S03.E02: Predators Far And Near

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

What Was The Most Shocking Moment Of Penny Dreadful's Mother's Day?

Hint: not...that one character reveal.

[Margherita Erdman]

On May 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, sjohnson said:

It is unclear whether Lily telling the new girl that she belongs to Lily now is supposed to be villainous. Dorian seems to be repeating the offer that Victor made to Brona as she was dying, and like Brona, the girl has consented. (Unless you idea of consent requires really being informed, in which case neither Brona nor her consented.) But the show has since committed to Lily being liberated and Doing Good Works now, so it's doubtful that can be deemed bad.

Personally I tend to suspect that the insistence that there really are such things as snuff films may be puritanical hysteria about sex. But others think it's all about the nature of male sexuality of course. So when the show tells us that snuff films were preceded by live shows when there weren't any movies, the show is committing to whatever believing in snuff films means.

I can't tell you whether snuff films exist or not, now or at the dawn of cinema, but violent pornography most certainly has a long and well-documented history, and Victorian pornography was particularly varied and lurid. The sex trade of the time was equally colorful, or dark, if you wanted it — as it is in Asia now — and as it ever is, whenever and wherever there are huge gaps in power and income.

And I think it is no accident that the new addition to Dorian and Lily's ménage is named Justine, who is also the titular character of a Marquis de Sade novella, a girl who goes from utter victim to something like the protagonist of her own story, in typical Sade-ian fashion. You can Google it if you want — I'm not linking because I just don't feel like going down that particular literary sewer at the moment.

[Hecate7]

On 5/12/2016 at 9:50 AM, sjohnson said:

The show is quite clear that paying for sex deserves capital punishment.

 

I didn't get that at all. The puffy man Lily killed seemed to recognize her, which means he may have done a lot of icky things we don't know about. He did put his hands around her neck at one point, and so perhaps she knows he's killed a few hookers in his time.  Maybe she barely survived her last encounter with him. Maybe he forced himself on her last time. Turnabout is fair play--what if men were as afraid of getting murdered by prostitutes, as women are afraid of getting murdered by johns or bad dates? What if, when a man was found dead, people asked, "well what was he doing walking alone at that time of night?" That said, I think we were meant to be horrified by Lily's murderous nature.

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His monstrousness lies solely in his possessiveness to that which he isn't man enough to aspire to, much less own. I'm sorry, I think the show is quite clear about this. I'm not getting it myself, but that's obviously just me.

I think it's more about the way he was indifferent to their free will, and to me, that's not enough to make him a villain. I only remember that Lily and John Clare are monsters when they are threatening Victor--the rest of the time they seem no worse than anyone else. I still feel for Victor, especially when he is confronted by his creatures. I don't think what he's done is half as bad as what John Clare or Ethan have done.

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Personally I tend to suspect that the insistence that there really are such things as snuff films may be puritanical hysteria about sex. But others think it's all about the nature of male sexuality of course. So when the show tells us that snuff films were preceded by live shows when there weren't any movies, the show is committing to whatever believing in snuff films means.

Although no one has ever found a snuff film, a few serial killers have filmed their crimes. And quite a lot of rapists film it and put it on the Internet, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine an underground, black market sort of cartel creating and distributing that sort of thing. Given the staggering popularity of splatter movies, horror films in which girls are punished for sex, and erotica which simulates a snuff film, it's not surprising that people would fear the existence of snuff films. Apparently there's no need for them, because good filmmakers can simulate that kind of thing without actually having to kill anybody. I don't think it's about "puritanical hysteria about sex," so much as the belief that getting naked in front of a camera for money for people you've never heard of before could turn out to be horribly dangerous.

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As I recall there was a line that I understood as, Brona was no longer taking money from Ethan. 

Yep. Brona said something about how in the future she and Ethan would have sex "like everyone else, after you've paid." She took it back by morning, too, so Ethan was never really a john, even though Brona was a prostitute by trade.

[Hecate7]

On 5/24/2016 at 4:21 PM, Margherita Erdman said:

I can't tell you whether snuff films exist or not, now or at the dawn of cinema, but violent pornography most certainly has a long and well-documented history, and Victorian pornography was particularly varied and lurid. The sex trade of the time was equally colorful, or dark, if you wanted it — as it is in Asia now — and as it ever is, whenever and wherever there are huge gaps in power and income.

And I think it is no accident that the new addition to Dorian and Lily's ménage is named Justine, who is also the titular character of a Marquis de Sade novella, a girl who goes from utter victim to something like the protagonist of her own story, in typical Sade-ian fashion. You can Google it if you want — I'm not linking because I just don't feel like going down that particular literary sewer at the moment.

It is also the name of the attractive young housekeeper hanged for killing Victor's brother because of a locket the monster slipped into her pocket.

[millennium]

I've been watching the series on Netflix and Season 3 became available only yesterday.

For the first time in this series, this episode felt ... recycled.   Wasn't it just last season Malcolm was unwittingly seduced by the evil Madame Kali?   Now Vanessa is seduced by the evil Dr. Sweet?    Patti Lupone did such a terrific job as Joan Clayton that I am actually disappointed to see her return as an ersatz Joan Clayton.   I don't like the Renfield character.   As someone noted upthread, why did Dracula need someone on the inside if he was going to seduce Vanessa?  Between her attraction to him and his hypnotic powers, he could have gotten anything he wanted from her.  The whole Dracula storyline leaves me feeling ho-hum simply because the story has been done to death.   Even in the previous episode, when he announced "My name is Dracula," it seemed terribly anti-climactic.   Possibly the worst part of the whole thing is that Van Helsing is already dead.

I don't find Hecate a very compelling character and the actress is a bit bland herself.   No Helen McCrory, that's for sure.

Edited September 18, 2016 by millennium

[Hanahope]

Watching the third season on Netflix too.  I'm curious as to whether Ethan was born Apache or 'became' Apache when he became a werewolf.  

Yes, I was not surprised that Dracula turned out to be Dr. Sweet.

Did Vanessa inform her doctor about the cut-wife too?