All Episodes Talk: Grunt

[readster]

8 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Can I have some help with a question here?

There's an episode of the show called Slip Sleddin' Away and one of the plots mentions that Brad is thinking of stopping saxophone lessons. Whenever Brad played music, was the saxophone playing done by the actor who played Brad himself, or was it done by another person?

Was Brad's saxophone playing real or not?

Most likely true, Zachary Ty Bryan did play the saxophone regularly. Why it was brought in, he started playing more soccer in real life and while they wrote it into the show. He apparently still plays in a local Blues Band. He has 3 kids now, two are twins. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:40 PM, readster said:

Watching the various Wilson's House episodes. I just realized, for a place that had so many rooms, a huge basement, the hallways were way to narrow. Seriously, when Wilson tried to sell his house, it was almost claustrophobic with the entire Taylor Family. Tim and Wilson were by the Tropic Room, Wilson almost has to get in front of Tim to tell Mozart to release him. When he goes to Brad and Randy by the mask. I thought Wilson was going to crush the two of them and just squeezed by Jill and Mark. Later on when the guys were all over watching the football game. You could see when Harry gets up to leave, he looks like he is going to get stuck in the hall way. Plus, when Wilson first dates Judith, looks like she is Alice in Wonderland at one moment when she is coming in. What were the set designers thinking?

I've been trying to figure out how Wilson's House has so many rooms. You'd almost think it was a mansion. I'm not sure why he'd want the hallways so narrow and rooms so small or so cluttered with stuff its hard for him to have people over who sit down. Maybe he was trying to mimic a rainforest or something? I don't know.  

13 hours ago, readster said:

Most likely true, Zachary Ty Bryan did play the saxophone regularly. Why it was brought in, he started playing more soccer in real life and while they wrote it into the show. He apparently still plays in a local Blues Band. He has 3 kids now, two are twins. 

I didn't know that! I was going to guess that it wasn't really him. But it is really cool how many real life interests, stories and things they brought into the characters. 

[andromeda331]

The episode where Randy's being a brat because he's jealous of Brad and Tim, Jill once again tries to tell a story from her childhood and everyone is not only rolling their eyes but already knows the story. Why won't she give it a rest? Also how is never seeing the wallabys the same as Randy jealous because he doesn't have as much in common with his dad as Brad does? You'd think she be able to come up with a story about feeling like that. She has sisters and never once felt maybe one of her sisters were closer to her mom or dad then she was? That maybe they did more together or was feeling left out? It was really nice seeing Brad filling in on Tool Time, he did a good job and I liked that he wanted to make something for his girlfriend. It was cute and Tim of course making a kidney instead of heart.  

[readster]

13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The episode where Randy's being a brat because he's jealous of Brad and Tim, Jill once again tries to tell a story from her childhood and everyone is not only rolling their eyes but already knows the story. Why won't she give it a rest? Also how is never seeing the wallabys the same as Randy jealous because he doesn't have as much in common with his dad as Brad does? You'd think she be able to come up with a story about feeling like that. She has sisters and never once felt maybe one of her sisters were closer to her mom or dad then she was? That maybe they did more together or was feeling left out? It was really nice seeing Brad filling in on Tool Time, he did a good job and I liked that he wanted to make something for his girlfriend. It was cute and Tim of course making a kidney instead of heart.  

I know, and Jill's stories got sold old that even Lucille knew them by heart. That right there just spells out that if you have all these stories, find one that relates to the boys better. I also agree, I got why Randy was upset, but in another sense. He should get it, Brad likes tools and hot rods too. Yes, he is having his attraction to Heidi, which was hilarious. However, Jill not seeing an animal at the zoo from what? 30 years ago and she keeps getting depress about it? Then she hits Tim in the years to come about his hot rod love that is really based on his father who died when he was 11? Come on. 

 

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ve been trying to figure out how Wilson's House has so many rooms. You'd almost think it was a mansion. I'm not sure why he'd want the hallways so narrow and rooms so small or so cluttered with stuff its hard for him to have people over who sit down. Maybe he was trying to mimic a rainforest or something? I don't know.  

Right and when you see his basement a few years later, it seems like he was basically a hoarder who started trying to make use of all his space. Looking back now, reminds me of a house my wife and I were check out a few years ago. You walked in and you barely moved 4 feet and you be going up the stairs. Family room was HUGE, but the kitchen was small and there was a weird back space that was narrow going into the garage. Basement was large, but looked like you could have 5 bedrooms down there and the bedrooms upstairs were lined up with one upstairs main bath. I have no idea what the hell the builder was thinking, but then again he went bankrupt and the people who bought the house a few years later, tore the whole think apart and beat down the walls and opened it up. Guess Wilson had the same type of builder.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, readster said:

I know, and Jill's stories got sold old that even Lucille knew them by heart. That right there just spells out that if you have all these stories, find one that relates to the boys better. I also agree, I got why Randy was upset, but in another sense. He should get it, Brad likes tools and hot rods too. Yes, he is having his attraction to Heidi, which was hilarious. However, Jill not seeing an animal at the zoo from what? 30 years ago and she keeps getting depress about it? Then she hits Tim in the years to come about his hot rod love that is really based on his father who died when he was 11? Come on. 

They really did and its really odd that despite all her stories the best she could come up with was not seeing an animal at the zoo. It really made no sense. Why is she still holding onto that so many years later? That's not really the same as Randy feeling upset because Brad is closer to their dad. Which is an odd feeling for Randy. He's never really cared before that Brad and Tim had similar interests. He's not interested in the hot rod or sports. But that's never been something he cared about. It was a great scene between Tim and Randy, telling him they had the same humor. I do love how holding onto things from her past isn't the same as Tim. He's makes a lot more sense he lost his father and basically has spent his life trying to be just like him. He went into tools because of his father, he gets his love of cars from his father. I do love how everyone immediately rolls their eyes at another story from Jill's childhood. You'd think she'd take the hint. Everyone is tired of her stories and she rarely comes up with one that matches the problem her kids are having. Like jiggling Randy''s pants in front of the entire store and the girl he had crush on but she thinks that's exactly like the time she had milk up her nose. Right. That's the exact same thing as being embarrassed by your mother in front of the girl you like. Maybe Jill should see a therapist. 

 

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Right and when you see his basement a few years later, it seems like he was basically a hoarder who started trying to make use of all his space. Looking back now, reminds me of a house my wife and I were check out a few years ago. You walked in and you barely moved 4 feet and you be going up the stairs. Family room was HUGE, but the kitchen was small and there was a weird back space that was narrow going into the garage. Basement was large, but looked like you could have 5 bedrooms down there and the bedrooms upstairs were lined up with one upstairs main bath. I have no idea what the hell the builder was thinking, but then again he went bankrupt and the people who bought the house a few years later, tore the whole think apart and beat down the walls and opened it up. Guess Wilson had the same type of builder.

 

That's a crazy house.  

[readster]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 Which is an odd feeling for Randy. He's never really cared before that Brad and Tim had similar interests. He's not interested in the hot rod or sports. But that's never been something he cared about. It was a great scene between Tim and Randy, telling him they had the same humor. I do love how holding onto things from her past isn't the same as Tim. He's makes a lot more sense he lost his father and basically has spent his life trying to be just like him. He went into tools because of his father, he gets his love of cars from his father. I do love how everyone immediately rolls their eyes at another story from Jill's childhood.

Which they kept with Randy when he met Lauren and how she was a car girl and he even said in the mirror: "I never really got cars until I met you." When he was trying to figure out a pick up line. Something also I felt was missed with Mark years later when Tim was trying to figure out how to help him during his "goth stage". Mark did like cars and tools, but not to the point like Brad and he wasn't the high intelligence like Randy. Also, as Mark put it, he realized his father was popular and so was his mother. Tim was in with the auto club and Jill was a varsity cheerleader in school. Mark never felt in place, of course I still don't get Ronny with Mark. I think if we would have seen more of what he liked to do besides being quiet, wearing chains like Mark. We could have understood why they were friends. Instead they came off as that: "So, what was the point of that." Once they wrote off Mark's goth phase and the writers really didn't know what to do with him. Plus, where was Jill's stories then? By then she was just quoting shrink books and magazines by then. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, readster said:

Which they kept with Randy when he met Lauren and how she was a car girl and he even said in the mirror: "I never really got cars until I met you." When he was trying to figure out a pick up line. Something also I felt was missed with Mark years later when Tim was trying to figure out how to help him during his "goth stage". Mark did like cars and tools, but not to the point like Brad and he wasn't the high intelligence like Randy. Also, as Mark put it, he realized his father was popular and so was his mother. Tim was in with the auto club and Jill was a varsity cheerleader in school. Mark never felt in place, of course I still don't get Ronny with Mark. I think if we would have seen more of what he liked to do besides being quiet, wearing chains like Mark. We could have understood why they were friends. Instead they came off as that: "So, what was the point of that." Once they wrote off Mark's goth phase and the writers really didn't know what to do with him. Plus, where was Jill's stories then? By then she was just quoting shrink books and magazines by then. 

It would have a been nice if they explained why Mark and Ronny were friends or even how. Ronny didn't say much and we did learn his family was in therapy but they never said why or did anything with that. Then suddenly he gets dropped. I wish they had gone in another direction with Mark after they dropped goth even if it was just him exploring different personalities. Except for film he never really seems to pick anything based on what he likes. He does tools and cars with his dad, he bakes and goes to ballet with Jill. They could have done more with Jill then just quoting shrinks. Starting with keeping a friend or maybe having one of her sisters move closer. We could have seen more of relationship between Jill and her sisters or maybe before the divorce have her and Nancy hang out more. One of the episodes I really do like with Tim and Jill was the last part of the episode where Jill gets hit on at the gym and she and Tim stay up all night talking. I think its the only time we ever see that and its one of the few times you really see the connection between the two. There's many episodes you wonder why they are even together especially on Jill's part since she's always seems to wish Tim was someone else. It was nice to see them together just talking.

[readster]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It would have a been nice if they explained why Mark and Ronny were friends or even how. Ronny didn't say much and we did learn his family was in therapy but they never said why or did anything with that. Then suddenly he gets dropped. I wish they had gone in another direction with Mark after they dropped goth even if it was just him exploring different personalities. Except for film he never really seems to pick anything based on what he likes. He does tools and cars with his dad, he bakes and goes to ballet with Jill. They could have done more with Jill then just quoting shrinks. Starting with keeping a friend or maybe having one of her sisters move closer. We could have seen more of relationship between Jill and her sisters or maybe before the divorce have her and Nancy hang out more. One of the episodes I really do like with Tim and Jill was the last part of the episode where Jill gets hit on at the gym and she and Tim stay up all night talking. I think its the only time we ever see that and its one of the few times you really see the connection between the two. There's many episodes you wonder why they are even together especially on Jill's part since she's always seems to wish Tim was someone else. It was nice to see them together just talking.

It also didn't help when we kept getting stories about Jill being against marrying Tim. You have the lost on their way to the wedding in season 2. When Tim asks who tried to talk her out of getting married. Jill replies: "Oh just, my sisters, my parents, the minister, the crossing guard, the librarian." Then that is completely recon with Jill's father apparently the only one who wanted them not to get married. Of course, then what was his excuse while all his other daughters were still single in their late 40s or divorce? Then once again when Al and Illene's wedding didn't happen and Jill said she had to be dragged "kicking and screaming" in which Tim really serious was like: "What?" So, what? It was all a lie because Jill just didn't want to get married to Tim? When they try to be funny like that, you want to go: "You have three kids, almost 20 years of marriage and you are trying to tell us, that one of them didn't want to even get to the alter?" It's not funny, it's a lame joke looking for a punch line. That does not come off as funny but more of: "How did these stay married?" Same when we met Bert and Dana and then finding out that Dana had to have a life like her father, and while that did seem like there was some truth to it. Jill had NEVER met Dana at that point in time, and she was just quoting a dictionary reference. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, readster said:

It also didn't help when we kept getting stories about Jill being against marrying Tim. You have the lost on their way to the wedding in season 2. When Tim asks who tried to talk her out of getting married. Jill replies: "Oh just, my sisters, my parents, the minister, the crossing guard, the librarian." Then that is completely recon with Jill's father apparently the only one who wanted them not to get married. Of course, then what was his excuse while all his other daughters were still single in their late 40s or divorce? Then once again when Al and Illene's wedding didn't happen and Jill said she had to be dragged "kicking and screaming" in which Tim really serious was like: "What?" So, what? It was all a lie because Jill just didn't want to get married to Tim? When they try to be funny like that, you want to go: "You have three kids, almost 20 years of marriage and you are trying to tell us, that one of them didn't want to even get to the alter?" It's not funny, it's a lame joke looking for a punch line. That does not come off as funny but more of: "How did these stay married?" Same when we met Bert and Dana and then finding out that Dana had to have a life like her father, and while that did seem like there was some truth to it. Jill had NEVER met Dana at that point in time, and she was just quoting a dictionary reference. 

Yeah, I can't tell if Jill was joking when she said she had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the alter or not. It doesn't sound like cold feet. Given how she keeps hoping to change Tim I wouldn't be surprised if maybe she serious and then just decided to try and turn Tim into someone else or was realizing she was marrying someone different then who she thought she would. I really don't know Jill and Tim are so different from each other and she never really enjoys anything that he likes or does and he doesn't really enjoy things she likes. But who knows from what we know of her old boyfriend Jack, he was similar to Tim. So she had a type. I didn't mind Jill admitting that some people tried to talk her out of the wedding I can see Lillian and the Colonel against the marriage. The Colonel for his reasons and Lillian probably thought Tim was too goofy and joking to be serious enough to support a family. Her sisters I don't know Tim didn't really like any of them except maybe Carrie or Robyn. Given the husband that dated one sister and married the other I'm not sure why the Colonel would keep objecting to Tim. He had a good job that supported his daughter and grandsons. But I didn't like that she went into say the minister, crossing guard and librarian. That many people hated Tim? The Bert and Dana part drives me crazy for that reason Jill never met Dana and was basing her opinion off a couple remarks from Bert. She never stopped to consider Bert could be just blowing off steam or making in-law jokes. Although she does seem someone what right about Dana and her father. Of course the ironic think is how much Jill's diagnosis fit Jill in regards to her own father.  

[readster]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, I can't tell if Jill was joking when she said she had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the alter or not. It doesn't sound like cold feet. Given how she keeps hoping to change Tim I wouldn't be surprised if maybe she serious and then just decided to try and turn Tim into someone else or was realizing she was marrying someone different then who she thought she would. I really don't know Jill and Tim are so different from each other and she never really enjoys anything that he likes or does and he doesn't really enjoy things she likes. But who knows from what we know of her old boyfriend Jack, he was similar to Tim. So she had a type. I didn't mind Jill admitting that some people tried to talk her out of the wedding I can see Lillian and the Colonel against the marriage. The Colonel for his reasons and Lillian probably thought Tim was too goofy and joking to be serious enough to support a family. Her sisters I don't know Tim didn't really like any of them except maybe Carrie or Robyn. Given the husband that dated one sister and married the other I'm not sure why the Colonel would keep objecting to Tim. He had a good job that supported his daughter and grandsons. But I didn't like that she went into say the minister, crossing guard and librarian. That many people hated Tim? The Bert and Dana part drives me crazy for that reason Jill never met Dana and was basing her opinion off a couple remarks from Bert. She never stopped to consider Bert could be just blowing off steam or making in-law jokes. Although she does seem someone what right about Dana and her father. Of course the ironic think is how much Jill's diagnosis fit Jill in regards to her own father.  

It also goes back to the entire rivalry between Tim and Bob Villa, which was really about Tim feeling insecure. In the 90s, there were not that many home improvement shows. Plus, the character of Al was based on Bob. However, during the second and then final appearance at the end of season 3. I felt like people were trying to just piss Tim off. I mean, I get the charity race and Al was star struck by being with Bob. However, when you look at it, Jill and Al goaded that anger in Tim the first three seasons until Jill saw Tim get majorly out bid at the charity auction on Tool Time. Plus, when Tim lost the race to Bob. Al, at times was cheering that Bob was so much better than Tim (and he was in experience). However, when you look at it, Tim at least moved on in the season 3 finale. I would have enjoyed seeing Tim and Bob one more time before the series ended, but I do know do to schedule, money and later health with Bob Villa. It never happened. 

[andromeda331]

26 minutes ago, readster said:

It also goes back to the entire rivalry between Tim and Bob Villa, which was really about Tim feeling insecure. In the 90s, there were not that many home improvement shows. Plus, the character of Al was based on Bob. However, during the second and then final appearance at the end of season 3. I felt like people were trying to just piss Tim off. I mean, I get the charity race and Al was star struck by being with Bob. However, when you look at it, Jill and Al goaded that anger in Tim the first three seasons until Jill saw Tim get majorly out bid at the charity auction on Tool Time. Plus, when Tim lost the race to Bob. Al, at times was cheering that Bob was so much better than Tim (and he was in experience). However, when you look at it, Tim at least moved on in the season 3 finale. I would have enjoyed seeing Tim and Bob one more time before the series ended, but I do know do to schedule, money and later health with Bob Villa. It never happened. 

I wish we had seen Bob at least one more time. I liked that he really seemed to enjoy being on Tool Time.  The Great Race II where Bob and Tim are both getting into the pissing match about their hot rods and when he was scared and didn't want to touch the wire after Tim accidentally beamed him with a beam. Aside from those two moments Bob never really seems to realize he's in a rivalry with Tim. I do wish Tim would have been able to win once against him. Jill and Al don't help at all by goading Tim each time Bob's on. Al's I can see why apparently he's Bob's biggest fan and he's the constant butt of Tim's jokes its probably fun for him to see Tim up against someone he can never beat. Jill I don't know why and it probably goes back to her feelings about almost anything that's important to Tim. Sports, the hot rod, none of it is a big deal to her and she doesn't get it no matter how long she's been married to Tim. She doesn't get why Tim is so insecure about Bob Villa. At the time Bob basically was the best. He'd be the go to home improvement show. He's not intimidated by any of the other guests stars because none of them are in home improvement. With Bob, well if they don't like Tool Time people can just turn the channel and watch Bob Villa. Also by beating him just once would mean so much to him because it meant even in one thing he was better then the best in the field. I don't know why Jill the Psychology major doesn't understand that and decides instead to goad her husband even more. Also, in the charity auction she ends up hurting Tim's case by saying he'll do their homes what he does on tool time when she could have said he'll fix up your cars or point out he built the nice bathroom they saw on Tool Time, a walk in closet, and other things that he has built that stayed together but she doesn't. She points out the big downside and of course no one is going to bid then. One thing I did find funny about the one where Bob was a write in. Out of all the guest starts they had Bob was the majority? Over Mario Andretti and anyone else?

[readster]

50 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I wish we had seen Bob at least one more time. I liked that he really seemed to enjoy being on Tool Time.  The Great Race II where Bob and Tim are both getting into the pissing match about their hot rods and when he was scared and didn't want to touch the wire after Tim accidentally beamed him with a beam. Aside from those two moments Bob never really seems to realize he's in a rivalry with Tim. I do wish Tim would have been able to win once against him. Jill and Al don't help at all by goading Tim each time Bob's on. Al's I can see why apparently he's Bob's biggest fan and he's the constant butt of Tim's jokes its probably fun for him to see Tim up against someone he can never beat. Jill I don't know why and it probably goes back to her feelings about almost anything that's important to Tim. Sports, the hot rod, none of it is a big deal to her and she doesn't get it no matter how long she's been married to Tim. She doesn't get why Tim is so insecure about Bob Villa. At the time Bob basically was the best. He'd be the go to home improvement show. He's not intimidated by any of the other guests stars because none of them are in home improvement. With Bob, well if they don't like Tool Time people can just turn the channel and watch Bob Villa. Also by beating him just once would mean so much to him because it meant even in one thing he was better then the best in the field. I don't know why Jill the Psychology major doesn't understand that and decides instead to goad her husband even more. Also, in the charity auction she ends up hurting Tim's case by saying he'll do their homes what he does on tool time when she could have said he'll fix up your cars or point out he built the nice bathroom they saw on Tool Time, a walk in closet, and other things that he has built that stayed together but she doesn't. She points out the big downside and of course no one is going to bid then. One thing I did find funny about the one where Bob was a write in. Out of all the guest starts they had Bob was the majority? Over Mario Andretti and anyone else?

True and all accounts, if Tool Time was on in the day and age, it probably appeal to Generation Z and Y due to on the spot and things going wrong. Back in the 90s, yes, you really didn't have many home improvement or flip house shows until really around 2003 when it started becoming a major thing when Trade Spaces happened. However, yes, Al I can see, but Jill could have pointed out all of the stuff Tim has done. Even the Man's Bathroom and later the Bedroom. Outside the salt and not thinking about someone being stuck in the Man's Kitchen. Tim made some great projects and even at home. The basement room, the Walk in Closet the bathroom redesign and Tim's work on cars was always stellar. You don't win "Car Man of the Year" by chance. Means you are in shows, know how to put them together and do what's right. Jill was always: "That stupid man and his stupid cars!" I mean come on, even Al loved his station wagon and kept it cherry since it was his father's, which Tim later found out and even apologized for smashing the windows during the caber toss. 

  Same when Jill mocked Tool Time's ratings, that was paying for EVERYTHING! From the property taxes to her going back for her PhD. I get how the boys didn't get that, even though Tim pointed it out to Randy when he was talking trash about it. Even Brad later on, I wanted to go: "Well Brad, your surgery would be costing you your car if it wasn't for Binford's Insurance." "So, shut up!" When Tim quit Tool Time after the crap with Morgan and Binford, Jill and the Boys THEN go into shock and panic mode. With: "How are we going to pay our bills?" "What is Randy going to do when he comes back?" Ect. As the old saying goes: "You don't realize what you have until it's gone." But the rest of the Taylor Family didn't seem to get it until Tim either sold something or quit. No one cared.

[andromeda331]

22 minutes ago, readster said:

True and all accounts, if Tool Time was on in the day and age, it probably appeal to Generation Z and Y due to on the spot and things going wrong. Back in the 90s, yes, you really didn't have many home improvement or flip house shows until really around 2003 when it started becoming a major thing when Trade Spaces happened. However, yes, Al I can see, but Jill could have pointed out all of the stuff Tim has done. Even the Man's Bathroom and later the Bedroom. Outside the salt and not thinking about someone being stuck in the Man's Kitchen. Tim made some great projects and even at home. The basement room, the Walk in Closet the bathroom redesign and Tim's work on cars was always stellar. You don't win "Car Man of the Year" by chance. Means you are in shows, know how to put them together and do what's right. Jill was always: "That stupid man and his stupid cars!" I mean come on, even Al loved his station wagon and kept it cherry since it was his father's, which Tim later found out and even apologized for smashing the windows during the caber toss. 

It really did and I can see why. The older crowd would love the tool stuff and how to fix things and the younger crowd would love things going wrong and the explosions. Both would love the guest spots. Tool Time really had what any talk show then and now would love when it came to guest spots NASCAR, football players, astronauts, on location spots as they build the bathroom, Walk in Closet, and basement bedroom. The Man's Bathroom, Kitchen, and other things. They were on the USS Constellation. I can't see how Tool Time could ever have bad ratings. I loved when Tim learned about why Al kept the station wagon and apologized. It was really great. Of course Tim would understand that he chose his career based on his late father. 

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Same when Jill mocked Tool Time's ratings, that was paying for EVERYTHING! From the property taxes to her going back for her PhD. I get how the boys didn't get that, even though Tim pointed it out to Randy when he was talking trash about it. Even Brad later on, I wanted to go: "Well Brad, your surgery would be costing you your car if it wasn't for Binford's Insurance." "So, shut up!" When Tim quit Tool Time after the crap with Morgan and Binford, Jill and the Boys THEN go into shock and panic mode. With: "How are we going to pay our bills?" "What is Randy going to do when he comes back?" Ect. As the old saying goes: "You don't realize what you have until it's gone." But the rest of the Taylor Family didn't seem to get it until Tim either sold something or quit. No one cared.

That did bug me. I can see the kids to a point kids rarely think about stuff like that. Although I don't know why Tim didn't remind them from time to time. On other shows parents are usually quick to point out their jobs are what pay for everything they have from food to their fun toys and phones. Its like when Brad got mad that Tim was borrowing his car without asking in the second to last episode Tim did point out that he helped pay for the car but I thought he'd add that long with room and board for 18 years. I did like Tim pointing out to Randy that his job paid for stuff. Jill annoys me the most because she does know that Tim's job pays for everything. Tool Time is the reason she has the luxury of going back to college and not having to work. Most can't afford to take four or five years off for college classes. But she constantly mocks it and acts like its just a stupid job even though that stupid job is paying for everything. If ratings go down or the show gets canceled what is the family going to do? Tim would most likely get another job first because she's been out of work longer and has good connections but probably not for the money he's making with Tool Time. I'd love for Tim to point that out to her but she'd just get mad and accusing him of being a jerk or like the episode where she gets mad because he thinks everything in the house is his because he pays for everything. Its like when Tim asks how much going back to college would cost she gets mad and counters how much the hot rod cost. As if that's going to be the same price as three years of grad school, books and how many under grad classes she had to take.  There's no way the hot rod would cost more. But then of course its what she wants and its no big deal. But that's like when she wants to have another baby or move to Indiana she gets mad that Tim's not on board with either one. But when its Tim's turn to want another baby and to move up to the lodge she dismisses both completely and acts like he's insane. So its okay for Jill to want stuff and Tim had better be on board with it but when its Tim forget it he doesn't deserve the same consideration that Jill expects.   

[readster]

43 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It really did and I can see why. The older crowd would love the tool stuff and how to fix things and the younger crowd would love things going wrong and the explosions. Both would love the guest spots. Tool Time really had what any talk show then and now would love when it came to guest spots NASCAR, football players, astronauts, on location spots as they build the bathroom, Walk in Closet, and basement bedroom. The Man's Bathroom, Kitchen, and other things. They were on the USS Constellation. I can't see how Tool Time could ever have bad ratings. I loved when Tim learned about why Al kept the station wagon and apologized. It was really great. Of course Tim would understand that he chose his career based on his late father. 

Another thing is, I did some reading, apparently the early reason for the idea for that Morgan would come in and force Tim, Al, Heidi and everyone to quit the show was mirrored over what lead Bob Villa after a decade on This old House to leave the show. He ran into changes and people who were in charge of the network at the time and while the show had hit it's height of popularity in 1987. Once Bob left, the show started dropping due to the new host. Leading to Bob on Home Again, which went on for over a decade, but was a decline in ratings that eventually lead to the shows end, but on better notes between Bob Villa and the CBS network at that time. Morgan was so concerned with copying everyone else's ideas he never thought about trying web episodes for Tool Time, which started happening in the late 90s. Funny he didn't decide to copy that and do his "Jerry Springer" that way to get people interested. 

 

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That did bug me. I can see the kids to a point kids rarely think about stuff like that. Although I don't know why Tim didn't remind them from time to time. On other shows parents are usually quick to point out their jobs are what pay for everything they have from food to their fun toys and phones. Its like when Brad got mad that Tim was borrowing his car without asking in the second to last episode Tim did point out that he helped pay for the car but I thought he'd add that long with room and board for 18 years. I did like Tim pointing out to Randy that his job paid for stuff. Jill annoys me the most because she does know that Tim's job pays for everything. Tool Time is the reason she has the luxury of going back to college and not having to work. Most can't afford to take four or five years off for college classes. But she constantly mocks it and acts like its just a stupid job even though that stupid job is paying for everything. If ratings go down or the show gets canceled what is the family going to do? Tim would most likely get another job first because she's been out of work longer and has good connections but probably not for the money he's making with Tool Time. I'd love for Tim to point that out to her but she'd just get mad and accusing him of being a jerk or like the episode where she gets mad because he thinks everything in the house is his because he pays for everything. Its like when Tim asks how much going back to college would cost she gets mad and counters how much the hot rod cost. As if that's going to be the same price as three years of grad school, books and how many under grad classes she had to take.  There's no way the hot rod would cost more. But then of course its what she wants and its no big deal. But that's like when she wants to have another baby or move to Indiana she gets mad that Tim's not on board with either one. But when its Tim's turn to want another baby and to move up to the lodge she dismisses both completely and acts like he's insane. So its okay for Jill to want stuff and Tim had better be on board with it but when its Tim forget it he doesn't deserve the same consideration that Jill expects.   

Yeah, if Jill wanted it, Tim had to be in the wrong. However, if Tim thought of it, Jill immediately had to put it down or come right back thinking the world would fall apart. It's like with Tim's vasectomy. Jill went into panic mode when she found out her classmate was pregnant at 36 after going back to school. Her logic for thinking that it would happen to her too? "They used the same birth control we use." Same goes back to Tim wanting his first car back before it got junked. Her exact words: "No more hot rods! I want to finish school!" Yet, she got that Austin Hely, which made NO SENSE! She buys a British, hard to find car, which seriously makes NO SENSE? Outside the Nomad getting smashed, she never cared about cars EVER! Same with getting the family piano back from her really, really weird cousin. Then she COULDN'T play the damn thing and then tries to get piano lessons from a woman who thinks there is no excuse for practicing if you are fighting in a war torn country. Because I'm sure he could have said: "Sorry, captain, I need to work on my cross fingers for a half an hour, but I'll make sure I'm at Blueberry Hill in time for the bombardment." Soon as I heard that I be: "Yeah, I'm going to find another teacher, thank you. Plus, then Jill complains she is TOO Busy to practice. Then why did you want to learn to play? Can't it wait, I don't know another year after you are DONE with school?

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Another thing is, I did some reading, apparently the early reason for the idea for that Morgan would come in and force Tim, Al, Heidi and everyone to quit the show was mirrored over what lead Bob Villa after a decade on This old House to leave the show. He ran into changes and people who were in charge of the network at the time and while the show had hit it's height of popularity in 1987. Once Bob left, the show started dropping due to the new host. Leading to Bob on Home Again, which went on for over a decade, but was a decline in ratings that eventually lead to the shows end, but on better notes between Bob Villa and the CBS network at that time. Morgan was so concerned with copying everyone else's ideas he never thought about trying web episodes for Tool Time, which started happening in the late 90s. Funny he didn't decide to copy that and do his "Jerry Springer" that way to get people interested. 

I didn't know that. How stupid of them to think fans would tune into watch the show without Bob. Sometimes I don't know where TPTB get those ideas. Morgan was such an idiot its hard to imagine he got as far as he did with Binford. His only ideas were to copy other people. How original. There's nothing fans love more then to tune into to watch their favorite show or home improvement show to find everyone replaced or everyone behaving like their on Jerry Springer. That'll get fans in an uproar fast. Replacing the stars is only going to get the show canceled. Changing up the show will only get it canceled too. Updating is one thing. Changing the show or trying to change it into it isn't or following what ever is the current "hot" thing will only get the show canceled too. That stuff never works. Why would people tune into see people punching each other on Tool Time instead of Jerry Springer? I do love how Morgan (and ah maybe some real TPTB executives) seem to think that'll save the show or making high ratings. Some how know it or have done the research for it but never once do the research of how many shows fail or ratings drop when people do that to shows. Again like with LOST after it was hit there were dozens of new shows trying to be just like that show. Capture its ratings. But they all failed. They kept trying to do that and yet it rarely works. They tried that with other talks shows trying to compete with Jerry Springer show. But his was the only one that remained. Maybe try doing the numbers on that Morgan.

 

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Yeah, if Jill wanted it, Tim had to be in the wrong. However, if Tim thought of it, Jill immediately had to put it down or come right back thinking the world would fall apart. It's like with Tim's vasectomy. Jill went into panic mode when she found out her classmate was pregnant at 36 after going back to school. Her logic for thinking that it would happen to her too? "They used the same birth control we use." Same goes back to Tim wanting his first car back before it got junked. Her exact words: "No more hot rods! I want to finish school!" Yet, she got that Austin Hely, which made NO SENSE! She buys a British, hard to find car, which seriously makes NO SENSE? Outside the Nomad getting smashed, she never cared about cars EVER! Same with getting the family piano back from her really, really weird cousin. Then she COULDN'T play the damn thing and then tries to get piano lessons from a woman who thinks there is no excuse for practicing if you are fighting in a war torn country. Because I'm sure he could have said: "Sorry, captain, I need to work on my cross fingers for a half an hour, but I'll make sure I'm at Blueberry Hill in time for the bombardment." Soon as I heard that I be: "Yeah, I'm going to find another teacher, thank you. Plus, then Jill complains she is TOO Busy to practice. Then why did you want to learn to play? Can't it wait, I don't know another year after you are DONE with school?

 

Oh, yeah, she panics over her friend getting pregnant. Then forces and badgers Tim into the vasectomy. She didn't even give him time to process and think about it. She was all over him to agree and got mad when he wouldn't. Who's going to agree to any kind of non-emergency surgery that fast? No one. Their going to want to think it over.  But nope that's not what Jill does. Ironically his reason for not getting clipped turned out to be the same reason that Jill got mad at him for not wanting to have another kid. He didn't want more kids but liked the idea he still could. That's exactly what she told Tim after he finally came around to having another baby with her. She wanted to keep the door open on the possibility. Same with his first car the woman who drove to another state to try and get her old piano and was so upset not to get the clock doesn't understand why Tim wants his first car? Why is it always so hard for her to understand anything that Tim wants or likes. She's allowed to get reminisce about her past but he's not? Why was she so reminisce about the piano when she couldn't even play? The clock I get. The piano I might get if it was handed down. But as we see she's crappy at it and apparently too busy to practice. Then what is the point? Why take lessons then? Why not wait until later? Also, what is she doing that she's so busy she can't practice? At that point the boys are older and pretty much off on their own activities, friends and girls. She's doesn't work, or volunteer and isn't using the time to become a better cook. The only thing she has is her classes and course work and there's no reason why she couldn't find time to practice around that schedule or even to take a break while studying.  The Hely was just weird because yeah she's not interested in cars so I don't know why she'd want to blow her money on something like that. I know she had to spend on something fun for herself. But you'd think she'd chose a spa or spa getaway, a trip or piece of art or something.

[readster]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I didn't know that. How stupid of them to think fans would tune into watch the show without Bob. Sometimes I don't know where TPTB get those ideas. Morgan was such an idiot its hard to imagine he got as far as he did with Binford. His only ideas were to copy other people. How original. There's nothing fans love more then to tune into to watch their favorite show or home improvement show to find everyone replaced or everyone behaving like their on Jerry Springer. That'll get fans in an uproar fast. Replacing the stars is only going to get the show canceled. Changing up the show will only get it canceled too. Updating is one thing. Changing the show or trying to change it into it isn't or following what ever is the current "hot" thing will only get the show canceled too. That stuff never works. Why would people tune into see people punching each other on Tool Time instead of Jerry Springer? I do love how Morgan (and ah maybe some real TPTB executives) seem to think that'll save the show or making high ratings. Some how know it or have done the research for it but never once do the research of how many shows fail or ratings drop when people do that to shows. Again like with LOST after it was hit there were dozens of new shows trying to be just like that show. Capture its ratings. But they all failed. They kept trying to do that and yet it rarely works. They tried that with other talks shows trying to compete with Jerry Springer show. But his was the only one that remained. Maybe try doing the numbers on that Morgan.

 

Oh, yeah, she panics over her friend getting pregnant. Then forces and badgers Tim into the vasectomy. She didn't even give him time to process and think about it. She was all over him to agree and got mad when he wouldn't. Who's going to agree to any kind of non-emergency surgery that fast? No one. Their going to want to think it over.  But nope that's not what Jill does. Ironically his reason for not getting clipped turned out to be the same reason that Jill got mad at him for not wanting to have another kid. He didn't want more kids but liked the idea he still could. That's exactly what she told Tim after he finally came around to having another baby with her. She wanted to keep the door open on the possibility. Same with his first car the woman who drove to another state to try and get her old piano and was so upset not to get the clock doesn't understand why Tim wants his first car? Why is it always so hard for her to understand anything that Tim wants or likes. She's allowed to get reminisce about her past but he's not? Why was she so reminisce about the piano when she couldn't even play? The clock I get. The piano I might get if it was handed down. But as we see she's crappy at it and apparently too busy to practice. Then what is the point? Why take lessons then? Why not wait until later? Also, what is she doing that she's so busy she can't practice? At that point the boys are older and pretty much off on their own activities, friends and girls. She's doesn't work, or volunteer and isn't using the time to become a better cook. The only thing she has is her classes and course work and there's no reason why she couldn't find time to practice around that schedule or even to take a break while studying.  The Hely was just weird because yeah she's not interested in cars so I don't know why she'd want to blow her money on something like that. I know she had to spend on something fun for herself. But you'd think she'd chose a spa or spa getaway, a trip or piece of art or something.

I could have seen Jill getting season tickets to a ballet or getting pieces of art. Hell, even using money to get her own offices for future planning. The Hely made no sense what's so ever. As someone writing his own dissertation, if I didn't have breaks like with my drawing or running, I go mad. My kids are getting older and being around mom and dad does start becoming: "Why do you need to be around?" So, Jill's excuse for being busy didn't make sense. Plus, what the hell was her dissertation/thesis even on? We never ONCE saw her interviewing people, having stacks of library books or saying: "I need to get these artifacts filed." Oh wait... that's right, the writers didn't know how people get thesis/dissertations done. They think they go to endless classes and have summers off like they are in high school. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:04 PM, readster said:

I could have seen Jill getting season tickets to a ballet or getting pieces of art. Hell, even using money to get her own offices for future planning. The Hely made no sense what's so ever. As someone writing his own dissertation, if I didn't have breaks like with my drawing or running, I go mad. My kids are getting older and being around mom and dad does start becoming: "Why do you need to be around?" So, Jill's excuse for being busy didn't make sense. Plus, what the hell was her dissertation/thesis even on? We never ONCE saw her interviewing people, having stacks of library books or saying: "I need to get these artifacts filed." Oh wait... that's right, the writers didn't know how people get thesis/dissertations done. They think they go to endless classes and have summers off like they are in high school. 

That would have made more sense too. She doesn't care about cars but the ballet? Maybe the opera or buying art. That would make sense and in character for her. Using the money for her own offices would have been a great idea. Tim could have done a Tool Time and it would have been fun to see designing and building her office. Seeing her interview people for her thesis would have been really interesting. That could have made for a good episode. We don't even really learn what her thesis is until she has to defend it. I still love the summers off. It cracks me up everyone I know who went back to college never took summers off. They went to class year around in order to get it done faster so they could go out and get a job as soon as possible. But in HI universe nope Jill's not working, she's taking summers off. There's no sense of urgency to get done and get out there starting a new career and getting paid.   

[readster]

On 8/19/2018 at 9:36 PM, andromeda331 said:

That would have made more sense too. She doesn't care about cars but the ballet? Maybe the opera or buying art. That would make sense and in character for her. Using the money for her own offices would have been a great idea. Tim could have done a Tool Time and it would have been fun to see designing and building her office. Seeing her interview people for her thesis would have been really interesting. That could have made for a good episode. We don't even really learn what her thesis is until she has to defend it. I still love the summers off. It cracks me up everyone I know who went back to college never took summers off. They went to class year around in order to get it done faster so they could go out and get a job as soon as possible. But in HI universe nope Jill's not working, she's taking summers off. There's no sense of urgency to get done and get out there starting a new career and getting paid.   

Which really is a problem during "The Flirting Game" when Jill tries to do flirting to get her dissertation proposal accepted by her chair. I really would like to know where the rest of her committee is. You just don't have ONE person when it comes to thesis/dissertations. There are chairs, but there are usually 2-3 other professors and then the chair of the department that approves them. Jill's schooling got stranger and stranger. Plus, interesting that when someone else got really hurt like Brad from this "trip" down the carpet. To Jill falling off the water ski jump. All of a sudden, Tim turns into a guy who just constantly has to hurt the person. Never once did we see Tim after hurting himself getting it worst and worst. It was almost like Tim was trying to kill off Jill and Brad in those episodes. 

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, readster said:

Which really is a problem during "The Flirting Game" when Jill tries to do flirting to get her dissertation proposal accepted by her chair. I really would like to know where the rest of her committee is. You just don't have ONE person when it comes to thesis/dissertations. There are chairs, but there are usually 2-3 other professors and then the chair of the department that approves them. Jill's schooling got stranger and stranger. Plus, interesting that when someone else got really hurt like Brad from this "trip" down the carpet. To Jill falling off the water ski jump. All of a sudden, Tim turns into a guy who just constantly has to hurt the person. Never once did we see Tim after hurting himself getting it worst and worst. It was almost like Tim was trying to kill off Jill and Brad in those episodes. 

So would I. Where was everyone else? They managed to show up when she had to defend her thesis. But couldn't show up for the dissertation proposal? What kind of college did she go to? It had to be a crappy one, they didn't even know how it worked. Or maybe she wasn't that good of a student? Maybe it makes more sense that way that Jill never actually gets better at being a therapist. I guess they couldn't bother to find out how any of that stuff worked. I don't understand why introduce a plot that's going to span years and not bother to find out how it worked. They wouldn't have to use all of it but some would be nice. Plus they might have come up with more ideas on things Jill could do instead of just showing her studying all the time. But also Brad getting hurt was more Brad's fault then Tim's he had to know they were pulling up carpet because Tim would have been talking about it for weeks and the night before. How did he manage to trip over that? If carpet is pulled up that's something you noticed. Now Jill's accident was Tim's fault and really stupid. Who doesn't pay attention to driving? Of course Tim. But that's still no excuse when you have someone water skiing behind you. You pay attention. Then barely had any sympathy for her. After causing her accident. 

[readster]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So would I. Where was everyone else? They managed to show up when she had to defend her thesis. But couldn't show up for the dissertation proposal? What kind of college did she go to? It had to be a crappy one, they didn't even know how it worked. Or maybe she wasn't that good of a student? Maybe it makes more sense that way that Jill never actually gets better at being a therapist. I guess they couldn't bother to find out how any of that stuff worked. I don't understand why introduce a plot that's going to span years and not bother to find out how it worked. They wouldn't have to use all of it but some would be nice. Plus they might have come up with more ideas on things Jill could do instead of just showing her studying all the time. But also Brad getting hurt was more Brad's fault then Tim's he had to know they were pulling up carpet because Tim would have been talking about it for weeks and the night before. How did he manage to trip over that? If carpet is pulled up that's something you noticed. Now Jill's accident was Tim's fault and really stupid. Who doesn't pay attention to driving? Of course Tim. But that's still no excuse when you have someone water skiing behind you. You pay attention. Then barely had any sympathy for her. After causing her accident. 

It also goes back to when Randy was put into high school classes and Randy mentions how is science teacher is also his guidance counselor? What was he going to a private school? It's not like you don't have Vice Principals, Dean of Students, ect teaching other classes. However, science in a middle school is pretty much full time. Especially when you have to teaching multiple grades, so to think that his science teacher then had time to keep up with all these students and then guide them in taking classes or sports, or community events. Unless this was a school of a 100 kids, there would be no time for that. Plus, GC have pretty busy schedules as kids get older, HS counselors are almost busy daily, so to have it with one of Randy's main teachers is also working on his academic performance, doesn't work that way. Just like a few years later with the high school newspaper and Randy is talking how Brad's article made it over his or how Randy was talked about being such a "wimp", where the hell are the teachers? You might have student editors and EICs, however, there is a teacher or staff member who is the main publisher who has to read over these things. If the article looks like it's going to be hurtful or just spiteful, it's going to be stopped right there. Yet, shows like Home Improvement just go: "Well, really the kids are running the show." No, they aren't! This is a academic teaching, not small town press.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, readster said:

It also goes back to when Randy was put into high school classes and Randy mentions how is science teacher is also his guidance counselor? What was he going to a private school? It's not like you don't have Vice Principals, Dean of Students, ect teaching other classes. However, science in a middle school is pretty much full time. Especially when you have to teaching multiple grades, so to think that his science teacher then had time to keep up with all these students and then guide them in taking classes or sports, or community events. Unless this was a school of a 100 kids, there would be no time for that. Plus, GC have pretty busy schedules as kids get older, HS counselors are almost busy daily, so to have it with one of Randy's main teachers is also working on his academic performance, doesn't work that way. Just like a few years later with the high school newspaper and Randy is talking how Brad's article made it over his or how Randy was talked about being such a "wimp", where the hell are the teachers? You might have student editors and EICs, however, there is a teacher or staff member who is the main publisher who has to read over these things. If the article looks like it's going to be hurtful or just spiteful, it's going to be stopped right there. Yet, shows like Home Improvement just go: "Well, really the kids are running the show." No, they aren't! This is a academic teaching, not small town press.

I don't know. I assumed until that episode Randy was going to public middle school and the same one Brad went to. But Jill had to explain they had an older son but maybe Brad wasn't in his class. And yes science classes are full time. There's no way the guidance counselor and science teacher would be the same person. They have different jobs. It would make more sense for the guidance counselor to say he's been talking with the science teacher or both to be present. I could buy the guidance counselor filling in as a sub in rare case when they weren't able to get a substitute (my schools used to do that) but that still wouldn't make as much sense. That's just not what a guidance counselor's job is. Isn't normal for schools to have programs to send their students to high school? I know of programs for taking college classes but haven't heard one for high school. Usually they would be put in the AP classes or they'd have the kid or kids skip up into high school. Then again I went to public schools that were at the bottom of the totem pole when it came to funds and everything else so maybe Randy went to a better middle school? I don't know. Where are all the teachers when stuff is going on? Usually they'd be all over stuff like that whether is ones who actually care about their students or ones worry about liability. The article I can't believe a teacher wrote that and it was published. It doesn't matter that its a school paper that teacher would be fired immediately and have a really hard time finding a job anywhere else.     

[readster]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't know. I assumed until that episode Randy was going to public middle school and the same one Brad went to. But Jill had to explain they had an older son but maybe Brad wasn't in his class. And yes science classes are full time. There's no way the guidance counselor and science teacher would be the same person. They have different jobs. It would make more sense for the guidance counselor to say he's been talking with the science teacher or both to be present. I could buy the guidance counselor filling in as a sub in rare case when they weren't able to get a substitute (my schools used to do that) but that still wouldn't make as much sense. That's just not what a guidance counselor's job is. Isn't normal for schools to have programs to send their students to high school? I know of programs for taking college classes but haven't heard one for high school. Usually they would be put in the AP classes or they'd have the kid or kids skip up into high school. Then again I went to public schools that were at the bottom of the totem pole when it came to funds and everything else so maybe Randy went to a better middle school? I don't know. Where are all the teachers when stuff is going on? Usually they'd be all over stuff like that whether is ones who actually care about their students or ones worry about liability. The article I can't believe a teacher wrote that and it was published. It doesn't matter that its a school paper that teacher would be fired immediately and have a really hard time finding a job anywhere else.     

It's also like Mark's film teacher at the middle school and having it where Brad is doing gross things with the silverware or recording Jill saying horrible things about her chair. Sorry, but you know to properly grade something you VIEW THE FINAL PRODUCT FIRST! You don't do a full open house for projects and then shocked everyone what the films are. Even the other students watching who I'm assuming were in the same class were grossed out or shocked. But you know teachers on TV shows. They are either full of themselves, clueless or apparently are running: sports, classrooms and giving guidance for academic success. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, readster said:

It's also like Mark's film teacher at the middle school and having it where Brad is doing gross things with the silverware or recording Jill saying horrible things about her chair. Sorry, but you know to properly grade something you VIEW THE FINAL PRODUCT FIRST! You don't do a full open house for projects and then shocked everyone what the films are. Even the other students watching who I'm assuming were in the same class were grossed out or shocked. But you know teachers on TV shows. They are either full of themselves, clueless or apparently are running: sports, classrooms and giving guidance for academic success. 

That's true. You'd think Mark's film teacher would have more of an idea of what each video already is and that there would be guidelines. If only so the teacher doesn't get in trouble. How does he think Mark's family is going to react to a video of Brad doing gross things and his mother clearly not knowing she's being recorded. You'd think the teacher would have at some point would have talked to Mark about it. How he could be embarrassing his family. Or the other kid who decided to announce his feelings about his stepfather in his video and in front of his entire class and their families. How is that a good idea? For one the kid just announced something very private and personal, you never know what a class of teenagers are going to do with that. They might tease him even more. You'd think the teacher would decided to get the counselor and parents involved on that one.  I guess none of the teachers felt like doing their jobs? No one cares what happens in sports, classrooms or anywhere else? Why was the school never concerned about getting in trouble for stuff like that? Where were the teachers? Getting drunk in teacher's lounge?  

The episode with the space shuttle Columbia still is just so weird to me. Its so weird to watch footage of the shuttle that broke up in 2003. I'm glad that none of the crew that visited Tool Time were on it. But its still weird and really hard not to think of those who did lose their lives in the disaster.

Edited August 23, 2018 by andromeda331

[readster]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's true. You'd think Mark's film teacher would have more of an idea of what each video already is and that there would be guidelines. If only so the teacher doesn't get in trouble. How does he think Mark's family is going to react to a video of Brad doing gross things and his mother clearly not knowing she's being recorded. You'd think the teacher would have at some point would have talked to Mark about it. How he could be embarrassing his family. Or the other kid who decided to announce his feelings about his stepfather in his video and in front of his entire class and their families. How is that a good idea? For one the kid just announced something very private and personal, you never know what a class of teenagers are going to do with that. They might tease him even more. You'd think the teacher would decided to get the counselor and parents involved on that one.  I guess none of the teachers felt like doing their jobs? No one cares what happens in sports, classrooms or anywhere else? Why was the school never concerned about getting in trouble for stuff like that? Where were the teachers? Getting drunk in teacher's lounge?  

 

Yeah, the last time we had a coach or teacher doing their job on the show was when Brad was taken off the field for basically, hogging the ball and being a one team man. It's not like you don't get players who do that in high school. They feel they are the BMC or are slamming other players while they play. However, you score 3 goals in a row, have the team up. Yes, the coach is going to pull out off and go: "Brad, there is no 'I' in team" however to just kick you off like that with no word. It's like TV shows after the original Coach Carter story thought that coaches could just magically chain up doors, tell people they are off the team even though they are good players, ect. Brad wouldn't have gotten kicked off the team like that, and if the school was up that many points, Brad would have still be left on there, because this was the late 90s. Schools want to win games and go to division championships (which later in the season they did thanks to Brad). But to think that Brad was kicked off, then drove home and then back to his house before Jill and Tim had left the house saying: "We are going to miss the 2nd quarter." That makes no sense. Just as much as Mark's unwatched film, Randy being ridiculed in the school newspaper or even how Randy attacked Bud acting like he was the New York Times reporter. It doesn't work that way. I get it's TV, it's a sitcom, but trying make some odd point because: "I read it in the newspaper or saw it on the news" doesn't mean you know how it all went down. Ripped from the headlines doesn't always work in the run. 

 

Quote

The episode with the space shuttle Columbia still is just so weird to me. Its so weird to watch footage of the shuttle that broke up in 2003. I'm glad that none of the crew that visited Tool Time were on it. But its still weird and really hard not to think of those who did lose their lives in the disaster.

I know what you mean. You can't predict the future, but it's like watching movies where you see the World Trade Center and people just enjoying the view or seeing the skyline like that. I remember when Friends first showed the post 9/11 skyline on the show in late 2001. It was just so hard to watch. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, readster said:

Yeah, the last time we had a coach or teacher doing their job on the show was when Brad was taken off the field for basically, hogging the ball and being a one team man. It's not like you don't get players who do that in high school. They feel they are the BMC or are slamming other players while they play. However, you score 3 goals in a row, have the team up. Yes, the coach is going to pull out off and go: "Brad, there is no 'I' in team" however to just kick you off like that with no word. It's like TV shows after the original Coach Carter story thought that coaches could just magically chain up doors, tell people they are off the team even though they are good players, ect. Brad wouldn't have gotten kicked off the team like that, and if the school was up that many points, Brad would have still be left on there, because this was the late 90s. Schools want to win games and go to division championships (which later in the season they did thanks to Brad). But to think that Brad was kicked off, then drove home and then back to his house before Jill and Tim had left the house saying: "We are going to miss the 2nd quarter." That makes no sense. Just as much as Mark's unwatched film, Randy being ridiculed in the school newspaper or even how Randy attacked Bud acting like he was the New York Times reporter. It doesn't work that way. I get it's TV, it's a sitcom, but trying make some odd point because: "I read it in the newspaper or saw it on the news" doesn't mean you know how it all went down. Ripped from the headlines doesn't always work in the run. 

Yeah, that cracked me up. There's no way a team is going to take their best player off the team. In real life we can't even get teams to do that when their facing criminal charges. At most the Coach would talk to him or his parents and try to get them to talk to their kid if even that. There's a lot of money riding on football games not to mention the benefits for the school and the Coach. It would be nice but it'll never happen. I'm not really what Randy was expecting Bud to say or do in that interview or why Bud didn't end it sooner. Its a high school newspaper Randy, tone it down. I did like Tim talking to Randy and getting through to him how to talk in those situation. The more yelling and screaming you do the less people are going to listen. What was Randy going expecting? Bud to suddenly go you know what your right. We're an ass I'm going to immediately do this, this and this. Tomorrow everything's going to be better. First that would never happen and yes it takes time. We don't know what mess Bud was left with by John Binford and I really wouldn't be surprise if that was the case. John didn't seem like someone who would care about those things plus when he built the business and throughout most of his career it was probably not something he'd ever had to worry about. The environmental stuff didn't really start popping up starting in the 60s but then kind of stopped until 90s when people started to care again. I'm not really sure how Tim and Al don't know about that stuff either. Employees generally know that kind of stuff. Tim's worked with Binford longer and he would know if and when they changed policies to be more environmental. I get what they were trying to do with Brad and with Randy and yes when your that age its very easy to get a huge ego or get so passionate about causes that your attacking people and yelling.  Brad needed to learn to watch the ego, Randy needed to learn how to discuss things he's passionate about without attacking. I do love how Randy was so upset with his sell out father that he decided to take a bus home. Gee, that's environmentally sound Randy.  

 

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I know what you mean. You can't predict the future, but it's like watching movies where you see the World Trade Center and people just enjoying the view or seeing the skyline like that. I remember when Friends first showed the post 9/11 skyline on the show in late 2001. It was just so hard to watch. 

 

I remember that too. I was still watching Friends then and it was so hard to watch. Right before the Rio games I decided to watch one of the YouTube videos of the 96 Olympic Gymnastic Team final. I completely forgot at that at the time of those Olympics there had been a commercial inside the World Trade Center. It was so shocking to suddenly be watching a commercial with a guy at the World Trade Center.

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, that cracked me up. There's no way a team is going to take their best player off the team. In real life we can't even get teams to do that when their facing criminal charges. At most the Coach would talk to him or his parents and try to get them to talk to their kid if even that. There's a lot of money riding on football games not to mention the benefits for the school and the Coach.

 

 

I know, you also get kids who are constantly skipping school, sleeping in class, trying to sneak their phones all the time. Yet, kicking them off the team, why would they do that? Even if they couldn't dress for a game because of academic reasons, they are still on there. They just can't play until their grades are up, but sadly even that isn't a motivation and as you said. Even face criminal charges. They still don't get kicked off.

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It would be nice but it'll never happen. I'm not really what Randy was expecting Bud to say or do in that interview or why Bud didn't end it sooner. Its a high school newspaper Randy, tone it down. I did like Tim talking to Randy and getting through to him how to talk in those situation. The more yelling and screaming you do the less people are going to listen. What was Randy going expecting? Bud to suddenly go you know what your right. We're an ass I'm going to immediately do this, this and this. Tomorrow everything's going to be better. First that would never happen and yes it takes time. We don't know what mess Bud was left with by John Binford and I really wouldn't be surprise if that was the case. John didn't seem like someone who would care about those things plus when he built the business and throughout most of his career it was probably not something he'd ever had to worry about. The environmental stuff didn't really start popping up starting in the 60s but then kind of stopped until 90s when people started to care again. I'm not really sure how Tim and Al don't know about that stuff either. Employees generally know that kind of stuff. Tim's worked with Binford longer and he would know if and when they changed policies to be more environmental. I get what they were trying to do with Brad and with Randy and yes when your that age its very easy to get a huge ego or get so passionate about causes that your attacking people and yelling.  Brad needed to learn to watch the ego, Randy needed to learn how to discuss things he's passionate about without attacking. I do love how Randy was so upset with his sell out father that he decided to take a bus home. Gee, that's environmentally sound Randy.  

Yeah, that was actually pretty realistic portrayal of a kid that thinks they know it all, but don't see it doesn't happen over night. Similar to the person on a social media network who is always constantly complaining how something needs to change. Then one someone asks what are they doing about the problem. They respond: "I'm busy." However, having Tim and Al being oblivious to the facts, that doesn't work. Especially when you go back just two seasons to them doing environmental week. Yes, Binford was changing, but sometimes it takes years to clear things up when you inherit someone else's mess. Yet, everyone wants things "right this minute." Which of course was Al's sense of things, he didn't know why people didn't give him what he wanted right away. Why couldn't Illene get he put his mother first. Why couldn't Tim just listen to him the first time? Why wasn't he getting what he wanted in life sooner? Al felt he was always getting the short end of the stick on things, even though it was true. However, why did Al always feel he needed two of the same type of clothes or boots? I get it was a joke, but when you see Al taking off his flannel shirt and then putting on the EXACT same type of shirt. It starts looking like Al has a obsession. Same when he had his boots and says how he has dress work boots and regular work boots. THEY ARE THE SAME BOOTS! 

[readster]

It's so weird watching the episode of: "Harry gets rid of Deloris" I know we have talked about how horrible of a person she was. It's funny when Tim is telling Jill how having her at the hardware store is so bad (her manager has her working one day a week for 12 hours). Jill thinks its a great idea, but she doesn't give any back up. Her only reason: "you are just mad because you can't go to the hardware store and talk bad about your wife. When Deloris is there she is completely horrible. Telling people to buy something or get out. Order Al around to move stock and nothing but that. Hiding the coffee pot so they couldn't give "free coffee" to everyone. Which, from last I check, Harry offered coffee free to all the customers and charged for pop corn. Also, Benny looking through all the supplies for donuts, which really painted him not only as a mooch but pathetic. I mean, really he is that low on cash, he has to search for food. Plus, the way she yells at Marty and Tim. Wow! Why would you want to go to Harry's Hardware, you be bitched at and never want to return. I think if Jill would have seen that she might have gone: "Yeah, maybe this wasn't such a great idea." Plus what was Deloris going to really do? She wasn't going to make money, Harry owns the store and only Al is there and is a partner. So he's making money, but other wise what is Deloris really doing? She just has some place else to just be a bitch to everyone instead of the dinner. Plus, if anyone was acting like that, yeah, she be out on her ass. 

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, readster said:

I know, you also get kids who are constantly skipping school, sleeping in class, trying to sneak their phones all the time. Yet, kicking them off the team, why would they do that? Even if they couldn't dress for a game because of academic reasons, they are still on there. They just can't play until their grades are up, but sadly even that isn't a motivation and as you said. Even face criminal charges. They still don't get kicked off.

No, they don't. Their still on the team. No matter what their still on the team.  

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Yeah, that was actually pretty realistic portrayal of a kid that thinks they know it all, but don't see it doesn't happen over night. Similar to the person on a social media network who is always constantly complaining how something needs to change. Then one someone asks what are they doing about the problem. They respond: "I'm busy." However, having Tim and Al being oblivious to the facts, that doesn't work. Especially when you go back just two seasons to them doing environmental week. Yes, Binford was changing, but sometimes it takes years to clear things up when you inherit someone else's mess. Yet, everyone wants things "right this minute." 

It is. They always think they know everything and everything can be done immediately. That shouting, be rude and tearing into people is the way to change things and my favorite is not researching things. Tim did a good job explaining to Randy the way he was going it only made people think he wanted to destroy Binford. Real activism takes a lot of work. Its easy to say know things area bad. Its harder to come up with real solutions. Ones that will work. And also how long it takes to implement new policies. It takes years to get things done. They want things done now but never have any solutions. When you ask they don't know.  In Randy case how exactly was yelling at Bud and being rude a good idea? Tim says later that Bud's the one to talk to about stuff like that. If Tim wasn't his father Bud never would agree to meet with Randy again. He would have burned that bridge. How smart is it to get be yelling at the person who can effect change? Yelling at Bud isn't going to change anything. Talking, real talking and listening, and coming up with ideas. If he wants Binford's record to change he'll need Bud.  

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Which of course was Al's sense of things, he didn't know why people didn't give him what he wanted right away. Why couldn't Illene get he put his mother first. Why couldn't Tim just listen to him the first time? Why wasn't he getting what he wanted in life sooner? Al felt he was always getting the short end of the stick on things, even though it was true. However, why did Al always feel he needed two of the same type of clothes or boots? I get it was a joke, but when you see Al taking off his flannel shirt and then putting on the EXACT same type of shirt. It starts looking like Al has a obsession. Same when he had his boots and says how he has dress work boots and regular work boots. THEY ARE THE SAME BOOTS! 

That got annoying especially in the last seasons. In the early seasons Al changed into normal clothes plus he seemed to enjoy the Hawaiian shirts. Then they got to the point all he wore was plaid. Even if it was changing to the exact same shirt or boots. It also took away from Al's reason for always wearing flannel that its what his dad wrapped him in when he helped as a little kid. Why was it so hard for him to put Illene first? If you listen to him in that Christmas episode he's really ridiculous. He can't cut his mother out for one night? He can't understand why Iliene is upset and thinks she's the one who needs to change? If that was his 'tude no wonder he wasn't in relationship. When he tells Tim that Tim doesn't understand. Why not? Tim's father died when he was young too. He still married and had a family. Did he really need Tim to spell it out that if he want kids its not going to be with his mother?  In the beginning it seemed more like Al had confidence problem.  He was nervous with Greta. Then in the beginning with Iliene he was going so fast he wanted to marry her after the first date. Even thought he knew nothing about her. He later jumps again when he wants to marry Iliene but won't until he's success? Why? He didn't really need to blow his life savings on Tool Time in order to marry Iliene. Then after all that they call it quits? Why? Did he not date before Greta? His mother never tried to set him up? People never tried to set him up at church or Bingo?     

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, readster said:

It's so weird watching the episode of: "Harry gets rid of Deloris" I know we have talked about how horrible of a person she was. It's funny when Tim is telling Jill how having her at the hardware store is so bad (her manager has her working one day a week for 12 hours). Jill thinks its a great idea, but she doesn't give any back up. Her only reason: "you are just mad because you can't go to the hardware store and talk bad about your wife. When Deloris is there she is completely horrible. Telling people to buy something or get out. Order Al around to move stock and nothing but that. Hiding the coffee pot so they couldn't give "free coffee" to everyone. Which, from last I check, Harry offered coffee free to all the customers and charged for pop corn. Also, Benny looking through all the supplies for donuts, which really painted him not only as a mooch but pathetic. I mean, really he is that low on cash, he has to search for food. Plus, the way she yells at Marty and Tim. Wow! Why would you want to go to Harry's Hardware, you be bitched at and never want to return. I think if Jill would have seen that she might have gone: "Yeah, maybe this wasn't such a great idea." Plus what was Deloris going to really do? She wasn't going to make money, Harry owns the store and only Al is there and is a partner. So he's making money, but other wise what is Deloris really doing? She just has some place else to just be a bitch to everyone instead of the dinner. Plus, if anyone was acting like that, yeah, she be out on her ass. 

I hated when Jill did that because really why? Why does she think its a great idea for Delores to work at the hardware store? Anyone else could see why it was a bad idea. Sure enough it was. She put Al to work, confiscated the coffee, and yelled at the customers. Who does she think is keeping the hardware store going? Tim drops tons of money month after month. She really wants him to go somewhere else? To lose what I'm going to guess is the majority of their income because she's down to one day and week and also I doubt she's getting good tips ever.  I still don't see how she doesn't get fired and often. Also it bugs me when Jill remarks about Tim not being able to go complain about his wife behind her back. Right, like we've never seen her complain about Tim behind his back. Like she doesn't complain about him to her friends and family. Its the same thing Jill stop acting like you don't do that too. 

[readster]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hated when Jill did that because really why? Why does she think its a great idea for Delores to work at the hardware store? Anyone else could see why it was a bad idea. Sure enough it was. She put Al to work, confiscated the coffee, and yelled at the customers. Who does she think is keeping the hardware store going? Tim drops tons of money month after month. She really wants him to go somewhere else? To lose what I'm going to guess is the majority of their income because she's down to one day and week and also I doubt she's getting good tips ever.  I still don't see how she doesn't get fired and often. Also it bugs me when Jill remarks about Tim not being able to go complain about his wife behind her back. Right, like we've never seen her complain about Tim behind his back. Like she doesn't complain about him to her friends and family. Its the same thing Jill stop acting like you don't do that too. 

  Delores was like Home Improvement was trying to have their own version of Carla from Cheers. However, Carla was a sassy who felt like her life had gone out of control. Yet, realized that some of her problems were her own fault and that she liked to hate on others as a coping mechanism. Delores was just bitter and angry all the time. Having Harry say he needed Delores to leave 24 years ago, which would have been a year after they were married. I cannot seeing a marriage like that lasing, I don't care if it was the 70s when they got married. Or that they had that classic: "Arguing couple that really love each other" and then have 3 kids during those years. Delores might have been the type to send a Thank You Card or thank someone for helping them out. However, the constant yelling at people, saying how much people were idiots and being so bitter about... EVERYTHING. Sorry, when she said they were moving in the final season to Arizona due to her asthma. I was so happy she was gone. 

  On for Jill thinking it was a good idea and always complained all the time she got the chance.  Jill also saying how busy she was to not practice the piano. Yet, she wanted to throw herself to direct Randy's school play of Rome & Juliet? Once again throwing out that Jill only went to school in the fall and spring. Since they were saying it was the end of the school year for the boys. Which meant, Jill was finished with classes for the time being. Since colleges are usually done the first two weeks of May. Yet, in future seasons, Jill was so tired by the, she wanted to just relax or go out and and have some "Me" time. Here she was jumping at the chance to direct the play. Same also goes with Jill joining the book club. If she was so BUSY how was she having time to read all these books and when she was sitting in the car with Jason talking in the car before heading back in the house. She was really in the car for 20 minutes? Interesting that Tim didn't notice a car in his drive way or the boys. Yet, after that episode, Jill once again, just like her pottery class, just dropped out of everything. She kept being painted as someone who use to do fun stuff or had in her head she was good at something and then just stopped doing it. Talk about a waste of money and time. 

   Jill honestly should have been still doing a book club on a regular basis and would have been a great avenue for her to have you know, friends. 

[readster]

I had a little time the other day and I thought I do some look at notes from Home Improvement because usually when a series has been off the air for almost two decades. Old interviews surface. One back in 1999 talked about that if the show would have continued another season. Their early notes were: "Al and Trudy adjust to marriage." "Mark starts high school and gets a great girlfriend who 'gets him'." "Jill will start her practice with funny stories from her patients." "Tim will be Tim." "Brad will be at college and make occasional appearances." There were notes that depending on where things were with JTT on his return to guest star in season 9, though we know that wouldn't have happened since Tim Allen and other producers were still on the outs with him until around 2005. Plans on making both Marty, Jeff and Robin would be more reoccurring to fill in the gaps left by JTT and ZTB. Otherwise nothing else. Considering that when negotiations started and Patricia Richardson was not going to have the matched salary like Tim Allen. That's when he called it quits for the show. Other wise only real story lines that were going to end season 8 was that Al and Trudy got married and Brad was going to graduate high school and head to school. I'm thinking we might have gotten a graduation episode for Brad if they were so pushing to wrap everything up in 6 episodes before the series ended.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, readster said:

  Delores was like Home Improvement was trying to have their own version of Carla from Cheers. However, Carla was a sassy who felt like her life had gone out of control. Yet, realized that some of her problems were her own fault and that she liked to hate on others as a coping mechanism. Delores was just bitter and angry all the time. Having Harry say he needed Delores to leave 24 years ago, which would have been a year after they were married. I cannot seeing a marriage like that lasing, I don't care if it was the 70s when they got married. Or that they had that classic: "Arguing couple that really love each other" and then have 3 kids during those years. Delores might have been the type to send a Thank You Card or thank someone for helping them out. However, the constant yelling at people, saying how much people were idiots and being so bitter about... EVERYTHING. Sorry, when she said they were moving in the final season to Arizona due to her asthma. I was so happy she was gone. 

They probably were except they forgot to give other sides to Delores. Carla was sassy and rude but she was more then that. She was raising a ton of kids, she was loyal to her friends. We had episodes were you could see why Sam didn't fire her. With Delores we never saw that. She was just yelling all the time and at everyone and being bitter. All the time. The arguing couple who really love each other isn't so bad if we get to see they really do love each other. We never got that with Harry and Delores. Even in the episode they split up and they try to claim Harry was covering up his emotions. Except he was being the happiest we ever saw him. We never had a minute or even a second where he was sad or acting like he missed her. Of course Delores never realizes she's wrong with how she behaved at the hardware store even though that's what lead to the split up. Why are we suppose to care that her husband finally had enough of her crap? And did so when she was at his store doing everything she could to drive it into the ground. She never softens or anything to show she misses Harry or cares. All we ever see is her yelling at everyone. Her husband, her friends, his customers, her customers. Why would anyone put with that for twenty-four years. Your right even thought it was the 70s they would have split up with in a year. 
 

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On for Jill thinking it was a good idea and always complained all the time she got the chance.  Jill also saying how busy she was to not practice the piano. Yet, she wanted to throw herself to direct Randy's school play of Rome & Juliet? Once again throwing out that Jill only went to school in the fall and spring. Since they were saying it was the end of the school year for the boys. Which meant, Jill was finished with classes for the time being. Since colleges are usually done the first two weeks of May. Yet, in future seasons, Jill was so tired by the, she wanted to just relax or go out and and have some "Me" time. Here she was jumping at the chance to direct the play. Same also goes with Jill joining the book club. If she was so BUSY how was she having time to read all these books and when she was sitting in the car with Jason talking in the car before heading back in the house. She was really in the car for 20 minutes? Interesting that Tim didn't notice a car in his drive way or the boys. Yet, after that episode, Jill once again, just like her pottery class, just dropped out of everything. She kept being painted as someone who use to do fun stuff or had in her head she was good at something and then just stopped doing it. Talk about a waste of money and time. 

   Jill honestly should have been still doing a book club on a regular basis and would have been a great avenue for her to have you know, friends. 

 

A regular book club could have interesting and a good way for her to have friends and have them appear on the show. It would have nice to see her doing something else and having friends showing up off and on. Her own group of friends. But yes once again Jill is always so busy. But she's constantly volunteering for stuff. Wanting to take over a play. Wanting to take lessons, part of book club. She's so busy but has all this time for that? Even though she's taking college classes. Why doesn't she go year around? That would have gotten your degree faster Jill. It is interesting how she constantly drops things the pottery, book club and piano lessons. I know its more likely the show forgot. But with Jill we know she probably gave up on piano because she was no good at it and that's probably why she quit pottery. I'm going to guess she never told anyone because she only likes to brag when she's good at something. If she had been good at pottery she'd have kept going to the class and constantly bragged how good she was. She probably made up an excuse that she was so busy and quit. Book Club I could honestly see her quitting if they disagreed with her opinions on books or thought she was wrong. Most people its no big deal they have different ideas on books but as we've seen with Jill she can't handle ever being wrong or anyone disagreeing with her. So it probably got to a point where they disagreed with Jill over a book and she got mad and quit. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, readster said:

I had a little time the other day and I thought I do some look at notes from Home Improvement because usually when a series has been off the air for almost two decades. Old interviews surface. One back in 1999 talked about that if the show would have continued another season. Their early notes were: "Al and Trudy adjust to marriage." "Mark starts high school and gets a great girlfriend who 'gets him'." "Jill will start her practice with funny stories from her patients." "Tim will be Tim." "Brad will be at college and make occasional appearances." There were notes that depending on where things were with JTT on his return to guest star in season 9, though we know that wouldn't have happened since Tim Allen and other producers were still on the outs with him until around 2005. Plans on making both Marty, Jeff and Robin would be more reoccurring to fill in the gaps left by JTT and ZTB. Otherwise nothing else. Considering that when negotiations started and Patricia Richardson was not going to have the matched salary like Tim Allen. That's when he called it quits for the show. Other wise only real story lines that were going to end season 8 was that Al and Trudy got married and Brad was going to graduate high school and head to school. I'm thinking we might have gotten a graduation episode for Brad if they were so pushing to wrap everything up in 6 episodes before the series ended.

Those are interesting ideas. It would have been fun to see Brad starting college and Mark starting high school. I'm not sure how well the season would have gone though with Mark being the only kid home and Brad only occasionally home. It would be nice to see Jeff and Robin end up together. I didn't like how put them together in season eight and then we never got to see them together again. Jeff refers to her but that's it. I'm not sure it would have been fun to watch so many other characters being added onto the show. It was growing old seeing Marty going from crappy job to crappy job and being crappy at it while he complained. It would have been nice to see Al and Trudy together. I really wish we had gotten see Brad and Jill both graduate. Those are always such great moments and shows. Seeing little Brad graduate. Jill graduate after spending so much time on her going to school. I can't decide if it would have been fun to see her with patients it could be fun and funny but we'd also see Jill doing a bad job. It would have been nice to see Wilson and Judith end up together. Maybe Tool Time going national and/or Tim joining the board or something. There was a lot they could still do. But would it work out only having Taran as the only Taylor kid still on the show regularly? 

[readster]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

Those are interesting ideas. It would have been fun to see Brad starting college and Mark starting high school. I'm not sure how well the season would have gone though with Mark being the only kid home and Brad only occasionally home. It would be nice to see Jeff and Robin end up together. I didn't like how put them together in season eight and then we never got to see them together again. Jeff refers to her but that's it. I'm not sure it would have been fun to watch so many other characters being added onto the show. It was growing old seeing Marty going from crappy job to crappy job and being crappy at it while he complained. It would have been nice to see Al and Trudy together. I really wish we had gotten see Brad and Jill both graduate. Those are always such great moments and shows. Seeing little Brad graduate. Jill graduate after spending so much time on her going to school. I can't decide if it would have been fun to see her with patients it could be fun and funny but we'd also see Jill doing a bad job. It would have been nice to see Wilson and Judith end up together. Maybe Tool Time going national and/or Tim joining the board or something. There was a lot they could still do. But would it work out only having Taran as the only Taylor kid still on the show regularly? 

You do have to wonder that and the way things were going with Noah Smith later on, if he would have left the show if they would have gone longer. Especially, when Earl Hindman dying in 2003 and was diagnosed with Lung Cancer in 2002. Something always escaped me was why Tim wasn't an executive producer on Tool Time. That was one of the reasons why Morgan was trying to get Tim back. Something that had been talked about since Bud first showed up in season 4. Sometimes I felt that Binford as a company really took advantage of both Tim and Al. Al was always getting shit on and a bad paycheck. Tim was always being manipulated by John, Bud or even members of the Board and President for Binford. The only one who got treated fairly with Heidi and then Morgan took advantage of her sex appeal to make it look like it was Friday Night Wrestling. Plus, if they would have gone a season 9, they would have written Debbie's pregnancy in the show too. It was funny that Jill finally finishing up her PhD was because the writers were tired of writing Jill in school because they didn't know what else to write with that and felt the well was dry which was a big "duh". It's also funny that despite the problems between JTT and Home Improvement executives was more from JTT's publists similar to Terry Ferrel from Deep Space 9 where they had no flashbacks with her on the final episode because her agent and manager at the time thought it would be a bad idea. Same ones who convinced her to leave Becker in season 4 when she wasn't getting a pay raise. Sometimes, agents and managers DON'T KNOW BETTER.

[andromeda331]

6 minutes ago, readster said:

You do have to wonder that and the way things were going with Noah Smith later on, if he would have left the show if they would have gone longer. Especially, when Earl Hindman dying in 2003 and was diagnosed with Lung Cancer in 2002. Something always escaped me was why Tim wasn't an executive producer on Tool Time. That was one of the reasons why Morgan was trying to get Tim back. Something that had been talked about since Bud first showed up in season 4. Sometimes I felt that Binford as a company really took advantage of both Tim and Al. Al was always getting shit on and a bad paycheck. Tim was always being manipulated by John, Bud or even members of the Board and President for Binford. The only one who got treated fairly with Heidi and then Morgan took advantage of her sex appeal to make it look like it was Friday Night Wrestling. Plus, if they would have gone a season 9, they would have written Debbie's pregnancy in the show too. It was funny that Jill finally finishing up her PhD was because the writers were tired of writing Jill in school because they didn't know what else to write with that and felt the well was dry which was a big "duh".It's also funny that despite the problems between JTT and Home Improvement executives was more from JTT's publists similar to Terry Ferrel from Deep Space 9 where they had no flashbacks with her on the final episode because her agent and manager at the time thought it would be a bad idea. Same ones who convinced her to leave Becker in season 4 when she wasn't getting a pay raise. Sometimes, agents and managers DON'T KNOW BETTER. 

He might have because unfortunately Taran Noah Smith was having problems. If he left then there would be no kids left. I really don't think fans would have kept watching. We started watching the family of five. The kids were a big part of the show plus we were watching them growing up. I know in the end producers don't have much of a choice when actors decide to leave a show. Its either end the show or try to keep it going without it. Losing all three kids the show really wouldn't have been the same. Binford really did take advantage of Tim and Al. They really trusted Binford even though they kept getting treated like crap. Tim constantly ended up having to change his plans and suck up to Bud when Bud never followed through. He never made Tim an executive or took the show national. Morgan was stupid enough to think stealing ideas from other shows and losing the entire Tool Time cast wouldn't make a difference. Yes it does. People tune into Tool Time for Tim, Al and Heidi. Al kept getting screwed over in his pay and no parking spot? Heidi roughly the biggest star of the show still got treated like crap. Ironically all three would have done much better if they had agent. All three didn't seem to realize how much power they did have. Tim with all of his connections and fans tuning into see the stunts. Also with all their on location stuff. The Man's Kitchen and Bedroom and other things. Al got an agent when that magazine came out and he decided to try and make the most of it. Its funny that the agent's never once considered renegotiating Al's contract. In a way it makes sense Tim, Al and Heidi weren't really show business people. So it didn't really occur to them that maybe they should get an agent or lawyer or someone who could help them negotiate their contracts better and capitalize on their success. Tim never thought to get it in writing Bud's promises and was constantly disappointed when nothing came of them. Tim, Al and Heidi were the show and face of Tool Time. They had more leverage then any of them realized.   A better agent then one of the many crappy ones that are out there.

[readster]

31 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He might have because unfortunately Taran Noah Smith was having problems. If he left then there would be no kids left. I really don't think fans would have kept watching. We started watching the family of five. The kids were a big part of the show plus we were watching them growing up. I know in the end producers don't have much of a choice when actors decide to leave a show. Its either end the show or try to keep it going without it. Losing all three kids the show really wouldn't have been the same. Binford really did take advantage of Tim and Al. They really trusted Binford even though they kept getting treated like crap. Tim constantly ended up having to change his plans and suck up to Bud when Bud never followed through. He never made Tim an executive or took the show national. Morgan was stupid enough to think stealing ideas from other shows and losing the entire Tool Time cast wouldn't make a difference. Yes it does. People tune into Tool Time for Tim, Al and Heidi. Al kept getting screwed over in his pay and no parking spot? Heidi roughly the biggest star of the show still got treated like crap. Ironically all three would have done much better if they had agent. All three didn't seem to realize how much power they did have. Tim with all of his connections and fans tuning into see the stunts. Also with all their on location stuff. The Man's Kitchen and Bedroom and other things. Al got an agent when that magazine came out and he decided to try and make the most of it. Its funny that the agent's never once considered renegotiating Al's contract. In a way it makes sense Tim, Al and Heidi weren't really show business people. So it didn't really occur to them that maybe they should get an agent or lawyer or someone who could help them negotiate their contracts better and capitalize on their success. Tim never thought to get it in writing Bud's promises and was constantly disappointed when nothing came of them. Tim, Al and Heidi were the show and face of Tool Time. They had more leverage then any of them realized.   A better agent then one of the many crappy ones that are out there.

How true and after we saw the lines of: Fred the idiot producer. Arlene "Producer" Binford or that the Swedish Network was more invested in taking Tool Time International. Tim, Al and Heidi all came up with looking pretty stupid. Hell, they could have made an excuse with Jill not doing summer classes because she needed a break and didn't want to always be away from the family. However, that was never thought of either. I always found it on that Heidi who would do: "Swimsuit Calendars, Binford Promotions and know that guys found her hot" she then would get upset when kids like Brad crushed on her or that people were always staring at her. Yet it takes Morgan having her dress up in skin tight outfits, with pom poms and smoke before she realized that she was just used as a sex toy for Binford's expense. You think after she had a baby and a girl at that she wouldn't go: "You know, maybe I need to show more good examples for my daughter and not think she needs to be a sex idol." 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, readster said:

How true and after we saw the lines of: Fred the idiot producer. Arlene "Producer" Binford or that the Swedish Network was more invested in taking Tool Time International. Tim, Al and Heidi all came up with looking pretty stupid. Hell, they could have made an excuse with Jill not doing summer classes because she needed a break and didn't want to always be away from the family. However, that was never thought of either. 

That would have made sense. If Jill wanted to take time off because she didn't want to be away from her family. Her kids are out for the summer and they probably went on vacations. But they never mentioned. I also wonder if they ever realized how much Jill sounded more and more like Al's mom as the years went by. The episode where they finally build the bedroom in the basement. She doesn't want Randy that far away. He's in the basement and he's older its not like he's spending a whole lot of time in with her when he was upstairs by this point. Her freak out at Mark wanting to take flying lessons and karate. Getting mad at Mark when he used is karate to save Randy. Taking Randy shopping for new clothes when he's clearly old enough to go by himself and not getting why he was so embarrassed.  

 

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I always found it on that Heidi who would do: "Swimsuit Calendars, Binford Promotions and know that guys found her hot" she then would get upset when kids like Brad crushed on her or that people were always staring at her. Yet it takes Morgan having her dress up in skin tight outfits, with pom poms and smoke before she realized that she was just used as a sex toy for Binford's expense. You think after she had a baby and a girl at that she wouldn't go: "You know, maybe I need to show more good examples for my daughter and not think she needs to be a sex idol." 

It is surprising that it took that for Heidi to realize that she was being used as a sex toy for Binford. If it wasn't obvious when she was hired it would have been basically every day since then. When the audience wanted to leave Tim used Heidi to get them to stay, when they were auctioning off cars he offered lunch with Heidi to get calls coming in. She knew what her job was and why she was the most popular person on the show. How it would have been interesting if Heidi thought about that after her daughter was born or even as she was getting older. Did she ever get tired of it? When she was hired was she hoping it would turn into more or maybe the pay was good? The last tool girl ended up going back to college. We did see Heidi over the years helping with projects. Including rewiring Al's board game. Did she ever want to do more?

[readster]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It is surprising that it took that for Heidi to realize that she was being used as a sex toy for Binford. If it wasn't obvious when she was hired it would have been basically every day since then. When the audience wanted to leave Tim used Heidi to get them to stay, when they were auctioning off cars he offered lunch with Heidi to get calls coming in. She knew what her job was and why she was the most popular person on the show. How it would have been interesting if Heidi thought about that after her daughter was born or even as she was getting older. Did she ever get tired of it? When she was hired was she hoping it would turn into more or maybe the pay was good? The last tool girl ended up going back to college. We did see Heidi over the years helping with projects. Including rewiring Al's board game. Did she ever want to do more?

How true and not to mention the reason Debbie ended up in the credits the last two seasons was because they had expanded Heidi's character in the course of the show. Something that never happened with Lisa. Seriously, when Pam returns in the season 5 finale that was the biggest story line Lisa had ever had with Home Improvement. It would have been interesting if we would have found out that Heidi originally had worked a secretarial or possible tool sales person herself. When she was introduced in the season 3 premiere, Tim just said that Lisa had left to move on in her career. When Al made the joke about Bob Villa and Tim corrects him by saying going to school. It was nice that you had a character written off for school and when she came back she had finished her program in 3 years. Which was actually a NORMAL time for schooling with someone at Lisa's age. Unlike Jill's schooling they dragged it on until they didn't know what else to do with .it. 

  Speaking of Al's mom, interesting how Alma became another TV trope, she was a woman who was hyped up to be either: ugly, fat, having issues and while you heard a voice or something, she never appeared because they described her in such a fashion they could never show her. Similar to Vera on Cheers, with the closest being she got a pie in the face in the season 5 Thanksgiving episode. In which the writers realized they shouldn't have gone that far. Meris on Fraiser, Steve Urkel's parents on Family Matters and Kimmy's parents on Full House. They show kept writing it to where the producers said: "It became an impossibility to cast an actor or actress for the part." With Earl Hindeman, they never planned on Wilson having his face hid the entire run of the show. It wasn't until the show took off in the first season and people made comments they loved not seeing Wilson's face that it became the writer and construction crew's task to hide his face in inventive ways. Of course that didn't always work. You had Earl's face in the 1st season opening credits. You had the Beach Boys moving so fast they showed Wilson's face. When Willow first showed up, yes Wilson has a Renaissance costume and beard on. However, it was still Earl's face, he just has a beard. I know the original talk for the final episode was for Wilson to reveal his face completely to the audience during Al and Judy's wedding. Similar to how both Daryles in the Newheart finale finally talked. However, it was changed at the last minute to do the reveal at the final curtain call. 

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, readster said:

How true and not to mention the reason Debbie ended up in the credits the last two seasons was because they had expanded Heidi's character in the course of the show. Something that never happened with Lisa. Seriously, when Pam returns in the season 5 finale that was the biggest story line Lisa had ever had with Home Improvement. It would have been interesting if we would have found out that Heidi originally had worked a secretarial or possible tool sales person herself. When she was introduced in the season 3 premiere, Tim just said that Lisa had left to move on in her career. When Al made the joke about Bob Villa and Tim corrects him by saying going to school. It was nice that you had a character written off for school and when she came back she had finished her program in 3 years. Which was actually a NORMAL time for schooling with someone at Lisa's age. Unlike Jill's schooling they dragged it on until they didn't know what else to do with .it. 

Yeah Lisa had the biggest story line when she came back. While she was on the show they didn't really do much with her. She was just there. Which is kind of weird to cast someone in a role and not do much. You'd think they'd just save the money and have basically anyone do that job. I liked that they expanded Heidi's role but it would be nice to see what her background was she a salesperson? That would make sense with Binford or was she a model hired for Binford tool commercials or ads? Did she have a background in tools? I do love that yes Lisa's three years of college made complete sense for her career while Jill's really didn't. Yes it just dragged on and on and there was no real urgency to finish up and get to work and to start getting paid. 
 

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  Speaking of Al's mom, interesting how Alma became another TV trope, she was a woman who was hyped up to be either: ugly, fat, having issues and while you heard a voice or something, she never appeared because they described her in such a fashion they could never show her. Similar to Vera on Cheers, with the closest being she got a pie in the face in the season 5 Thanksgiving episode. In which the writers realized they shouldn't have gone that far. Meris on Fraiser, Steve Urkel's parents on Family Matters and Kimmy's parents on Full House. They show kept writing it to where the producers said: "It became an impossibility to cast an actor or actress for the part." With Earl Hindeman, they never planned on Wilson having his face hid the entire run of the show. It wasn't until the show took off in the first season and people made comments they loved not seeing Wilson's face that it became the writer and construction crew's task to hide his face in inventive ways. Of course that didn't always work. You had Earl's face in the 1st season opening credits. You had the Beach Boys moving so fast they showed Wilson's face. When Willow first showed up, yes Wilson has a Renaissance costume and beard on. However, it was still Earl's face, he just has a beard. I know the original talk for the final episode was for Wilson to reveal his face completely to the audience during Al and Judy's wedding. Similar to how both Daryles in the Newheart finale finally talked. However, it was changed at the last minute to do the reveal at the final curtain call. 

 

She really did and I do agree with the decision to not hire an actress. No actress would have been able to pull it off. She made much more sense to go the same route as Vera, Maris and Urkle's parents (less sense on what happened to poor Judy!) It doesn't always work when they do finally show the person. On the Nanny five seasons passed before we finally saw Fran's dad and he kind of...didn't really fit. He didn't seem like the person Fran and her mother always talked about.  Or Lane's father finally showing up in Revival after missing the entire series, his daughter's wedding and birth of her children, Lane and Mrs. Kim's estrangement, with him it would have made more sense for Mrs. Kim to be a widow.  

[readster]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

She really did and I do agree with the decision to not hire an actress. No actress would have been able to pull it off. She made much more sense to go the same route as Vera, Maris and Urkle's parents (less sense on what happened to poor Judy!) It doesn't always work when they do finally show the person. On the Nanny five seasons passed before we finally saw Fran's dad and he kind of...didn't really fit. He didn't seem like the person Fran and her mother always talked about.  Or Lane's father finally showing up in Revival after missing the entire series, his daughter's wedding and birth of her children, Lane and Mrs. Kim's estrangement, with him it would have made more sense for Mrs. Kim to be a widow.  

Yes and then you have characters that they never seem to get rid of. By the time we saw Jason for the final time, he had already been caught lying and getting a Halloween Party going. Trying to get Brad to cheat a test and then he tries to make the moves on Lauren. While the lying and getting the Halloween Party going, that should have been it. Yet, they had Jason get Tim again on the security episode and here he was STILL allowed in the house when Lauren went out to the concert? At that point, I be: "You stay the hell away from my house, you liar!" I really wish they would have brought Lucille in earlier or went with the original idea that Lucille and Art Leonard were going to get married. It was in the planning stages for season 7 and then got swept under the rug? Why? They decided to focus on Mark's goth story line thinking it would be a better story for the season, until it wasn't. 

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, readster said:

Yes and then you have characters that they never seem to get rid of. By the time we saw Jason for the final time, he had already been caught lying and getting a Halloween Party going. Trying to get Brad to cheat a test and then he tries to make the moves on Lauren. While the lying and getting the Halloween Party going, that should have been it. Yet, they had Jason get Tim again on the security episode and here he was STILL allowed in the house when Lauren went out to the concert? At that point, I be: "You stay the hell away from my house, you liar!" I really wish they would have brought Lucille in earlier or went with the original idea that Lucille and Art Leonard were going to get married. It was in the planning stages for season 7 and then got swept under the rug? Why? They decided to focus on Mark's goth story line thinking it would be a better story for the season, until it wasn't. 

Yeah, that never made any sense that Jason was allowed back in the house and not only that Tim somehow believes him when Jason tells him he's getting his first saw or something. There's no way Tim would ever believe anything that kid said again after the Halloween episode. If we saw Brad sneaking Jason into the house and out since he seemed to the only one who still liked Jason. I guess that's normal to someone like Brad to think Jason is so cool. Lucille and Art getting married would have been a really good storyline for the show. Seeing the kids adjust to a new grandpa. Would it be hard for Tim to see his mother remarried and happy with another man even if it is someone he really admires? It isn't always easy especially given how much Tim looked up to his father. And Art had a daughter! How strange would it be for Tim and his brothers to get used to a stepsister in their family? I think Art would have made a good addition to the family and show. The goth story was fine but then they got bored with really soon that they really could have done both. Also I know Tim and Jill decided to drop all of the security ideas except for one camera over the front door. But shouldn't they have put a camera or two long the side of the house with all those windows and doors? Or more locks or something. All anyone would have to do is break the glass and their in. Or cut glass long enough to reach hand in and open the door and their open. That's a pretty long section with really big windows and doors that make it really, really easy for a burglar or anyone to easily be able to tell no one is home and go in. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by andromeda331

[readster]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Lucille and Art getting married would have been a really good storyline for the show. Seeing the kids adjust to a new grandpa. Would it be hard for Tim to see his mother remarried and happy with another man even if it is someone he really admires? It isn't always easy especially given how much Tim looked up to his father. And Art had a daughter! How strange would it be for Tim and his brothers to get used to a stepsister in their family? I think Art would have made a good addition to the family and show. The goth story was fine but then they got bored with really soon that they really could have done both.

Yes, would have been some great stories there and they already had Art's daughter show up, so they could have had it where it would have been interesting to adapt to a step sibling when everyone is in their forties except for Marty. I think if they would have had Ronnie be more of an interesting character and having it where Mark was doing more with movie making or just showing he was still doing things in school. They could have fit it in, but we know the writers got tired of it and even Noah Smith got sick of the story line around mid season because he had no idea what they were trying to do at that point. I remember Noah saying later in interviews after the season had ended: "Mark kept his dad from going to outer space, talk about selfish." "Why is all of a sudden Mark fine when we started the season back up, never made sense outside we were just bored with the story, including me." 

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Also I know Tim and Jill decided to drop all of the security ideas except for one camera over the front door. But shouldn't they have put a camera or two long the side of the house with all those windows and doors? Or more locks or something. All anyone would have to do is break the glass and their in. Or cut glass long enough to reach hand in and open the door and their open. That's a pretty long section with really big windows and doors that make it really, really easy for a burglar or anyone to easily be able to tell no one is home and go in. 

This also shows one of the horrible character traits of Al, when he has to reveal the information about the neighbors signing the pension to get it removed. No one needed to know that information and it's the not the first time that Al did that just to be spiteful. It's like when George Foreman asked what happened to Tim's face after Jill hit him. He said: "I fell on something." Al turns and tells George: "His wife's fist." And then smiles about it like it's the funniest thing in the world. Why did Al have to do that? I get that Tim said things about Al, but it was more in good humor. Here Al acts like people need to know this information and just out right embarrass Tim because he can. Sorry to say, Tim made comments about Al's mother, but so did everyone else. Even at the funeral they were all: "Dear God! How fat was this woman?" 

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 4:27 PM, readster said:

Yes, would have been some great stories there and they already had Art's daughter show up, so they could have had it where it would have been interesting to adapt to a step sibling when everyone is in their forties except for Marty. I think if they would have had Ronnie be more of an interesting character and having it where Mark was doing more with movie making or just showing he was still doing things in school. They could have fit it in, but we know the writers got tired of it and even Noah Smith got sick of the story line around mid season because he had no idea what they were trying to do at that point. I remember Noah saying later in interviews after the season had ended: "Mark kept his dad from going to outer space, talk about selfish." "Why is all of a sudden Mark fine when we started the season back up, never made sense outside we were just bored with the story, including me." 

It really would have. And Art and Lucille were really cute together. Ronnie could have been more interesting if like the goth they did more with him. We don't even know how Ronnie and Mark met, given Ronnie's lack of words who knows how that happened. What did they have in common? Just film? Beyond film. Did Ronnie have any issues? His parents took him to counseling so there could have been issues. They could have made him more interesting. I still laugh every time at scene where Jill makes a joke and Ronnie doesn't say anything so she was explains it was a joke. Ronnie then very quietly says good one.

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This also shows one of the horrible character traits of Al, when he has to reveal the information about the neighbors signing the pension to get it removed. No one needed to know that information and it's the not the first time that Al did that just to be spiteful. It's like when George Foreman asked what happened to Tim's face after Jill hit him. He said: "I fell on something." Al turns and tells George: "His wife's fist." And then smiles about it like it's the funniest thing in the world. Why did Al have to do that? I get that Tim said things about Al, but it was more in good humor. Here Al acts like people need to know this information and just out right embarrass Tim because he can. 

Yeah that was one of his worse traits. When Tim joked and goofed around he was joking. He admitted to Al around season two or three that he did that because that's how he treated all of his brothers. Al knows that. Al revealing information was just to be mean. Why did he have to do that? It doesn't really make him come off better or funny. Just mean. Also, what bugs me about it is Tim's treated like he made another mistake in that episode that his neighbors signed the petition. But the security system was JILL'S fault. Yes Tim thought about going overboard but then thought about it and went for the simpler model. But this time it was JILL who was upset (and still scared about Wilson's house being broken into) and told him to go wild. But somehow it ends up still being Tim's fault. I buy the neighbors not knowing that but I don't buy that Al didn't. Tim would have told him that and even if Al didn't believe him he'd have ask Jill at the house while they were installing the elaborate system.  Other times you just wonder what Al was thinking. When they ran into Tim's old high school girlfriend Al invites Stacey to Tim's house even though its clear Tim didn't want too. Then is surprised that Tim is upset.  Why is he so surprised? Al didn't know the real reason but from Tim's lack of invitation it wouldn't be stretch to think Tim didn't want to or simply wasn't interested in.   

 

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Sorry to say, Tim made comments about Al's mother, but so did everyone else. Even at the funeral they were all: "Dear God! How fat was this woman?" 

That's an excellent point! Tim made comments about Al's mother but so did everyone else! But Tim was the only one who ever got in trouble for it. Why was it okay for everyone make jokes but not him?  Throughout the series Jill made jokes, all three boys made jokes, Benny, Harry, I think even Wilson made a couple. I really disliked the comments at the funeral. I thought that was really terrible and a crappy way to support Al. 

[readster]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah that was one of his worse traits. When Tim joked and goofed around he was joking. He admitted to Al around season two or three that he did that because that's how he treated all of his brothers. Al knows that. Al revealing information was just to be mean. Why did he have to do that? It doesn't really make him come off better or funny. Just mean. Also, what bugs me about it is Tim's treated like he made another mistake in that episode that his neighbors signed the petition. But the security system was JILL'S fault. Yes Tim thought about going overboard but then thought about it and went for the simpler model. But this time it was JILL who was upset (and still scared about Wilson's house being broken into) and told him to go wild. But somehow it ends up still being Tim's fault. I buy the neighbors not knowing that but I don't buy that Al didn't. Tim would have told him that and even if Al didn't believe him he'd have ask Jill at the house while they were installing the elaborate system.  Other times you just wonder what Al was thinking. When they ran into Tim's old high school girlfriend Al invites Stacey to Tim's house even though its clear Tim didn't want too. Then is surprised that Tim is upset.  Why is he so surprised? Al didn't know the real reason but from Tim's lack of invitation it wouldn't be stretch to think Tim didn't want to or simply wasn't interested in.   

Also at times when Al was clueless about things. I remember when Jill turned the entire hot rod engine party into a set up party and Al was constantly telling Jill he loved the idea of various foods and so forth. I also remember when Tim was arguing with Al when he was taking care of the boys and he just ate all the small snacks in the house. I get that Al wasn't expecting that the raw meat at the restaurant was going to be bad. However, most adults who are taking care of kids usually don't just eat everything in the house. I also remember when Al was talking at the support group that he found Tim making fun of his flannel tiresome. Yet, it was all he wore and at times he would have TWO pairs. One for work and then change into the EXACT same shirt after Tool Time was finished. What was Al expecting?

 

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That's an excellent point! Tim made comments about Al's mother but so did everyone else! But Tim was the only one who ever got in trouble for it. Why was it okay for everyone make jokes but not him?  Throughout the series Jill made jokes, all three boys made jokes, Benny, Harry, I think even Wilson made a couple. I really disliked the comments at the funeral. I thought that was really terrible and a crappy way to support Al. 

 

I agree, I think the funeral was in poor taste, but seriously, it was Tim who got in trouble from Al on the comments. Everyone else knew that Alma was on her way to a quick death the way she ate and lived. I know we love our parents, but there is also a point where you know what they are doing isn't good for them.

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 5:31 AM, readster said:

Also at times when Al was clueless about things. I remember when Jill turned the entire hot rod engine party into a set up party and Al was constantly telling Jill he loved the idea of various foods and so forth. I also remember when Tim was arguing with Al when he was taking care of the boys and he just ate all the small snacks in the house. I get that Al wasn't expecting that the raw meat at the restaurant was going to be bad. However, most adults who are taking care of kids usually don't just eat everything in the house. I also remember when Al was talking at the support group that he found Tim making fun of his flannel tiresome. Yet, it was all he wore and at times he would have TWO pairs. One for work and then change into the EXACT same shirt after Tool Time was finished. What was Al expecting?

He was clueless. Why would he ask Tim if it was theme party? It wasn't a birthday party, Halloween or anything and if it was a theme Tim would have said so. We're having a costume party Saturday! He didn't so why would he think there would be? Does Tim throw a lot of theme parties that made him think that? He doesn't really seem like the type. I don't know why he ate Tim and Jill out of house and home when he babysit for a few hours.  A snack would make sense but that much? He eats a bunch then but when the boys are staying with him for that weekend suddenly its rice cakes and stuff? It would have made more sense then for them to eat a lot of snacks and stuff. I did like that Tim warned Al about that trick the boys played on him with the shaving cream. I liked him talking with Wilson the first time he babysat and got locked out of the house. He wanted kids but babysitting the Taylor boys made him rethink that. I can imagine many,  many babysitters thought the same thing after babysitting them. But its also very common after babysitting kids and have that make you rethink that one. 

 

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I agree, I think the funeral was in poor taste, but seriously, it was Tim who got in trouble from Al on the comments. Everyone else knew that Alma was on her way to a quick death the way she ate and lived. I know we love our parents, but there is also a point where you know what they are doing isn't good for them.

 

There is and if the jokes had been more along the lines of that I'd agree but I still think its poor taste to comment and keep joking about her size at her funeral and knowing how upset Al (and Cal) was. The thing that confused me is Tim has make jokes for years about Alma and Al has always gotten mad. But then when he's saying a few words Tim says that Alma was never upset by those jokes. Then why was Al getting so upset? If his own mother thought they were funny. Then what was the problem?  

[readster]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

There is and if the jokes had been more along the lines of that I'd agree but I still think its poor taste to comment and keep joking about her size at her funeral and knowing how upset Al (and Cal) was. The thing that confused me is Tim has make jokes for years about Alma and Al has always gotten mad. But then when he's saying a few words Tim says that Alma was never upset by those jokes. Then why was Al getting so upset? If his own mother thought they were funny. Then what was the problem?  

That's the problem, because it means that it was Al that had the problem all those years if Alma thought they were funny too. Which means that Alma knew who she was, she knew she was unhealthy, over ate and knew she had Al and Cal on a short list because they were so loyal to her thanks to their father. That means too things, that not only do they know who they are, they understand to others it seems odd, but they laugh along with them. Which is a good thing, they accept who they are. However, when they also know that they can snap their fingers and have people obey them without question. That's not a good thing. What if Alma wanted Al to pay her bills at the possibility of Al or Cal going into debt? Yet, playing the: "I'm your mother" card. Then that's a problem. Like I said, Alma dying and Al and Trudy getting married was always the plan for season 8. They were not expecting it to be their last. So, they shifted things around to fit in with the Taylors leaving Michigan thanks to Morgan screwing up Tool Time. The finale was always planned on Al and Trudy getting married, but it wasn't suppose to be in the backyard or with Wilson officating. That was written later. The main plot points when the writers were doing season 8 was: "Brad will suffer and injury and question if he will go to college." "Al and Trudy will get married, but Al's mother will die in the middle." "Jill will FINALLY finish school." They had to fit in JTT wanting to leave the show and bringing Marty, the Twins and Jeff on the show more regularly later. Marty was suppose to live with Tim and Jill for the foreseeable future until the show was going to end. Why they had Marty moving on in his life and getting his own place again. 

 I do wish we would have seen Rick and John the other two brothers. They were mentioned since season 1. It would have been great to see who they were and where they were in life. We know that Rick was in just as bad of shape as Jeff, but John? Outside not wanting to see Tim since he was picked on all the time. We knew almost nothing about him. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, readster said:

That's the problem, because it means that it was Al that had the problem all those years if Alma thought they were funny too. Which means that Alma knew who she was, she knew she was unhealthy, over ate and knew she had Al and Cal on a short list because they were so loyal to her thanks to their father. That means too things, that not only do they know who they are, they understand to others it seems odd, but they laugh along with them. Which is a good thing, they accept who they are. However, when they also know that they can snap their fingers and have people obey them without question. That's not a good thing. What if Alma wanted Al to pay her bills at the possibility of Al or Cal going into debt? Yet, playing the: "I'm your mother" card. Then that's a problem. Like I said, Alma dying and Al and Trudy getting married was always the plan for season 8. They were not expecting it to be their last. So, they shifted things around to fit in with the Taylors leaving Michigan thanks to Morgan screwing up Tool Time. The finale was always planned on Al and Trudy getting married, but it wasn't suppose to be in the backyard or with Wilson officating. That was written later. The main plot points when the writers were doing season 8 was: "Brad will suffer and injury and question if he will go to college." "Al and Trudy will get married, but Al's mother will die in the middle." "Jill will FINALLY finish school." They had to fit in JTT wanting to leave the show and bringing Marty, the Twins and Jeff on the show more regularly later. Marty was suppose to live with Tim and Jill for the foreseeable future until the show was going to end. Why they had Marty moving on in his life and getting his own place again. 

Alma sounds very contradictory. She loved Tim's jokes which means she found the jokes funny and didn't mind them being about her weigh. She felt good enough about herself that she laughed at those jokes. Which is good. She also managed to raise her sons to settle any dispute they had with each other . That's how she should feel. But then she's also the type to snap her fingers at Al to make him hop and constantly tried to keep him as close as possible. At the expense of allowing her son to have his own life and relationships with friends and with his girlfriend.  I wonder if she did the same thing to Cal. My guess is yes even though they didn't talk about it. I suppose after losing her husband she could be afraid that she'll lose her sons. Or she was just an overbearing mother. I kind of wish she hadn't died mostly because I wanted to see Al stand up to her. After all those years it would have been so nice to see Al stand up to his mother. To marry Trudy and start a life with her and move beyond his mother's constant interference. 

 

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I do wish we would have seen Rick and John the other two brothers. They were mentioned since season 1. It would have been great to see who they were and where they were in life. We know that Rick was in just as bad of shape as Jeff, but John? Outside not wanting to see Tim since he was picked on all the time. We knew almost nothing about him. 

I wish we had seen them too It would have been nice to see what they were like and how alike or different they were from Jeff and Marty.  Since it sounded like all four were similar. Its surprising when you look at all five Taylor brothers and Tim was the only one who ended up making something of himself. He went to college, went into sales and worked hard to become the top salesmen at Binford which lead to Tool Time. From three we see you do see some similarities. Jokes and pranks.  They had similar humor.   

[readster]

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

 

I wish we had seen them too It would have been nice to see what they were like and how alike or different they were from Jeff and Marty.  Since it sounded like all four were similar. Its surprising when you look at all five Taylor brothers and Tim was the only one who ended up making something of himself. He went to college, went into sales and worked hard to become the top salesmen at Binford which lead to Tool Time. From three we see you do see some similarities. Jokes and pranks.  They had similar humor.   

That was the thing with all of Jill's sisters (at least the ones the writers wanted to remember and write about). They had loyalty to their parents, especially their father. However, they all couldn't be more different. Linda was a health nut and divorce, Tracy was an annalist, but never apparently settled down. Carrie was always on the road for work all the time, she never even unpacked her boxes in almost 2 years. Not sure what you wanted to call Robin, except for naive at things. Yet, when you look at it and even with rewriting of continuity (or the writers didn't care), Jill was the only one with a lasting marriage and children. I always wonder why the hell Fred and Lillian weren't on the other girls more since the only grandchildren they had were the boys and to an extent, the Twins. Same goes with Lucile, so surprise she never had an argument with the other boys on things. Tim had 3 sons, Marty had 2 daughters and yet Jeff was divorced twice, Rick apparently never talked to them or had money and John was divorced too. It would have been nice if we would have gotten more on them. I mean come on, we knew Cal was a school psychologist, yet apparently: "Big guys can't get married unless they are, Al." 

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, readster said:

That was the thing with all of Jill's sisters (at least the ones the writers wanted to remember and write about). They had loyalty to their parents, especially their father. However, they all couldn't be more different. Linda was a health nut and divorce, Tracy was an annalist, but never apparently settled down. Carrie was always on the road for work all the time, she never even unpacked her boxes in almost 2 years. Not sure what you wanted to call Robin, except for naive at things. Yet, when you look at it and even with rewriting of continuity (or the writers didn't care), Jill was the only one with a lasting marriage and children. I always wonder why the hell Fred and Lillian weren't on the other girls more since the only grandchildren they had were the boys and to an extent, the Twins. Same goes with Lucile, so surprise she never had an argument with the other boys on things. Tim had 3 sons, Marty had 2 daughters and yet Jeff was divorced twice, Rick apparently never talked to them or had money and John was divorced too. It would have been nice if we would have gotten more on them. I mean come on, we knew Cal was a school psychologist, yet apparently: "Big guys can't get married unless they are, Al." 

It still surprises me that Jill, Tim and Marty were the only ones who had kids. I do wonder if how they were raised effected all five girls towards marriage. They grew up with their mother raising them and never telling their father anything. Aside from that everything else had to be done his way. Carrie is the only one who ends up traveling around the world while the other four sisters seemed to remain in one spot. She seemed to look down on marriage and raising kids from her remarks. But she really seemed to enjoy the different places she's seen until she got older and realized she never unpack her apartment. She never married until season eight when she ends up in a relationship with Jeff. Linda was divorced, Tracy never married, and Robin at least was married at one point probably a newlywed or at least married under a year given the type of fight she had with her husband. But I don't think he's ever referred to again so who knows if she remained married or divorced or was never married later. Four sisters are divorced or never married did the marriages just fall apart or were they similar to Jill who always have to be right. In the episode when their planning their parents 50th wedding anniversary the three that show up each are a determine to have things their way. One suggests an idea they like but another one has a problem with it. Even though this is a party for their parents not for them. Maybe once they left their parents house each one was determined not to end up in the same situation they grew up with or end up like their mother. All 5 sisters are very opinionated and certain they are right which could be a Patterson trait or go back to when they weren't allowed to tell their father how they feel or their opinions. How much did that effect their relationships? We see how it effects Jill. She can never admit she's wrong, when she comes up with an idea no matter how stupid or insane like Brad making his girlfriend cook and clean for him or Mark wanting to murder them.  She won't let it go and listen to anyone who tries to reason with her. Its not impossible to think Linda and Robin were the same with their husbands and ended up divorced. While Carrie picked a career that kept her on the move but also makes it hard to be in relationship. Its disappointed Jill didn't ended up with more nieces or nephews she really loved Claire and Gracie and she was so excited back when there was a Katie that she had a new niece named Sloane. It would have been cool to see Brad, Randy and Mark with cousins. Tim probably would have loved having nephews too. Also it was really cute when Tim babysat Gracie and he had so much fun with her. I'm really surprised that Jeff with two divorces didn't end up with any kids. That is kind of uncommon. Unless that was part of the reason for the divorce both wives wanted kids and he didn't? I just realized they could have had a scene between Jeff and Marty. One divorced twice and one just divorced. I do think Jeff and Marty's issues and how their lives turned out were effected by the death of their father. Its possible the other two brothers we never see had the same problem. Tim might have if he hadn't instead decided to idolize his father and want to be just like him. He ends up married with kids and very happy. 

[readster]

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While Carrie picked a career that kept her on the move but also makes it hard to be in relationship. Its disappointed Jill didn't ended up with more nieces or nephews she really loved Claire and Gracie and she was so excited back when there was a Katie that she had a new niece named Sloane. It would have been cool to see Brad, Randy and Mark with cousins. Tim probably would have loved having nephews too. Also it was really cute when Tim babysat Gracie and he had so much fun with her. I'm really surprised that Jeff with two divorces didn't end up with any kids. That is kind of uncommon. Unless that was part of the reason for the divorce both wives wanted kids and he didn't? I just realized they could have had a scene between Jeff and Marty. One divorced twice and one just divorced. I do think Jeff and Marty's issues and how their lives turned out were effected by the death of their father. Its possible the other two brothers we never see had the same problem. Tim might have if he hadn't instead decided to idolize his father and want to be just like him. He ends up married with kids and very happy. 

Those are really good points, a scene between Marty and Jeff would have been nice. Even as far as: "Take advice from your big brother who has been there twice. There will be better days." Or something to that effect. I would have enjoyed if they would have kept Katie and Sloane in continuity instead of just deciding to forget that nothing happened with the discussion in season 3. I do believe when you think about it, having the upbringing that happened in the Patterson home and the death in the Taylor home did effect how all the children went. The Patterson home was not getting attached to things because you will most likely leave in no time. Not talking about things and being very opinionated with each other like Lillian. However, always believing that if they didn't take control of the world it would fly apart like Fred's view was.  In the Taylor Home you have a divide of world views. You have one son who got to know his father, but then losing him in the middle of high school (Jeff would have graduated in 67 if Tim graduated in 71, Jill in 73). You have the youngest who never really knew his father, and wasn't there to see his hard work and determination. You have the middle two who did know, but really were raised by a single mother most of their lives. They never really knew what a adult relationship could be. Similar to when we met Jeff for the first time and he commented on how Brad, Randy and Mark acted since Tim when face first into the banister. Tim's counter should be been: "Oh really? Mr. Divorced twice, no kids and 80 jobs?"