Reek fka Theon: He Lost His Favorite Toy

[90PercentGravity]

Poor Reek. He may be the only evidence that karma exists in Westeros. I'm surprised her didn't just cut his own throat when they handed him the razor.

[stillshimpy]

That's what I told my husband.  "Yeah, poor Theon, but he could have killed himself and ended the damned misery."  

Then he was busy selling out poor Rickon and Bran as much as he could and any pity I had for him withered on the vine.  Did Theon just send Ramsay in the direction of where Rickon actually is though? I will actually have a seizure if Theon gets poor Rickon killed. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

How defeated is Theon? Has he really given up? Ramsay seemed pretty confident but really, how stupid would he have to be to kill Ramsay right in front of Roose in the middle of the damn Dreadfort. Would be smarter to take him out while on a "hunt".

[stillshimpy]

I hope that's true. I never really liked Theon much, but I did feel sorry for him last year and in a lot of ways, I'd like him to be the person to kill Ramsay in a way that won't actually cause Theon any more pain.  

Rickon, who is the only person in any kind of danger from Ramsay when it comes to remaining Starks, actually isn't known to any of these crumbs by sight, so there might be hope yet.  It would be nice if Theon could have a moment's redemption before shuffling off the mortal coil.  He really did seem to flinch when they were talking about Robb's death.  

Maybe he wanted to wait until he has a shot at both Ramsay and Bolton?  But I don't know.  He's been so badly abused, it's difficult to believe he's actually got any plan any longer. 

[abcfsk]

Maybe he'll have one of those 'remember who you are' moments when forced to do something really ugly together with Ramsay on raid. That's the thought that struck me when I saw he was now his loyal dog in episode 2. Just as likely for this show he won't remember though. 

[stillshimpy]

Maybe he'll have one of those 'remember who you are' moments

I guess the problem with that might be, would that help anything?  Who is Theon?  He's the guy that chose to betray the Starks on multiple occasions.  He killed those two farm boys as props, but what was he going to do if he caught the real boys? Do we have reason to believe it would have been something substantially different? 

He killed old sideburns, who I think was named Roderick, right in front of Bran -- who was begging him not to.  God knows what he was planning on making Osha do when Luwin interrupted him.  The problem with the theory that "remember who you really are" might be "someone who sort of sucks at a core level anyway".  

My hope is that he'll kill Ramsay at a key moment not because he has some kind of Whittled Vadar moment in which he can still feel the good within himself, but rather, that he has a LOT of reasons to personally hate the boogers out of the Boltons.  

If we're relying on his innate goodness or strength of character to make the difference, I feel safe in saying: that's the least likely thing to save Theon or anyone, gods help him.  I do actually feel for the guy.  No one could ever deserve what he's been put through.  

What I was intrigued by was finding out how much he has in common with Ramsay who is apparently just desperate to win his own father's approval. 

The Seven Kingdoms: Where Daddy Issues make you more twisted than Joffrey's conscience. 

[abcfsk]

"Remember who you are, boy - the guy who sucks and raided and killed and betrayed because of daddy issues but who's not QUITE as horrible as the worst man in westeros. Don't torture these innocent civilians." - what passes as a sweet, warm moment in GoT.

We have seen him getting the 'I screwed the pooch and should've stuck with those who cared for me in some ways" look on his face so he could still connect with.. something other than his newfound Stockholm loyalty.

[WhiteStumbler]

I wonder if that was why Ramsay was so insistent on changing Theon's name.  No matter what Theon is or has done, he's still a Greyjoy.  But as Roose reminded his bastard, "You're not a Bolton, you're a Snow".

Names carry SO much importance in this world. Having two names (even if one is "Snow" or "Sand") is infinitely better than having just one name, and having a first name and a house name is even better than that. Robb got a huge part of his identity from, as Theon said, 'being who he was meant to be', a Stark. For Ramsay to strip both names away from Theon is nearly as much of a blow to Theon's identity as stripping him of his 'favorite toy' (emphasis on "nearly").

[stillshimpy]

Names carry SO much importance in this world. Having two names (even if one is "Snow" or "Sand") is infinitely better than having just one name, and having a first name and a house name is even better than that. Robb got a huge part of his identity from, as Theon said, 'being who he was meant to be', a Stark. For Ramsay to strip both names away from Theon is nearly as much of a blow to Theon's identity as stripping him of his 'favorite toy' (emphasis on "nearly").

That and I wonder if part of the reason Ramsay has reveled so much in the complete destruction of Theon -- it was sort of horrifying to learn that Ramsay was supposed to keep him as a hostage and not mistreat him -- is because he was the eldest son of an important house, an heir to something.  Even though Theon was not held in high regard by his family, his name, his parentage had enough importance in that world to make him important.  

Ramsay took that away from Theon.  Any dignity, any pride.  Any hope of passing on a name, or a title.  Ramsay made Theon worthless in the eyes of that world and Ramsay also seems to really take continued daily pleasure in that.  Although he's clearly a really twisted, sick person, that's not just about being a Sadist.  There does seem to be something personal in it.  

That's part of the reason having Ramsay in any way, shape or form trying to find the Stark boys is so deeply terrifying.  It's also about the only chance I think Theon has of ever sort of snapping out of it long enough to do anything to thwart him.  Hearing that Robb Stark is dead, well, okay he betrayed Robb. Knowing that Winterfell is was sacked and is now Winterpile, again, Theon basically did that. These are all just more "well, these are direct results of Theon's actions and it's over and done by the time he hears about it."  

The only hope, I think, that Theon might act out against Ramsay is if there's something happening right now that he might be able to prevent.  Even that I don't know, but Ramsay was so cruel to Theon, that if Theon thought someone else was in for the same treatment, he might try to stop it.  

I know he didn't with that poor girl, but the only thing that can be said about that is at least that was relatively quick, compared to what Theon went through. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

That's a great point that Ramsay takes PERSONAL satisfaction in Theon's destruction not just because he likes to cause pain, but because he is destroying that which he could never be a - legitimate heir. Well, maybe not NEVER - but Bolton doesn't seem real eager to legitimize him, and now he has a "fat young bride" and may have legitimate heirs later (assuming he doesn't already, which I assume he doesn't or they'd have been left in charge. Unless they are young.)

[stillshimpy]

and now he has a "fat young bride" and may have legitimate heirs later (assuming he doesn't already, which I assume he doesn't or they'd have been left in charge. Unless they are young

Oh God, and just like that, I am terrified for Bolton's wife....and that's on top of being terrified for her because she's Bolton's wife. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Oh God, and just like that, I am terrified for Bolton's wife....and that's on top of being terrified for her because she's Bolton's wife.

Yep, am sure she will raise her boys not to throw rocks at peasants. But their father will teach them to aim for their heads.

Actually wait, she's a Frey. She'd probably tell them to invite them to dinner and THEN throw rocks at them.

[WhiteStumbler]

I am glad that Theon is now Reek. Reek is a better person. Ramsay has done Theon (and the rest of The Realm) a service in "altering" Theon and creating Reek.

 

Theon: Turned on the family that raised him.

Reek: Loyal to Ramsay, even to the point of wanting to stay in a dog kennel.

 

Theon: Tried to screw anything with boobs (who would listen to his bragging) in order to raise his self-esteem.

Reek: Not so much into screwing anything, utterly without ego.

 

Theon: Took Winterfell, killed two innocent children, and beheaded Ser Rodrick attempting to inflate his standing with the (terrible, awful) crew of his ship The Sea Lice. Theon's idiocy directly resulted in the destruction of Winterfell.

Reek: Gentle, respectful, appreciative of any kindness.

 

Theon: Worshiped The Drowned God - "What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger."

Reek: Worships Ramsay, is now unlikely to rise again in any fashion.

 

Theon: "I have Daddy issues."

Reek: "I love Master!"

[RadiantAerynSun]

Kind of fitting that Ramsay keeps him in the dog kennel, considering he is neutered!! (& then some)