about Elle.  "She hit was she was aiming for." "Not what I meant."  "I know." Their fears are interesting.  JJ is afraid of the woods and her small town was surrounded by them.  Reid and Morgan were afraid of the dark.  

I liked the case, which was creepy and interesting.  Especially since the unsub was a child.  Side note, how many cases have the unsub be a child?

Even knowing about the case the night before, the team doesn't leave until the next day, interesting.  

The buddy system ended up making things easier for this kid.  Poor kids.  

Loved the 'haunted house' thing, and the conversation between Garcia and Reid.  "...She may still be in the house." "Garcia, I'm siting in the house, in the dark, alone." "While you're waiting for a potential murderer to come home...kind of dangerous, kind of sexy."  "Gotta go."  "You're having creepy fun."  He hangs up.  Morgan's behind him, he freaks, and Morgan says, "You really are afraid of the dark."  "I'm working on that."  "You should work a little harder."

"When this is all said and done, I'd like to hang his head on my wall." -Morgan

Totally love the interactions after they find Finnigan.  "What are reading over there?" 

"So, we're looking for a guy who really hates spinach."

"She almost died, I'd be drinking, too."  

Loved JJ's woods story.  "Psh, I don't know.  Why is he still afraid of the dark?" "Yeah Reid, why are you afraid of the dark?" "Because of the inherent absence of light."  "JJ, that was pretty good.  Just remember that payback's a bitch."  "OOhh, I'm so afraid."

"Now the poor kid has to go into Child custody."  "It's the law"  "Yeah, so is Jaywalking, doesnt mean i have to like it."

I like that they were wrong about the unsub.  I liked the interrogation.  Morgan attacks his sense of manhood, and it's funny, at least to me.  

I did like the father trying to protect his son, but he let a killer walk free.  It's interesting how many parents are willing to protect their killer children.  He was willing to sign a confession, willing to go to prison for his son.  ->totally feel for him at the end.  That look with Morgan when his son was arrested.

I liked that the last little girl was a fighter.  Also, the kid, "Why did you hurt those kids?"  "Because I wanted to."  

I liked that Reid acknowledged that he felt guilty and told Morgan, and Morgan told him it wasn't his fault.  

Overall, I liked the episode.  I thought it was well-done.  

[normasm]

Hotch killed the Reaper who had killed his ex-wife and threatened to find and kill his son. Elle killed a suspected (OK, he did it) rapist who triggered something in her memory, which we aren't privy to, but is probably connected to a rape experience. She killed him because he taunted her with his getting away with his crimes, thanked her for making it happen. Hotch's killing came from abject terror and loss. Elle's killing came from anger and disgust mixed with dread and not a little misplaced guilt. 

I liked the team part of the episode, too.

[idiotwaltz]

Currently in the middle of a season 2 rewatch from The Last Word onwards. The show had a much different tone when Gideon was around. Don’t get me wrong, I love Rossi, but there’s a quiet intensity to the Gideon episodes that doesn’t quite come across in the middle and later years of the show. 

 

[idiotwaltz]

I (along with the rest of the world) watched Squid Game a couple of weeks back and the set up of the games reminded me of Legacy, so I rewatched that over the weekend. It’s not my favourite episode of the season, but I do love the quiet smack down Hotch gives the Kansas City police chief who says, “Can bums even be missing?” Also this episode and, I think, Birthright in S3, gave me fleeting Hotch/JJ vibes. Plus Reid getting propositioned by prostitutes never gets old.