andromeda331 July 4, 2018 Share July 4, 2018 Watching the episode Battle of Wheels. Jill is just unreasonable! She caused the problem. She moves in her pottery wheel into the garage which is already cramp from the hot rod Tim's working on and tools. She says she wants space. Tim suggests the basement and she gets mad. Why? That's a perfect solution she can move her pottery wheel down there, have her potpourri, and play opera without Tim complaining or being annoyed by the smell of the garage. She gets mad at him for being annoyed by her moving into the garage and playing opera and decides to make schedule making sure she gets all the time and Tim none or when he's asleep at work. Tim talks to Wilson who thinks Jill's doing that to be closer with Tim to spend time with him. Okay, that makes sense. So he goes into talk to her. Except she tells him she wanted space to get away from him. Then why move into the garage? That's where Tim's going to be and spends a lot of time! She easily could have set up in the basement and there wouldn't be a problem. Link to comment
readster July 4, 2018 Share July 4, 2018 Quote I remember being so surprised when Marty and Nancy separated. I didn't remember that happening before on a TV show, on a family show. Usually that ends up being one episode and at the end the couple makes up. But no, they divorce and remain divorce. I don't think that was the plan with the couple but if you look through the seasons there were enough cracks that when it does happen its not as out of the blue. Marty and Nancy had problems after the twins were born and Marty going from job to job. Those things do happen an can lead to divorce. Moving in with his brother after the divorce and sharing custody of his kids. Even him giving into his daughter's tantrums while not right you can see why he does. His daughters are going through a hard time too. Their parents are divorcing and she now has to spend half the time at her uncle, aunt and cousins house. Or when he gets annoyed that Tim and Jill butting into his parenting style it wasn't really about that but him feeling like a complete failure his marriage failed, he was going from one crappy job to another, he didn't have a house and had to live with his brother and his family, none of that can be easy. Exactly, nothing felt out of the blue it felt natural. Even with the parts played for laughs including the one daughter's over an hour tantrum (not losing her voice in the process), but I know people wrote letters to the show saying: "I had that happen the other day, thanks for showing I'm not alone." Same goes with Jeff, they had it where his business ideas were failing and he moves back in with his own mother. I loved that it was Lucille who finally got Jeff going on another idea, but one she could actually do. Having both Tim and Marty going: "Oh not again and with mom's money?" Even with Marty having problems, he knew Jeff and being the oldest of the brothers, that had to be hard to watch constantly. Quote Watching the episode Battle of Wheels. Jill is just unreasonable! She caused the problem. She moves in her pottery wheel into the garage which is already cramp from the hot rod Tim's working on and tools. She says she wants space. Tim suggests the basement and she gets mad. Why? That's a perfect solution she can move her pottery wheel down there, have her potpourri, and play opera without Tim complaining or being annoyed by the smell of the garage. She gets mad at him for being annoyed by her moving into the garage and playing opera and decides to make schedule making sure she gets all the time and Tim none or when he's asleep at work. Tim talks to Wilson who thinks Jill's doing that to be closer with Tim to spend time with him. Okay, that makes sense. So he goes into talk to her. Except she tells him she wanted space to get away from him. Then why move into the garage? That's where Tim's going to be and spends a lot of time! She easily could have set up in the basement and there wouldn't be a problem. Plus, when Jill said she did it more to "get away from you" it doesn't make sense. I know they were trying to do a twist on things that Jill just wanted to get Tim away (like when she squirted oil under the old hot rod when she was working on a project). However, at that point, the basement was pretty much a void, they didn't have a lot of storage issues, they never talked about heating in the garage or basement until Randy's room was built 3 years later. It just made Jill come across as really unreasonable. I was on Tim's side all the time and WIlson comes off looking like his advice is completely backwards. I was just watching Jill's high school reunion episode. Something that just bothered me was how Bonnie getting pregnant with Jack's kid and them getting married was so secret. Now, granted they put it down that Bonnie was just 3 months pregnant when they graduated. Not like talk wouldn't have traveled, but they acted like Bonnie had no other friends and it seemed that both Jack and Bonnie had a shot gun wedding and then had their daughter Katie just 4 years later after they figured out money and parenting. So, really, Jill and Bonnie had no other friends who talked to Jill or her family to realize that Bonnie got knocked up. I got Bonnie didn't know how to tell Jill and she even said the crossing guard told her what had happened with Jack dumping Jill for Bonnie. However, it seemed more like this was a case of a boyfriend falling for his girlfriend's best friend (common to this day and vice versa). Then apparently just jumped into bed, opps got preggers and then no one knew anything until Jill wonders how the hell Bonnie's kids look to be in their late teens to early 20s? That didn't make sense. Plus, something that drives me crazy about TV shows is when they have a foreign language teacher who constantly has to get people to speak: Spanish, French or German and do it their entire appearance. Maybe after asking Jill to say things in "Espanol" the first time. But who the hell was she telling to run in Spanish and both Tim and Jack overloaded the speaker and had it caught on fire? Plus, what the hell did the two of them do to make it over load like that? We know Jack started the problem and Tim just made it worst. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 5, 2018 Share July 5, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, readster said: Exactly, nothing felt out of the blue it felt natural. Even with the parts played for laughs including the one daughter's over an hour tantrum (not losing her voice in the process), but I know people wrote letters to the show saying: "I had that happen the other day, thanks for showing I'm not alone." Same goes with Jeff, they had it where his business ideas were failing and he moves back in with his own mother. I loved that it was Lucille who finally got Jeff going on another idea, but one she could actually do. Having both Tim and Marty going: "Oh not again and with mom's money?" Even with Marty having problems, he knew Jeff and being the oldest of the brothers, that had to be hard to watch constantly. What parent couldn't relate to having a kid throwing tantrums? And sometimes all you can do is to wait it out. No matter how much it hurts your ears. I do like when they had stuff like that. Realistic parenting moments. I love how Tim taught him how to handle it. With a cookie and then building something out of Legos. His help and support was really good. I love Jill walking in and immediately remembering those days and joining Tim and Marty in their building project. Single and divorced parents can relate too. You're now the only one in charge. You have to take care of everything yourself. Its all on you. Quote Plus, when Jill said she did it more to "get away from you" it doesn't make sense. I know they were trying to do a twist on things that Jill just wanted to get Tim away (like when she squirted oil under the old hot rod when she was working on a project). However, at that point, the basement was pretty much a void, they didn't have a lot of storage issues, they never talked about heating in the garage or basement until Randy's room was built 3 years later. It just made Jill come across as really unreasonable. I was on Tim's side all the time and WIlson comes off looking like his advice is completely backwards. I just realized Wilson was wrong in his advice. That doesn't happen too often but to be fair given how Jill acted you'd think that's what she wanted. Because why else would she set up out in the garage? But then she says it was to get away from Tim. I mean what? A twist would be fine but not one that makes no sense. Why would you move into the one place you know your spouse is always going to be if you want to get away from him? She comes of unreasonable and kind of a jerk. She puts her pottery wheel, opera music and potpourri in the garage, gets annoyed by the smell, and then gets mad at Tim because he's unhappy with the situation. Then to get back at him decides she's going to make a schedule for the garage giving herself all the times except when Tim is asleep or at work. She does all this while knowing what she really wants its a space away from him! If he had done that to Jill he would have been a jerk and rightly so. Quote I was just watching Jill's high school reunion episode. Something that just bothered me was how Bonnie getting pregnant with Jack's kid and them getting married was so secret. Now, granted they put it down that Bonnie was just 3 months pregnant when they graduated. Not like talk wouldn't have traveled, but they acted like Bonnie had no other friends and it seemed that both Jack and Bonnie had a shot gun wedding and then had their daughter Katie just 4 years later after they figured out money and parenting. So, really, Jill and Bonnie had no other friends who talked to Jill or her family to realize that Bonnie got knocked up. I got Bonnie didn't know how to tell Jill and she even said the crossing guard told her what had happened with Jack dumping Jill for Bonnie. However, it seemed more like this was a case of a boyfriend falling for his girlfriend's best friend (common to this day and vice versa). Then apparently just jumped into bed, opps got preggers and then no one knew anything until Jill wonders how the hell Bonnie's kids look to be in their late teens to early 20s? That didn't make sense. Plus, something that drives me crazy about TV shows is when they have a foreign language teacher who constantly has to get people to speak: Spanish, French or German and do it their entire appearance. Maybe after asking Jill to say things in "Espanol" the first time. But who the hell was she telling to run in Spanish and both Tim and Jack overloaded the speaker and had it caught on fire? Plus, what the hell did the two of them do to make it over load like that? We know Jack started the problem and Tim just made it worst. I do find it hard to believe that Jill didn't know too. Yes she was mad at Joanie (I think her name was Joanie) but they probably did have other friends. None of them told her that Joanie was pregnant? She never talked to anyone from school or their parents? Something like that usually does get around fast. People do talk about who gave birth six months after graduation and who got married. Did none of her friends attend Joanie's wedding? Or were still in her life and Jill's? I don't like best friend's falling for their friend's boyfriend (or girlfriend) that's a crappy thing to do although they were in high school. I would be curious if Jack and Joanie were really in love or if they just got married because she was pregnant. It sounded like an oops. I'm surprised they only waited four years to have a second child. Graduating high school, getting married, having a baby, going off to college, finishing college and have another baby? That seems like a lot and kind of surprising they remained together. Jack and Tim both messing up with the speaker? I guess Jill had a type. Edited July 5, 2018 by andromeda331 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 5, 2018 Share July 5, 2018 I really like how Tim helps Marty when he learns of the divorce and Marty's homeless. He really steps up and offers him a place to stay, figuring out the room situation and his helping try and cheer the girls up at breakfast. Brad and Mark's reactions were what they would be for teen boys if not a little selfish. But what teen wants to give up their room and end up sharing a different room with their brother? I love how quickly both cave when Marty's thanking them for giving up their rooms and everything. It just felt realistic its kind of hard to say anything when your uncle is thanking you. I'm not too thrilled with Jill's immediate reaction but I like that she dropped it and stepped up too with the girls. One part I kind wish ha been mentioned at some point probably Jill to Tim was how it felt to have Nancy no longer part of the family. Jill and Nancy got along well as with Tim it would be hard to lose that or realize that relationship is never going to be the same again. They probably never thought of it which I understand but it would have a nice touch. 1 Link to comment
readster July 5, 2018 Share July 5, 2018 6 hours ago, andromeda331 said: I really like how Tim helps Marty when he learns of the divorce and Marty's homeless. He really steps up and offers him a place to stay, figuring out the room situation and his helping try and cheer the girls up at breakfast. Brad and Mark's reactions were what they would be for teen boys if not a little selfish. But what teen wants to give up their room and end up sharing a different room with their brother? I love how quickly both cave when Marty's thanking them for giving up their rooms and everything. It just felt realistic its kind of hard to say anything when your uncle is thanking you. I'm not too thrilled with Jill's immediate reaction but I like that she dropped it and stepped up too with the girls. One part I kind wish ha been mentioned at some point probably Jill to Tim was how it felt to have Nancy no longer part of the family. Jill and Nancy got along well as with Tim it would be hard to lose that or realize that relationship is never going to be the same again. They probably never thought of it which I understand but it would have a nice touch. How true and also great nod to continuity of how Brad and Mark ended up in their own rooms earlier in the series. Now, here they are a senior in high school and an 8th grader thrown back together like the are 8 and 5 again. However, they understood even bringing up what Randy was going to do when he go back (which we saw in the Christmas episode). That was also nice as Randy really thought he just come back home and everything would be just how he left it. Instead he found out everyone moved on without him. Something that was true, but also basically both JTT and the TV series saying: "You left the show, we needed to move on in stories." I would have loved if they would have dealt with Nancy no longer being part of the family, because that is true. When people divorce or die, that person is no longer part of the family and it has a profound effect on people. Divorce more as you have to deal with the aftermath and you can't just pick a side, but that person is no longer around. Something my mother brought up on when you divorce, you divorce an entire family and while it didn't work out between two of you, doesn't mean it's not hard on everyone else. That was missed there. Same can be said after Jill's father died, I know we had the follow ups in both Lillian moving on by dating someone new and Jill's post hysterectomy. However, the funeral reunion with Jill's sisters, I'm sorry, I know they were suppose to live all close to Texas, but I would have enjoyed seeing their reaction to things post death of their father. Speaking of reoccurring story lines, the Christmas Lighting Contest, I would have hated to see Tim and Jill's lighting build, Tim and the retired Doctor went so far in those contests, but here is something that bothered me. How was the doctor doing so well to win almost every single year. I mean, Tim created some really impressive things with his lighting display. People these days go so over board, but really, what the hell was he doing for the town to almost award it to him every year? The only times he lost was when the boys did the display to where it was so bright it helped to land Tim and Al's plane. The other was when Wilson was the main judge and Tim was electrocuted. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 5, 2018 Share July 5, 2018 8 hours ago, readster said: How true and also great nod to continuity of how Brad and Mark ended up in their own rooms earlier in the series. Now, here they are a senior in high school and an 8th grader thrown back together like the are 8 and 5 again. However, they understood even bringing up what Randy was going to do when he go back (which we saw in the Christmas episode). That was also nice as Randy really thought he just come back home and everything would be just how he left it. Instead he found out everyone moved on without him. Something that was true, but also basically both JTT and the TV series saying: "You left the show, we needed to move on in stories." That's kind of funny. The two who both had their own rooms at one point while the two had to share ended up sharing a room. As much as I didn't like seeing Randy leave it was interesting Brad and Mark interacting without Randy. Brad and Randy were always closer because they were closer in age and teaming up to prank Mark. But Brad and Mark got along and it was nice to see. Who hasn't been in Randy's position whether its going off to college or moving out going back home expecting to find everything the same but it never is. Life keeps going. Its not easy. JTT probably thought the same thing but it doesn't work either. Like the saying goes 'the show must go on' they had to continue with the series and come up with new episodes. Plus, with his character gone the show had to change. It always does when an actor or actress leaves the show that's one of the main character. Quote I would have loved if they would have dealt with Nancy no longer being part of the family, because that is true. When people divorce or die, that person is no longer part of the family and it has a profound effect on people. Divorce more as you have to deal with the aftermath and you can't just pick a side, but that person is no longer around. Something my mother brought up on when you divorce, you divorce an entire family and while it didn't work out between two of you, doesn't mean it's not hard on everyone else. That was missed there. Same can be said after Jill's father died, I know we had the follow ups in both Lillian moving on by dating someone new and Jill's post hysterectomy. However, the funeral reunion with Jill's sisters, I'm sorry, I know they were suppose to live all close to Texas, but I would have enjoyed seeing their reaction to things post death of their father. I would have loved if they had done that too. Its not easy to lose a family member. Jill and Nancy got along so well and it was probably nice for Jill to have a sister-in-law in sea of brothers-in-laws plus one who had kids. Even among her sisters she seemed to be the only one with kids so it was probably really nice to be able to talk to Nancy about stuff like that. They had a lot they could talk about. It couldn't be easy to suddenly realize your probably not going to see her again and when you do its not going to be the same. It'll probably be graduations or some school event for the twins. I wish they had done more follow ups after Jill's dad died. More of Lillian she was dating someone knew and her sisters. How much did it change things? I remember when my grandmother died nothing really was the same again. Before the family always came together once or twice a year but it was great. Cousins spending time together, my dad and siblings all together and our grandparents. Afterwards we didn't visit much anymore and kind of lost touch. My grandfather got Alzheimers not long afterwards and had to move into assisted living. The last maybe five years we've been working hard to try and keep in touch more. Call each other more, they've come out to visit (due to medical reasons I'm housebound I can't go anywhere) and email. That's one good thing about email, Facebook, and stuff its made it a lot easier to keep in touch relatives who live further away. The thing about Texas. Were they all suppose to live in Texas? I know that's where Jill's parents were and she made references to living in Texas but I was never sure if we were suppose to assume her sisters lived in Texas too. Robin at some point lived near Jill with her husband he came to the poker night and Robin and Jill were going to do hang out. But I don't think we ever saw her later when she wasn't visiting. Maybe they forgot to mention they moved. Carrie traveled all over the place for her job. Maybe the other two lived in Texas (or maybe those were the two that disappeared in series! ) Another weird one is Tim tells Brad in the episode Brad wants to skiing with his friends that his family lives in Colorado (he does mention Jill's lives in Texas) but who would that be? I didn't think Lucille lived in Colorado. I assumed she lived somewhere in Michigan. Maybe that was Marty before he and Nancy moved to town? Where some of his brothers lived? Quote Speaking of reoccurring story lines, the Christmas Lighting Contest, I would have hated to see Tim and Jill's lighting build, Tim and the retired Doctor went so far in those contests, but here is something that bothered me. How was the doctor doing so well to win almost every single year. I mean, Tim created some really impressive things with his lighting display. People these days go so over board, but really, what the hell was he doing for the town to almost award it to him every year? The only times he lost was when the boys did the display to where it was so bright it helped to land Tim and Al's plane. The other was when Wilson was the main judge and Tim was electrocuted. Yeah, I love how they never mentioned the utility bill that had to be huge! I don't know how the doctor won ever year. We never got to see his lights and Tim really did some cool stuff. I find it hard to believe he hadn't one a few times. He really came up with some really cool ideas. I do think of Tim ever year when they show that contest on the Great Christmas Light Fights. He'd love to be a part of something like that. I could see him coming up with a lot of ideas like that. Link to comment
readster July 5, 2018 Share July 5, 2018 Quote I wish they had done more follow ups after Jill's dad died. More of Lillian she was dating someone knew and her sisters. How much did it change things? I remember when my grandmother died nothing really was the same again. Before the family always came together once or twice a year but it was great. Cousins spending time together, my dad and siblings all together and our grandparents. Afterwards we didn't visit much anymore and kind of lost touch. My grandfather got Alzheimers not long afterwards and had to move into assisted living. The last maybe five years we've been working hard to try and keep in touch more. Call each other more, they've come out to visit (due to medical reasons I'm housebound I can't go anywhere) and email. That's one good thing about email, Facebook, and stuff its made it a lot easier to keep in touch relatives who live further away. Same when both sets of my grand parents died, all of a sudden it was: "Well, we have our own family to worry about now." Now, they talk about seeing us, but never call any of us and that has pissed off my wife and now her family is starting to do it, which my mother warned her about. Sad how that happens and then everyone wants to do their "own tradition" but that means burning bridges in the process. Quote The two who both had their own rooms at one point while the two had to share ended up sharing a room. As much as I didn't like seeing Randy leave it was interesting Brad and Mark interacting without Randy. Brad and Randy were always closer because they were closer in age and teaming up to prank Mark. But Brad and Mark got along and it was nice to see. Who hasn't been in Randy's position whether its going off to college or moving out going back home expecting to find everything the same but it never is. Life keeps going. Its not easy. JTT probably thought the same thing but it doesn't work either. Like the saying goes 'the show must go on' they had to continue with the series and come up with new episodes. Plus, with his character gone the show had to change. It always does when an actor or actress leaves the show that's one of the main character. Yeah, something that was funny too was they stopped picking on Mark as they got older. So, when it was just Brad and Mark, the relationship was majorly different and actually very refreshing. I think of the show would have gone on another season and Zach was planning on leaving the show too, would have been interesting to see how Mark dealt with the only kid at home, going to high school, not able to drive yet and how that changed things. They could have even explained that Randy finished early during the summer and then explained them gone. However, at that point, I do wonder how the show would have functioned. Al and Trudy getting married was thought up after Tim Allen said he wouldn't do another season no matter how much money was thrown his way. I know Pat Richardson wanted Jill's college days to be over as she felt she should have been done and it worked for the wrap up of the series. Would have been funny seeing Dr. Jill Taylor, bumbling shrink. On those notes, I still hate how things ended with Bineford, Morgan was a horrible character and at the end when he knew he get fired by the Board of Directors for Tim, Al and Heidi quitting, I still just went back to Bud. All that work on his character, Charles Robertson between 3 shows and Disney kept welcoming him back and he just got up and left Morgan in charge and Bineford in general. Who the hell was holding the company's stock and who was on the Board? Made no sense. Which even goes back to Bineford's Environmental problems from season 6. Interesting how that just got all swept under the rug. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 6, 2018 Share July 6, 2018 9 hours ago, readster said: Same when both sets of my grand parents died, all of a sudden it was: "Well, we have our own family to worry about now." Now, they talk about seeing us, but never call any of us and that has pissed off my wife and now her family is starting to do it, which my mother warned her about. Sad how that happens and then everyone wants to do their "own tradition" but that means burning bridges in the process. Some just end up having zero interest in anything except their own families. It is sad and it really sucks. You really miss seeing everyone together. It does hurt to have relatives who have zero interest in spending time with you anymore. I remember my mom say in the years before my grandmother passed away the same happened to her and her dad's side of the family. After he passed away everything just stopped fewer and fewer visits until none. Quote Yeah, something that was funny too was they stopped picking on Mark as they got older. So, when it was just Brad and Mark, the relationship was majorly different and actually very refreshing. I think of the show would have gone on another season and Zach was planning on leaving the show too, would have been interesting to see how Mark dealt with the only kid at home, going to high school, not able to drive yet and how that changed things. They could have even explained that Randy finished early during the summer and then explained them gone. However, at that point, I do wonder how the show would have functioned. Al and Trudy getting married was thought up after Tim Allen said he wouldn't do another season no matter how much money was thrown his way. I know Pat Richardson wanted Jill's college days to be over as she felt she should have been done and it worked for the wrap up of the series. Would have been funny seeing Dr. Jill Taylor, bumbling shrink. I do wonder what they would have done if the show continued. I didn't realize Zach wanted to leave the show I assumed he would end up going to college nearby or injured his knee at UCLA and come home. I can't imagine the show having him so far away unable to make visits home. I agree they probably would have just graduated Randy early and he'd be the one to go away to college. It would have been interesting to see Mark being an only child and Tim and Jill adjusting to two kids in college and only one at home. It probably would have changed things too much having two kids in college who probably aren't going to be seen. Jill starting out finally as a doctor and how well that went. Al and Trudy married would have been fun. Maybe starting a family. Al becoming a dad to another "Al" whether it was Alma, Alison, Hal or Mal. Quote On those notes, I still hate how things ended with Bineford, Morgan was a horrible character and at the end when he knew he get fired by the Board of Directors for Tim, Al and Heidi quitting, I still just went back to Bud. All that work on his character, Charles Robertson between 3 shows and Disney kept welcoming him back and he just got up and left Morgan in charge and Bineford in general. Who the hell was holding the company's stock and who was on the Board? Made no sense. Which even goes back to Bineford's Environmental problems from season 6. Interesting how that just got all swept under the rug. So do I. It all started with Bud who despite their claims that he was successful didn't really seem like it. He didn't really have any good ideas when it came to Tool Time. I thought he might soften later but he never did. I really don't know why he disliked Al so much. Morgan was complete moron. Who left him in charge? Who let him be in charge? Trying to turn the show into Jerry Springer? What for? Was that really what the Board wanted and thought it was a good idea. It made no sense. I always hoped the show would end up going national. It always seemed like a fun show. I imagine a lot of people tuned it because of the constant accidents. What a depressing end? Tim, Al and Heidi quitting. Morgan trying to get Tim to come back and trying to guilt Jill into getting Tim to come back. I did like Al ending up the host. But I'd rather see the show continue with the same team. Link to comment
readster July 6, 2018 Share July 6, 2018 6 hours ago, andromeda331 said: So do I. It all started with Bud who despite their claims that he was successful didn't really seem like it. He didn't really have any good ideas when it came to Tool Time. I thought he might soften later but he never did. I really don't know why he disliked Al so much. Morgan was complete moron. Who left him in charge? Who let him be in charge? Trying to turn the show into Jerry Springer? What for? Was that really what the Board wanted and thought it was a good idea. It made no sense. I always hoped the show would end up going national. It always seemed like a fun show. I imagine a lot of people tuned it because of the constant accidents. What a depressing end? Tim, Al and Heidi quitting. Morgan trying to get Tim to come back and trying to guilt Jill into getting Tim to come back. I did like Al ending up the host. But I'd rather see the show continue with the same team. It reminded me of what happened when they put Arlene Bineford in the second season. Talk about such a horrible character, I mean they wanted to show that John Bineford was a family man, but still a business man. He was a leader, but he didn't mind running off and getting married to someone who was the same age as his youngest daughter (establishing that he had 3 daughters and why he looked at Tim as a son). John seemed to be old fashion, so when Bud came into the show I think they wanted someone who wasn't for Al for once. Even Richard Karn stated after season 2, he thought Al was "too perfect" and liked the conflict they had with him, but felt in the last 2 seasons, he became a "momma's boy" to the extreme. Plus him and Tim got to the point I'm surprise Al didn't deck Tim and vice versa. Their relationship got really bad until the last half of the final season. However, with that said, Bud was a boss. He wasn't a leader, he had money, felt he had worked himself into a position of awesomeness, but then forgot about where he came from like a lot of people do. Even his talk about how he did night classes and working full time to get where he was along with apparently raising 2 boys of his own. Yet, his wife, who had the brother stealing from the company acted like Bud was just a jealous cry baby and then they wrote him into being an idiot. Plus, when Morgan was put in charge, that doesn't work that way. They established that while Bineford had a main owner or president. The Bineford family sold the company to Bud. It wasn't like the previous president was sole owner, he was just in charge. When Bud took over he became the CEO with a board. I also saw the entire environmental problems inherited from John and Bud just kind of let it slide. Pretty much a generational thing. Things we didn't know that would cost us in the long run and then making the changes or just pretending they weren't happening and hope no one would notice until they had excuse to cut positions or sections into mergers. Morgan being put in charge, especially with his Jerry Springer idea, just rang so false. He came in as an asshole, who apparently had pictures on everyone. Then you add in so many shows were trying to copy Jerry Springer after the VHS stuff came out. People were tuning out going: "Seen it, stop trying to be a copy cat." Plus, if you look at the audience on Tool Time they were rolling their eyes on how bad it was. Plus, Morgan revealing he paid people to fight and it was all an act. Bud apparently left the previous day. So, to just walk off without anyone knowing until Morgan said the only person above him now was "God" just rang false and I know the writers themselves said they couldn't find a real excuse for Bud to leave, but the show was ending,so they just basically said: "Remember, he started an asshole, why not leave like that too?" Quote I do wonder what they would have done if the show continued. I didn't realize Zach wanted to leave the show I assumed he would end up going to college nearby or injured his knee at UCLA and come home. I can't imagine the show having him so far away unable to make visits home. I agree they probably would have just graduated Randy early and he'd be the one to go away to college. It would have been interesting to see Mark being an only child and Tim and Jill adjusting to two kids in college and only one at home. It probably would have changed things too much having two kids in college who probably aren't going to be seen. Jill starting out finally as a doctor and how well that went. Al and Trudy married would have been fun. Maybe starting a family. Al becoming a dad to another "Al" whether it was Alma, Alison, Hal or Mal. It would have been interesting, plus you really would wondering if they would have brought Trudy in full time, because Al was always meant to get married at the end of the season, they just made it bigger because they knew it was the final episode. They might have brought in Mark and a regular girlfriend or had Kenny return transformed into less of a goth gangbanger, similar to what Boys Meets World did with the main bully. Making him a reform Zen master (that was perfectly timed). Plus, maybe having Jill have friends again, which when Amy, their neighbor left. They just had her classmate. Jill really had no friends, Tim had plenty or were referred to many times. Jill had crap. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 7, 2018 Share July 7, 2018 11 hours ago, readster said: It reminded me of what happened when they put Arlene Bineford in the second season. Talk about such a horrible character, I mean they wanted to show that John Bineford was a family man, but still a business man. He was a leader, but he didn't mind running off and getting married to someone who was the same age as his youngest daughter (establishing that he had 3 daughters and why he looked at Tim as a son). John seemed to be old fashion, so when Bud came into the show I think they wanted someone who wasn't for Al for once. Even Richard Karn stated after season 2, he thought Al was "too perfect" and liked the conflict they had with him, but felt in the last 2 seasons, he became a "momma's boy" to the extreme. Plus him and Tim got to the point I'm surprise Al didn't deck Tim and vice versa. Their relationship got really bad until the last half of the final season. However, with that said, Bud was a boss. He wasn't a leader, he had money, felt he had worked himself into a position of awesomeness, but then forgot about where he came from like a lot of people do. Even his talk about how he did night classes and working full time to get where he was along with apparently raising 2 boys of his own. Yet, his wife, who had the brother stealing from the company acted like Bud was just a jealous cry baby and then they wrote him into being an idiot. Plus, when Morgan was put in charge, that doesn't work that way. They established that while Bineford had a main owner or president. The Bineford family sold the company to Bud. It wasn't like the previous president was sole owner, he was just in charge. When Bud took over he became the CEO with a board. I also saw the entire environmental problems inherited from John and Bud just kind of let it slide. Pretty much a generational thing. Things we didn't know that would cost us in the long run and then making the changes or just pretending they weren't happening and hope no one would notice until they had excuse to cut positions or sections into mergers. Putting his daughter in charge was a bad idea. He clearly didn't put any thought in it. She was an idiot. I liked John Binford even thought he was old fashion. I liked hearing how much Tim looked up to him and helped Tim out. Bud started out like all business executive different from John. He did polls and stuff which definitely what businesses do. I didn't mind his dislike of Al at first but it did get old. So did Tim doing whatever Bud asked. I don't know if he did because he was worried about his job or what they were never really clear on that. With Binford's daughter Tim never did that he didn't always do that with John. Like the camping episode Tim turned him down until John guilted him about him being the son he never had which while he was manipulating Tim I also think he really did see Tim that way. Tim really looked up to him too. I really thought Bud would loosen up after time. He started as tough boss because he gotten so used to being behind a desk and watching numbers and to show he was different from John. But he never ready did. He's a sore loser to bowl with. What was with his wife? She thinks her husband sent her brother halfway across the world because of game? She doesn't know he embezzled? She really thinks her husband is that petty? If so why is she still with him? I didn't mind him not like Al it did annoy me that everyone loved Al. I liked Al a lot and really liked when he started to do more. Inventing the board game. That was a great idea and a lot of fun. Getting a girlfriend. But the Mama's boy part was really annoying. Unable to decide to between spending New Years with his mother or Ilene? Expecting Ilene to be understanding and getting mad at Ilene? It was ridiculous. Quote Morgan being put in charge, especially with his Jerry Springer idea, just rang so false. He came in as an asshole, who apparently had pictures on everyone. Then you add in so many shows were trying to copy Jerry Springer after the VHS stuff came out. People were tuning out going: "Seen it, stop trying to be a copy cat." Plus, if you look at the audience on Tool Time they were rolling their eyes on how bad it was. Plus, Morgan revealing he paid people to fight and it was all an act. Bud apparently left the previous day. So, to just walk off without anyone knowing until Morgan said the only person above him now was "God" just rang false and I know the writers themselves said they couldn't find a real excuse for Bud to leave, but the show was ending,so they just basically said: "Remember, he started an asshole, why not leave like that too?" Morgan must have some amazing picture I can't imagine anyone putting him in charge of anything. Tool Time wasn't a talk show. I doubt "God" was the only one above him. Even him still has responsibility to the board. Who is going to want to watch people fighting on a Tool Show? Plus if it got out that he paid people to fight, then fans would think everything's staged and fake and there goes the show. Quote It would have been interesting, plus you really would wondering if they would have brought Trudy in full time, because Al was always meant to get married at the end of the season, they just made it bigger because they knew it was the final episode. They might have brought in Mark and a regular girlfriend or had Kenny return transformed into less of a goth gangbanger, similar to what Boys Meets World did with the main bully. Making him a reform Zen master (that was perfectly timed). Plus, maybe having Jill have friends again, which when Amy, their neighbor left. They just had her classmate. Jill really had no friends, Tim had plenty or were referred to many times. Jill had crap. It would have been nice to add a friend or two to Jill. They all disappeared until she had no one. Except IIene who we never saw again after the non-wedding. I'm still not sure why they built up Al and Ilene for so long only to end with them not getting married. It could have been interesting seeing Al and Trudy starting their married life together, Jill and Tim down to raising one son, maybe that prompts her to get in touch with old friends or make new ones. She no longer has a houseful of kids just one that doesn't take a lot of time. Maybe Tool Time goes national and/or Tim becomes executive. Mark gets a girlfriend or goes threw a couple. Makes new friends. Gets more into filming. Or maybe try another phase all together. Or a couple different ones either trying to figure out who he is or just having fun. We'd get to see Dr. Jill's clients. Maybe Judith and Wilson reconnect. Link to comment
readster July 7, 2018 Share July 7, 2018 9 hours ago, andromeda331 said: Putting his daughter in charge was a bad idea. He clearly didn't put any thought in it. She was an idiot. I liked John Binford even thought he was old fashion. I liked hearing how much Tim looked up to him and helped Tim out. Bud started out like all business executive different from John. He did polls and stuff which definitely what businesses do. I didn't mind his dislike of Al at first but it did get old. So did Tim doing whatever Bud asked. I don't know if he did because he was worried about his job or what they were never really clear on that. With Binford's daughter Tim never did that he didn't always do that with John. Like the camping episode Tim turned him down until John guilted him about him being the son he never had which while he was manipulating Tim I also think he really did see Tim that way. Tim really looked up to him too. I really thought Bud would loosen up after time. He started as tough boss because he gotten so used to being behind a desk and watching numbers and to show he was different from John. But he never ready did. He's a sore loser to bowl with. What was with his wife? She thinks her husband sent her brother halfway across the world because of game? She doesn't know he embezzled? She really thinks her husband is that petty? If so why is she still with him? I didn't mind him not like Al it did annoy me that everyone loved Al. I liked Al a lot and really liked when he started to do more. Inventing the board game. That was a great idea and a lot of fun. Getting a girlfriend. But the Mama's boy part was really annoying. Unable to decide to between spending New Years with his mother or Ilene? Expecting Ilene to be understanding and getting mad at Ilene? It was ridiculous. I also don't think it helped when Charles Robinson did Ink for a season on CBS and then did guest starts on a few other NBC shows during his 2nd season. Every time one of the shows failed it was: "Oh hey, remember Bud, what did he do last episode? Oh his wife was clueless and the actress is on another show. Let's have them split up, she was a ditz anyhow." Or: "Hey, the environment is a big thing, let's have it to where Bud being a modern business man ignore problems he most likely inherited from John Binford." Then let's never revisit those things again. The bowling episode with Bud was really the end of: "Bud hates everything" because I think the actors were tired of Tim bending over backwards for everyone. Even with John Binford guilting tim into things. Jill knew Tim's relationship and in the death episode, Jill had a lot of good things to say about John. That never happened with Bud. Plus, I hated Bud after he screwed up Tim and Jill's romantic weekend at the hotel. Then the business contact guy saying that all they had to do was tell him there were plans and he would of rescheduled. Bud acted like the guy was there that day and that day only and they would lose out on the network deal. I remember back then going: "What, does he live in Europe and is just passing by Chicago? I'm surprised that Jill didn't kick Bud between the legs at that point. Quote Morgan must have some amazing picture I can't imagine anyone putting him in charge of anything. Tool Time wasn't a talk show. I doubt "God" was the only one above him. Even him still has responsibility to the board. Who is going to want to watch people fighting on a Tool Show? Plus if it got out that he paid people to fight, then fans would think everything's staged and fake and there goes the show. Morgan just didn't make any sense, I'll hand it to the writers for introducing in a few episode to show how much of an ass he was. However, what did Bud hire him under? He had no understanding of the show, Binford Tools, or anything. He was: "Make money by copying others." Sure that can work in some regards, but his ideas were just plain bad. Even him saying once he got bored with the Jerry Springer staging, he said he go to back to "tool stuff", which is why Tim finally had it. I mean, Tool Time got people like Penn & Teller to 3 NASA astronaut teams who admitted watch the show. So, yeah, Jerry Springer staging in 1999 was the way to go? The hell? Quote It would have been nice to add a friend or two to Jill. They all disappeared until she had no one. Except IIene who we never saw again after the non-wedding. I'm still not sure why they built up Al and Ilene for so long only to end with them not getting married. It could have been interesting seeing Al and Trudy starting their married life together, Jill and Tim down to raising one son, maybe that prompts her to get in touch with old friends or make new ones. She no longer has a houseful of kids just one that doesn't take a lot of time. Maybe Tool Time goes national and/or Tim becomes executive. Mark gets a girlfriend or goes threw a couple. Makes new friends. Gets more into filming. Or maybe try another phase all together. Or a couple different ones either trying to figure out who he is or just having fun. We'd get to see Dr. Jill's clients. Maybe Judith and Wilson reconnect. Yeah, I felt Wilson and Judith's relationship was just swept under the rug and forgotten. It wasn't like the actress went to another show, the writers just didn't know how to write dating Wilson. I liked how they found Mark's grove with movie making, majorly better than his goth phase. Because, while it wasn't too bad at first it kind of tapered off and even Mark got bored with it. However, when Heather drumped him, he was; "Time to shave my head and go back to full chains again." Even Noah said towards the end, he thought it was too much and wasn't a fan of "mono tone" Ronnie. Thinking it got old after the 3rd episode. As for Jill's lack of friends, yeah I just wonder it was so hard giving her friends, but writing her as being bitchy all the time in the last couple of seasons. It was just like Jill's bad cooking. They aired Lauren's first appearance last night in my area and when Jill felt so bad about her cooking being rejected and the PILES of cook books. Followed 5 episodes later that Jill got her cooking skills from her dad. I just wanted to go: "Really, why couldn't you just look over them before." She knew everyone hated her cooking, but never tried to fix it. Kind of like her piano playing. She went on and on for an entire episode about her love of this piano. Then she gets it and she can't play chop sticks. Then gets that really over the top piano teacher an episode later. Who even if you are at war, doesn't give you an excuse for not practicing your piano. Then Jill went on how busy she was and I wanted to go: "Then why do one more thing you know you won't have time for?" Plus, the boys shoved their underwear in the piano? What? Why not shirts, towels or socks. I mean, all their underwear? What did they 3 drawers of it? That be something teenage boys would miss. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 8, 2018 Share July 8, 2018 12 hours ago, readster said: I also don't think it helped when Charles Robinson did Ink for a season on CBS and then did guest starts on a few other NBC shows during his 2nd season. Every time one of the shows failed it was: "Oh hey, remember Bud, what did he do last episode? Oh his wife was clueless and the actress is on another show. Let's have them split up, she was a ditz anyhow." Or: "Hey, the environment is a big thing, let's have it to where Bud being a modern business man ignore problems he most likely inherited from John Binford." Then let's never revisit those things again. The bowling episode with Bud was really the end of: "Bud hates everything" because I think the actors were tired of Tim bending over backwards for everyone. Even with John Binford guilting tim into things. Jill knew Tim's relationship and in the death episode, Jill had a lot of good things to say about John. That never happened with Bud. Plus, I hated Bud after he screwed up Tim and Jill's romantic weekend at the hotel. Then the business contact guy saying that all they had to do was tell him there were plans and he would of rescheduled. Bud acted like the guy was there that day and that day only and they would lose out on the network deal. I remember back then going: "What, does he live in Europe and is just passing by Chicago? I'm surprised that Jill didn't kick Bud between the legs at that point. No that didn't help. It doesn't help when you never know when the actor is going to be free. Maybe they planned differently but he wasn't available. That would be hard. It didn't help that they kept doing stuff and then dropping it like with the environmental problems. They could have followed up with showing how they were changing things and maybe even do a tool time show on how be more environmentally better in different fields or in construction. Most of Tool Time's entire businesses is wood so how would they go about trying to be better when that's what they use to build stuff with? They never really got far on expanding Tool Time or anything with Bud either. There really wasn't anything good with the Bud episodes. He mostly acted like a jerk, Tim caved and did whatever he wanted. That meeting in Chicago, yes it could have been reschedule. Unless he lived in Europe they could have flown another day to where ever the man lived and had the meeting then. He's a businessman things get reschedule all the time. Quote Morgan just didn't make any sense, I'll hand it to the writers for introducing in a few episode to show how much of an ass he was. However, what did Bud hire him under? He had no understanding of the show, Binford Tools, or anything. He was: "Make money by copying others." Sure that can work in some regards, but his ideas were just plain bad. Even him saying once he got bored with the Jerry Springer staging, he said he go to back to "tool stuff", which is why Tim finally had it. I mean, Tool Time got people like Penn & Teller to 3 NASA astronaut teams who admitted watch the show. So, yeah, Jerry Springer staging in 1999 was the way to go? The hell? That's a good point why was Morgan or even Bud doing all that stupid stuff? The ratings couldn't have be bad when they had astronauts, sports athletes and racecar drivers on? And Penn & Teller? They had to be amazingly high so what was the need for the Jerry Springer fight or making Al wear different clothes? They had the crew from Endeavor and Columbia on. They did shows for Habitat for Humanity with Jimmy Carter and John Elway. They filmed from the USS Constellation. Plus the favorites like K&B Construction. They had Bob Villa on a lot. How could ratings be down with that? Most of the fans thought the accidents were planned and hilarious. They should have had people wanting Tool Time to air in their cities. Quote Yeah, I felt Wilson and Judith's relationship was just swept under the rug and forgotten. It wasn't like the actress went to another show, the writers just didn't know how to write dating Wilson. I liked how they found Mark's grove with movie making, majorly better than his goth phase. Because, while it wasn't too bad at first it kind of tapered off and even Mark got bored with it. However, when Heather drumped him, he was; "Time to shave my head and go back to full chains again." Even Noah said towards the end, he thought it was too much and wasn't a fan of "mono tone" Ronnie. Thinking it got old after the 3rd episode. Maybe they didn't. If Wilson had a wife maybe they didn't think he'd be outside to give advice all the time or Jill would go to Judith more. I don't know. I think it would have been nice to see Wilson happy with Judith. Someone to do all the crazy things he liked with. They could have adjusted and made it work. I wish they had stuck with film for Mark, that was such a cool idea. He could have tried more horror movies or different genres. Quote As for Jill's lack of friends, yeah I just wonder it was so hard giving her friends, but writing her as being bitchy all the time in the last couple of seasons. It was just like Jill's bad cooking. They aired Lauren's first appearance last night in my area and when Jill felt so bad about her cooking being rejected and the PILES of cook books. Followed 5 episodes later that Jill got her cooking skills from her dad. I just wanted to go: "Really, why couldn't you just look over them before." She knew everyone hated her cooking, but never tried to fix it. Kind of like her piano playing. She went on and on for an entire episode about her love of this piano. Then she gets it and she can't play chop sticks. Then gets that really over the top piano teacher an episode later. Who even if you are at war, doesn't give you an excuse for not practicing your piano. Then Jill went on how busy she was and I wanted to go: "Then why do one more thing you know you won't have time for?" Plus, the boys shoved their underwear in the piano? What? Why not shirts, towels or socks. I mean, all their underwear? What did they 3 drawers of it? That be something teenage boys would miss. Jill really didn't bother to try. Watching the episode where she tries to make something good for psych department potluck. She doesn't even know what most of the words mean like dredged the chicken. She finally figures out to put chicken in a bag with flour but puts in tons of flour but somehow she manages to make it taste good. Randy was really surprised. I wonder if she wondered would have done better with YouTube videos that show you how to do almost anything. She watch a video of someone showing how to dredge the chicken in flour. I don't know in the episode with the Randy cancer scare she can make a really good breakfast. Link to comment
andromeda331 July 8, 2018 Share July 8, 2018 The last couple days I've watching Home Improvement reruns I've had a weird thought. Do you think is turning into Al's mother? She is so overprotective, can be embarrassing and ridiculous. They always make jokes about how Al's mother and him being a Mama's boy but the last day or two some of the jokes made me think if Jill. Wilson tries to reassure her when Lauren went to the concert with Jason about Randy hurting and she just keeps saying they weren't mothers or he's not a mother. In Family Un-ties Jill gets hurt that the boys don't want to do anything with her but then she's so hurt by that she has to go and talk to Tim while he's doing a show and gets mad when he won't listen to her problems because he's doing working. But as she goes on and on she really comes off well crazy because her three teen or almost teens sons don't want to spend time with her, Tim points out that in her psych books it probably healthy and normal but she doesn't care. Her reaction to Mark using his karate to save Randy or refusing to let him take flying lessons. Insisting on taking Randy to the store and get new clothes despite that he's old enough to go alone, jiggling his pants and embarrassing him in front of the girl he liked. Refusing to let Randy drive at night for a month because of Brad's accident, her crazy behavior waiting for Brad to call when he went out to celebrate. She even tried to answer Patty's phone. Link to comment
readster July 8, 2018 Share July 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said: The last couple days I've watching Home Improvement reruns I've had a weird thought. Do you think is turning into Al's mother? She is so overprotective, can be embarrassing and ridiculous. They always make jokes about how Al's mother and him being a Mama's boy but the last day or two some of the jokes made me think if Jill. Wilson tries to reassure her when Lauren went to the concert with Jason about Randy hurting and she just keeps saying they weren't mothers or he's not a mother. In Family Un-ties Jill gets hurt that the boys don't want to do anything with her but then she's so hurt by that she has to go and talk to Tim while he's doing a show and gets mad when he won't listen to her problems because he's doing working. But as she goes on and on she really comes off well crazy because her three teen or almost teens sons don't want to spend time with her, Tim points out that in her psych books it probably healthy and normal but she doesn't care. Her reaction to Mark using his karate to save Randy or refusing to let him take flying lessons. Insisting on taking Randy to the store and get new clothes despite that he's old enough to go alone, jiggling his pants and embarrassing him in front of the girl he liked. Refusing to let Randy drive at night for a month because of Brad's accident, her crazy behavior waiting for Brad to call when he went out to celebrate. She even tried to answer Patty's phone. I also remember how Jill over reacted with Willow not calling them. Now, granted, she was staying with them and she went out one night and then they didn't hear her for almost 24 hours. That would have worried me, but when she told Willow she was 24 and needed to "grow up". Willow should have immediately said: "I'm sorry, you're right, that was stupid." Her reply was: "You sound like my parents." I wanted to go: "Well, duh! They are parents and their oldest is only 6 years younger than you." Plus, it seemed that Wilson's siblings didn't have that great of a relationship with him. Willow was about it and more reasons why she decided to move to Michigan, because she had a relative willing to let her be herself. OF course, after that episode that was gone and sow as Willow. Of course, the actress got a deal on another TV show, so not like she didn't have an excuse. Speaking of Jill, I was just watching her sisters visiting and trying to plan their parents 50th and them constantly arguing. I felt sorry for Jill, but things that don't make sense in the episode. I don't know about you, but the constant complaining from the boys about Tim making various meats and even Wilson complaining he got tired of the smell. This is from a guy who cooks squirrel and flank steak was bothering him? At least I got the boys not taking Tim's snoring. Then of course just the next episode with Tim getting Car Man of the Year. I get that it was Wednesday and why Jill didn't want the boys there because of school. However, Tim had 35 tickets for everyone to come see it and the only people who wanted to come were: Jill, Heidi, Al, Wilson and the boys? I mean, Lucille didn't want to see her son? Harry said no? Benny could have gotten a free meal and a ride? Everyone telling Tim they didn't want to or rather watch TV? It just rang false just like Jill not noticing that constantly driving the car her gas gauge was not getting lower and why they ran out of gas? I mean, I get it's a Nomad, but she was constantly driving the car back and forth from school and Brad was the only one driving at that time. Really, no one didn't put two and two together and go: "Wait, why do I still have a full tank of gas?" Link to comment
andromeda331 July 9, 2018 Share July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 10:07 PM, readster said: I also remember how Jill over reacted with Willow not calling them. Now, granted, she was staying with them and she went out one night and then they didn't hear her for almost 24 hours. That would have worried me, but when she told Willow she was 24 and needed to "grow up". Willow should have immediately said: "I'm sorry, you're right, that was stupid." Her reply was: "You sound like my parents." I wanted to go: "Well, duh! They are parents and their oldest is only 6 years younger than you." Plus, it seemed that Wilson's siblings didn't have that great of a relationship with him. Willow was about it and more reasons why she decided to move to Michigan, because she had a relative willing to let her be herself. OF course, after that episode that was gone and sow as Willow. Of course, the actress got a deal on another TV show, so not like she didn't have an excuse. She really over reacted with Willow. I know Willow was staying with them and she should have called. 24 hours is a long time to go without letting them know where she is. Willow should have said she was sorry that she worried them. I do think Jill over reacted and her thinking Willow staying out late and not calling them is because she's never had strong parental influences. Really Jill? Its not because she's twenty-four? Do you think all people in their twenties coming and going, and going to clubs have that same problem. Do you really think Brad's not going to be like that in six years? Really all they needed was to talk about hours, rules, and to call. I really liked Willow and wished she stayed. I liked how well she and Wilson got along. She was a fun character. Quote Speaking of Jill, I was just watching her sisters visiting and trying to plan their parents 50th and them constantly arguing. I felt sorry for Jill, but things that don't make sense in the episode. I don't know about you, but the constant complaining from the boys about Tim making various meats and even Wilson complaining he got tired of the smell. This is from a guy who cooks squirrel and flank steak was bothering him? At least I got the boys not taking Tim's snoring. A lot really didn't. I'm surprised Wilson didn't join in on the meat fest. I loved Tim coming in the next morning and bringing a bunch of different meats. We never got to see the 50th anniversary party they were planning. Were they planning on having it in Detroit? Why not Texas since that was where their parents lived and probably most of their friends. The constant fighting was annoying. I also didn't like it coming out that Tracy slept with Linda's husband or that Jill and Tim knew about it. That's a big secret that comes out of nowhere but doesn't going anywhere and by the end of the episode everyone has forgotten about. That doesn't seem likely. I'm not even sure why it was even needed since they didn't do anything with it. Quote Then of course just the next episode with Tim getting Car Man of the Year. I get that it was Wednesday and why Jill didn't want the boys there because of school. However, Tim had 35 tickets for everyone to come see it and the only people who wanted to come were: Jill, Heidi, Al, Wilson and the boys? I mean, Lucille didn't want to see her son? Harry said no? Benny could have gotten a free meal and a ride? Everyone telling Tim they didn't want to or rather watch TV? It just rang false just like Jill not noticing that constantly driving the car her gas gauge was not getting lower and why they ran out of gas? I mean, I get it's a Nomad, but she was constantly driving the car back and forth from school and Brad was the only one driving at that time. Really, no one didn't put two and two together and go: "Wait, why do I still have a full tank of gas?" I agree it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure why the boys weren't allowed to go. Yes it was a school night which is a weird night to have an awards show people have to work. But Jill won't let them miss one day? Their dad's getting an award. Why didn't Lucille want to go? She would have gone. Marty would have gone too. Harry and yes Benny would go for the free meal. Why didn't anyone want to go? Their friend or relative was winning an award. There's no way Jill and Tim would have left without checking if they needed gas because they were driving to another city. Link to comment
readster July 9, 2018 Share July 9, 2018 Quote We never got to see the 50th anniversary party they were planning. Were they planning on having it in Detroit? Why not Texas since that was where their parents lived and probably most of their friends. The constant fighting was annoying. I also didn't like it coming out that Tracy slept with Linda's husband or that Jill and Tim knew about it. That's a big secret that comes out of nowhere but doesn't going anywhere and by the end of the episode everyone has forgotten about. That doesn't seem likely. I'm not even sure why it was even needed since they didn't do anything with it. No kidding, just like when we heard about Jill's other sister, Carol having a baby girl and when we see Carol the following year at the house in TEXAS, where is the kid? Oh wait, in the back stage comments. The writers said they had forgotten that was written, since it was different writers. Going back to that episode, that aired the other week, I just couldn't take that everyone really thought Jill was "still sick". Of course she looked pale, her father just died, but from the time line of Jill's dad dying, it was apparently a few days later. You don't think someone might recover from a cold by then? Or the fact that when Jill made up the lie, her dad wouldn't go: "Well, we will work some things out and come out next month or so." I got Jill's guilt, but it was so hammered in by everyone thinking that Jill was "sick", it go so old fast. I got everyone was in disarray from the death. However, it just got so old so fast. I didn't find it funny at all. Quote agree it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure why the boys weren't allowed to go. Yes it was a school night which is a weird night to have an awards show people have to work. But Jill won't let them miss one day? Their dad's getting an award. Why didn't Lucille want to go? She would have gone. Marty would have gone too. Harry and yes Benny would go for the free meal. Why didn't anyone want to go? Their friend or relative was winning an award. There's no way Jill and Tim would have left without checking if they needed gas because they were driving to another city. Yeah, that's making the plot work for the story. It was like Heidi going into labor, they never mentioned she was that far along. I mean, her husband was out of town for the TV station. You don't think he didn't go: "Wait, my wife is due any day, I shouldn't go out of town." Of course Heidi would by one of those mothers who's first baby is right away, unlike about 89% of women who take hours to get kid #1 delivered unless a C-section is needed. While I have read stories of women who go into labor and the husband and paramedics are delivering kid #2 or #3 a half an hour later. Fastest one on any side of mine or my wife's family or with our friends was just over an hour and that was kid #4. Of course not the first time and since HI was a sitcom, some things never made sense just to make a story work. Two biggest glaring ones was when Tim bought the rental property and create a lease that was the side of a book. Even saying: "Why does everyone have to be 'simple' I just feel everything needs to go to the extreme." I get the writers were basically saying after 8 years that Tim is just obsessed with power. However, that was too much and then having Al using it against Tim was too much and vice versa. I mean really, even in the last few seasons, Tim never made up nick names when he introduced Al on Tool Time, because even Tim Allen thought it got old after a while. The second was Al having flannel withdraw, when he had been shown several times, even when Maureen Binford took over as producer. She was having Al dress in Hawaiian shirts and kakee pants. We even saw Al in western clothes, regular tuxes, ect. Then all of a sudden Bud wants Al to dress to attract more Gen X viewers (considering that who was watching the show) and he loses it? Just like how towards the end of the series, Bud suddenly didn't want to feature any Binford Tools on the show just before he introduced Morgan. Yeah, the writers were trying to say: "See, we were planning on Bud running out back then." Instead it came off as: "Why, by sabotaging his own company? Where is that a good business model?" 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 10, 2018 Share July 10, 2018 16 hours ago, readster said: No kidding, just like when we heard about Jill's other sister, Carol having a baby girl and when we see Carol the following year at the house in TEXAS, where is the kid? Oh wait, in the back stage comments. The writers said they had forgotten that was written, since it was different writers. Going back to that episode, that aired the other week, I just couldn't take that everyone really thought Jill was "still sick". Of course she looked pale, her father just died, but from the time line of Jill's dad dying, it was apparently a few days later. You don't think someone might recover from a cold by then? Or the fact that when Jill made up the lie, her dad wouldn't go: "Well, we will work some things out and come out next month or so." I got Jill's guilt, but it was so hammered in by everyone thinking that Jill was "sick", it go so old fast. I got everyone was in disarray from the death. However, it just got so old so fast. I didn't find it funny at all. There was also a sister named Katie in the first couple seasons that disappeared with Carol and Carol's baby. I realize writers can't remember everything that would be impossible. But you'd think they'd write down important stuff like family members names. I think Tim also ended up with like seven brothers named but then they'd say there were only five. Marty, Jeff, Steve, John, Rick and Danny. I get Jill's guilt because it rarely makes any sense in a death and the idea that you could have seen them one last time and didn't is really hard to deal with. I don't know why she didn't suggest another time either. Lillian telling her what he would have said didn't make any sense either because he called out of the blue. What if they had plans or were busy? I don't know why her sisters didn't believe her if their father was that difficult wouldn't they have done something similar when he tried to visit and they were busy? Or like you said the cold was gone. It didn't seem like he died the very next day. But I did love Tim's stories about his father-in-law they all sounded just like the Colonel. Quote Yeah, that's making the plot work for the story. It was like Heidi going into labor, they never mentioned she was that far along. I mean, her husband was out of town for the TV station. You don't think he didn't go: "Wait, my wife is due any day, I shouldn't go out of town." Of course Heidi would by one of those mothers who's first baby is right away, unlike about 89% of women who take hours to get kid #1 delivered unless a C-section is needed. While I have read stories of women who go into labor and the husband and paramedics are delivering kid #2 or #3 a half an hour later. Fastest one on any side of mine or my wife's family or with our friends was just over an hour and that was kid #4. No, they never mentioned how far along she was. Not in the first episode of the season when Tim announced it on the show. I'm not sure why you'd go anywhere if you were due any day either. I guess it does depend on the pregnancy and what the doctor says but you never know. Quote Of course not the first time and since HI was a sitcom, some things never made sense just to make a story work. Two biggest glaring ones was when Tim bought the rental property and create a lease that was the side of a book. Even saying: "Why does everyone have to be 'simple' I just feel everything needs to go to the extreme." I get the writers were basically saying after 8 years that Tim is just obsessed with power. However, that was too much and then having Al using it against Tim was too much and vice versa. I mean really, even in the last few seasons, Tim never made up nick names when he introduced Al on Tool Time, because even Tim Allen thought it got old after a while. The second was Al having flannel withdraw, when he had been shown several times, even when Maureen Binford took over as producer. She was having Al dress in Hawaiian shirts and kakee pants. We even saw Al in western clothes, regular tuxes, ect. Then all of a sudden Bud wants Al to dress to attract more Gen X viewers (considering that who was watching the show) and he loses it? Just like how towards the end of the series, Bud suddenly didn't want to feature any Binford Tools on the show just before he introduced Morgan. Yeah, the writers were trying to say: "See, we were planning on Bud running out back then." Instead it came off as: "Why, by sabotaging his own company? Where is that a good business model?" The rental agreement was just ridiculous. It was how many pages and he knew Al. It wasn't like he was renting to someone he didn't know. I'm not against having one a simple one for legal reasons but at this point isn't Al like his best friend? If not really close to it. So why go through all that? Its funny you mention Maureen having Al dress in different clothes. Al really seemed to enjoy that and the theme shows. I don't know why he suddenly became all about wearing flannel. Plus we got that really great story as to why Al always wore flannel it was what his father put on him when Al helped his dad as a kid. I can see why he'd chose to wear that for his job. He seems like the type that would have a lot of Hawaiian shirts and wacky t-shirts. If Bud was trying to attract more younger viewers you'd think he'd focus on Heidi more. She's definitely bringing in the young guys. I'd think the accidents and the guest stars would bring in a lot of younger viewers. But mostly Tool Time is going to be a show that adults watch. 1 Link to comment
readster July 10, 2018 Share July 10, 2018 Quote There was also a sister named Katie in the first couple seasons that disappeared with Carol and Carol's baby. I realize writers can't remember everything that would be impossible. But you'd think they'd write down important stuff like family members names. I think Tim also ended up with like seven brothers named but then they'd say there were only five. Marty, Jeff, Steve, John, Rick and Danny. I get Jill's guilt because it rarely makes any sense in a death and the idea that you could have seen them one last time and didn't is really hard to deal with. I don't know why she didn't suggest another time either. Lillian telling her what he would have said didn't make any sense either because he called out of the blue. What if they had plans or were busy? I don't know why her sisters didn't believe her if their father was that difficult wouldn't they have done something similar when he tried to visit and they were busy? Or like you said the cold was gone. It didn't seem like he died the very next day. But I did love Tim's stories about his father-in-law they all sounded just like the Colonel. Yeah, even Nick at Nite made references to missing sisters even though they said there were a set amount, yet they named more. A lot of shows these days do have a set list of characters, but that doesn't mean things don't get forgotten or they choose plot over character/continuity to make a story work. That goes into Jill's father, it was an out of the blue phone call and he really thought that Jill would just cater to his usual ways, when they spent episodes telling him that they were older and that they had lives now that didn't revolve around him. Another thing was when Jill comes home before Tim tells her that he died. She talked about not only the day, but the last couple of days of having "me time". So, to show up and everyone think she was sick including: "You look like that and you are not sick, please." I wanted to go: "What does she look like? Looks like a person who just lost her father." Quote he rental agreement was just ridiculous. It was how many pages and he knew Al. It wasn't like he was renting to someone he didn't know. I'm not against having one a simple one for legal reasons but at this point isn't Al like his best friend? If not really close to it. So why go through all that? Its funny you mention Maureen having Al dress in different clothes. Al really seemed to enjoy that and the theme shows. I don't know why he suddenly became all about wearing flannel. Plus we got that really great story as to why Al always wore flannel it was what his father put on him when Al helped his dad as a kid. I can see why he'd chose to wear that for his job. He seems like the type that would have a lot of Hawaiian shirts and wacky t-shirts. If Bud was trying to attract more younger viewers you'd think he'd focus on Heidi more. She's definitely bringing in the young guys. I'd think the accidents and the guest stars would bring in a lot of younger viewers. But mostly Tool Time is going to be a show that adults watch. Like I said, plot over character and just having that Tim admits he loves to go over board and doesn't get why everyone has to be "safe" just rang false. Same with everyone saying Heidi tested the hightest out of everyone. I know in the last couple of episodes where Morgan had Heidi dress in a tight outfit and have pom poms and smoke like it was the opening to a boxing HBO or Wrestlemania event (once again, Morgan sees copying as the way to get more ratings and viewers). I'm surprise Heidi didn't go: "I know I look hot, but I'm not doing this just for a paycheck, I have some self dignity. I mean Heidi even told Brad towards the end of the last season: "Brad, get over it, I'm married and have a kid." That was another thing, I know they showed that all the boys were attracted to girls, but having it to where Brad was horny towards the Tool Girl and that both Randy and Mark were like: "Yeah whatever." Yet, they were attracted to blondes or brunettes themselves. I mean Randy even portended to be a doctor to a much older woman online. You really are trying to tell us only Brad would look at Heidi or Lisa and go: "Damn!" 1 Link to comment
readster July 11, 2018 Share July 11, 2018 (edited) The Tool Expo episode was on last night. So, two things that are a problem, the first is when Tim accidentally plugs in the wrong fan and messes up the insulation booth just across from him. When Tim goes to plug in what he think is the desk light fan and its one of the hall fans behind him. First of all, the cord is to the fan in front of him, not the one behind him. Plus, really, the person at the booth would leave all those fans switched to "on" and just unplug them? The angle is also wrong when it goes back to the fan blowing everything. The fan is then shown to be farther from Tim and to the right more so it blows directly on the insulation booth. If it would have been the other fan, like it was suppose to be. It would have hit the booth next to them. Later at the Bug Bomb booth when Tim accidentally knocks over the mosquito trying to chase hissy fit Jill (since the boys all ditched her). Tim wasn't standing close enough to know over the container an the top doesn't really break and yet the mosquitos all swarm no problem. Plus, why is everyone swatting when he has repellent and spray right there at the booth? Talk about false advertising. Brad is also shown to be more of a horn dog than ever. How he not only ditches Jill, but also Tim to see the hot tub models. I get Randy was with the other kid with the computer, but really no one had interest in going anywhere in Cleveland? Not like they went on a regular basis and all Mark did was go to the arcade on the trip. Where was he getting all the quarters? And no matter how you want to spin it, Jill eating all those fridge items, their bill had to be close to $400 and even if Binford was paying for the hotel. That was a horrible thing to do to the company and for someone who loved to complain about spending money on things (Jill a few episodes later would complain about the money Tim would spend "redoing" the hotrod for another year. She must have been pretty drunk to laugh at $18 nuts. Also, the photo of Wilson and the Beatles is one of the worst photoshop I have ever seen on TV and then Hall of Fame just let Jill walk out with it? Edited July 11, 2018 by readster 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 12, 2018 Share July 12, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 1:45 PM, readster said: Yeah, even Nick at Nite made references to missing sisters even though they said there were a set amount, yet they named more. A lot of shows these days do have a set list of characters, but that doesn't mean things don't get forgotten or they choose plot over character/continuity to make a story work. That goes into Jill's father, it was an out of the blue phone call and he really thought that Jill would just cater to his usual ways, when they spent episodes telling him that they were older and that they had lives now that didn't revolve around him. Another thing was when Jill comes home before Tim tells her that he died. She talked about not only the day, but the last couple of days of having "me time". So, to show up and everyone think she was sick including: "You look like that and you are not sick, please." I wanted to go: "What does she look like? Looks like a person who just lost her father." That's a good point! She just lost her father what were they expecting her to look like? The comments about her looking pale. Ah, most people look pale after the death of a love one. They played the episode yesterday and parts of it I really liked. I liked Randy making jokes and then admitting he doesn't know why he's making jokes. They each handled the death differently but kind of how you'd expect. Randy makes jokes, Brad's worried about seeing his grandfather in the casket or that had he come he would have died in his bed. Tim stepping up to get the airline tickets and everything makes sense since he's been through it all before. I don't like that Jill couldn't just tell her father that now wasn't a good time. You point out that was what he wanted to stop in his last episode. It would have been nice to see that progress had been made. She could tell him now wasn't a good time because she just got done with finales. We could have seen even for a year or so since the Christmas episode that they had been able to tell him things. That is the episode where its mentioned all Jill's sisters live in Texas which still seems weird to me. Carrie seems like she would just go place to place, The few times we see the others visit it never sounds like they came from Texas. Mostly they never talk about how their parents or each other are doing and Jill never asks. It just seems weird to me. When ever a cousin of mine calls or comes to town for a visit I always ask how the rest of the family is doing, their sister or brother that lives in the same state as them and they always do the same. When Lillian and/or the Colonel visited they never mentioning have just seen Carrie for dinner or Linda and Tracy. Quote Like I said, plot over character and just having that Tim admits he loves to go over board and doesn't get why everyone has to be "safe" just rang false. Same with everyone saying Heidi tested the hightest out of everyone. I know in the last couple of episodes where Morgan had Heidi dress in a tight outfit and have pom poms and smoke like it was the opening to a boxing HBO or Wrestlemania event (once again, Morgan sees copying as the way to get more ratings and viewers). I'm surprise Heidi didn't go: "I know I look hot, but I'm not doing this just for a paycheck, I have some self dignity. I mean Heidi even told Brad towards the end of the last season: "Brad, get over it, I'm married and have a kid." That was another thing, I know they showed that all the boys were attracted to girls, but having it to where Brad was horny towards the Tool Girl and that both Randy and Mark were like: "Yeah whatever." Yet, they were attracted to blondes or brunettes themselves. I mean Randy even portended to be a doctor to a much older woman online. You really are trying to tell us only Brad would look at Heidi or Lisa and go: "Damn!" I'm surprise Heidi didn't do that either. I kept expecting her to quit. Really what was Morgan going to do if Heidi really tested hirer then Tim and Al. So there goes your ratings? I hated Heidi telling Brad that. Yeah, he's a horny teenage boy, but she's married with a kid and he knows that. There's fantasy and there's hitting on a married woman who is way too old for you. The episode where Lisa comes back Brad practically needs to be shoved into cold shower at the idea of two Tool Girls. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 12, 2018 Share July 12, 2018 17 hours ago, readster said: The Tool Expo episode was on last night. So, two things that are a problem, the first is when Tim accidentally plugs in the wrong fan and messes up the insulation booth just across from him. When Tim goes to plug in what he think is the desk light fan and its one of the hall fans behind him. First of all, the cord is to the fan in front of him, not the one behind him. Plus, really, the person at the booth would leave all those fans switched to "on" and just unplug them? The angle is also wrong when it goes back to the fan blowing everything. The fan is then shown to be farther from Tim and to the right more so it blows directly on the insulation booth. If it would have been the other fan, like it was suppose to be. It would have hit the booth next to them. Later at the Bug Bomb booth when Tim accidentally knocks over the mosquito trying to chase hissy fit Jill (since the boys all ditched her). Tim wasn't standing close enough to know over the container an the top doesn't really break and yet the mosquitos all swarm no problem. Plus, why is everyone swatting when he has repellent and spray right there at the booth? Talk about false advertising. That's a good point. Why would the fan be on if it wasn't plugged it? What would be the point? I doubt they planned to turn it on giving how much it would blow and almost destroy everything at the Expo. Why wouldn't the plug in be put up? Why would it just be on the ground? Why would any cords be on the ground loose? Why didn't everyone grab the repellent and spray immediately after it fell over? You'd think that would be the first thing they did. I did love how excited Tim was go and getting samples. It was like letting him loose in the hardware store. I could imagine my dad doing the same thing and being so excited about free samples. Do you really think the Expo would have done so much better by having Tim and Al destroy each of the booths? I'd find it funny to watch but I don't know how many people other people. Quote Brad is also shown to be more of a horn dog than ever. How he not only ditches Jill, but also Tim to see the hot tub models. I get Randy was with the other kid with the computer, but really no one had interest in going anywhere in Cleveland? Not like they went on a regular basis and all Mark did was go to the arcade on the trip. Where was he getting all the quarters? And no matter how you want to spin it, Jill eating all those fridge items, their bill had to be close to $400 and even if Binford was paying for the hotel. That was a horrible thing to do to the company and for someone who loved to complain about spending money on things (Jill a few episodes later would complain about the money Tim would spend "redoing" the hotrod for another year. She must have been pretty drunk to laugh at $18 nuts. Also, the photo of Wilson and the Beatles is one of the worst photoshop I have ever seen on TV and then Hall of Fame just let Jill walk out with it? I wondered about that. Especially when Jill mention that Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I've always wanted to go and as a teen in the 90s I really can't imagine too many teens who wouldn't want to go. Why didn't Jill just make them go? Sure they complained but they probably would have ended up having fun. When my family went on vacations we never really had the option of staying back at the hotel you were going to go unless we were sick I can't imagine having the option of saying no (not that I would have). We always packed as much as we could into each trip because we might not be able to make it back to the same place. Mark's remark about hanging out with his mother? I'd been grounded if I ever said that. But I still don't like Jill going up to Tim while he was on air and then got mad at him for not listening to her problems because he was working. Its not blowing you off Jill when he's working. You know the job that's paying for the 400 you just dropped on the mini bar because you were depressed. I really don't like Tim deciding not to do segment because he thinks he blew Jill off. 1 Link to comment
readster July 12, 2018 Share July 12, 2018 Over the past few days, since the later season episodes have been on and the boys dating. I just realized (this could have been the casting department) the boys all dated blondes. Jennifer, Angela, Lauren, Jessica, Heather, Lauren's sister, ect. Outside the girl that Brad made out with when he threw the one Halloween Party and Lauren's friend and Angela's sister who they tried setting up with. There wasn't much difference. I also noticed that they did tone down Angela's motor mouth towards her last few appearances. I wonder if it was based on the actress or the writers. Same with Lauren's love of cars, we NEVER saw her interested or wanting to do more with hot rod with Tim after her second appearance. I did like she was a car girl, but not a tom boy. Usually shows did the tomboy who is a hot girl or if they were into cars, building, ect they were the tough girl. Something I did like on Home Improvement with Lisa, Heidi, Lauren and even Jenny McCarthy's character (shutter). They loved tools and getting their hands dirty, but were still women. All the other women were either idiots or against tools and stuff. One that still stands out to me was when they pushed the feminist agenda with Jill starting with Angela is making food and doing Brad's chores because they pushed that Wilson was a feminist and he comes across like a dolt in the episode. Not only does he agree with Jill's POV, his voice gets higher and his support of the cause made me want to go: "Umm... you have no idea what the hell you are talking about do you?" I can tell the writers didn't know how to write the stories and Patricia Richardson portrayed it as super bitch and Earl Hindman I could tell was: "I'm doing this for a paycheck, just shut up and do it." It's painful. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 12, 2018 Share July 12, 2018 7 hours ago, readster said: Over the past few days, since the later season episodes have been on and the boys dating. I just realized (this could have been the casting department) the boys all dated blondes. Jennifer, Angela, Lauren, Jessica, Heather, Lauren's sister, ect. Outside the girl that Brad made out with when he threw the one Halloween Party and Lauren's friend and Angela's sister who they tried setting up with. There wasn't much difference. I also noticed that they did tone down Angela's motor mouth towards her last few appearances. I wonder if it was based on the actress or the writers. Same with Lauren's love of cars, we NEVER saw her interested or wanting to do more with hot rod with Tim after her second appearance. I did like she was a car girl, but not a tom boy. Usually shows did the tomboy who is a hot girl or if they were into cars, building, ect they were the tough girl. Something I did like on Home Improvement with Lisa, Heidi, Lauren and even Jenny McCarthy's character (shutter). They loved tools and getting their hands dirty, but were still women. All the other women were either idiots or against tools and stuff. Maybe the actress lost or was losing her voice and couldn't do the motor mouth anymore. I did find it funny how fast she talked. The only time I was annoyed was when she wouldn't stop talking so her sister could talk. I liked that Brad didn't mind or was even bothered by it. I like that Lauren was a car girl and not a tom boy. Yes usually they are almost always tom boys. No, you can be a girlie girl and still like cars. It was really cool to see women who loved tools. Usually characters like Heidi and Lisa end up being beautiful but dumb or always dieting or into make up and clothes but on tool time we got to see more depth. Heidi helped with fixing things. She helped rewired Al's game. She helped rebuild Benny's aunt's home. I can't remember how much Lisa did but in the episode she came back for a visit she had left to become a paramedic. She didn't go into modeling or anything not that there's anything wrong with that but its really nice to see characters beyond the usual. I don't like the episode where Tim thinks Al and Heidi are together and can't understand it. But I did like seeing Heidi and Al hanging out together and her telling him at the end that if she wasn't married she'd date him. Its nice to bust that stereotype that someone like Heidi wouldn't date someone like Al. Quote One that still stands out to me was when they pushed the feminist agenda with Jill starting with Angela is making food and doing Brad's chores because they pushed that Wilson was a feminist and he comes across like a dolt in the episode. Not only does he agree with Jill's POV, his voice gets higher and his support of the cause made me want to go: "Umm... you have no idea what the hell you are talking about do you?" I can tell the writers didn't know how to write the stories and Patricia Richardson portrayed it as super bitch and Earl Hindman I could tell was: "I'm doing this for a paycheck, just shut up and do it." It's painful. Jill was just so annoying in that episode. Acting as if all feminism was falling apart because Angela was making Brad's food and doing chores. She talks about how she tried to raise them and none of it is getting through? I mean seriously? So she really believes Brad is the type who will make his girlfriend do everything? Wow, that's a nice opinion you have of your son Jill. She just assumes Brad asks Angela to do so which he corrects her and says he didn't. Yet after that she doesn't drop it. She continues to be upset. Of what? So despite all her feminism, her psych classes and you know life she doesn't realize that is not uncommon for girlfriends to do stuff like that for their boyfriends? They do it to be nice and/or like to do it. That's it. Its also not uncommon for guys to do nice stuff for their girlfriends. She should know that because she was a teen girl once, had friends and sisters. But no she acts as if this is some huge crisis. I don't know what Wilson was talking about or why he was so upset either. He's usually the voice of reason. All of his comments would have made more sense if it was towards a huge crisis. Link to comment
readster July 12, 2018 Share July 12, 2018 Quote Maybe the actress lost or was losing her voice and couldn't do the motor mouth anymore. I did find it funny how fast she talked. The only time I was annoyed was when she wouldn't stop talking so her sister could talk. I liked that Brad didn't mind or was even bothered by it. I like that Lauren was a car girl and not a tom boy. Yes usually they are almost always tom boys. No, you can be a girlie girl and still like cars. It was really cool to see women who loved tools. Usually characters like Heidi and Lisa end up being beautiful but dumb or always dieting or into make up and clothes but on tool time we got to see more depth. Heidi helped with fixing things. She helped rewired Al's game. She helped rebuild Benny's aunt's home. I can't remember how much Lisa did but in the episode she came back for a visit she had left to become a paramedic. She didn't go into modeling or anything not that there's anything wrong with that but its really nice to see characters beyond the usual. I don't like the episode where Tim thinks Al and Heidi are together and can't understand it. But I did like seeing Heidi and Al hanging out together and her telling him at the end that if she wasn't married she'd date him. Its nice to bust that stereotype that someone like Heidi wouldn't date someone like Al. Exactly, they didn't try to be stereo typical. It was so refreshing for a show and what I think was the big problem was that Tim didn't like to think that Heidi was deciding to bail on her marriage for Al. However, as you said, it didn't come out that way. It didn't help a year later, we found out that he cheated with a co-worker during their "time away". Which was stereo typical and while they did fix things and at the end was pregnant with kid #2 (she was pregnant in real life and found out 2 weeks before they filmed the final episode). It showed that usually people who get into those situations don't usually split up or your root for them to split up. Quote That's it. Its also not uncommon for guys to do nice stuff for their girlfriends. She should know that because she was a teen girl once, had friends and sisters. But no she acts as if this is some huge crisis. I don't know what Wilson was talking about or why he was so upset either. He's usually the voice of reason. All of his comments would have made more sense if it was towards a huge crisis. Right and it isn't, even when Tim jumps in at the end, all Tim had to say was: "Brad, you need to let Angela she doesn't need to do it. If she wants too, that's fine, but don't have it where she thinks she has to always do that." That's all it would take and instead it comes off as just a crazy episode, where Jill is so out of character and Wilson is right with her and his advice makes NO SENSE at all. The writers of this episode really didn't know what to do and have everyone coming off like an idiot no matter what. With Wilson, I did like it when they would reverse things like Jill counter acting him after what Tim said on the video because it was hurtful. Or when Wilson got the bad review for his stage show and him thinking of moving away from Tim. It showed that Wilson doesn't always know best and needs advice himself. However, the entire "oh what a step back for feminism" made Wilson sounds like he didn't even know what he was talking about. Especially for someone who was married himself once. His wife didn't do things for him without asking? 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 13, 2018 Share July 13, 2018 10 hours ago, readster said: Exactly, they didn't try to be stereo typical. It was so refreshing for a show and what I think was the big problem was that Tim didn't like to think that Heidi was deciding to bail on her marriage for Al. However, as you said, it didn't come out that way. It didn't help a year later, we found out that he cheated with a co-worker during their "time away". Which was stereo typical and while they did fix things and at the end was pregnant with kid #2 (she was pregnant in real life and found out 2 weeks before they filmed the final episode). It showed that usually people who get into those situations don't usually split up or your root for them to split up. No, they didn't it was very refreshing. They even did that with Mark. Early in the series he liked the ballet. When Tim got the tickets to the Pistons game he gave Mark a choice and Mark still chose the ballet. Sure he got bribed with foam finger but he could have picked the Pistons instead of ballet and he didn't. It wasn't too often you saw a boy make that choice on TV unless it was Frasier or the kid was suppose to be seen as weird. It was surprising that Heidi and Scott didn't divorce that's usually what would have happened on TV if anything so there can be new stories. Heidi divorced, Heidi dating again. But it was different that they remained together and seemed to fix their relationship which is more common in real life. Quote Right and it isn't, even when Tim jumps in at the end, all Tim had to say was: "Brad, you need to let Angela she doesn't need to do it. If she wants too, that's fine, but don't have it where she thinks she has to always do that." That's all it would take and instead it comes off as just a crazy episode, where Jill is so out of character and Wilson is right with her and his advice makes NO SENSE at all. The writers of this episode really didn't know what to do and have everyone coming off like an idiot no matter what. With Wilson, I did like it when they would reverse things like Jill counter acting him after what Tim said on the video because it was hurtful. Or when Wilson got the bad review for his stage show and him thinking of moving away from Tim. It showed that Wilson doesn't always know best and needs advice himself. However, the entire "oh what a step back for feminism" made Wilson sounds like he didn't even know what he was talking about. Especially for someone who was married himself once. His wife didn't do things for him without asking? That was all Tim or really anyone needed to say. Problem solved. Its like they wanted this big outrage without actually providing a reason. They could have tried to come up with one but it wouldn't have made sense with Brad or really any of the boys. In the end it Jill looks like a moron again and how she could possibly end up being a therapist. You have her in this episode thinking her son makes his girlfriend do everything for him. Mark makes a horror movie and she thinks he wants to kill his family. And Wilson who usually is sane comes off as a moron too. I did like when it was reverse and Tim ended up giving Wilson advice it was fun to see but also really nice to see their friendship went both ways. Tim would help him out when ever he needed. And it was nice that sometimes he needed someone to talk to. I really liked the one when he thought about moving away because his memories of his wife were fading and Tim talked to him. Link to comment
readster July 14, 2018 Share July 14, 2018 Quote No, they didn't it was very refreshing. They even did that with Mark. Early in the series he liked the ballet. When Tim got the tickets to the Pistons game he gave Mark a choice and Mark still chose the ballet. Sure he got bribed with foam finger but he could have picked the Pistons instead of ballet and he didn't. Seeing Mark's goth wearing these last few days. I could tell that Noah started getting tired of it past the Halloween episode. There was a nice transition from the start of the season to even putting on black lipstick. The story started to work, but after the pot episode with Brad. you can tell that they were bored with the change and then Mark starts going towards getting away from it when they introduce Heather and the (being a 4 is better than being a 10) scale. There are also glaring problems with how everyone reacted to Ronnie. I mean, really this was a very monotone kid who looked at you like he was about to attack you. Their reaction when they thought Ronnie might have hidden the pot made sense. I also don't get how Wilson just handed a machete to Mark for the horror movie. I get this was more to get the audience to realize that Mark was just having a hard time and he thought goth would have it where his life made sense at 13 (we all went through that). However, Wilson didn't go: "Now, Mark that is a real blade and I love what you are doing with this movie, but there comes a point where you could hurt someone." Also, when everyone was going: "I don't know what this movie is about." Wilson didn't realize after his reading the script he didn't get what was going on. Plus, really, Al and Heidi were so quiet not to tell Tim and Jill they were in the movie too? Not the Al I knew, not to mention when did Heidi do her filming? Brad would have been like: "The hot tool girl is here, hey did you guys see her?" 1 Link to comment
readster July 15, 2018 Share July 15, 2018 I just realized something, why do a lot of people on the show have different accents, but never say they are from another state? Benny of course sounded like he was from New Jersey, yet, no talk he ever lived there. The episode where Randy and Lauren are hounded to go out with a couple at the high school to go bowling with them. They both talk like they are from New York, yet are from Michigan? Lillian constantly talks like she is from Texas, that's where she currently lives, yet none of the daughters have accents? It's never explained if that's where she originally from or not. I get the actors grew up in different states, but give us some explanation. This isn't like the half ass explanation on Last Man Standing how Ryan can be from Canada yet they lived in Colorado. Link to comment
andromeda331 July 15, 2018 Share July 15, 2018 16 hours ago, readster said: Seeing Mark's goth wearing these last few days. I could tell that Noah started getting tired of it past the Halloween episode. There was a nice transition from the start of the season to even putting on black lipstick. The story started to work, but after the pot episode with Brad. you can tell that they were bored with the change and then Mark starts going towards getting away from it when they introduce Heather and the (being a 4 is better than being a 10) scale. There are also glaring problems with how everyone reacted to Ronnie. I mean, really this was a very monotone kid who looked at you like he was about to attack you. Their reaction when they thought Ronnie might have hidden the pot made sense. It was a nice change in the beginning they finally gave Mark something to do. Brad had sports and girls Randy had writing and girls and later activist. Mark went Goth. It was a big change and gave him something to do. Then after awhile they didn't seem to know what to do with that anymore. He wore black, had one Goth friend, and made a horror movie. Maybe they should have had him date a Goth girl or make more Goth friends? I kind of think it would have been fun if he went through a few different fads or maybe go grunge and blast Nirvana. Or stick with film and doing more horror movies. That would be a lot of fun or maybe trying different genres. Looking back I'm surprise they didn't make Ronnie the one doing pot. It seems to fit with his character more but he wasn't (that we know of). I did laugh when Jill made a joke and Ronnie didn't laugh, Jill remarked it was a joke and after moment Ronnie very lowly said "good one". Quote I also don't get how Wilson just handed a machete to Mark for the horror movie. I get this was more to get the audience to realize that Mark was just having a hard time and he thought goth would have it where his life made sense at 13 (we all went through that). However, Wilson didn't go: "Now, Mark that is a real blade and I love what you are doing with this movie, but there comes a point where you could hurt someone." Also, when everyone was going: "I don't know what this movie is about." Wilson didn't realize after his reading the script he didn't get what was going on. Plus, really, Al and Heidi were so quiet not to tell Tim and Jill they were in the movie too? Not the Al I knew, not to mention when did Heidi do her filming? Brad would have been like: "The hot tool girl is here, hey did you guys see her?" Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless Wilson assumed it was to used as a prop. But still why hand over a real blade? No, one had any idea what the film was about? I can see why Tim and Jill since the scene they did had a voiceover the didn't know about. But Wilson probably would have figured it out quickly and Heidi because of her scene. No one talked to each other? Mark didn't tell anyone what it was about? No one asked him what it was about? How they should act out their scene? Where it was going? When did all the filming take place? It had to be after school or on the weekend because of school and Tool Time. Everyone else would be hanging around to watch each scene being filmed, wouldn't they? Al didn't tell Tim how fun it was to play Algore and what he did? Heidi and Wilson didn't either? It doesn't make any sense. Link to comment
andromeda331 July 15, 2018 Share July 15, 2018 3 hours ago, readster said: I just realized something, why do a lot of people on the show have different accents, but never say they are from another state? Benny of course sounded like he was from New Jersey, yet, no talk he ever lived there. The episode where Randy and Lauren are hounded to go out with a couple at the high school to go bowling with them. They both talk like they are from New York, yet are from Michigan? Lillian constantly talks like she is from Texas, that's where she currently lives, yet none of the daughters have accents? It's never explained if that's where she originally from or not. I get the actors grew up in different states, but give us some explanation. This isn't like the half ass explanation on Last Man Standing how Ryan can be from Canada yet they lived in Colorado. No, they don't Benny had to of gone to school with Tim or at least high school since they had the same shop teacher. It might have been nice if they did. Maybe Benny's family could have moved from New Jersey when he was a child or teen. Lillian being from Texas could explain why she and the Colonel lived there after getting out of the army and she wanted to go back there? I suppose the Colonel could have been from Texas but it was never said. But it could explain why the girls don't have accents depending on when he left the army they might have all been teenagers or older. Link to comment
readster July 15, 2018 Share July 15, 2018 (edited) Since they are getting ready to wrap up Season 7 on my local network in the next two days. I just realized the Talk Show episode is coming up. I have to say, that Jill is extremely hurtful to Tim. She turns around saying all the years Tim made fun of her on Tool Time. However, Jill not only calls out Tim's stupidity, but all the women on the show agree with her. From saying: "How can your husband want another child at your age or career?" "A mid life crisis? Why doesn't he just do things around the house." Never does she bring up the constant catering to her strict father, never admitting she is wrong (when Tim ALWAYS having to apologize when he isn't at fault.) Jill has no type of Al person on the Woman on Top episode to counter her arguments. The message is that this is Tim's years of payback for doing it to Jill and it comes across as very vicious. I also noticed when the final season started, they actually took a lot of this away with Jill. She still didn't admit she was wrong, but you do wonder if Patricia Richardson said: "You know what? Jill needs to get a clue herself, I hate this." Edited July 15, 2018 by readster spelling problems. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 16, 2018 Share July 16, 2018 20 hours ago, readster said: Since they are getting ready to wrap up Season 7 on my local network in the next two days. I just realized the Talk Show episode is coming up. I have to say, that Jill is extremely hurtful to Tim. She turns around saying all the years Tim made fun of her on Tool Time. However, Jill not only calls out Tim's stupidity, but all the women on the show agree with her. From saying: "How can your husband want another child at your age or career?" "A mid life crisis? Why doesn't he just do things around the house." Never does she bring up the constant catering to her strict father, never admitting she is wrong (when Tim ALWAYS having to apologize when he isn't at fault.) Jill has no type of Al person on the Woman on Top episode to counter her arguments. The message is that this is Tim's years of payback for doing it to Jill and it comes across as very vicious. I also noticed when the final season started, they actually took a lot of this away with Jill. She still didn't admit she was wrong, but you do wonder if Patricia Richardson said: "You know what? Jill needs to get a clue herself, I hate this." Yes, she does. Its the same thing she does every time she does something wrong. Like when she left the hot rod out in the snow. She doesn't apologize, doesn't admit she was wrong while blaming Tim because he dropped a beam on her car. The only thing she doesn't do is blame her father this time. Turning it around to blame Tim because of all the times he made fun of her? That doesn't make it anymore right. He was wrong to do that and she was wrong to make fun of him on TV. It was very annoy on that show that there wasn't even one woman who countered anything that Jill said or anyone else was. No, they were all just trash their husbands. Its crazy. Like when Jill mentions the midlife crisis not one woman says anything about it? These are suppose to be professionals right? You'd think one or all would comment on that one or ask what she's doing to help him through? It does take a lot away from Jill. All the times she messes up wouldn't be that bad if she had to apologize like Tim always did when he messed up. Same with her mess-ups in therapy. If they were chalked up to mistakes or even learning mistakes that would make a big difference. Its very annoying to have her never once get a clue about herself. How many times has she realized she's just like her father? But does nothing to change it or be aware of it. Link to comment
readster July 16, 2018 Share July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, andromeda331 said: Yes, she does. Its the same thing she does every time she does something wrong. Like when she left the hot rod out in the snow. She doesn't apologize, doesn't admit she was wrong while blaming Tim because he dropped a beam on her car. The only thing she doesn't do is blame her father this time. Turning it around to blame Tim because of all the times he made fun of her? That doesn't make it anymore right. He was wrong to do that and she was wrong to make fun of him on TV. It was very annoy on that show that there wasn't even one woman who countered anything that Jill said or anyone else was. No, they were all just trash their husbands. Its crazy. Like when Jill mentions the midlife crisis not one woman says anything about it? These are suppose to be professionals right? You'd think one or all would comment on that one or ask what she's doing to help him through? It does take a lot away from Jill. All the times she messes up wouldn't be that bad if she had to apologize like Tim always did when he messed up. Same with her mess-ups in therapy. If they were chalked up to mistakes or even learning mistakes that would make a big difference. Its very annoying to have her never once get a clue about herself. How many times has she realized she's just like her father? But does nothing to change it or be aware of it. Exactly and while many argued that Tim never learned from his mistakes and just kept doing rewiring and a few other things instead of: "Maybe, I should stop doing that, it always blows up." He didn't, but Tim was shown to many times know what he was doing. He had his power highs, but really, Tim new how to measure, fix things, knew the right tools for the job. It's like with Al bending over backwards for his mother all the time. It took until Ilene and him broke up and dating Trudy and then his mother finally dying for him to go: "You know what? I have to move on with my life." I think the only characters that learned anything were the boys. Brad for all his issues, did learn to be a better student, think that there was life past his sports ability after he got kicked off the team and injuring his knee. Randy realized he could be himself and not have to cater or act superior to others. Mark finally understood he didn't have to be the complete opposite of himself to be understood and that sometimes, kids and brothers just don't get each other, but they move on with their lives and grow up. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 16, 2018 Share July 16, 2018 7 hours ago, readster said: Exactly and while many argued that Tim never learned from his mistakes and just kept doing rewiring and a few other things instead of: "Maybe, I should stop doing that, it always blows up." He didn't, but Tim was shown to many times know what he was doing. He had his power highs, but really, Tim new how to measure, fix things, knew the right tools for the job. It's like with Al bending over backwards for his mother all the time. It took until Ilene and him broke up and dating Trudy and then his mother finally dying for him to go: "You know what? I have to move on with my life." No, he never learned from that. But we did see that he really know what he was doing he was always just too excited when he was adding more power to stop and do it right or stop to think whether or not things could hold a different engine. We saw his skills with the hot rod, he was able to tell immediately what was wrong with Al's game and fix it, There really isn't a comparable thing like that to Jill except her cooking which is horrible. But we are shown she can cook a really good breakfast because she did in the one with Randy's cancer scare and the episode where she followed a recipe and make a good dish for the potluck. She either doesn't care to do it right. They keep trying to tell us she is or will be a good therapist but we never see it. We're never shown it. We see many more signs she'd be bad at it. Maybe her problem is similar to Tim's she won't slow down and do things right? She thinks she knows what she's doing and Tim does too he's blinded by his excitement and she's blinded by always thinking she's right and so smart. If she slowed down and really tried she'd be a great cook. If she slowed down and really listened she'd be a good therapist. She's blinded by always thinking she's right with Tim that she won't stop and admit she's wrong? Quote I think the only characters that learned anything were the boys. Brad for all his issues, did learn to be a better student, think that there was life past his sports ability after he got kicked off the team and injuring his knee. Randy realized he could be himself and not have to cater or act superior to others. Mark finally understood he didn't have to be the complete opposite of himself to be understood and that sometimes, kids and brothers just don't get each other, but they move on with their lives and grow up. I think your right. Except for the more power thing Tim worked hard to do better over the years. The boys each did too. They learned lessons. Tim learns his or really tries to. Jill doesn't and doesn't have too. Randy also learned to be passion it causes but not in a way that makes people think you want to destroy stuff. Like when Tim explains how he went wrong trying to save shop class in high school and everyone thought he wanted to destroy the music department. He explains to Brad in a much better way the whole Angela making his lunch and doing his chores. It would have been nice to see Jill learn and trying to better when she apologized for messing up. Not to blame her husband. And also working how much she's like her father. Al's issues with his mother I'm glad they got fixed but I wish it had been Tim who helped him more then Ilene I know Tim talks to him and helps him understand. But who understands more about Al's issues then Tim? They both lost their fathers young. The differences seem to be how their mothers dealt with it. Al's mother ended up clinging to her son to the point she can't understand why he wants some alone time with his girlfriend. Tim's mom went to work and really worked hard to raise her sons to go out in the world (with various success). Al clinged to his mother for the same reason but also feeling that he should. He made a promise to his father that he would take care of her and took it to extremes. Of course his father didn't mean to sacrifice his life and a future with his girlfriend. But to look after her. Both Tim and Al went into their careers that their fathers had. It seems like that all would have been something Tim and Al would have talked about more and Tim would have been able to help him. 1 Link to comment
readster July 17, 2018 Share July 17, 2018 Quote Al's issues with his mother I'm glad they got fixed but I wish it had been Tim who helped him more then Ilene I know Tim talks to him and helps him understand. But who understands more about Al's issues then Tim? They both lost their fathers young. The differences seem to be how their mothers dealt with it. Al's mother ended up clinging to her son to the point she can't understand why he wants some alone time with his girlfriend. Tim's mom went to work and really worked hard to raise her sons to go out in the world (with various success). Al clinged to his mother for the same reason but also feeling that he should. He made a promise to his father that he would take care of her and took it to extremes. Of course his father didn't mean to sacrifice his life and a future with his girlfriend. But to look after her. Both Tim and Al went into their careers that their fathers had. It seems like that all would have been something Tim and Al would have talked about more and Tim would have been able to help him. How true and as it was shown in flash backs, Tim might not have gone into tools if his father had not died when he was so young. Of course, if Tim's father would have been around longer, he might have learned to slow down on things. Maybe Jeff would have had more successful early in life and Marty would have learned to work through problems. Quote It would have been nice to see Jill learn and trying to better when she apologized for messing up. Not to blame her husband. And also working how much she's like her father. Plus, if you look at it, the family catered around just making Jill's father happy, even when they knew he was wrong. More can from Lillian with her: "We are a military family, this is what we do, so don't get emotional." Even later on when she admitted all the stuff she did with Parker was because Jill's father hated all those things. Reminded me of my own father-in-law, growing up in my wife's family it was: "Just do what he wants and make him happy." Well, you do that for twenty odd years and then you are grown up and have your own life and they are still acting that way. You realize that someone could have said: "You know what? I like these things, just because you don't, so you know what. I'm going to enjoy it and you do your stuff." When it's over 40 years later. Then people feel hurt that they don't get their way or that for years everyone felt they had to hide their feelings. Does more damage in the long run and to other people like with Tim or even Al. Jill couldn't be wrong and when she was, everyone was like: "Holy crap! She is admitting she is wrong, get the tape recorder." When Al didn't do what his mother wanted it was: "Holy crap, Al is being an adult! Get the recorder." Sadly, people no matter how old they get or get things shoved in their face they are wrong, just don't want be wrong because then they feel the world is coming unglued. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 18, 2018 Share July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 7:19 PM, readster said: How true and as it was shown in flash backs, Tim might not have gone into tools if his father had not died when he was so young. Of course, if Tim's father would have been around longer, he might have learned to slow down on things. Maybe Jeff would have had more successful early in life and Marty would have learned to work through problems. That's a good point. I wonder if Tim ever considered that. He might have gone into a completely different field. Al might have too if his father hadn't died young either. Quote Plus, if you look at it, the family catered around just making Jill's father happy, even when they knew he was wrong. More can from Lillian with her: "We are a military family, this is what we do, so don't get emotional." Even later on when she admitted all the stuff she did with Parker was because Jill's father hated all those things. Reminded me of my own father-in-law, growing up in my wife's family it was: "Just do what he wants and make him happy." Well, you do that for twenty odd years and then you are grown up and have your own life and they are still acting that way. You realize that someone could have said: "You know what? I like these things, just because you don't, so you know what. I'm going to enjoy it and you do your stuff." When it's over 40 years later. Then people feel hurt that they don't get their way or that for years everyone felt they had to hide their feelings. Does more damage in the long run and to other people like with Tim or even Al. Jill couldn't be wrong and when she was, everyone was like: "Holy crap! She is admitting she is wrong, get the tape recorder." When Al didn't do what his mother wanted it was: "Holy crap, Al is being an adult! Get the recorder." Sadly, people no matter how old they get or get things shoved in their face they are wrong, just don't want be wrong because then they feel the world is coming unglued. That's just a crappy way to live. Teaching your kids to never go to their father or tell him the truth. That you all have to worry about just making him happy. No wonder Jill grows up with issues. Her sisters should end up having more issues too. But maybe they do. Jill never able to admit she's wrong but always blaming her husband because they were never allowed to blame her father when he was wrong. They knew he was and still had lie that he was right. When Lillian told Jill stuff she was doing with Parker that she loved and Jill's father hated. I mean that's sad. To spend fifty-one years of marriage never doing what you want to because you know your husband hates it? It wouldn't be so bad if it was just dancing but it was probably a lot of things Lillian loved to do that the Colonel didn't. I can't say its not uncommon especially in the past. My dad's parents was similar. Other family members and some friends. It is interesting that Jill knows how it feels and yet she ends up being the most like her father. It doesn't ever occur to her she's wrong. Even when its pointed out to her, she can't admit it and blames Tim. You might say she made sure she'd never ever end up in a marriage like her mother that she makes sure she is always right and even married a husband with a lot of faults and messes up a lot. It makes it easy to re-enforce her own need to always be right and always will be. That way she won't have to worry about being just like her mother. You'd think realizing how much she's like her father would really hit her hard. That she would try hard to change it. Link to comment
readster July 19, 2018 Share July 19, 2018 Quote Even when its pointed out to her, she can't admit it and blames Tim. You might say she made sure she'd never ever end up in a marriage like her mother that she makes sure she is always right and even married a husband with a lot of faults and messes up a lot. It makes it easy to re-enforce her own need to always be right and always will be. That way she won't have to worry about being just like her mother. You'd think realizing how much she's like her father would really hit her hard. That she would try hard to change it. I noticed now that the final season is airing now on Laff, Jill really started doing things that Tim told her he didn't want to do. From his surprise birthday party to even how the boys were starting to move on in life. She was all: "I can't believe you want this, we have to hold on." Tim looks at her and goes: "But we knew this was coming, and I see it as a great opportunity." Jill kept going: "No, I have to protect my babies." 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 19, 2018 Share July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, readster said: I noticed now that the final season is airing now on Laff, Jill really started doing things that Tim told her he didn't want to do. From his surprise birthday party to even how the boys were starting to move on in life. She was all: "I can't believe you want this, we have to hold on." Tim looks at her and goes: "But we knew this was coming, and I see it as a great opportunity." Jill kept going: "No, I have to protect my babies." The birthday was insane. He didn't want to go. He didn't want to do it. She knew because he told her want he wanted to do. Then gets mad at him for not being happy on the trip? If he had done that to her she would have yelled at him for it. The episode with Brad playing soccer in England was on. I can't believe Jill doesn't realize what an opportunity that would be? No she keeps harping about college. Yes, college is very important but an opportunity like that doesn't come around every day. You have to take it. I love how Brad points out that Randy's in Costa Rica. But doesn't see it as the same thing because that's still a school thing? He'd be playing professional soccer and getting paid. He'd be doing the job he hopes to get without going college. Maybe he'd blow out his knee or something but at least he'd gone and tried. How's he going to feel knowing he had the chance and never took it? Its just insane. Playing soccer in college isn't the same thing because soccer isn't that big in this country as is there. He can always go back to college after soccer. Her getting mad at Tim for answering honestly, that he'd skip college if he was offered Tool Time and he answers honestly? Okay so now she doesn't want to be honest. But back when Brad was getting high she wanted to be honest that she did drugs? Of course Tim would have said yes. Some opportunities are too big and don't come around again. 1 Link to comment
readster July 20, 2018 Share July 20, 2018 20 hours ago, andromeda331 said: The birthday was insane. He didn't want to go. He didn't want to do it. She knew because he told her want he wanted to do. Then gets mad at him for not being happy on the trip? If he had done that to her she would have yelled at him for it. The episode with Brad playing soccer in England was on. I can't believe Jill doesn't realize what an opportunity that would be? No she keeps harping about college. Yes, college is very important but an opportunity like that doesn't come around every day. You have to take it. I love how Brad points out that Randy's in Costa Rica. But doesn't see it as the same thing because that's still a school thing? He'd be playing professional soccer and getting paid. He'd be doing the job he hopes to get without going college. Maybe he'd blow out his knee or something but at least he'd gone and tried. How's he going to feel knowing he had the chance and never took it? Its just insane. Playing soccer in college isn't the same thing because soccer isn't that big in this country as is there. He can always go back to college after soccer. Her getting mad at Tim for answering honestly, that he'd skip college if he was offered Tool Time and he answers honestly? Okay so now she doesn't want to be honest. But back when Brad was getting high she wanted to be honest that she did drugs? Of course Tim would have said yes. Some opportunities are too big and don't come around again. I agree and the people that were the tour guides for Tim and him going someplace Jill knew he would most likely hate. That just didn't any sense and sad to say, even though it wasn't decided until about half way through the season that this was it for the show. You could tell they were starting to run out of ideas for characters. I was also wondering why Jill had to have such a problem with Trudy buying things for Al. I mean, they were in a committed relationship, she was basically being the reversal of a rich boyfriend, showing his girlfriend with gifts. I mean, the car was shocking, but really. Jill blew things so out of proportion too. Then she has to go back on Tim just the episode before on how she would miss Randy, but wouldn't discourage him from going away to Costa Rica? Yet, Brad had a chance to play professionally out of high school, make a bit of money and then go to college afterwards? Oh no, Jill had to go ballistic on it and then of course, Brad hurts hit knee by barely tripping on a carpet roll. That you could plainly see. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 20, 2018 Share July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, readster said: I agree and the people that were the tour guides for Tim and him going someplace Jill knew he would most likely hate. That just didn't any sense and sad to say, even though it wasn't decided until about half way through the season that this was it for the show. You could tell they were starting to run out of ideas for characters. I was also wondering why Jill had to have such a problem with Trudy buying things for Al. I mean, they were in a committed relationship, she was basically being the reversal of a rich boyfriend, showing his girlfriend with gifts. I mean, the car was shocking, but really. Jill blew things so out of proportion too. Then she has to go back on Tim just the episode before on how she would miss Randy, but wouldn't discourage him from going away to Costa Rica? Yet, Brad had a chance to play professionally out of high school, make a bit of money and then go to college afterwards? Oh no, Jill had to go ballistic on it and then of course, Brad hurts hit knee by barely tripping on a carpet roll. That you could plainly see. Yeah, Jill wouldn't say anything to ruin Randy's chance to go to Costa Rica. She even gets angry at Tim for doing so even if it meant Randy would be at home. But then flips out at Brad possibly going to England to play professional soccer? She worried that Randy would hold it against him. She not worried that Brad will hold it against them for missing the biggest chance you get when it comes to play professional soccer? Why couldn't Brad play, earn money and go to college after soccer? Even if he blew out his knee playing it still would have been worth it to try. You can always go back to college as Jill should know because she went back to school as an adult. Brad really should have been angry over that. It was a huge opportunity for him. She tries to do the same thing later in the season with the UCLA recruiter. She doesn't want him to play because his knee may or may not have healed. This time Brad points out if he doesn't try he'll never forgive himself for not trying. Does she really think soccer scholarships are going to come around again? If he waited there was really no chance the recruiter would come back. He'll move onto other players. There's millions of kids every year hoping to make a college soccer team. Brad would have lost out on scholarship and probably a chance to play soccer in college. What about after college? Unless he's lucky enough to make the national team that would kind of be it. The MLS had only started a few years before the show I don't know the odds of him making one of the team or how well they paid. England of course is a different story, he could have gone onto to a really big soccer career. Brad injuring his knee couldn't they have had him fall into something or put something there so he actually hurt himself instead of look like he hurt it even though he barely tripped. I really don't know why Jill had such a problem with Trudy's present either. She is aware that she isn't in the relationship right? Its not her business what Trudy choses to give Al. I really didn't like her deciding that Trudy giving Al the car because she had some problem. Maybe she's just a nice person who thought Al would like the car. Rich people do tend to do stuff like that. She just went on and on about it. Why does she care so much? 1 Link to comment
readster July 20, 2018 Share July 20, 2018 Quote I really don't know why Jill had such a problem with Trudy's present either. She is aware that she isn't in the relationship right? Its not her business what Trudy choses to give Al. I really didn't like her deciding that Trudy giving Al the car because she had some problem. Maybe she's just a nice person who thought Al would like the car. Rich people do tend to do stuff like that. She just went on and on about it. Why does she care so much? Right, unlike what happened not long after with finding out that Scott cheated on Heidi. Of course, Tim had to probe Jill when she was talking on the phone, but really why did she make the phone call at home? I get she didn't have a cell phone, but the offices were part of the college. She could have made the call once everyone was done. Done her reasons why it was a conflict and went home without problems. Not like Jill didn't know when to keep secrets, especially after playing along with Wilson just the previous episode and never gave up the prank. So, when Tim over hears she can't see a patient due to conflict of interest. She can't go: "Tim, don't you eve think about it!" Tim dropped things before with those words, instead he dogs her, when he knows she can't do this and then when it is revealed on Scott. He is not only shocked, but can't believe Scott would do that until it comes out at dinner. I just don't get how the woman was still hung up on Scott when the affair happened almost a year prior and was apparently just a one night stand. Really, Scott gives a few presents to people and she is: "He really loves me!" Would have made more sense it was before they got back together or just a couple of weeks later. Instead, this is all brought up almost 8 months later. Didn't ring true, even though that Heidi decided to forgive Scott and realized she almost did the same with Al. Even though Al wouldn't have done that, it was the first time in forever a show went: "It isn't always black and white, sometimes people do stupid things and they forgive and move on." Also ironic that Debbie in real life just recently divorced from her husband early this year due to feeling they had been slowly having problems for years and after their last kid was born 10 years ago, they realized they weren't as in love as they once were. Ending a 24 year relationship. Sadly, life happens and people don't see a way through things. Plus, I remember originally the story was based on Particia Richardson's real life marriage. How it started falling apart after they had their twins and then they decided to mutual break up as it had become about staying together for the their kids and not themselves. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 20, 2018 Share July 20, 2018 6 hours ago, readster said: Right, unlike what happened not long after with finding out that Scott cheated on Heidi. Of course, Tim had to probe Jill when she was talking on the phone, but really why did she make the phone call at home? I get she didn't have a cell phone, but the offices were part of the college. She could have made the call once everyone was done. Done her reasons why it was a conflict and went home without problems. Not like Jill didn't know when to keep secrets, especially after playing along with Wilson just the previous episode and never gave up the prank. So, when Tim over hears she can't see a patient due to conflict of interest. She can't go: "Tim, don't you eve think about it!" Tim dropped things before with those words, instead he dogs her, when he knows she can't do this and then when it is revealed on Scott. He is not only shocked, but can't believe Scott would do that until it comes out at dinner. I just don't get how the woman was still hung up on Scott when the affair happened almost a year prior and was apparently just a one night stand. Really, Scott gives a few presents to people and she is: "He really loves me!" Would have made more sense it was before they got back together or just a couple of weeks later. Instead, this is all brought up almost 8 months later. Didn't ring true, even though that Heidi decided to forgive Scott and realized she almost did the same with Al. Even though Al wouldn't have done that, it was the first time in forever a show went: "It isn't always black and white, sometimes people do stupid things and they forgive and move on." Also ironic that Debbie in real life just recently divorced from her husband early this year due to feeling they had been slowly having problems for years and after their last kid was born 10 years ago, they realized they weren't as in love as they once were. Ending a 24 year relationship. Sadly, life happens and people don't see a way through things. Plus, I remember originally the story was based on Particia Richardson's real life marriage. How it started falling apart after they had their twins and then they decided to mutual break up as it had become about staying together for the their kids and not themselves. The Scott thing drives me crazy, as you pointed out Jill could have made the call at the college. There was no one there she could talk to? Why wait until she was already home when she was at the college and could have easily switched patients. She also could have talk to someone there. Tim should have dropped it when she said it was confidential but Jill also really doesn't take too long to spill. Sure he was guessing who it was but she didn't have to say anything. She could have repeated that she couldn't break confidentially. But she does and Tim of course can't stay quiet at dinner. Although why they wouldn't have canceled at that point? Tim won't be able to stay quiet about something like that. Although it might be nice if he did. Poor Heidi ends up finding out at dinner in a restaurant by the waiter. Tim was a jerk complaining about how much money they blew on drinks. Really? That's what you complain about while your co-worker and friend just found out her husband cheated on her? Then later Jill breaks it again telling Wilson, this time without even bothering to keep that information to herself. Then gets mad when Wilson points out her teacher could have been fired and the college could have been sued. Which yes it could have. Something like that could have destroyed the college and Wendy would have every right to sue. She told her therapist her problem and her therapist told her husband and her neighbor. But Jill's upset because Wilson's not making her feel better. Wow Jill way to feel bad about what you did. He's point out what you did had much more serious consequences then you realized. Jill and Tim both never really come off as sorry for what they did. Also after Jill breaks her confidence to Tim, she immediately tells him that he needs to talk to Scott or Heidi. Ah, how does that work Jill? They both got lucky that neither asked how Jill and Tim knew about the affair. Is that how she's going to be with her patients? They tell her something is she going to go someone or go to the person their talking about to try and fix things? It doesn't work that way. I don't like how quickly Scott and Heidi made up, they could have had it last over a few episodes. One night of yelling and talking and everything's fix? Why not give them a little more time to work things out. He kept something pretty big from her. I don't like Heidi thinking she could have done the same thing with Al. She never did. I don't think Al would have done anything with her because she was married but also going through a rough time. I realize Brad didn't know why Tim didn't want to talk to Scott but its still weird hearing him say he showed Scott by not answering his calls he's not going to the football game with him. I'm surprised Scott's calling Tim to invite him to the game Heidi works for Tim and is her friend. He really thinks Tim still wants to go a football game with him? At that point Tim doesn't know yet he and Heidi worked things out. Even if he had it would still be weird to call that soon and invite him out to a game. I didn't realize that was the reason both Patricia's and Debbe's marriages ended. I did wonder during the episode if someone on the crew had similar break up because Heidi and Marty both had similar problems. Things changing after their kids were born. It seemed odd in a TV show it would come up twice. I don't mind that Heidi's didn't lead to divorce but I wish it had taken longer to resolve. It was really weird for Wendy to still be hung up on Scott. Unless Scott was lying it only happened once eight months ago. Wendy talks as if they are still together. It would make more sense if she doesn't understand how she ended up in an affair with a married man or it had just ended. Eight months later? That's a long time to still be hung up on a married man she slept with once. 1 Link to comment
readster July 20, 2018 Share July 20, 2018 57 minutes ago, andromeda331 said: The Scott thing drives me crazy, as you pointed out Jill could have made the call at the college. There was no one there she could talk to? Why wait until she was already home when she was at the college and could have easily switched patients. She also could have talk to someone there. Tim should have dropped it when she said it was confidential but Jill also really doesn't take too long to spill. Sure he was guessing who it was but she didn't have to say anything. She could have repeated that she couldn't break confidentially. But she does and Tim of course can't stay quiet at dinner. Although why they wouldn't have canceled at that point? Tim won't be able to stay quiet about something like that. Although it might be nice if he did. Poor Heidi ends up finding out at dinner in a restaurant by the waiter. Tim was a jerk complaining about how much money they blew on drinks. Really? That's what you complain about while your co-worker and friend just found out her husband cheated on her? Then later Jill breaks it again telling Wilson, this time without even bothering to keep that information to herself. Then gets mad when Wilson points out her teacher could have been fired and the college could have been sued. Which yes it could have. Something like that could have destroyed the college and Wendy would have every right to sue. She told her therapist her problem and her therapist told her husband and her neighbor. But Jill's upset because Wilson's not making her feel better. Wow Jill way to feel bad about what you did. He's point out what you did had much more serious consequences then you realized. Jill and Tim both never really come off as sorry for what they did. Also after Jill breaks her confidence to Tim, she immediately tells him that he needs to talk to Scott or Heidi. Ah, how does that work Jill? They both got lucky that neither asked how Jill and Tim knew about the affair. Is that how she's going to be with her patients? They tell her something is she going to go someone or go to the person their talking about to try and fix things? It doesn't work that way. I don't like how quickly Scott and Heidi made up, they could have had it last over a few episodes. One night of yelling and talking and everything's fix? Why not give them a little more time to work things out. He kept something pretty big from her. I don't like Heidi thinking she could have done the same thing with Al. She never did. I don't think Al would have done anything with her because she was married but also going through a rough time. I realize Brad didn't know why Tim didn't want to talk to Scott but its still weird hearing him say he showed Scott by not answering his calls he's not going to the football game with him. I'm surprised Scott's calling Tim to invite him to the game Heidi works for Tim and is her friend. He really thinks Tim still wants to go a football game with him? At that point Tim doesn't know yet he and Heidi worked things out. Even if he had it would still be weird to call that soon and invite him out to a game. I didn't realize that was the reason both Patricia's and Debbe's marriages ended. I did wonder during the episode if someone on the crew had similar break up because Heidi and Marty both had similar problems. Things changing after their kids were born. It seemed odd in a TV show it would come up twice. I don't mind that Heidi's didn't lead to divorce but I wish it had taken longer to resolve. It was really weird for Wendy to still be hung up on Scott. Unless Scott was lying it only happened once eight months ago. Wendy talks as if they are still together. It would make more sense if she doesn't understand how she ended up in an affair with a married man or it had just ended. Eight months later? That's a long time to still be hung up on a married man she slept with once. Yeah, Jill comes off in the wrong completely and Tim doesn't do much better. However, Jill has done a very stupid thing with a patient who apparently didn't have a clue themselves. I wish Wilson would have gone into all the times Jill felt she had to fix things that didn't need fixing or how she purposely put herself in this situation. Everything with Scott also comes off as a head scratcher. At that point, Scott should have honestly just stayed out of anything Tim or Al for a while. He had a lot to fix with Heidi and why he wanted to cheat with Wendy, I would like to know myself. Not that things like this don't happen, but seriously, look at Wendy and then look at Heidi. It's also such a TV troupe as soon as a marriage has problems, one of them has to go out and have an affair. Reminded me on Brothers & Sisters when they had Tommy have problems with his wife and then they changed that she also had an affair about a day later. Then she went on to blame Tommy for daring to cheat on her. It was like: "Wait, what?" How are you absolved of this when you did the same and your parents rejoiced on the cheating? Here Wendy is hung up on things that happened 8 months later. Was also apparently all in her head because she even said to Jill: "This has to mean something." Jill should have replied: "You slept with a married man who was going through a hard time." "He doesn't call or continue the affair and nothing has happened in almost a year." "What does that tell you Wendy?" I really saw at this point, the writers really pushed Jill graduating because they didn't know how being a therapist worked and then tried to do this for laughs and based on Patricia Richardson's own divorce that also crossed over to Marty having a split up too. I guess the writers then went: "Wait, we can't have two characters suffer a lost of a marriage, especially when kids are involved." So, they decided Marty had more of a history and they had laid enough foundations and decided to just fix Heidi and Scott in one episode. I really wish Jill would have suffered more for it as a result. Instead they waited to call into question when Mark films her calling her chair an "ass" and his hair cut at the same time. Boy, was he a forgiving professor and chair. If I did that with my chair, she kill me. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 21, 2018 Share July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, readster said: Yeah, Jill comes off in the wrong completely and Tim doesn't do much better. However, Jill has done a very stupid thing with a patient who apparently didn't have a clue themselves. I wish Wilson would have gone into all the times Jill felt she had to fix things that didn't need fixing or how she purposely put herself in this situation. It would have been so great if Wilson had done that. She constantly tries to do that went it doesn't need fixing or she really shouldn't but into. It would have been nice to have someone point that out to her. She tried to get Tim to talk to Heidi or Scott. Does she realize as a therapist her job is to listen to the patient and talk to the patient. Help the patient through talking. Not to try and fix things herself. So if patient is having problems with their spouse is she going to try and talk to the spouse? Make Tim go talk to the spouse? She's always getting in the middle of things that aren't her busy. Like when her mother is talking to her about her father, well Jill think she should talk to her father, it doesn't go well and she gets yelled at by both parents. Her mother was just venting, why couldn't she just listen and stay out if it. Plus she thinks she's going to get her Colonel of a father to change just because she talks to him. She butted into Michelle's dad venting about his wife and that blows up in her face. Maybe just try listening Jill. Quote Everything with Scott also comes off as a head scratcher. At that point, Scott should have honestly just stayed out of anything Tim or Al for a while. He had a lot to fix with Heidi and why he wanted to cheat with Wendy, I would like to know myself. Not that things like this don't happen, but seriously, look at Wendy and then look at Heidi. It's also such a TV troupe as soon as a marriage has problems, one of them has to go out and have an affair. Reminded me on Brothers & Sisters when they had Tommy have problems with his wife and then they changed that she also had an affair about a day later. Then she went on to blame Tommy for daring to cheat on her. It was like: "Wait, what?" How are you absolved of this when you did the same and your parents rejoiced on the cheating? Here Wendy is hung up on things that happened 8 months later. Was also apparently all in her head because she even said to Jill: "This has to mean something." Jill should have replied: "You slept with a married man who was going through a hard time." "He doesn't call or continue the affair and nothing has happened in almost a year." "What does that tell you Wendy?" It doesn't help this is the only time we've seen Scott so we don't know much about him. Wendy made it sound like one thing led to another when they went out to eat. She doesn't say anything else so it sounds more like a one night stand eight months ago. I don't know why Wendy is so hung up on him. She acts like she's in love. From what? One night? It doesn't even sound like they went out a bunch of times before they slept together or things built up from working together. Jill should have said exactly that "You slept with a married man who was going through a hard time." Or ask why she's so hung up on him give how long ago it was. It would be one thing if Wendy sounded ashamed or confused by her behavior. But both Scott and Wendy Heidi mentioned problems in the bedroom when the separated which doesn't really make Scott sound much better. Heidi confident in Al with marriage problems Scott had a one night stand. Its not the same thing. It would have been nice if they avoid the TV trope marriage problems always means cheating. Especially if they were having them "fix" their marriage after a night of fighting and talking, after something as big as an cheating. That doesn't work for something as big as cheating. Heidi didn't know and Scott wasn't the one who told her. There's no way she'd calm down enough to talk to Scott that quickly or get over it. TV is weird when it comes to cheating. Its their go to when for marriage problems. It didn't make it anymore right on Brothers & Sisters both cheated and that's bad. One doesn't get let off the hook if the other spouse cheated too. Or they want it to blow over quickly. Which doesn't work because something as big as cheating no one gets over quickly even if they end up staying marriage. Quote I really saw at this point, the writers really pushed Jill graduating because they didn't know how being a therapist worked and then tried to do this for laughs and based on Patricia Richardson's own divorce that also crossed over to Marty having a split up too. I guess the writers then went: "Wait, we can't have two characters suffer a lost of a marriage, especially when kids are involved." So, they decided Marty had more of a history and they had laid enough foundations and decided to just fix Heidi and Scott in one episode. I really wish Jill would have suffered more for it as a result. Instead they waited to call into question when Mark films her calling her chair an "ass" and his hair cut at the same time. Boy, was he a forgiving professor and chair. If I did that with my chair, she kill me. That was probably as far as their thinking. I guess they didn't have anyone else they could ask? No one else among the cast and crew was divorce? People split up for various reasons. They grow a part, one or both change, they fall out of love, get a job in another city or state and don't want to move, drinking problems, drug problems, workaholic, stuff builds up. I really wish Jill had suffered too. She revealed information from a patient. That is a big deal. That's why there are big consequences for it. She should have to deal with some kind of consequence. 1 Link to comment
readster July 21, 2018 Share July 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, andromeda331 said: It would have been so great if Wilson had done that. She constantly tries to do that went it doesn't need fixing or she really shouldn't but into. It would have been nice to have someone point that out to her. She tried to get Tim to talk to Heidi or Scott. Does she realize as a therapist her job is to listen to the patient and talk to the patient. Help the patient through talking. Not to try and fix things herself. So if patient is having problems with their spouse is she going to try and talk to the spouse? Make Tim go talk to the spouse? She's always getting in the middle of things that aren't her busy. Like when her mother is talking to her about her father, well Jill think she should talk to her father, it doesn't go well and she gets yelled at by both parents. Her mother was just venting, why couldn't she just listen and stay out if it. Plus she thinks she's going to get her Colonel of a father to change just because she talks to him. She butted into Michelle's dad venting about his wife and that blows up in her face. Maybe just try listening Jill. I really wish Jill had suffered too. She revealed information from a patient. That is a big deal. That's why there are big consequences for it. She should have to deal with some kind of consequence. There was also such a major shift not long after all this with getting Jill finished with school. Not sure if this was based on them deciding that season 8 was it for the show, but everything with Jill doing her therpy as a graduate student was way, way too brief. Psychology is a very interesting field and when they did the change for Jill to defend her thesis, I wanted to go: "What the hell was her research on?" She had to have a specialty in order to write her thesis and then get license. We never saw her taking her state license or clinical license. There was just; "Jill has another final and now she has to defend her thesis." That's not how it works in any field when someone is getting a: PhD, EdD, MD or even ED.S. There are different requirements and tests and while things were easier in the late 90s and less hoops to jump through. Jill was just constantly taking classes and then in the final season she was just skipping to professional sessions and trying to graduate. That's not how it works for a Masters or a Doctorate. There are projects, main papers and internships. Her session with Wendy might have counted as an internship. However, after everything went to hell. The next thing we know she is getting ready to defend her thesis, and then gets offered a job in another state by graduation. That's it. Was a very rush end. Sad to say, looking back on the final season. Outside of Marty moving in, Randy leaving, Brad trying to get into college on a soccer scholarship and Al's relationship with Trudy. Many of the episodes just dragged. Even the part with Tim doing a blind date contest for a contractor made no sense. When there was no job or prize. Seemed more about guest stars on Tool Time and the episodes had really thin plots outside of the ones I mentioned. The show really was starting to run out of ideas, so it was a good thing it didn't go into season 9. Link to comment
andromeda331 July 21, 2018 Share July 21, 2018 6 hours ago, readster said: There was also such a major shift not long after all this with getting Jill finished with school. Not sure if this was based on them deciding that season 8 was it for the show, but everything with Jill doing her therpy as a graduate student was way, way too brief. Psychology is a very interesting field and when they did the change for Jill to defend her thesis, I wanted to go: "What the hell was her research on?" She had to have a specialty in order to write her thesis and then get license. We never saw her taking her state license or clinical license. There was just; "Jill has another final and now she has to defend her thesis." That's not how it works in any field when someone is getting a: PhD, EdD, MD or even ED.S. There are different requirements and tests and while things were easier in the late 90s and less hoops to jump through. Jill was just constantly taking classes and then in the final season she was just skipping to professional sessions and trying to graduate. That's not how it works for a Masters or a Doctorate. There are projects, main papers and internships. Her session with Wendy might have counted as an internship. However, after everything went to hell. The next thing we know she is getting ready to defend her thesis, and then gets offered a job in another state by graduation. That's it. Was a very rush end. It really made no sense. I wish they had done a little research on how exactly it goes with classes and internships and things with getting a PH.D. Not only would it have made the timeline make more sense without Jill going back and forth from studying to thesis to student therapist to... It also might have given them more ideas for that storyline. It also would have helped if they had shown Jill was good at it. Or getting better after the fiasco with Wendy. Did we even see her help anyone? She had Wendy which she had to pass onto someone else. There were Ronnie's parents she had to pass on since she knew them too. And the first couple asked for a different therapist after she babbled on about some emotional focus therapy. Yet at the end of the series she's getting offered a job in another state? Was it based only on her grades? I don't think we saw any other clients. Quote Sad to say, looking back on the final season. Outside of Marty moving in, Randy leaving, Brad trying to get into college on a soccer scholarship and Al's relationship with Trudy. Many of the episodes just dragged. Even the part with Tim doing a blind date contest for a contractor made no sense. When there was no job or prize. Seemed more about guest stars on Tool Time and the episodes had really thin plots outside of the ones I mentioned. The show really was starting to run out of ideas, so it was a good thing it didn't go into season 9. The last seasons of most shows usually end up being my least favor. Probably because its the last and I end up thinking your wasting an episode on this? It never seems like shows are making the most of their last season. There were some big stuff that happened in season eight with Randy leaving and Marty moving in with his kids. But not so much in a lot of others. They really must have ran out of ideas. There wasn't a lot that happened. I was surprised in the Christmas episode that Jeff was still dating Carrie, I didn't think they ever mentioned that again. It would have been nice to see them get engaged or maybe Lucille and Art. They could have done more with Brad and maybe a new girlfriend or new girlfriends or Mark getting his first girlfriend. I wonder if they knew they didn't find out until late that it was the last season. Suddenly there's Morgan who we've never seen before, and Jill gets offered a job in another state. Link to comment
readster July 21, 2018 Share July 21, 2018 2 hours ago, andromeda331 said: The last seasons of most shows usually end up being my least favor. Probably because its the last and I end up thinking your wasting an episode on this? It never seems like shows are making the most of their last season. There were some big stuff that happened in season eight with Randy leaving and Marty moving in with his kids. But not so much in a lot of others. They really must have ran out of ideas. There wasn't a lot that happened. I was surprised in the Christmas episode that Jeff was still dating Carrie, I didn't think they ever mentioned that again. It would have been nice to see them get engaged or maybe Lucille and Art. They could have done more with Brad and maybe a new girlfriend or new girlfriends or Mark getting his first girlfriend. I wonder if they knew they didn't find out until late that it was the last season. Suddenly there's Morgan who we've never seen before, and Jill gets offered a job in another state. Yeah, very few shows do well in their final seasons. Few I can remember that made the episodes count in their last seasons were: Cheers, ER, Buffy, Fraiser. I have read several articles and found originals it was just before they went on winter break when they did the negotiations for a season 9 and they offered Tim Allen around 10 million for the season and Particia was going to get 5 and Tim Allen didn't see that as fair and said it became about the money and not the show. So, he turned it down and when they would not match a number with Pat or even Richard Karn, that's when they all agreed it was time to move on. You see that shift start to happen in "A hardware habit to break." After Harry and Dolores leave the show (Both were offered larger parts on Law and Order and Boy Meets World-then killed them off a year later). The show was gone for almost a month and it was announced not a week later that when the show returned, Home Improvement would be ending. Then as soon as they came back in May, Morgan was introduced and you could see them trying to wrap up things as fast as they could with almost all the episodes. Usually shows have a winter break and then do filming after the new year up until the middle of February when sweeps are going and then break for a month to then wrap up the season. However, since there was such a month gap and the announcement of the show ending in April of 99. You could see they were really trying to wrap things up fast. I mean if you look at the first half of the season. Jill was starting to crash before ending graduating. Marty just had a major life change not to mention same with Jeff and Carrie. Jill just had major surgery. Brad was injured and trying to get into college and Mark has really started getting into his movie making more. I also feel they wasted part 2 of The Long Winding Road. It was a clip show and has the original song: "We've got it All" by Kenny Rogers who was a fan of the show recorded specifically for the series. Yet, I felt they could have done more than Tim dropping off Brad and Mark at school because even with commercials, that was one hell of a long ride to school. Plus, we never saw Brad's high school graduation or Mark leaving MS. I mean, those are usually big deals on TV shows. I felt part 2 should have been Brad's graduation with flashbacks and Tim making the decision to move, I think it would have been more powerful. Quote It really made no sense. I wish they had done a little research on how exactly it goes with classes and internships and things with getting a PH.D. Not only would it have made the timeline make more sense without Jill going back and forth from studying to thesis to student therapist to... It also might have given them more ideas for that storyline. It also would have helped if they had shown Jill was good at it. Or getting better after the fiasco with Wendy. Did we even see her help anyone? She had Wendy which she had to pass onto someone else. There were Ronnie's parents she had to pass on since she knew them too. And the first couple asked for a different therapist after she babbled on about some emotional focus therapy. Yet at the end of the series she's getting offered a job in another state? Was it based only on her grades? I don't think we saw any other clients. Yes, and even after everything that happened with Jill's committee chair in the last few episodes. I wanted to go: "What, so he just shrugged his shoulders and the university didn't care?" I can believe that students like Jill happen. In fact, I was told by a professor a few years ago who defended their dissertation and then went on to say how awesome they were and so forth and they didn't sign the final signature for their dissertation completed and never walked because they left for their relative's wedding. They also found out there was a discrepancy from their research piece that didn't get signed off on a few months later because it was apparently bias. Yet, the person then called for a reference a month later and was told: "You aren't officially done, you are missing these two key points." Took them six months to get it all cleared because they found out it wasn't the student who messed up, it was one of the case studies who broke their agreement and the person who knew kept quiet because they thought they lose their job reporting it. Instead they did for NOT reporting it and it took months to clear it all up and the student had to re defend and had to throw out the study on that person. So, with Jill just getting away without any problems and no consequences outside of Heidi and Scott fighting and making up. Was really, really lazy writing. 1 Link to comment
andromeda331 July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 15 hours ago, readster said: Yeah, very few shows do well in their final seasons. Few I can remember that made the episodes count in their last seasons were: Cheers, ER, Buffy, Fraiser. I have read several articles and found originals it was just before they went on winter break when they did the negotiations for a season 9 and they offered Tim Allen around 10 million for the season and Particia was going to get 5 and Tim Allen didn't see that as fair and said it became about the money and not the show. So, he turned it down and when they would not match a number with Pat or even Richard Karn, that's when they all agreed it was time to move on. You see that shift start to happen in "A hardware habit to break." After Harry and Dolores leave the show (Both were offered larger parts on Law and Order and Boy Meets World-then killed them off a year later). The show was gone for almost a month and it was announced not a week later that when the show returned, Home Improvement would be ending. Then as soon as they came back in May, Morgan was introduced and you could see them trying to wrap up things as fast as they could with almost all the episodes. Usually shows have a winter break and then do filming after the new year up until the middle of February when sweeps are going and then break for a month to then wrap up the season. However, since there was such a month gap and the announcement of the show ending in April of 99. You could see they were really trying to wrap things up fast. I mean if you look at the first half of the season. Jill was starting to crash before ending graduating. Marty just had a major life change not to mention same with Jeff and Carrie. Jill just had major surgery. Brad was injured and trying to get into college and Mark has really started getting into his movie making more. I also feel they wasted part 2 of The Long Winding Road. It was a clip show and has the original song: "We've got it All" by Kenny Rogers who was a fan of the show recorded specifically for the series. Yet, I felt they could have done more than Tim dropping off Brad and Mark at school because even with commercials, that was one hell of a long ride to school. Plus, we never saw Brad's high school graduation or Mark leaving MS. I mean, those are usually big deals on TV shows. I felt part 2 should have been Brad's graduation with flashbacks and Tim making the decision to move, I think it would have been more powerful. Frasier and Cheers did a real good job wrapping things up. I wish more shows would. Its the last season. The last time we are ever going to see these people. I'm surprise they didn't do Brad's graduation either. It would have been a real good fit for the clip show. After eight seasons of seeing him and his brothers growing up now one is graduating. Those are really great moments. Its funny that they had big moments things they could have stretched over episodes that would have made the season less up and down with Brad's injury, Jill's surgery, Mark's movie, putting Jeff and Carrie together and Al and Trudy. Then they had episodes that just were boring. Watching Tim spending a weekend writing a book wasn't that fun. I knew the show ended over money but I didn't realize Tim turned down the raise because he wanted Patricia and Richard to get raises too. Which they really do deserve. They both had been on the show from the beginning. All they had to do was give them the money and they'd had kept the show. Its an odd move. But given how weird season 8 was I don't know how much better season 9 would be without Randy and if Zachary did choose to leave. They had a hard time filling season 8 despite having a bunch of big stuff. If Zach stayed then we probably would have gotten him starting college, Jill's patients. and whatever they decided to with Mark. Maybe see Al and Trudy married? Al living without his mother. Of course the way things are going now if Tim didn't have his current show, they'd probably be doing a Home Improvement Revival. Quote Yes, and even after everything that happened with Jill's committee chair in the last few episodes. I wanted to go: "What, so he just shrugged his shoulders and the university didn't care?" I can believe that students like Jill happen. In fact, I was told by a professor a few years ago who defended their dissertation and then went on to say how awesome they were and so forth and they didn't sign the final signature for their dissertation completed and never walked because they left for their relative's wedding. They also found out there was a discrepancy from their research piece that didn't get signed off on a few months later because it was apparently bias. Yet, the person then called for a reference a month later and was told: "You aren't officially done, you are missing these two key points." Took them six months to get it all cleared because they found out it wasn't the student who messed up, it was one of the case studies who broke their agreement and the person who knew kept quiet because they thought they lose their job reporting it. Instead they did for NOT reporting it and it took months to clear it all up and the student had to re defend and had to throw out the study on that person. So, with Jill just getting away without any problems and no consequences outside of Heidi and Scott fighting and making up. Was really, really lazy writing. Its also not really fun to watch. Its not that we want characters always to be suffering or something but conflict. When they mess up or do something wrong we want to see what happens. What consequence they have to face. Tim messes up and has to fix it. Jill should have gotten into some kind of trouble. Maybe it leads her to question therapy or how she'll hand it next time she counsels someone she knows. Its not fun watching Jill break patient confidentiality, watch the fallout of Heidi fighting out and Heidi and Scott fighting and have to deal with no consequence of her own. They don't find out how she knew. Her patient has no idea her doctor told other people what she said. Jill doesn't learn her lesson to keep her mouth shut or feel any real guilt over what she did. Link to comment
readster July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 Quote After eight seasons of seeing him and his brothers growing up now one is graduating. Those are really great moments. Its funny that they had big moments things they could have stretched over episodes that would have made the season less up and down with Brad's injury, Jill's surgery, Mark's movie, putting Jeff and Carrie together and Al and Trudy. Then they had episodes that just were boring. Watching Tim spending a weekend writing a book wasn't that fun. I know, and it was more of an improve show, they said most of the episode was unscripted. They mostly wrote the beginning and end and Tim's dream sequences. You notice in the audience laughing how it sounds more real with Tim's interactions with the regular cast instead of his monologues. The episode was more based on Tim Allen's own book writing and the process in how he got it written. However, they said they just made it over the top, but it was very dry. Just like the season 8 premiere was very uneven and some of the stories were just thrown together. I don't want to keep going back to Brad's knee injury, but considering he could see the carpet was pulled up and so forth. He sped down the stairs like he had to use the bathroom and you get Mark's reaction after they see the original hot rod video before they do Grease Lightning. I wanted to go: "Mark you couldn't see that when you started filming it." Because he was almost proud of it while filming and then after everyone hates it, he says: "Yeah, I hated it too." I wanted to go: "Then why were you so happy about it? Quote I knew the show ended over money but I didn't realize Tim turned down the raise because he wanted Patricia and Richard to get raises too. Which they really do deserve. They both had been on the show from the beginning. All they had to do was give them the money and they'd had kept the show. Its an odd move. But given how weird season 8 was I don't know how much better season 9 would be without Randy and if Zachary did choose to leave. They had a hard time filling season 8 despite having a bunch of big stuff. If Zach stayed then we probably would have gotten him starting college, Jill's patients. and whatever they decided to with Mark. Maybe see Al and Trudy married? Al living without his mother. Of course the way things are going now if Tim didn't have his current show, they'd probably be doing a Home Improvement Revival. Considering how much ABC pissed off Tim Allen with the cancelling of LMS, which let's face it was more over politics than money. Though money did play a good part in it (plus season 6 was really, really bad). You do wonder what season 9 would have been because even the long time writers on the show did admit they were going to have Jill and Brad originally graduate together, but they didn't get to it because they basically had 6 episodes to wrap up the series. However, apparently they just threw it to the way side of the original outlines. I also wonder if Zach would have left the series they wouldn't had sat him down and gone: "Don't say you are doing it for school and then go film a bunch, of really, really bad movies because you get to work basically a month and then given a year's paycheck." Link to comment
andromeda331 July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 8 hours ago, readster said: I know, and it was more of an improve show, they said most of the episode was unscripted. They mostly wrote the beginning and end and Tim's dream sequences. You notice in the audience laughing how it sounds more real with Tim's interactions with the regular cast instead of his monologues. The episode was more based on Tim Allen's own book writing and the process in how he got it written. However, they said they just made it over the top, but it was very dry. Just like the season 8 premiere was very uneven and some of the stories were just thrown together. I don't want to keep going back to Brad's knee injury, but considering he could see the carpet was pulled up and so forth. He sped down the stairs like he had to use the bathroom and you get Mark's reaction after they see the original hot rod video before they do Grease Lightning. I wanted to go: "Mark you couldn't see that when you started filming it." Because he was almost proud of it while filming and then after everyone hates it, he says: "Yeah, I hated it too." I wanted to go: "Then why were you so happy about it? It was very dry and it wasn't really funny. Or fun. Much like many of the episodes. The first one of the season wasn't fun or funny. Dragging someone off on a trip he doesn't want to go on isn't fun to watch. Watching someone with writer's block could be funny but this one wasn't. About Brad's knee injury, that's okay. I keep going back Jill and how much she drives me crazy. Some you just can't let go. Some make no sense. There is no way Brad shouldn't have seen the carpet was all rolled up. That's not something you miss or looks like just regular carpet. Even if your running your going to noticed the carpet was rolled up. It should have been something else. Like maybe something left on one of the steps or something so the fall looks like a fall instead of Brad looking like an idiot for not noticing that. Also, he knew Tool Time was filming and he had to know what they were filming right? Tim would have been talking all about it before they came and the night before. So it really shouldn't be a surprise. Quote Considering how much ABC pissed off Tim Allen with the cancelling of LMS, which let's face it was more over politics than money. Though money did play a good part in it (plus season 6 was really, really bad). You do wonder what season 9 would have been because even the long time writers on the show did admit they were going to have Jill and Brad originally graduate together, but they didn't get to it because they basically had 6 episodes to wrap up the series. However, apparently they just threw it to the way side of the original outlines. I also wonder if Zach would have left the series they wouldn't had sat him down and gone: "Don't say you are doing it for school and then go film a bunch, of really, really bad movies because you get to work basically a month and then given a year's paycheck." They could have done that or even worked out time for him to be off. They could have filmed all of his scenes or maybe a bunch of college ones to add into the episodes and other times just mention he was busy with college. It wouldn't have been weird to not have Brad in every episode. He could have earned his paycheck from HI and still auditioned for movies and filmed them. Studios have been able to work with actors before. Tim was doing movies too. It makes sense as an actor to basically hit while the iron is hot. You just don't know how long its going to last. I really think to go another season they would have needed Brad. He'd bring new material with starting college, playing for a college team, going to his games, watch his games on TV, and the whole college experience while Tim and Jill adjust to one (well two) kids in college and one home. I don't think the show would have worked with Brad and Randy both gone it. Seeing Jill and Brad graduate together would have been really cool. It really isn't often that you get to see a parent and their kid graduating together. They might even had gotten on the news or an article written about him. People love that stuff. Link to comment
andromeda331 July 22, 2018 Share July 22, 2018 9 hours ago, readster said: you get Mark's reaction after they see the original hot rod video before they do Grease Lightning. I wanted to go: "Mark you couldn't see that when you started filming it." Because he was almost proud of it while filming and then after everyone hates it, he says: "Yeah, I hated it too." I wanted to go: "Then why were you so happy about it? Yeah, that makes no sense. If Mark hated the film too then why was he so happy and so hurt by everyone's reaction? That only makes sense if he liked the film. I'm not sure why he thought his dad would like it. The film was badly edited and made no sense. If he wasn't sure what his dad wanted he could have asked. He wanted something about the hot rod. That's not what Mark did. Why would Tim be expecting that? He's seen Marks other films and the one he did for Brad. None were like this one. Tim or Jill could have explained to Mark that when your working for someone else you have to produce what they want. Not what you want. That works for your films. When you have a client your job is do their vision. It would have been a good learning experience. There is a different from filming your own stories and filming other peoples. Directors have to deal with that all the time. It gives Mark some experience in that and if he's going to be a film director that's where he's going to have to do that to get paid. Especially in the early years. Link to comment
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