S12.E11: Unbreak My Heart

[OtterMommy]

13 hours ago, mdw said:

There's a brief article in EW, with an update of the upcoming storylines. There are quotes from Shonda Rimes. Re. April and Jackson, she said something like they will deal with co-parenting as exes who still have feelings for each other. She made it sound like one of them might try to undermine the other's dating life. I hope I'm interpreting this wrong. I don't want either of them to get in other relationships. Most likely, if one of them were to date someone else, it would be Jackson. He's gorgeous and has an even personality.

If I'm thinking of the same article, I read something different out of it...what I got--and I admit it may be wishful thinking--it signaled a reconciliation between the two.  But, I could be wrong....

[apn85]

59 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

If I'm thinking of the same article, I read something different out of it...what I got--and I admit it may be wishful thinking--it signaled a reconciliation between the two.  But, I could be wrong....

It did make me think, or at least hope, that eventually they would find their way back to one another, but not without some obstacles along the way. I hope I am right when I say that I don't think these dates, whoever goes on them, will be anything serious. I don't even think as serious as the Matthew and Stephanie arc. I'm hoping it is just another stepping stone along the path to reconciliation. Shonda claimed it was going to be "fun" so who knows. Shonda has said a lot in the past. 

[mdw]

3 hours ago, apn85 said:

It did make me think, or at least hope, that eventually they would find their way back to one another, but not without some obstacles along the way. I hope I am right when I say that I don't think these dates, whoever goes on them, will be anything serious. I don't even think as serious as the Matthew and Stephanie arc. I'm hoping it is just another stepping stone along the path to reconciliation. Shonda claimed it was going to be "fun" so who knows. Shonda has said a lot in the past. 

I hope you and Ottermom are right.

Edited September 9, 2016 by mdw

[Scatterbrained]

Ah, so much good conversation going on!  And I've been too busy dealing with real life stuff to jump in.  This is my best scatterbrained attempt.  Bear with me, please!  :)

 

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By mdw: Sometimes, I feel I have to really stretch my imagination as an audience member of this show to make sense of or accept some of the writing.

YEP!  Totally agree!

Somehow, I'd always imagined that April payed for her own wedding, although her parents may have chipped in.  They leave a lot of real-life details out on this show.

Don't worry about posting so much.  It's what keeps this place going.  :)

Regarding your thoughts on the whole lawyering up debacle:  

I read an article about production and it includes this tidbit:

Quote

HULLFISH: Tell me a little but about the schedule. You said it’s a break-neck pace. What’s the shooting schedule on one of the shows? And then how much time do you get after those shooting days for the director’s cut, the producer’s cut and so on?

MITACEK: The way we’ve been doing things on “Greys” is 24 episodes.  Which is not quite as common nowadays.  We start somewhere in July and we typically wrap in May. We build up a surplus of episodes before we start airing. Then obviously we’re airing them faster than we can produce them. So at the beginning of the season, we’ve got more time. Typically, we have a 9 day shoot and then, when we get the last bit of dailies, we’ll probably have 2 days to complete an editor’s cut. Then the director comes in for 4 days. Then the producers get 4 days. Then we send the cut to the studio and network and we lock the next day. That’s the schedule at the beginning of the season. Plus we have a certain number of days for sound teams and the composer and all that and then we come to our final mix, lay the show down and get it all out and ready to go. By the time we get to the season finale, that’s truncated to maybe a fifth of that time.  Typically with the finale we might end up shooting 10 days.  Maybe even 11 days, depending on if it’s an event episode, or if they’re a number of locations, or its just technically more challenging.  We might have something like an explosion or a car accident or any number of things that can stretch those shooting dates. But now I am cutting the season finale which had a 10-day shoot ending with final dailies coming on a Friday; turning over the editors cut on Saturday; turning over the director’s cut on Sunday; turning over the Producer’s cut on Monday; and then deliver the show on a Tuesday.

So it seems as if towards the end everyone is racing against the clock, and I can imagine that storylines might get a little sloppy, if they are not well thought out.

I feel that the writers sort of realized they wrote a little out of character, and so they threw in that Riggs to Maggie line, "family makes you crazy" in the OR theater which April overhears and seems to ponder.  I feel as if it was the writers' way of explaining their way out of the situation by declaring that sometimes family issues are so frought with emotion that you can do things that are out of character.  

I suppose that since April hasn't really talked to Catherine in at least a year and returned as "Kepner 2.0" Catherine isn't really sure who or what she is dealing with anymore when it comes to April.  Also, Catherine may feel a bit upset that April hurt her son so much.

Regarding apn's post:  I agree.  I feel, if anything, that Catherine would employ tactical diplomacy.  I still think at some point she will rope April into "the Foundation" as a way of keeping her family close and her "adversary" closer.  

This next bit addresses some of the conversation you both have been having.  I just want to get my 2 cents in.  I've never really thought about what kind of woman Catherine would like for Jackson, other than she would like to find her approvable, somehow.  I do imagine her as being judgemental and having high standards.  

I've always felt that Catherine's life mixed parenting with her profession.  That Jackson never had a stay-at-home mom who could be super-nurturing and cuddly.  I've always imagined that she visited Mercy West partly to visit her son but also to conduct business (guest lecturer or presenter or something) and that the ever eager April introduced herself to her idol then and they became social media buddies.  

I've always imagined that some of Jackson's "Harper Avery angst" came partly from not being able to have a mother who could just be a mother and partly from having people try to get close to him because they are interested in the Foundation and not him as a person.

I think some of the attraction towards April is that she is more homey than a lot of the other girls he's encountered (she cooked, cleaned, and grocery shopped for their shared households) and the Foundation has never really been on her radar.

When Stephanie wanted to meet his mom, she said she wanted to project an image of someone who is not a gold-digger, and I thought, "Yep!  She's a gold-digger!"  Or at least "ambitious".  I always felt that Catherine never took her seriously.  That she tolerated her amicably because she knew Stephanie was a distraction that wouldn't last.

If April does get integrated into the Foundation in some way, I think there will be some internal emotional conflicts and angst for Jackson.  I do feel from the time she became chief resident that they've been building up to April taking some sort of role, as she always "rises to the occasion" surprising those around her.

I hate the thought of either of them dating with a new baby (at least wait a year to let the new parent dust settle).  I guess I could see someone joining a "single parent support group" and maybe having a few coffee/play dates with another parent of the opposite sex.  Nothing terribly serious.  (My heart can't take it!). I guess we will find out soon enough!

[mdw]

I've enjoyed this whole discussion. I never thought about part of Jackson's attraction to April being her homey qualities and lack of awareness of/attention to the whole Avery thing. I really liked your analysis of this. April seemed truly shocked when she hears how much money the foundation controls. 

My favorite Catherine Avery episode is the one where Samuel dies. I loved how she counsels April and talks her through what will happen after Samuel is born. She was full of love and wisdom. She treats April as her own  daughter. The look Catherine and Jackson exchange when April mentions praying for a miracle - I agree with Apn that it's one of the most heartbreaking moments of the episode. April looks so desperate and helpless at that moment and they are so concerned - it is a very beautiful moment. I love in that episode that Catherine gives April and Jackson the privacy they asked for but is completely there for them. I loved her scenes with Webber, both in the chapel and at the end. She is very direct about asking him to be there for her when she is at her most vulnerable.

I agree with what everyone says about how nice Catherine and April's relationship was up to her confronting them on their marriage and how supportive it became once Catherine accepted it. I thought it was very cute in the beginning too how April is Catherine's No. 1 fan and how she was Facebook friends with Catherine. I loved the scene from the Japril episode when April asks if Jackson is related to Catherine Avery when they first meet. 

My least favorite Catherine moments, apart from how she was in season 12, usually had to do with her arrogance as a preeminent surgeon and the way she tries to control her adult son's life. In her first appearance on GA when she does the penis transplant, I found her super annoying and I thought her behavior toward Mark Sloane was appalling. She also showed a complete lack of acceptance of her son as an adult. At this point, he's about 30. (I did like how Catherine bought that guy a drink at the bar on April's behalf to try to help April along with dating. I also liked how she picked up right away that Sloane was in love with Lexie.)

[An aside: Sometimes I think GA has too many characters who are openly arrogant about their professional talent. I'm thinking of Amelia and Stephanie and also Erica Hahn. With Bailey and Cristina, it never bugged me because their pride in their talent was so integral to who their characters are, and they both are so brutally honest about everything as to forego many of the social niceties. Meredith is a good example of someone extremely talented and successful without being in your face about it.]

Anyways...

Catherine Avery at her most terrifying: when Bailey is operating on Webber in S9 and Catherine is banging on the window of the observation deck and commanding Bailey to stop. When I saw that, I was just like "Holy Crap!"

My favorite funny Catherine scene is when she and Richard are having a fight in their bedroom about her being a meddler, even though this scene is part of the sl I disliked in S 12. Debbie Allen is very entertaining in this scene.

I hope that April and Catherine's clash that the episode 1 description refers to is a resolution to their conflict in s12. I would be interested if April had an increased role in the HA foundation. I'd like it if the character had an additional sl outside of her romantic relationship with Jackson. I also hope that they depict April and Jackson as more hands-on parents than most if not all the characters with children appear. 

Mostly, my hope for the 1st episode is to see some adorable and romantic scenes of April, Jackson, and the baby with April and Jackson exchanging heartfelt looks. I want a baby-naming scene. For the season, I hope Shonda does give them a lighter hearted story, but I hope they still get screen time.

[aprilbabe]

On September 9, 2016 at 2:38 AM, apn85 said:

I saw this and think the opposite, actually. 

I think April is just as capable of turning heads and having someone interested in her. Actually, in my opinion, April has a greater chance of catching the eye of someone that would be interested in a serious relationship and accepting that she has a child. Jackson is very attractive, yes, but there are way more gold digging women prowling around out there. I could see Jackson going on dates, but I am not really worried about him moving on to another serious relationship. 

If I had to wager a guess right now solely based on my opinion and nothing else, I think Jackson is going to be the one that doesn't like April dating and acting accordingly. Not getting what he wants isn't something he is very familiar with. Last season, or at least the first half, was all about April fighting for Jackson. She didn't want the divorce and only gave in when she finally allowed herself to accept the fact that he didn't want her any longer. She threw everything she had at it, but in the end he still chose to call it. In Grey's time, that was at least 9 months ago. She has had a long while to come to terms with how they ended. By the end of last season she honestly seemed to completely accept the fact that they would co-parent their baby. Nothing more and nothing less. She didn't seem at all in denial about where they stood. She seemed focused on her baby and at peace where Jackson was concerned. 

Jackson, on the other hand, was bogged down in so much anger that when he finally resurfaced I don't think he had dealt with everything April has concerning their relationship. I don't think he had come to the same realization. I have read several people mention the scene at Joe's between the two of them toward the end of the season where they were discussing custody arrangements. To me, April looked miserable there. She was there, she was willing to compromise and be amicable, but I don't think she was happy that she was sitting there discussing custody arrangements about a baby she'd not yet given birth to. That isn't what an expectant Mother wants to do. I don't think it was because she was still pining for Jackson at all. Jackson seemed way more upbeat in that scene, which I recall rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way. I use it as an example of the point I am trying to get back around to - I think when Jackson resurfaced from underneath the anger that he didn't realize just how deeply he had succeeded in hurting April. Justified or not, he successfully hurt her as bad as he felt he was hurt. Which is absolutely what I think all those antics, including the divorce, were about. Hurting her as badly as he possibly could. 

 

It's a whole different ballgame with Jackson. 

I agree with everything you have said, I think Jackson hurt and anger was so deep, that it completely overshadowed his love for her. It completely consumed him. I think the hurt and anger outweighed the love so much that it probably felt nonexistent to him.  I think Jackson hurt and anger is slowing starting to dissolve, and may even be pretty much gone by the end of the last season. So now he's just left with the love, but he doesn't have  April. I don't think he's come to terms with reality of the divorce yet, even though he wanted it. I don't think he understands how its going to feel to have a child with April but not be with her. Whereas I feel April has already come to terms with it.

[apn85]

On 9/11/2016 at 9:34 PM, aprilbabe said:

I agree with everything you have said, I think Jackson hurt and anger was so deep, that it completely overshadowed his love for her. It completely consumed him. I think the hurt and anger outweighed the love so much that it probably felt nonexistent to him.  I think Jackson hurt and anger is slowing starting to dissolve, and may even be pretty much gone by the end of the last season. So now he's just left with the love, but he doesn't have  April. I don't think he's come to terms with reality of the divorce yet, even though he wanted it. I don't think he understands how its going to feel to have a child with April but not be with her. Whereas I feel April has already come to terms with it.

Absolutely! In total agreement with this statement. 

I think what you said - "So now he's just left with the love, but he doesn't have April." - is a perfect way of looking at it. 

For me, it was never a case of falling out of love with her. I think his anger grew to such heights because of how much he loved her. No matter how hard he tried, he couldn't stop loving her. His anger took over, motivated him to take whatever actions he felt were necessary, but it couldn't make his heart get on the same page. 

I will forever be bitter about them wasting their 2 hour episode last season on that mess with Ben earlier in the season. Even if it was setting the scene for what happened with April later. The finale contained way too much for a 40-45 minute slot of time. I love a good dose of drama, but one of my very best friends makes Shonda look like a writer for Sesame Street what with the drama she wishes would happen LOL She was upset the NDE wasn't worse in the finale. She wanted Jackson having to stand by helpless and witness April bleeding out or coding and the episode ends with him and Arizona making eye contact and you didn't know if Arizona had gotten her back or if she was looking up before calling it. I said while it would have made for good television, I could NOT have survived from May until September wondering of April lived or died. Nor am I sure I'm THAT angry at Jackson LOL. Her point was the NDE wasn't good enough to knock some sense into him. 

I think it was. 

I think despite not seeing everything due to the insane time constraints, that April's condition was more touch and go when she arrived to the hospital. When Bailey came out and told him that April was stable, I think the relief we saw was because he honestly didn't know what the outcome would be. I don't know if they'll touch on specifics of her ordeal in 13x01 or not, but I do think she was in serious condition and that Jackson was honestly scared. I also liked that while he waited, he was holding the baby. It was a small detail, one that wasn't necessary, but it was just very Jackson for me. He is a good guy. He's always been a good guy, regardless of certain actions he has taken, and I think that was just another example of who he is. He couldn't do a thing for April, but their daughter was safe with him and was going to be fine. I'm sure it was a way for the audience to see the baby, but he could have very well left her in the nursery while he worried about April. 

I just imagine a certain type of clarity comes along with not knowing if someone you truly love will live or die. I imagine it calls a lot into question. Yeah, a really crappy thing happened to us and in turn we acted really crappy toward one another, but isn't it time we finally rise above all of that? Isn't this little girl we have now worth more than all of that? Doesn't she deserve the same parents our son was going to have? I know those things would run through my mind, so I can only hope it crosses theirs. Or well....Shonda's. :P 

I have no problem with a lighthearted situation where Jackson and April are concerned. After the past few seasons, I am actually all for it, but I really don't want to deal with any pointless, unnecessary crap just for the sake of drama. Leave that to all the others. From the sound of it, they have it more than taken care of, so let's leave Japril alone for once! 

Edited September 14, 2016 by apn85

[mdw]

So far, I've enjoyed all of the April and Jackson scenes. I was disappointed in the first episode that we didn't see a scene between the two of them alone with the baby but, otherwise, have been happy.

I really loved the scene where he tells her he doesn't want her to move out. It was full of emotion. It seemed that the next emotionally logical step would have been for either or both of them to consider whether or not they wanted to get back together.

I also thought the scene of the two of them in the car checking on Harriet's car scene was very cute. They seemed to be a happy little family unit.

While I enjoyed watching the April and Jackson parts of the episode, it doesn't really make sense for them to keep living together and not to be a couple. He is unhappy about her dating despite his encouragement. She gave him a couple of covert looks that seemed to indicate that she felt a little sad that he seemed ok with her dating. Jackson's feelings of jealousy and pain are only going to get worse if she becomes involved with someone else. It also seems unlikely for someone to want to get involved with either of them given that they are exes living together. It seems that living together would prevent both of them from finding someone else. April's point about needing boundaries was right. (That said, I want them to get back together this season and want to continue to see them edge their way back to each other.)

I feel like Jackson is going to tell April that the two of them living together may not be a good idea if they are starting to think about dating. I don't know. It could go either way.