All Episodes Talk: Grunt

[readster]

I feel like the last 3 seasons, you want to pick on Jill, but after seeing Grease Lightning with the finalization of the second hot rod. I mean Jill saying: "Repeat after me, I will NEVER do another hot rod again!" I mean dear God! Could she have sounded any more hateful? I don't get why Jill thought the hot rod were such a waste of time and money. I mean after Tim finished the first one back in season 3, she was happy for him. Even shocked when he sold it a year later to the car collecting pizza entrepreneur. Yet, she got upset as soon as Tim and Brad were given the new one and Jill was; "Oh no, not again!" Even in the season 7 finale when Tim revealed he had to start all over again because the color was now different. Everyone from Jill to Mark hit their heads and were like: "Oh no!" Can't a man have a hobby? Can't he enjoy something his father was passionate about and that Tim has been loving since he was in high school? Why did Jill and later the boys act like they wished the cars were just disappear? It's like the spouse who hates if their better half is into say models and then yet collects M&Ms collectibles, but then says their hobby/collection is crap and call them a little kid? Why can't someone just enjoy something?

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 1:06 PM, readster said:

Yeah, I even remember when the episode first aired that Tim, Al and Heidi were getting it all set up. I was like: "When and how did he do that?" Of course, it was an excuse to get rid of Al's old apartment set and put in a new place and they were working on getting Al and Trudy together, so made sense they were getting a house. However, a 2 story house in the late 90s would be running in the $225K as the Market was doing so well then. So, I"m going to think that Al was paying almost the same as his apartment or a little more. So, it was working on a major money, plus what did Tim just give it to Al and Trudy or did Trudy buy Tim out when they moved?

They never mentioned it. You know its funny you mention that. Al says in the episode when Tim buys the Hardware store that he's going to have some expenses coming up. He doesn't say it but meaning marrying Trudy. But once he married Trudy wouldn't he sell his house and move in with her? She lived in a mansion plus it sounded like it was her family home.  It would make more sense for him to sell or rent out his place and move in with her. Which he would have more money. But Al's money doesn't make much sense either. Al doesn't spend a lot of money and seems to have worked pretty steady. He should have a lot of money savings given his age when we see him. He never goes on big trips, drives a station wagon (which does have sentimental reasons), and wears mostly the same flannel shirts. There's nothing about him that suggests he blows through his money. Yet he's living in an apartment. He doesn't even think of moving out up season seven when he decides he wants to rent from Tim and Jill at that point he's almost forty. Where does all his money go?

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:01 AM, readster said:

I feel like the last 3 seasons, you want to pick on Jill, but after seeing Grease Lightning with the finalization of the second hot rod. I mean Jill saying: "Repeat after me, I will NEVER do another hot rod again!" I mean dear God! Could she have sounded any more hateful? I don't get why Jill thought the hot rod were such a waste of time and money. I mean after Tim finished the first one back in season 3, she was happy for him. Even shocked when he sold it a year later to the car collecting pizza entrepreneur. Yet, she got upset as soon as Tim and Brad were given the new one and Jill was; "Oh no, not again!" Even in the season 7 finale when Tim revealed he had to start all over again because the color was now different. Everyone from Jill to Mark hit their heads and were like: "Oh no!" Can't a man have a hobby? Can't he enjoy something his father was passionate about and that Tim has been loving since he was in high school? Why did Jill and later the boys act like they wished the cars were just disappear? It's like the spouse who hates if their better half is into say models and then yet collects M&Ms collectibles, but then says their hobby/collection is crap and call them a little kid? Why can't someone just enjoy something?

She sounded really hateful when she said that. So Tim isn't allowed to have a hobby? He's busy, having fun and working to restore cars. What is wrong with that? He built two cars up from scratch and loves cars. Plus they weren't hurting for a money. It took him about two years to build the first one up and finish. Oh, right Jill doesn't like it so it doesn't matter.  I'm still not sure why she was still so upset when he sold the first hot rod given how she was always complaining about it. You'd think she'd be thrilled. Nope she was outraged. Brad I get since he helped worked on it with his dad. You don't want to spend your life with cars, sports and other stuff like that then you don't marry someone who loves those things. She's been told so many times and in so many ways why its important to Tim. His father was into cars, the car his father was working on when he died and what happened to that car, Wilson explained it her way back in the first season using the reference of them becoming one. But none of that ever really sinks in or sticks with her. Jill just got worse and worse as the seasons went by with the last three having her at the worse.  

[readster]

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But Al's money doesn't make much sense either. Al doesn't spend a lot of money and seems to have worked pretty steady. He should have a lot of money savings given his age when we see him. He never goes on big trips, drives a station wagon (which does have sentimental reasons), and wears mostly the same flannel shirts. There's nothing about him that suggests he blows through his money. Yet he's living in an apartment. He doesn't even think of moving out up season seven when he decides he wants to rent from Tim and Jill at that point he's almost forty. Where does all his money go?

Goes back to all the years they kept saying Al wasn't getting paid much for Tool Time, which at that point, you think he would have quit if he wasn't making that much money. Plus, as it was revealed in the anniversary show and even later in the series. Al was working pretty steadily right out of the military. Being in the Navy most likely paid for all of his licensing and he was probably in the mechanic section of the Navy, especially being stationed in Nevada. Yet, Tim always acted like Al was getting squat for money and yet, Al had money and Tim was making enough to pay for a family of 5 and send his wife back to school full time for almost 5 years. Yet, Al apparently was being paid minimum? I don't think so. I got that Al couldn't pay out $80K for the hardware store, because that was a lot of money, but I'm sure he could have asked Trudy who at that point in their relationship, would have bought the store in a second. 

 

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She sounded really hateful when she said that. So Tim isn't allowed to have a hobby? He's busy, having fun and working to restore cars. What is wrong with that? He built two cars up from scratch and loves cars. Plus they weren't hurting for a money. It took him about two years to build the first one up and finish. Oh, right Jill doesn't like it so it doesn't matter.  I'm still not sure why she was still so upset when he sold the first hot rod given how she was always complaining about it. You'd think she'd be thrilled. Nope she was outraged.

It was her channeling Fred again, because there was so much that Lillian loved, but Fred hated. yet as we found out, Fred loved collecting military collectibles and spent a lot of time in his Den either reliving his glory days or setting up things from the military. So, why didn't Jill get the fact, that for her mother, that was quiet time for her. I'm sure being married for over 50 years and the grouchy guy that Fred Patterson was. I'm sure Lillian looked forward to not seeing Fred for hours and having some "me" time. Like when Jill admitted to Al that she squirted oil under the hot rod and it kept Tim away from her for days. You think she would love it since she as so obsessed with: "I want to graduate!" yet always took her summers off instead of taking summer classes to graduate faster, she didn't. Another thing, I did some research of graduate classes in the 90s vs today (since I'm finishing up a doctorate myself in 2019). Jill in 1994 as a full time student and back in a masters program would have at the least taken 13 hours and in Michigan needed to have 30 hours past a undergraduate to get a masters. So, even with summer off, would have finished her masters by 1996. Doctorate was another 40 hours, if she would have done summer classes, she would have been done in 1998. Even with delays to her dissertation being accepted or not. Because professors want their students to graduate too, so they can move on with their lives and you can't take longer than 7 years in a program especially for masters to doctorate since 1990. So, really Jill had to finish in 1999 or the university would have told her two things: "Get done this year or get out!" 

  Same goes when Tim told Jill that Harry's Hardware was going to close down. Her replie: "Oooo, we are going to save a ton of money." Then when Tim was being serious she was: "Wait what?" If Jill was such a good "friend" to Delores she would have known that her forcing Harry to sell and move out of state was a real possibity. Especially when she told them at the party that her asthma was becoming too much and why the needed to go to dry weather. Not that I didn't get Jill with her: "how many version of a power drill do you need?" Because even Randy argued that perfectly with Bud in the previous season. However, Harry and Delores were old time friends, Tim and Binford kept them in business and Harry pretty much providing for the family. Then she acts like Tim blows his entire paycheck on them all the time. Especially, when so many Big Box stores were putting local businesses out of business. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by readster

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, readster said:

Goes back to all the years they kept saying Al wasn't getting paid much for Tool Time, which at that point, you think he would have quit if he wasn't making that much money. Plus, as it was revealed in the anniversary show and even later in the series. Al was working pretty steadily right out of the military. Being in the Navy most likely paid for all of his licensing and he was probably in the mechanic section of the Navy, especially being stationed in Nevada. Yet, Tim always acted like Al was getting squat for money and yet, Al had money and Tim was making enough to pay for a family of 5 and send his wife back to school full time for almost 5 years. Yet, Al apparently was being paid minimum? I don't think so. I got that Al couldn't pay out $80K for the hardware store, because that was a lot of money, but I'm sure he could have asked Trudy who at that point in their relationship, would have bought the store in a second. 

It really does which still makes no sense. Al should have been making decent money from the show and it should have been increasing as the years when by every time his contract came up. Yes, all of his licensing should have been taking care of in the navy and he should have been paid well and had money when he left the Navy. When my dad left the army in the 70s he had a pretty decent amount saved up (that he and my mom went and blew on a really nice car). Al should have had it from then and continued to work steady since then. He had no real expenses aside from rent, food, utilities, gas, car insurance and car repair which may be still even lower if Al did all the work on the station wagon himself. 80 K is a lot of money so he would unlikely have that amount. But he should have been able to put down a really decent down payment on a house and given he lived alone he could have easily been able to pay off the rest of it by the time he was forty. I don't know why he couldn't have asked Trudy to buy the hardware store considering he was thinking of proposing. She would have done so and it wouldn't have sounded weird. They were about to start a life together.

 

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t was her channeling Fred again, because there was so much that Lillian loved, but Fred hated. yet as we found out, Fred loved collecting military collectibles and spent a lot of time in his Den either reliving his glory days or setting up things from the military. So, why didn't Jill get the fact, that for her mother, that was quiet time for her. I'm sure being married for over 50 years and the grouchy guy that Fred Patterson was. I'm sure Lillian looked forward to not seeing Fred for hours and having some "me" time. Like when Jill admitted to Al that she squirted oil under the hot rod and it kept Tim away from her for days. You think she would love it since she as so obsessed with: "I want to graduate!" yet always took her summers off instead of taking summer classes to graduate faster, she didn't. Another thing, I did some research of graduate classes in the 90s vs today (since I'm finishing up a doctorate myself in 2019). Jill in 1994 as a full time student and back in a masters program would have at the least taken 13 hours and in Michigan needed to have 30 hours past a undergraduate to get a masters. So, even with summer off, would have finished her masters by 1996. Doctorate was another 40 hours, if she would have done summer classes, she would have been done in 1998. Even with delays to her dissertation being accepted or not. Because professors want their students to graduate too, so they can move on with their lives and you can't take longer than 7 years in a program especially for masters to doctorate since 1990. So, really Jill had to finish in 1999 or the university would have told her two things: "Get done this year or get out!" 

It still amazes me that Jill never realizes how much she's like her father. She doesn't like any of Tim's hobbies or interests the only difference is unlike her father she was unable to get Tim to stop. Lillian quit so many things she loved because her husband didn't like them and Jill really isn't that different. You know she'd be thrilled if Tim gave up his cars, tools, sports and everything else he liked that she didn't. Which is crappy. Also crappy is complaining about that stuff and then admitting to squirting oil in the hot rod to get him to leave her alone. If he's working on the hot rod he's leaving you alone Jill. I don't care if your the happiest couple in the world no one enjoys spending every second together, you still enjoy being buy yourself doing your hobbies. I'm sure Jill enjoys a few hours reading by herself and/or listening to opera. Or being left alone to study and write her papers. 

 I wondered about the Doctorate she seemed to be in school for a really long time. No summer classes which still is weird to me for someone who has a family. But also she said she would have to take some undergrad courses first before going to graduate school. She spends season four to season eight in college not finishing until the end. There's zero signs she's working fast to finish sooner or that she's even expecting to finish in three or four years. She talks about classes but doesn't come off like she's taking that many. It seems more like a class here and there. I know college classes are set up differently but never seems like she's going to two or three classes a day. More like one and then another class in a day or two.

[readster]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really does which still makes no sense. Al should have been making decent money from the show and it should have been increasing as the years when by every time his contract came up. Yes, all of his licensing should have been taking care of in the navy and he should have been paid well and had money when he left the Navy. When my dad left the army in the 70s he had a pretty decent amount saved up (that he and my mom went and blew on a really nice car). Al should have had it from then and continued to work steady since then. He had no real expenses aside from rent, food, utilities, gas, car insurance and car repair which may be still even lower if Al did all the work on the station wagon himself. 80 K is a lot of money so he would unlikely have that amount. But he should have been able to put down a really decent down payment on a house and given he lived alone he could have easily been able to pay off the rest of it by the time he was forty. I don't know why he couldn't have asked Trudy to buy the hardware store considering he was thinking of proposing. She would have done so and it wouldn't have sounded weird. They were about to start a life together.

 

It still amazes me that Jill never realizes how much she's like her father. She doesn't like any of Tim's hobbies or interests the only difference is unlike her father she was unable to get Tim to stop. Lillian quit so many things she loved because her husband didn't like them and Jill really isn't that different. You know she'd be thrilled if Tim gave up his cars, tools, sports and everything else he liked that she didn't. Which is crappy. Also crappy is complaining about that stuff and then admitting to squirting oil in the hot rod to get him to leave her alone. If he's working on the hot rod he's leaving you alone Jill. I don't care if your the happiest couple in the world no one enjoys spending every second together, you still enjoy being buy yourself doing your hobbies. I'm sure Jill enjoys a few hours reading by herself and/or listening to opera. Or being left alone to study and write her papers. 

 I wondered about the Doctorate she seemed to be in school for a really long time. No summer classes which still is weird to me for someone who has a family. But also she said she would have to take some undergrad courses first before going to graduate school. She spends season four to season eight in college not finishing until the end. There's zero signs she's working fast to finish sooner or that she's even expecting to finish in three or four years. She talks about classes but doesn't come off like she's taking that many. It seems more like a class here and there. I know college classes are set up differently but never seems like she's going to two or three classes a day. More like one and then another class in a day or two.

Not to mention the fact, she could also be taking night classes, because some graduate classes aren't given during the day due to UNDERGRADUATE classes that professors or associates have to teach during the day. Plus in the 90s about 40% of graduate students worked full time. Now, almost 78% of graduate students work full time and the use of online courses and night classes have been God sends for people trying to get graduate degrees and have families at home. Yet, just proves the writers never cracked open a magazine or called a local university to see how REAL colleges worked. Plus, yes, switching to a new major after being out for school for Jill for say, a decade. Yes, she would have to take undergraduate courses, but she would have completed them in a year and a half. However, Jill stresses about being "too busy" or needing more time to herself to get things done.

   I don't get what Jill would have hoped if Tim did say give up: Sports or cars. He was NEVER going to give up tools in any shape or form. I do believe if he he never would have sold the original hot rod, he would have still been working on it to a varying degree. I could have seen him a few years later finding his old car and getting it right away. Another thing is, Tim was basically GIVEN the second hot rod and with the original one with the frame I'm sure he paid probably a whopping $50 for it. Even with building it from the ground up and having everyone from friends and his neighbors finding the needed parts. Tim saved probably close to $3K in the first two years and up to about $8K on the second one since he was basically given it. So, I never, ever got why Jill kept acting like the hot rods were this big money black hole, because seriously they weren't. I got the home improvement jobs because nine out of ten times, more things got broke than fixed. Then you had the ones that Al helped with that came out 100% awesome. So, if I take over what was paid by Binford and what it usually costs to keep a house of 5 going for it how it sounded 18 years they lived there and the fact the house was paid off thanks to John Binford. The Taylors saved around $68K in expenses in the 8 years the show was on. I'm sorry, but if I had anywhere near half of that number in the 6 years I have lived in my two story house with a family of 3. My wife would be dancing around the block and I be sleeping, much, much better at night. With Jill, she acted like they were one month away from going bankrupt or were spending 3 X more money then they had coming in. I'm sorry, Jill's college in the mid to late 90s was probably costing close to $4K-8K a year. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, readster said:

Not to mention the fact, she could also be taking night classes, because some graduate classes aren't given during the day due to UNDERGRADUATE classes that professors or associates have to teach during the day. Plus in the 90s about 40% of graduate students worked full time. Now, almost 78% of graduate students work full time and the use of online courses and night classes have been God sends for people trying to get graduate degrees and have families at home. Yet, just proves the writers never cracked open a magazine or called a local university to see how REAL colleges worked. Plus, yes, switching to a new major after being out for school for Jill for say, a decade. Yes, she would have to take undergraduate courses, but she would have completed them in a year and a half. However, Jill stresses about being "too busy" or needing more time to herself to get things done.

Yeah, the writers clearly had no idea how colleges work. Or how it really works when you are a parent going back to school. Your going year around in hopes of getting done sooner to get out there working. You are also still working. Because unless your a millionaire you still need to support your family. At least if Jill was working, along with going to college and taking care of her family then it would have made more sense when she's stressed out, worrying about getting done, and worrying about whether its worth it to spend the money to go back to college. Or come up with reasons for it taking longer. Like money. Having to put off a semester to save up money or something that comes up that wipes out that money or something. Instead they have her complaining about being too busy and stressing when she's not working, not worried at all about money (unless its something Tim wanted), and taking summers off. For five years she's going to classes maybe twice a week? She has all the free time to study, write her papers and really just taking her sweet time. There's nothing really keeping her busy. And as the years go by the kids need her less so she actually has more free time. They just don't bother to ever show why she is so busy when we don't really ever see it.  
 

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I don't get what Jill would have hoped if Tim did say give up: Sports or cars. He was NEVER going to give up tools in any shape or form. I do believe if he he never would have sold the original hot rod, he would have still been working on it to a varying degree. I could have seen him a few years later finding his old car and getting it right away. Another thing is, Tim was basically GIVEN the second hot rod and with the original one with the frame I'm sure he paid probably a whopping $50 for it. Even with building it from the ground up and having everyone from friends and his neighbors finding the needed parts. Tim saved probably close to $3K in the first two years and up to about $8K on the second one since he was basically given it. So, I never, ever got why Jill kept acting like the hot rods were this big money black hole, because seriously they weren't. I got the home improvement jobs because nine out of ten times, more things got broke than fixed. Then you had the ones that Al helped with that came out 100% awesome. 

 

I don't either. I do find it hard to believe that he sold the first hot rod. He loved it so much. But your right if he still had it he would be messing with it. Going back, changing his mind on stuff. It would be never ending. Also, its not really surprising after he built the first one that he would want to try and see if he could built another one from a different year. Different car to see if he could do it again. He's never going to stop. He'd probably be working hard in his last days to finish his last hot rod before he dies. He just really loves it. The price of the car parts could go either way given the years he was building. But he does always seem to have friends and neighbors finding the parts for him. In real life it would depend some early year car parts go for a lot and others are really cheap. It just depends on how many they are and/or the person selling it. My dad used to always find parts in the junkyard or sometimes buy a car from the period he was looking for that was run down but just for the car parts. He'd get what he needed and sell off the rest usually making back what he spent. Of course he focused more on cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. I wonder what Tim would think of Ebay if anyone ever showed him car parts for selling on Ebay. But I still refused to believe the hot rod costed more then college classes. No way. 

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So, if I take over what was paid by Binford and what it usually costs to keep a house of 5 going for it how it sounded 18 years they lived there and the fact the house was paid off thanks to John Binford. The Taylors saved around $68K in expenses in the 8 years the show was on. I'm sorry, but if I had anywhere near half of that number in the 6 years I have lived in my two story house with a family of 3. My wife would be dancing around the block and I be sleeping, much, much better at night. With Jill, she acted like they were one month away from going bankrupt or were spending 3 X more money then they had coming in. I'm sorry, Jill's college in the mid to late 90s was probably costing close to $4K-8K a year. 

 Who wouldn't be? My mom would have been dancing around the block. It would be a great and a great relief. That's lot of extra money that could be used towards college or put into savings or retirement. I can't imagine why anyone would be upset to be married to someone who had skills that could save them money. That's a good thing! My dad saved us tons of money by working on all the cars himself, he replaced and fixed them all and my mom was thrilled! It was one less expense! When cars break down or need repairs that can cost a lot. She really had it good and its like she doesn't even realize it. She was able to not work for about nine or ten years and stay home and take care of their kids. Then able to not work for five years while she goes to college. When ever she brings up money and tries to sound like she's being the sane one it doesn't work because they are living really well. Even later when she tries to use their kids college it doesn't work because Brad's mostly likely getting a scholarship and so is Randy with his Costa Rica trip. The only one left is Mark and he's four years away from college so there was still plenty of time for him to try for one or for them to be able to pay for it since their not paying for Brad and Randy's or Jill's anymore. If anything their move to Indiana would be a drop in their income at least for two or three years while she starts out in the therapy practice and Tim finds place for a shop and gets it up and going.

[readster]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She was able to not work for about nine or ten years and stay home and take care of their kids. Then able to not work for five years while she goes to college. When ever she brings up money and tries to sound like she's being the sane one it doesn't work because they are living really well. Even later when she tries to use their kids college it doesn't work because Brad's mostly likely getting a scholarship and so is Randy with his Costa Rica trip. The only one left is Mark and he's four years away from college so there was still plenty of time for him to try for one or for them to be able to pay for it since their not paying for Brad and Randy's or Jill's anymore. If anything their move to Indiana would be a drop in their income at least for two or three years while she starts out in the therapy practice and Tim finds place for a shop and gets it up and going.

In my mind's eye, I see that after they found a plot for the house to settle in. Brad pretty much was focused on going to UCLA and Randy pretty much got back to say goodbye to Lauren again, then spend his senior year trying to get himself together, and most likely got a scholarship or two and left a year later. While, Mark completely in a new school district, found his niche for filming and later went to UCLA due to Brad's soccer career there and the filming department For Jill, I see having wacky hijinks along with a few other season shrinks and Tim getting deals with Indy drivers while he set up his shop. Going from Tim "the toolman" Taylor to Tim "the car man" Taylor. With various visits from Al and Trudy to get the house working again.

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, readster said:

In my mind's eye, I see that after they found a plot for the house to settle in. Brad pretty much was focused on going to UCLA and Randy pretty much got back to say goodbye to Lauren again, then spend his senior year trying to get himself together, and most likely got a scholarship or two and left a year later. While, Mark completely in a new school district, found his niche for filming and later went to UCLA due to Brad's soccer career there and the filming department For Jill, I see having wacky hijinks along with a few other season shrinks and Tim getting deals with Indy drivers while he set up his shop. Going from Tim "the toolman" Taylor to Tim "the car man" Taylor. With various visits from Al and Trudy to get the house working again.

I wonder how hard it was for Tim to go from Tim the Tool man Taylor to Tim the car man. He loved being the Toolman and loved doing the show. I could see it being really hard for him watching Tool Time or maybe he won't because he can't watch it now that he's not on it. Or watching yelling at Al, calling Al trying to help him or unable to let it go that he's no longer on the show. Or getting upset when Al gets an assistant. Its a big change for Tim. He'd worked for Binford for decades. I could also see Randy and Lauren trying the long distance thing while trying to apply to all the same colleges. But maybe break up? Maybe not get back together until they go college? Or maybe stay together. With email, and the coming Facebook and other ways to keep in touch and driving up and down to see each other. I love the idea of Mark finding his niche. Its sometimes easier in a new city, and district. Back in Detroit he was always just the youngest Taylor it would be great to see him get involved in filming and make friends and date. I wonder how it would be for Mark after Brad left. They became really close after Randy left and now he's gone. Probably he and Randy would come close. Jill we'd definitely see a lot more wacky hijinks with other shrinks and her clients. But it'll still be a couple years before they both get up and running. Buying land and hooking the house up. Buying a garage and get it up and running.  

[readster]

It's funny, now with the last few episodes airing of the series again. The shift to Morgan showing up and how Bud thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. I don't get it at all, Bud does a complete 360 of all the character work done on him for almost 4 years. I get Robinson was busy with other projects, but his return just seems off in the last few episodes. First, with the entire dumping of Binford products. I get that the cheese company had been a sponsor for the last two seasons of the show. Mostly due to Tim's involvement in the car club, however when you are a big company like Binford that was built from the ground up. To then just start pulling your own product to "make room" for other stuff. That shows signs you are in financial problems. Also, hearing that there was a Board of Directors at Binford, just what snake oil did Morgan deal to get them all to think he was so great? We know that his copying and Tim, Al and Heidi all getting up and quitting. That's like the employee you hire because they seem good on paper and seem "nice" and then they turn into some type of overlord. Then when they ruin everything, you look back and go: "Well, actually things were bad with this person, but these other people were propping them up. I get that Bud propped up Morgan (why, well bad writing). However, who else at Binford thought he be a suitable replacement for Bud and why would they put some young kid in charge of a company that had been around for over 30 years at that point?

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, readster said:

It's funny, now with the last few episodes airing of the series again. The shift to Morgan showing up and how Bud thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. I don't get it at all, Bud does a complete 360 of all the character work done on him for almost 4 years. I get Robinson was busy with other projects, but his return just seems off in the last few episodes. First, with the entire dumping of Binford products. I get that the cheese company had been a sponsor for the last two seasons of the show. Mostly due to Tim's involvement in the car club, however when you are a big company like Binford that was built from the ground up. To then just start pulling your own product to "make room" for other stuff. That shows signs you are in financial problems. Also, hearing that there was a Board of Directors at Binford, just what snake oil did Morgan deal to get them all to think he was so great? We know that his copying and Tim, Al and Heidi all getting up and quitting. That's like the employee you hire because they seem good on paper and seem "nice" and then they turn into some type of overlord. Then when they ruin everything, you look back and go: "Well, actually things were bad with this person, but these other people were propping them up. I get that Bud propped up Morgan (why, well bad writing). However, who else at Binford thought he be a suitable replacement for Bud and why would they put some young kid in charge of a company that had been around for over 30 years at that point?

None of the decisions Bud makes in the last few episodes make any sense. I know they wanted to put Tim into a position to quit but it still makes no sense. Morgan would have had to have blackmail pictures on Bud and the entire board to get the job he had. Which I don't see happening. There was nothing about Morgan that made you think that anyone would listen to him. Unless Morgan really provided himself by doing awesome with ratings on other show, then maybe. But all of his ideas were crap. Basically stealing ideas from other shows. I can't see any board member thinking Morgan was going to do anything but sink the show and take their profits with it. What exactly was on his resume? Bud's plan to dump all products that weren't Binford? That's stupid. There's no way anyone would do that unless they were replacing them with newly Binford products. Plus yes Binford and Tool Time would be getting paid to feature other tools or with commercials of those tools. Your right they only mentioned the cheese company but there's no way that Sears, Craftman tools and other brands wouldn't be running commercials during a Tool show! Most of the viewers are going to be their target customers. Every decision Bud and Morgan made from that point would only make the Tool Time audience think the show's going down in flames and about to cancel. Pulling all other tools, drastically changing the show from Tools to Jerry Springer fight, learning that fight was staged (I know they never said the audience found out but that kind of stuff gets out). All signs the show is doing bad in the ratings and is going to be canceled in the next few months. Which until that point makes no sense given how popular the show was, all of the great guest stars they've had and on location places? Maybe if they had instead gone with a new up and coming show that was killing it in the ratings? Something to give a better reason for things to be going down hill at Binford. 

[readster]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

None of the decisions Bud makes in the last few episodes make any sense. I know they wanted to put Tim into a position to quit but it still makes no sense. Morgan would have had to have blackmail pictures on Bud and the entire board to get the job he had. Which I don't see happening. There was nothing about Morgan that made you think that anyone would listen to him. Unless Morgan really provided himself by doing awesome with ratings on other show, then maybe. But all of his ideas were crap. Basically stealing ideas from other shows. I can't see any board member thinking Morgan was going to do anything but sink the show and take their profits with it. What exactly was on his resume? Bud's plan to dump all products that weren't Binford? That's stupid. There's no way anyone would do that unless they were replacing them with newly Binford products. Plus yes Binford and Tool Time would be getting paid to feature other tools or with commercials of those tools. Your right they only mentioned the cheese company but there's no way that Sears, Craftman tools and other brands wouldn't be running commercials during a Tool show! Most of the viewers are going to be their target customers. Every decision Bud and Morgan made from that point would only make the Tool Time audience think the show's going down in flames and about to cancel. Pulling all other tools, drastically changing the show from Tools to Jerry Springer fight, learning that fight was staged (I know they never said the audience found out but that kind of stuff gets out). All signs the show is doing bad in the ratings and is going to be canceled in the next few months. Which until that point makes no sense given how popular the show was, all of the great guest stars they've had and on location places? Maybe if they had instead gone with a new up and coming show that was killing it in the ratings? Something to give a better reason for things to be going down hill at Binford. 

Right even when Morgan said that later they would get back to "tool stuff", what was he trying to do? Binford was a tool company, yes they also were into other things such as car waxes, paints, ect. Much like say: Sears, Lowes, Menards, Ace, ect. but what was he trying to accomplish? What was Binford or even Bud thinking with Morgan? Were they trying to get more footing in the entertainment business? Were they trying to just get more notice for something other than tools? None of made any sense and while the writers were basically trying to wrap up the show in less than 7 episodes with everything. It's like how the Mary Tyler Moore Show had it where everyone, but the news reporter who was always screwing up on the show was fired but them. The difference is, MTMS had a full year to wrap things up and did it well, same situation, all of a sudden some new big shot comes in, doesn't know anything and then fires everyone but the moron who SHOULD have been fired. 

   I get people like Morgan exist and come strutting in like they are the messiah, but after they make the situation all worst you just want to go: "You knew who they were, why the hell didn't you stop them?"

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:27 AM, readster said:

Right even when Morgan said that later they would get back to "tool stuff", what was he trying to do? Binford was a tool company, yes they also were into other things such as car waxes, paints, ect. Much like say: Sears, Lowes, Menards, Ace, ect. but what was he trying to accomplish? What was Binford or even Bud thinking with Morgan? Were they trying to get more footing in the entertainment business? Were they trying to just get more notice for something other than tools? None of made any sense and while the writers were basically trying to wrap up the show in less than 7 episodes with everything. It's like how the Mary Tyler Moore Show had it where everyone, but the news reporter who was always screwing up on the show was fired but them. The difference is, MTMS had a full year to wrap things up and did it well, same situation, all of a sudden some new big shot comes in, doesn't know anything and then fires everyone but the moron who SHOULD have been fired. 

   I get people like Morgan exist and come strutting in like they are the messiah, but after they make the situation all worst you just want to go: "You knew who they were, why the hell didn't you stop them?"

I don't know because that idea is basically taking Binford down to one brand tools instead of expanding it. Which is the wrong way to go Morgan. Plus in doing so it jeopardizes their relationships with other brands who pay for their commercials and guest stars from those fields who come on the show which is good ratings. The only way Morgan makes sense was if he was a young hot shot that shot to the top which clearly he isn't or if he has blackmail pictures which doesn't work because he'd have to have them on Bud and the entire board. People like Morgan do exist but there's usually a reason as to why the board trusts him. They never gave the reason for it. MTM did a better job because they set it up better. I know they didn't know going into season eight it would be the last. But when they did. They should have set up the rest of the episodes for it. Instead of putting it in the last few episode. Plus it might have helped other episodes like the hardware store. It would make more sense for Al and Tim (and Jill) to be hesitate at buying the store if things were going bad at Binford. Trouble at Binford could have made the scenes with Jill worry about money in the last season at least make more sense.  Tim and Jill could have been worried about buying a store when things are bad or uncertain because Tim is the breadwinner of the family. Even if Tim gets a job somewhere else or open a shop that's going to be a drop in their income for awhile. Al not willing to buy the store either if he's not sure he has a future at Binford. Instead of him unnecessarily worrying about Trudy buy it for him for sexual favors he could worry about her buying the store when he's not sure if he'll remain at Binford. If not he's not sure where he'll go and doesn't want to get locked into the hardware store full time because he's not sure where he's going to be working next or if he gets an offer that would mean more hours then would allow him to work in the store or in a different city.  

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know because that idea is basically taking Binford down to one brand tools instead of expanding it. Which is the wrong way to go Morgan. Plus in doing so it jeopardizes their relationships with other brands who pay for their commercials and guest stars from those fields who come on the show which is good ratings. The only way Morgan makes sense was if he was a young hot shot that shot to the top which clearly he isn't or if he has blackmail pictures which doesn't work because he'd have to have them on Bud and the entire board. People like Morgan do exist but there's usually a reason as to why the board trusts him. They never gave the reason for it. MTM did a better job because they set it up better. I know they didn't know going into season eight it would be the last. But when they did. They should have set up the rest of the episodes for it. Instead of putting it in the last few episode. Plus it might have helped other episodes like the hardware store. It would make more sense for Al and Tim (and Jill) to be hesitate at buying the store if things were going bad at Binford. Trouble at Binford could have made the scenes with Jill worry about money in the last season at least make more sense.  Tim and Jill could have been worried about buying a store when things are bad or uncertain because Tim is the breadwinner of the family. Even if Tim gets a job somewhere else or open a shop that's going to be a drop in their income for awhile. Al not willing to buy the store either if he's not sure he has a future at Binford. Instead of him unnecessarily worrying about Trudy buy it for him for sexual favors he could worry about her buying the store when he's not sure if he'll remain at Binford. If not he's not sure where he'll go and doesn't want to get locked into the hardware store full time because he's not sure where he's going to be working next or if he gets an offer that would mean more hours then would allow him to work in the store or in a different city.  

Very good points, and I think it would have made more sense if you did the first two episodes with Morgan first and then had Harry needing to sell the hardware store would have made more sense plot wise and also felt more like wrapping up the series. Another point was, Jill was acting like everything going on with Morgan was not a big deal until Tim flat out quits. Jill even is: "Wait, you can't do that." I get they were trying to say that Jill was so wrapped up in graduating and defending her dissertation (which we never saw) she was thinking Tim was over reacting like always. Of course when Tim hears that Bud quit, left Binford and that Morgan wanted to do more Jerry Springer until people got bored with it. That's what cemented her that things were bad. Another thing, I really never liked when Brad tells Tim: "Why it's just starting to get good." Showing that Brad likes Jerry Springer, I never liked that line. Brad loved going on Tool Time and watching Heidi and seeing the hot rod and car pieces of the show. Apparently, it was all a lie and being 18 and his father quitting the show along with everyone else now admits, maybe it's not a great idea because Jerry Springer is "cool".

   Going to the other end, they just showed Tim's first few episodes when he starts working on the original hot rod. I like Jill better here, because while she is: "Oh men and their toys." She gets its important to Tim and all the boys, even though Randy isn't a car guy really loved the idea of working on the hot rod.  Especially when Tim tells Jill the real reason why he started to like cars and why building this was so important to him. Sad to say that three years later when he sold it, we get Jill: "I hate everything like my father and I'm soooo busy all the time." 

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:14 AM, readster said:

Very good points, and I think it would have made more sense if you did the first two episodes with Morgan first and then had Harry needing to sell the hardware store would have made more sense plot wise and also felt more like wrapping up the series. Another point was, Jill was acting like everything going on with Morgan was not a big deal until Tim flat out quits. Jill even is: "Wait, you can't do that." I get they were trying to say that Jill was so wrapped up in graduating and defending her dissertation (which we never saw) she was thinking Tim was over reacting like always. Of course when Tim hears that Bud quit, left Binford and that Morgan wanted to do more Jerry Springer until people got bored with it. That's what cemented her that things were bad. Another thing, I really never liked when Brad tells Tim: "Why it's just starting to get good." Showing that Brad likes Jerry Springer, I never liked that line. Brad loved going on Tool Time and watching Heidi and seeing the hot rod and car pieces of the show. Apparently, it was all a lie and being 18 and his father quitting the show along with everyone else now admits, maybe it's not a great idea because Jerry Springer is "cool".

Yeah, Jill was wrapped up with her graduating and stuff but it was annoying that she acted like it wasn't a big deal. Given how long Tim's worked for Binford she should have realized early on that this was a big deal. Not just for Tim's job but what it could mean for her family. It doesn't matter who you or your spouse works for when someone new suddenly comes in and starts changing things around that's when you get nervous. That's rarely a good sign. That's usually a sign the company's about go under or get bought out which could still mean losing jobs. For all the times she worries about money when its not a big deal its surprising that when it actually is a big deal she's not worried. With all Morgan's changes the odds of the show getting canceled were getting better and better. She should have been worried about what happens if Tim did quit or if the show was canceled. They would have no income. They could have showed her applying to so many different practices trying to get a job and worried if she doesn't get hired right away or if Tim doesn't find a new job right away either or if they do it could still be a drop in their income. You know they could have done that instead of it in the finally episodes. Maybe have Tim quit sooner and have them worrying longer about what was going to happen instead of the quit wrap up Tim quits Tool Time Jill goes to her meeting and learns she's being offered a job.

I didn't like Brad's comment either. Yeah, its a teenage boy. But he really thought the Jerry Springer part made the show better? I'm not sure most teens would have thought of that. They'd be annoyed or laughing at Tool Time's attempt to turn itself into a different show. Or thinking it was lame. I know he's 18 but he's not at all worried that his dad just quit the job he loved?   
 

Quote

 Going to the other end, they just showed Tim's first few episodes when he starts working on the original hot rod. I like Jill better here, because while she is: "Oh men and their toys." She gets its important to Tim and all the boys, even though Randy isn't a car guy really loved the idea of working on the hot rod.  Especially when Tim tells Jill the real reason why he started to like cars and why building this was so important to him. Sad to say that three years later when he sold it, we get Jill: "I hate everything like my father and I'm soooo busy all the time." 

 

She does and I love when Tim tells her why he liked cars because of his dad. And also after Wilson tells Jill how Tim sees the car and parts a part of him. Then she goes into the garage and listens as he talks about the car. In those moments she really gets it and understands why he loves cars so much. Later its like those scenes never happened or she doesn't care. It is kind of interesting though when you think of Jill turning into her father who she always had issues with while she's married a man who followed his father's footsteps in almost every way that he could. It might make more sense for Jill to not understand because she grew up with a father who hated everything and wanted everything exactly the way it was or wish it was like that with her and her father. Its not really like that with Jill and her mother either Jill resents her mother for making them suppress emotions except for happy ones and doing everything she could to make her husband happy. Even if it meant keeping information from him and quitting stuff she liked.  

[readster]

58 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

She does and I love when Tim tells her why he liked cars because of his dad. And also after Wilson tells Jill how Tim sees the car and parts a part of him. Then she goes into the garage and listens as he talks about the car. In those moments she really gets it and understands why he loves cars so much. Later its like those scenes never happened or she doesn't care. It is kind of interesting though when you think of Jill turning into her father who she always had issues with while she's married a man who followed his father's footsteps in almost every way that he could. It might make more sense for Jill to not understand because she grew up with a father who hated everything and wanted everything exactly the way it was or wish it was like that with her and her father. Its not really like that with Jill and her mother either Jill resents her mother for making them suppress emotions except for happy ones and doing everything she could to make her husband happy. Even if it meant keeping information from him and quitting stuff she liked.  

Right and people who do that much later in life start seeing people who marry or get more associated with the family go: "Why did you put up with that?" While the excuse was: "I was just trying to keep him happy." Later on it's: "What about being happy too?" It's like one of those moments where the person goes; "Damn, you are right." Something that sadly Home Improvement did like many other sitcoms is you have this very bitter or "traditional" inlaw who instead of being happy for their child and the life they build. Is just hateful for some reason or another to their spouse for some reason. I mean, never ONCE did we ever hear who Fred would have preferred Jill to marry. I mean, hell when Lisa's affair came out that everyone but Carrie and the other sister knew about. It was like: "So, what's her excuse? She's your daughter, right, how could she EVER be guilty?" Reminds me of what John Ritter said after 3s a Crowd was cancelled. "I don't get why my father-in-law hated Jack so much. By that point, he had grown up, ran a successful business, stop being a player and yet he just hated Jack for whatever reasons. I never got that." Or on Blossom when they had the grandfather, Buzz who did feel bad his daughter walked out on his grand kids, but always loved it when he could take a swipe at the dad showing he never was happy with their marriage. Yet, his daughter walking out her kids, oh no, never could get angry at that. 

   Yet, the answer to Fred was just to not tell him things and quit things everyone else loved. I also found it way out of character that when Jill said she got high at a Led Zeppelin Concert in college. Her parents knew she was out of her mind and it was Tim who got her home since they were first dating then. I knew it was after Fred was dead and this was season 7. However, I wanted to go: "I could see Lillian telling her that, but sharing that with Fred? Never!" Fred would have so flipped out he would have told Jill to quit college and get back home so he could keep an eye on her. Jill's history might have never changed, but constancy with her character went out the door in season 3.