S12.E11: Unbreak My Heart

[Scatterbrained]

On July 24, 2016 at 6:23 PM, apn85 said:

for example - Jackson's conversation with Ben. He's tried so hard to tell himself that he was over April. He went on that date. The scene where Ben and Jackson are talking about his troubles with Bailey and Ben tells him that's he's pissed but Miranda is the love of his life. "I mean you get it, you've got April!" Jackson's response, again, was him trying hard to be over her.

I agree 100% with the emotional honesty thing. They both have so many issues! Maybe one day they'll get it all figured out. 

 

I took that exchange as Ben recognizing that Jackson and April are totally "mint to be" (haha!).  I felt that he was sort of the voice of the people in Grey's world.  That everyone around them sees that they should be together, they just don't see it themselves yet (again).  I also felt that him insisting upon paying his half of the last joint bill was him not being able to be distant and disengaged.  

Sarah Drew posted some onset selfies.  Debbie Allen is in one and she looks like she is in costume.  Looks like Mama Avery shows up right away! (I'm guessing).

[apn85]

I saw those pictures and I agree! I also think Catherine will be in the episode! Debbie wasn't wearing her normal director attire, so I thought the same thing. Mama Avery hears the news and swoops in. Should be interesting!

Any speculation on what they name the baby? There is nothing logical they could use to incorporate Ben. "Nothing logical" being the key phrase there. It's Grey's, so anything is possible. I saw someone say they could see them using Samantha to name her for Samuel. I could see that. I don't love it, but hey, not my fictional baby! :P 

[Scatterbrained]

In another thread, I posted that Mercy Grace might be a good name, since they met at Mercy West and then became really close at Seattle Grace.  Plus they could both use a little mercy and grace in their lives with EVERYTHING they have gone through.  Hope is also a good name and also something they could use.  In my opinion, Ben should be relegated to godparent.  

I wonder if/what/how much April's family knows.  I also wonder if she had a baby shower and how she and Jackson (together or separately) prepared for the baby (like the purchasing of nursery stuff and baby gear and nanny/daycare preparations).

[apn85]

I would have hope for a name unrelated to anything on the show, but their track record doesn't give me much hope. Maybe so! First time for everything!

This pregnancy was rushed so, that who knows how much preparation was done. We have never even been shown where Jackson lives now. He bought April a baby bed in that one episode. That is about it far as preparation. I am also curious as to how much April's family knows. Before seeing pictures of them filming 13x01, I thought it would pick up a few weeks later (not enough of a time jump to where current stories couldn't believably flow) and maybe April would already be home with the baby and over the initial recovery/able to do her own thing. However, since it appears it is literally picking up right where the finale left off, she's still in the hospital. Realistically, she cannot take that baby home all by herself with no help. I don't know if Jackson will be the one to take them home and stay or if Mama Kepner will appear (though haven't heard of any guest appearances) and do the honors, creating tension and issues with Jackson from that angle. 

I don't know where they are going with these two and I know the kids aren't on there too terribly much, but if they are going to continue being separated and living apart then at least give us a few scenes of Jackson doing this whole thing by himself. I can only imagine how entertaining that could be. Up and down all night with a small baby and then getting himself and her ready in the morning and to work/daycare. With the rule of you can't call your Mom or her Mom. :P If we have to do this joint custody crap, at least throw us an entertaining bone or two! I think Jackson will be a great Dad, but he's admitted himself he has no idea what to do with a baby, so I'd just have to get some popcorn and sit back! 

Edited August 7, 2016 by apn85

[mdw]

I stand to be corrected!  My username is TOTALLY legit.  

I had a different read on the prenatal appointment scenes.  To me it felt like he wanted to touch her, touch the belly, but, after the "it's my body, you have no rights" speech, AND the restraining order, didn't want to invade her space.  I thought he was just respecting what he thought were her wishes.  After the parking lot ceasefire where she let him feel the baby kick, they started to become friends again, but it's a tenuous relationship.  As far as not getting into the April-Arizona back-and-forth, I think he was more focused on attempting to read the medical information and make sense of it himself (and not freak out) and also let the girls hash it out amongst themselves since he knows they have a strong relationship with each other that he isn't really part of, to the point where Arizona was the first person to know about the baby, and is basically April's "person".  She's the confident and shoulder to cry on.  I don't think he wanted to get in the middle of that, or get caught in the middle of that.

I think they both have a problem with emotional honesty.  He has walls up and she feels inadequate and has a tendency to fail at her attempts at "doing the right thing".

I interpreted him reaching out to touch her and then retracting his arm as him wanting to maintain boundaries. His impulse is to touch her as though she is still his wife but he realizes they are no longer married and refrains from touching her. He does this again in the penultimate episode. There is a little snippet showing the two of them. She is asking if he got a picture of an ultrasound that she sent him and he reaches out to touch her belly and then withdraws it. I think it shows that he is still in love with her but wants to remain divorced and doesn't want to give in to his feelings.

[mdw]

Oh you can call it an arc. Absolutely. I just meant they could have gone the route of them grieving and healing together rather than, as you described perfectly, all their problems playing out off screen. I know some of it had to do with SD having a baby and being on maternity leave right in the middle of all that. Also like you mentioned, they had to speed things along for the Meredith story line. I'm sure some of it couldn't be prevented. I just wish if they had gone there that they would have really done a great job with it. 

As for the PTSD/PPD thing.....see I could totally see them going there now. The delivery/fear of losing another baby/parenting a newborn/etc just tipped her right on over whereas she was able to keep it together (depending on what your definition of together may be....) just enough to where nobody really picked up on it. Also, that would just drag the crap on for another season! How typical would that be!

Another thing I thought was SO weird about the finale episode was the old lady that had dementia and stabbed her son? Her thinking Jackson was her husband and some of the things she said to him - totally meant for us to read between the lines but I couldn't figure out why. Like her saying to him something along the lines of "You were supposed to take care of me. That is what a husband does." and Jackson standing there looking all guilty. I cannot figure out why that whole exchange with the lady happened and those things were said to him unless they were trying to set something up. I would say just for the sake of humor, but there was just something about it. Up to that point - Jackson and April had come to an agreement about the baby and as far as we knew had been living amicably. They called the truce at Joe's a few episodes earlier and hadn't had a fight since. So that is the only thing. I just had the thought of something happening with April this season that could explain all of the before and he left her without seeing what was really going on. Not saying he wasn't justified. 

Though you are probably right....it's probably all this independent woman hear me roar April 2.0 shit. I am all for independent women. However, when it causes as much trouble as it has caused April....check yourself!

And Lord knows we see things all the time that seem like they mean something and it's never mentioned again. May have been all the old lady was in the finale. A way to keep Jackson occupied so he wouldn't be able to get to April at Meredith's. 

I thought that the storyline with the old lady who had dementia mirrored Jackson's feelings and point of view toward April abandoning him to go to Jordan when he needed her and continuing to extend her stay.

[mdw]

  On July 23, 2016 at 6:10 AM, Scatterbrained said:

 

I've thought about this a lot, too, and the only "clever" idea (term used loosely) is that April wanted him to go with her both times and he refused, so maybe he is starting to evolve his thinking from "she left me" to "I should have been there WITH her" because we need an evolution in order for them to get back together.

She didn't ask him to go the first time, did she? The second time, after she'd already made up her mind to leave him, was a wtf moment for me. Are we meant to have been hoping he'd say yes? But he did try to make the plane anyway. Apparently Jackson is a special kind of masochist. 

My feeling is they're retconning Jackson as a crappy husband to make the breakup seem more equitable. Their initial split was one-sided and it's hard to imagine how they get a reunion out of that. 

I interpreted this as his thinking parallels the old woman. Her words reflect to him believing that he is her husband are similar to what he tells April in Unbreak My Heart. The old woman says, "You left me...you left me all alone. You should have been there for me. That's what a husband does." In episode 11, Jackson tells April, "You left me. You walked away. You ran halfway across the world." He further explains how he was covering up his own pain over Samuel's death to take care of her, how he was putting her first because that's what people who are married do for each other. When the old woman starts crying and begging, "Don't leave me. Don't leave me again," the pain she expresses mirrors his suffering which is shown in Unbreak My Heart when he destroys all the furniture in the nursery. It also foreshadows the devastation that he would feel were April to have died in childbirth.

[mdw]

Oh you can call it an arc. Absolutely. I just meant they could have gone the route of them grieving and healing together rather than, as you described perfectly, all their problems playing out off screen. I know some of it had to do with SD having a baby and being on maternity leave right in the middle of all that. Also like you mentioned, they had to speed things along for the Meredith story line. I'm sure some of it couldn't be prevented. I just wish if they had gone there that they would have really done a great job with it. 

As for the PTSD/PPD thing.....see I could totally see them going there now. The delivery/fear of losing another baby/parenting a newborn/etc just tipped her right on over whereas she was able to keep it together (depending on what your definition of together may be....) just enough to where nobody really picked up on it. Also, that would just drag the crap on for another season! How typical would that be!

Another thing I thought was SO weird about the finale episode was the old lady that had dementia and stabbed her son? Her thinking Jackson was her husband and some of the things she said to him - totally meant for us to read between the lines but I couldn't figure out why. Like her saying to him something along the lines of "You were supposed to take care of me. That is what a husband does." and Jackson standing there looking all guilty. I cannot figure out why that whole exchange with the lady happened and those things were said to him unless they were trying to set something up. I would say just for the sake of humor, but there was just something about it. Up to that point - Jackson and April had come to an agreement about the baby and as far as we knew had been living amicably. They called the truce at Joe's a few episodes earlier and hadn't had a fight since. So that is the only thing. I just had the thought of something happening with April this season that could explain all of the before and he left her without seeing what was really going on. Not saying he wasn't justified. 

Though you are probably right....it's probably all this independent woman hear me roar April 2.0 shit. I am all for independent women. However, when it causes as much trouble as it has caused April....check yourself!

And Lord knows we see things all the time that seem like they mean something and it's never mentioned again. May have been all the old lady was in the finale. A way to keep Jackson occupied so he wouldn't be able to get to April at Meredith's. 

It seems like up until the last two episodes in season 11, Jackson and April are grieving and healing together. Sometimes it seems that the writers decide where they want the story to end and then back write the characters scenes (actions, dialogue) to get the characters to that endpoint. What I found depressing about the direction they took Jackson and April's story in season 12 was that, just like in Callie and Arizona's situation with Arizona losing her leg, the characters couldn't weather a tragedy as a couple.

[mdw]

Ever since April came back from the ME with a brand-new personality, I thought they were setting up for a PTSD or PPD storyline that would somehow explain everything. Especially when we heard there'd be a flashback episode. But the longer the season went on, the less likely it became. And it seems a bit late now (unless the traumatic delivery triggers something big). Now I think they were just going for some hamfisted "independent woman" storyline, which probably means that Kepner 2.0 is here to stay. 

Yeah, the Samuel "arc" has been disappointing. (Can I call it an arc? It's been dragging on for two seasons now) I don't think the baby dying was necessarily the part that sunk it, but they pinned all of Jackson and April's current relationship problems on a series of decisions that basically all happened offscreen or during timehops. I can almost give them the first separation, because they had to keep the characters in a holding pattern while Meredith was off having her sabbatical, but after that they just kept compounding the problem. We never had a good read on why April chose to leave the second time, or why she assumed they could just pick up where they left off when she came back. It makes it really difficult to relate.

I feel the same way as far as not really understanding why April kept extending her stay and why she chose to leave again or expected him to want to stay with her after she goes away a second time. Too much happens offscreen to fully understand her actions. I would have liked to see some scenes of April in Jordan which show how her work there allowed her to heal from her loss in either the time-jump or Japril the Movie episode. I would have liked it if they showed more scenes of April struggling with depression in the episodes leading up to her going to Jordan. We don't really see her emotional experience as much as we see Jackson's suffering because of her actions. In the season 11 finale, she mentions the feeling that working as a surgeon in Jordan feels like a calling to her and in the Japril episode she talks about her feelings about the work there when she is trying to convince Jackson to come with her. To understand April's motivation and perspective, as an audience member, you have to imagine and fill in a lot of her experiences that take place offscreen.

[BabyBBQKendall]

I thought we were going to get flashbacks when they introduced the Riggs character, because otherwise his knowing April in Jordan seems kind of random and unnecessary, but IDK, it's probably a bit late for all that now. The Japril story is frustrating because it all comes back to this "calling" that took place offscreen and has now been all but forgotten. I'm not even sure, is April meant to be better now?

[Scatterbrained]

5 hours ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

I thought we were going to get flashbacks when they introduced the Riggs character, because otherwise his knowing April in Jordan seems kind of random and unnecessary, but IDK, it's probably a bit late for all that now. The Japril story is frustrating because it all comes back to this "calling" that took place offscreen and has now been all but forgotten. I'm not even sure, is April meant to be better now?

In his first episode, he came to the hospital with the boy from Jordan with hand issues.  It was explained that April invited him and the boy to the hospital so that she could manipulate Jackson to fix the boy's hands.  April and Riggs were in the same unit.  I'm not sure if his staying on after the boy was fixed was explained.  I guess he was just hired.  

In another episode, April marveled at Hunt and Riggs knowing each other and having such a strong history with each other because she said that the entire time she was there Riggs never mentioned knowing Owen at all.

[apn85]

On 8/13/2016 at 8:01 PM, mdw said:

I thought that the storyline with the old lady who had dementia mirrored Jackson's feelings and point of view toward April abandoning him to go to Jordan when he needed her and continuing to extend her stay.

See, I did not get that. It's always interesting to see how each of us view a scene. It was just the way Jackson looked when she said those things. The way he responded "Me too." when the old lady thought they were having a baby. It seemed more of a reflective/looking back maybe I should have type thing. I'm usually dead wrong, so pay no mind to my ramblings! LOL

[mdw]

I think that the role of the old lady can be interpreted in several different ways, which is something that I like about the way that Grey's Anatomy uses the patient stories, in general. I've watched this episode more than once, which is probably embarrassing. Initially, I thought that the connection was only in the scene when she says, "We're having a baby. I can't wait to have a baby," and he says, "Me, too," and seems to be connecting to his own emotions about becoming a father. Jackson didn't really seem to perceive a link between his feelings and hers otherwise. I think that he was just sympathetic towards her given her mental state. When I watched the episode again later, I paid closer attention to what she said in her first scene. Then, I thought that the writers were making a direct parallel between her perceived relationship with Jackson, believing he is her husband, and April and Jackson's actual relationship. I thought her words reflected April's situation and the woman's memory of what her husband did reflected Jackson's actions. But that interpretation doesn't totally make sense because  the woman is in so much pain from the memory of having been abandoned by her spouse and Jackson didn't abandon April. April left him and he suffered a lot because of that. The woman also says that her husband should have been there for her because that's what a husband does. Jackson says something similar to April in the scene where they have Chinese takeout food and get into a fight. He tells her he was covering his own pain after Samuel's death because in a marriage you take care of the other person and put them first. I think this parallel is there only for the audience to interpret. The character Jackson doesn't make this connection. I like that GA is written in a way that the scenes are open to different interpretations. Of course, I might be reading way too much into these scenes.

I did really like the scenes with Jackson, the old woman and Cross. The actress was really great.

[BabyBBQKendall]

I like that interpretation. I think it makes more sense. But I still think that the writers wanted us to see Jackson as the crappy abandoning husband in the scenario. They could have made it more vague, but "that's what a husband does" feels too pointed and specific to be about April. 

[Scatterbrained]

I've thought about that scene a lot and shared one of my theories previously in this thread.  Another thought that I have had is that maybe it occurred to Jackson in this moment that maybe April became so consumed with grief that she became demented in her own way.  The patient couldn't remember that she had a son because she was demented.  April couldn't forget that she had a son who died and couldn't get over it, so she lost her mind in a way, and ran away (because she's a runner) to a place where she was always forced to be in the moment, where thoughts of her loss wouldn't be the uppermost thing on her mind.

[mdw]

11 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

I've thought about that scene a lot and shared one of my theories previously in this thread.  Another thought that I have had is that maybe it occurred to Jackson in this moment that maybe April became so consumed with grief that she became demented in her own way.  The patient couldn't remember that she had a son because she was demented.  April couldn't forget that she had a son who died and couldn't get over it, so she lost her mind in a way, and ran away (because she's a runner) to a place where she was always forced to be in the moment, where thoughts of her loss wouldn't be the uppermost thing on her mind.

I like this interpretation, too. I think it works as well.

[mdw]

13 hours ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

I like that interpretation. I think it makes more sense. But I still think that the writers wanted us to see Jackson as the crappy abandoning husband in the scenario. They could have made it more vague, but "that's what a husband does" feels too pointed and specific to be about April. 

Yeah, sometimes the writers seem to be forcing a perspective. All the same, this patient storyline was open enough that it could be linked in different ways. Maybe it was written this way so that all of these interpretations fit.

I really loved this patient story because it was tragic - the idea that this woman was at times mentally stuck in what was probably one of her worst memories. The actress was so good because in the scene where she thinks she's having a baby, her expression and tone of voice are almost radiant with love. Also, Jackson is so sweet and gentle in his scenes with her, which we didn't see a lot during the season because until the end of episode 19, the focus of his SL this season was the disintegration of April and his relationship. He nicely balanced playing along with the woman's delusion so as not to upset her and maintaining emotional distance. Cross's comments gave the scenes a little levity.

[mdw]

On August 14, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Scatterbrained said:

In his first episode, he came to the hospital with the boy from Jordan with hand issues.  It was explained that April invited him and the boy to the hospital so that she could manipulate Jackson to fix the boy's hands.  April and Riggs were in the same unit.  I'm not sure if his staying on after the boy was fixed was explained.  I guess he was just hired.  

In another episode, April marveled at Hunt and Riggs knowing each other and having such a strong history with each other because she said that the entire time she was there Riggs never mentioned knowing Owen at all.

 

On August 14, 2016 at 1:41 AM, BabyBBQKendall said:

I thought we were going to get flashbacks when they introduced the Riggs character, because otherwise his knowing April in Jordan seems kind of random and unnecessary, but IDK, it's probably a bit late for all that now. The Japril story is frustrating because it all comes back to this "calling" that took place offscreen and has now been all but forgotten. I'm not even sure, is April meant to be better now?

Maybe they wrote Riggs as knowing April in Jordan because his backstory with Owen takes place in the Middle East. Since he has a bad history with Owen, maybe it would be improbable or too coincidental for him to end up with a job at the same hospital as Owen. IDK. I liked him in the episode also b/c he has a positive opinion of April . April, as a character, can be annoying and frustrating, but overall, I like her and her growth since season 9. I do feel that the writer's committed character homicide/suicide in having her abandon her grieving husband for 9 months or a year and then expect him to be there for her.

Anyways, maybe the writers had her go away a second time, so they could create a plausible context of her having a friendship with this person whom Owen hates and unwittingly bringing him back into Owen's life. Wasn't Owen with her for the rest of the time in Jordan. 

Rigg's scenes with her and with Jackson provides some backstory that can be inferred on her experience in Jordan. I'm assuming that the people they were giving medical attention to would have been Syrian or Libyan refugees, or refugees from ISIS. Does Grey's operate in the same geo-political world of reality? IDK. Even though April was supposed to have been in the army, I would imagine the set-up would have been like Doctors Without Borders or like in Mash.

I think that her feeling of a calling is that God's plan for her, despite her tragedy, was for her to use her talents and this period of her life to help those people who are in a far more tragic and desperate situation than she has been. Her bringing the little boy to the hospital and getting Jackson to give him hands may be an example of the kind of people she helped when she was in Jordan. 

I thought Riggs gives April a good reality check as her character can be stubbornly obtuse.

[Scatterbrained]

I feel like the Japril storyline is one that was altered with the death of McDreamy.  I think the writers initially wanted a storyline of marital conflict caused by two individuals'  very different approach to the grieving process.  I'm not sure whether the initial intention was for them to divorce.  Then when they had to rewrite and rework so much with Patrick Dempsey's exit, I think it was easier to send her away for a year to tell their story in a fast forward episode.  

Also the title of one episode was "She's Leaving Home" and it applied to both Meredith and April, so allowed for a parallel set of storylines.  It also allowed a storyline for everyone left behind as they spent holidays with each other feeling the emptiness and wondering whether their loved ones were okay, wondering if they would EVER see them again.  Bonding, commiserating, wondering.  

Now that there is no MerDer they (Japril) are now one of the most important long-standing couples the fans want to see.  Especially with Debbie Allen available full-time to help with their drama and story development.  So there's that as well.

Her second stint was (sort of) explained when she couldn't readapt.  She wanted Jackson's support and when he refused to give it, she sought out Arizona's support.   She cried all through Catherine and Richard's wedding because she knew she was probably ending her marriage, but knew she couldn't stay.  

The question is, what made her return?  The only thing we've seen on the show is the boy with the hand issues.  Maybe he was the reason for her return, because she felt strongly that Jackson could help him, and also that maybe the boy could help Jackson connect to her again.

I became Facebook friends with someone after the death of someone we both had a relationship with.  This person's young (twenty-something) child recently passed away from cancer and had been battling the disease for quite some time.  She found and shared this essay on grief:  http://www.thatericalper.com/2015/08/16/person-is-asking-for-advice-hn-how-to-deal-with-grief-this-reply-is-incredible/

Maybe for April, the waves of grief just suddenly felt more manageable and real life more manageable with the passage of time.  

Which brings me to Jackson, when he was originally brought onto the show, he seemed to have some sort of kinship with Meredith.  The overachieving, hypercritical mother thing and the lack of fatherly presence thing.  Over time, it seemed as if it wasn't touched on as much.  Then, when Catherine is preparing to marry Richard, he says that Meredith says the maid of honors job is to drive the getaway car, indicating that he and Meredith still have a friendly relationship, even if we don't see it very much.  

When Meredith was in therapy after the attack and came to the conclusion that she was sad that everybody (of importance in her life) had left her, I felt that that could also parallel Jackson's situation and feelings as well.  I rewatched the episode to see if he was featured in it in any significant storyline way.  He wasn't, but I still think the parallel story applies.  I think he does have some abandonment issues and I think that's what he's been so focused on this past season.  His anger that she LEFT him.  I think/hope that in the last episode he might be starting to realize that April didn't intend to hurt him any more than the demented patient intended to hurt her own child.  In each instance she (both she's) just wasn't of sound enough neurology/psychology to truly know what she was doing.

If this were the case then neither Jackson, nor April are jerks at fault.  They are just humans being human and sometimes self-centered and fallible.  These two need to move from "I" to "we" and a parenting partnership may help them do that.

BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!  I just wrote an essay.  Thanks to all who got through it!  

Edited August 17, 2016 by Scatterbrained

[Scatterbrained]

I forgot to mention this: at the end of Meredith's therapy session the therapist tells her that she can figure out what she wants to do and who she wants to be going forward, and she admits that she really doesn't know what she wants to do or be going forward, I felt that sort of paralleled with Jackson's storyline this season too.  He admits to being confused and thinking he wants one thing, but feeling like he wants something else entirely.  

[apn85]

6 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

I've thought about that scene a lot and shared one of my theories previously in this thread.  Another thought that I have had is that maybe it occurred to Jackson in this moment that maybe April became so consumed with grief that she became demented in her own way.  The patient couldn't remember that she had a son because she was demented.  April couldn't forget that she had a son who died and couldn't get over it, so she lost her mind in a way, and ran away (because she's a runner) to a place where she was always forced to be in the moment, where thoughts of her loss wouldn't be the uppermost thing on her mind.

This is exactly where my mind has gone now that we've had this discussion. You just worded it so much better than I could. 

Yes, April screwed up. She screwed up tremendously. However, I am not sure every action she took was necessarily her fault. I don't think she ever meant to hurt Jackson or not be there for him. (I think some of the dialogue in 12x11 was ridiculous, but I won't get into that....) Losing Samuel literally broke her and I don't think in the aftermath she was able to navigate through the waters herself, let alone maintain other relationships. I think she was in a deep depression and I think for a while she was consumed by it. I think that was the motivating factor behind Jordan. Part of me even thinks that was the motivating factor behind her second trip over there. I think mentally she wasn't strong enough to come back to everything that reminded her of the worst time in her life so she ran again. She asked Jackson to go with her, so I don't think she was running from him, but I do think she just wasn't emotionally strong enough to be back just yet.  

Jackson dealt with grief also. Jackson hurt in the aftermath of Samuel. However, even he said himself if it was that difficult for him then it had to be way harder for April. He acknowledged that as a Mother she was carrying something a wee bit heavier than he was. I don't make light of his grief, but that was a statement he made. I think he was probably in a similar situation that April was in. He was caught up in grief, caught up in such an incredible loss, and really unable to deal with any other relationship fully. I think that is why April's first trip to Jordan didn't trigger the abandonment thing as much as it did later. I think he pulled himself to safety first and I think when the dust settled and she wasn't there the abandonment issues came to the forefront. I think that is where the anger came from and his inability to get beyond it which ultimately led to the divorce. 

I could be way off, but for me the things said in the finale could be Jackson beginning to realize what he did. I don't say what he did to say he is to blame for anything. I say that meaning that perhaps he is beginning to realize that April may not have been herself. That something was honestly wrong with her that he didn't pick up on. She may have been so bogged down in grief that her actions were a result of that and not a reflection of what she thought of him/their marriage. Yes, she walked away, but was she really in control of that? He might have started realizing that, which I think would bother him way more than what he initially thought. The old lady's comments would fit a theory like that as well. 

I think it became clear to him in the finale the lengths April would go to for their daughter. She would have rather died than live through losing another baby. The stance most Mothers would take if given the choice, but one that he was begging her not to take if it came down to it. Also, she was clearly trusting him to raise their child should she not make it. Despite the stupid custody crap earlier in the season, April knew Jackson would be ok. I think those things would speak volumes and perhaps cause a revelation of some sort. The whole aftermath of Samuel was awful, but neither were to blame. 

I believe he still loves her, I don't know if he has admitted it to himself, but I believe that he does. I don't think she believes he does at all. I think she pretty much resigned herself to owning her mistakes and accepting how he felt about her. I think if he does have some type of revelation and wants to rewind that she won't be in the same place. I think he could possibly have to fight for her. Something he's never really had to do. 

Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds and am definitely preparing myself for the possibility that something completely unforeseen could be in the plans!  

[Scatterbrained]

15 hours ago, apn85 said:

 I believe he still loves her, I don't know if he has admitted it to himself, but I believe that he does. I don't think she believes he does at all. I think she pretty much resigned herself to owning her mistakes and accepting how he felt about her. I think if he does have some type of revelation and wants to rewind that she won't be in the same place. I think he could possibly have to fight for her. Something he's never really had to do. 

Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds and am definitely preparing myself for the possibility that something completely unforeseen could be in the plans!  

I agree.  It think it should be interesting!  I thought Allesia Cara's  River of Tears song was a weird choice for the scenes it was featured in.  The lyrics "Love sinks and hope floats in a river of tears" might make sense but those lyrics were not the ones featured.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

ETA: I wondered if it might foreshadow something.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Scatterbrained

[apn85]

2 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

I agree.  It think it should be interesting!  I thought Allesia Cara's  River of Tears song was a weird choice for the scenes it was featured in.  The lyrics "Love sinks and hope floats in a river of tears" might make sense but those lyrics were not the ones featured.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

ETA: I wondered if it might foreshadow something.

Initially I wondered the same thing. For me, the lyrics that did fit were: "I don't know why I keep letting you lie to me. Hard as I try it seems I can't break away." Those were included in the scene. Which for me is very fitting for Jackson and April. More for Jackson, actually. I feel like he's tried so hard to convince himself he doesn't love her and that the divorce was the right thing to do. He'd even gotten so far as working out a custody arrangement with her, coming to an agreement on him being present for the baby's birth and then she goes and basically almost dies on him. Feelings he thought were dead and buried most likely came rushing back in and there he sits at square one yet again. 

That was my interpretation. The song as a whole, though, no....not very fitting for the situation that was playing out on the screen. Maybe they just thought it was pretty so they stuck it in there! :P 

[mdw]

On August 16, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Scatterbrained said:

I forgot to mention this: at the end of Meredith's therapy session the therapist tells her that she can figure out what she wants to do and who she wants to be going forward, and she admits that she really doesn't know what she wants to do or be going forward, I felt that sort of paralleled with Jackson's storyline this season too.  He admits to being confused and thinking he wants one thing, but feeling like he wants something else entirely.  

He seems to have had two deep, conflicting feelings. He is still in love with April and is happy when he is able to forget the other stuff, and he hates April because he feels she betrayed him. His anger at April is tied up with the pain of losing their first child.

[mdw]

On August 16, 2016 at 8:18 PM, apn85 said:

This is exactly where my mind has gone now that we've had this discussion. You just worded it so much better than I could. 

Yes, April screwed up. She screwed up tremendously. However, I am not sure every action she took was necessarily her fault. I don't think she ever meant to hurt Jackson or not be there for him. (I think some of the dialogue in 12x11 was ridiculous, but I won't get into that....) Losing Samuel literally broke her and I don't think in the aftermath she was able to navigate through the waters herself, let alone maintain other relationships. I think she was in a deep depression and I think for a while she was consumed by it. I think that was the motivating factor behind Jordan. Part of me even thinks that was the motivating factor behind her second trip over there. I think mentally she wasn't strong enough to come back to everything that reminded her of the worst time in her life so she ran again. She asked Jackson to go with her, so I don't think she was running from him, but I do think she just wasn't emotionally strong enough to be back just yet.  

Jackson dealt with grief also. Jackson hurt in the aftermath of Samuel. However, even he said himself if it was that difficult for him then it had to be way harder for April. He acknowledged that as a Mother she was carrying something a wee bit heavier than he was. I don't make light of his grief, but that was a statement he made. I think he was probably in a similar situation that April was in. He was caught up in grief, caught up in such an incredible loss, and really unable to deal with any other relationship fully. I think that is why April's first trip to Jordan didn't trigger the abandonment thing as much as it did later. I think he pulled himself to safety first and I think when the dust settled and she wasn't there the abandonment issues came to the forefront. I think that is where the anger came from and his inability to get beyond it which ultimately led to the divorce. 

I could be way off, but for me the things said in the finale could be Jackson beginning to realize what he did. I don't say what he did to say he is to blame for anything. I say that meaning that perhaps he is beginning to realize that April may not have been herself. That something was honestly wrong with her that he didn't pick up on. She may have been so bogged down in grief that her actions were a result of that and not a reflection of what she thought of him/their marriage. Yes, she walked away, but was she really in control of that? He might have started realizing that, which I think would bother him way more than what he initially thought. The old lady's comments would fit a theory like that as well. 

I think it became clear to him in the finale the lengths April would go to for their daughter. She would have rather died than live through losing another baby. The stance most Mothers would take if given the choice, but one that he was begging her not to take if it came down to it. Also, she was clearly trusting him to raise their child should she not make it. Despite the stupid custody crap earlier in the season, April knew Jackson would be ok. I think those things would speak volumes and perhaps cause a revelation of some sort. The whole aftermath of Samuel was awful, but neither were to blame. 

I believe he still loves her, I don't know if he has admitted it to himself, but I believe that he does. I don't think she believes he does at all. I think she pretty much resigned herself to owning her mistakes and accepting how he felt about her. I think if he does have some type of revelation and wants to rewind that she won't be in the same place. I think he could possibly have to fight for her. Something he's never really had to do. 

Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds and am definitely preparing myself for the possibility that something completely unforeseen could be in the plans!  

I agree with what you said and like how you put this. It seems that there are a couple of obstacles that they would have to overcome for them to get back together. Jackson's love for April and happiness to have a daughter needs to outweigh his anger towards April. I like what you said about him possibly beginning to understand/forgive her leaving, and maybe to realize that he still loves her. He may struggle with trusting her again. On April's part, she would have to believe that he wants to be with her for her and not just because they have a child.

They would still have relationship issues to work through. She would need to be more in tune with his needs and feelings. He would have to open up and be more direct with communicating them to her. When I watched the episodes from season 11 from the time he learns about their baby's condition until the episodes that deal with Derek's death, Jackson is totally focused on taking care of April and her needs. He doesn't really allow himself to grieve or fall apart. Before April leaves, there are two scenes that show his feelings coming up and him pushing them back so he can function. One is in the nursery when April is desolate sitting in the rocking chair, clutching the teddy bear. The other is a scene where he goes in a supply closet and Webber comes in and asks if everything is alright.

I look forward to seeing their scenes and conversations in the season opener. If the episode picks up right where it ended, April will need someone to help her when she goes home while she recovers from her c-section. I also want to see them pick the baby name. 

I have been very attached to this couple ever since I saw the episode where Jackson interrupts her wedding and declares his feelings for her. His speech was so heartfelt. I thought the scene where they decide to get married was very cute too.

[mdw]

On August 17, 2016 at 2:36 PM, apn85 said:

Initially I wondered the same thing. For me, the lyrics that did fit were: "I don't know why I keep letting you lie to me. Hard as I try it seems I can't break away." Those were included in the scene. Which for me is very fitting for Jackson and April. More for Jackson, actually. I feel like he's tried so hard to convince himself he doesn't love her and that the divorce was the right thing to do. He'd even gotten so far as working out a custody arrangement with her, coming to an agreement on him being present for the baby's birth and then she goes and basically almost dies on him. Feelings he thought were dead and buried most likely came rushing back in and there he sits at square one yet again. 

That was my interpretation. The song as a whole, though, no....not very fitting for the situation that was playing out on the screen. Maybe they just thought it was pretty so they stuck it in there! :P 

When I first saw the scene, the lyrics that I keyed into were, "I thought that you were the hero come and save the day.." They reveal Ben holding the baby under that blanket on that note. I thought the lyrics connected to his  actions in saving April and her baby. The feeling of the music also matched the tone of the scene. When I saw the scene again and listened more closely to the words, it didn't seem to match the action in the scene exactly.

[apn85]

6 hours ago, mdw said:

I agree with what you said and like how you put this. It seems that there are a couple of obstacles that they would have to overcome for them to get back together. Jackson's love for April and happiness to have a daughter needs to outweigh his anger towards April. I like what you said about him possibly beginning to understand/forgive her leaving, and maybe to realize that he still loves her. He may struggle with trusting her again. On April's part, she would have to believe that he wants to be with her for her and not just because they have a child.

They would still have relationship issues to work through. She would need to be more in tune with his needs and feelings. He would have to open up and be more direct with communicating them to her. When I watched the episodes from season 11 from the time he learns about their baby's condition until the episodes that deal with Derek's death, Jackson is totally focused on taking care of April and her needs. He doesn't really allow himself to grieve or fall apart. Before April leaves, there are two scenes that show his feelings coming up and him pushing them back so he can function. One is in the nursery when April is desolate sitting in the rocking chair, clutching the teddy bear. The other is a scene where he goes in a supply closet and Webber comes in and asks if everything is alright.

I look forward to seeing their scenes and conversations in the season opener. If the episode picks up right where it ended, April will need someone to help her when she goes home while she recovers from her c-section. I also want to see them pick the baby name. 

I have been very attached to this couple ever since I saw the episode where Jackson interrupts her wedding and declares his feelings for her. His speech was so heartfelt. I thought the scene where they decide to get married was very cute too.

You are so right! They have quite a few obstacles to get through before they need to have any type of reconciliation. My main fear is that if a reconciliation is in Shonda's plans, that she will rush it. Realistically, they'd just go right back to the same problems. There is a quote from The Notebook that always reminds me of Jackson/April. 

"They didn't agree on much. In fact, they didn't agree on anything. They fought all the time and challenged each other everyday. But despite their differences they had one important thing in common. They were crazy about each other." 

They really are horrible for one another, but for some reason they are kind of it for one another. I can't see either of them moving beyond each other. Of course, Shonda may plan for them to, but I just don't think it'd have the same charm. No one Jackson was with prior to April clicked like they did. Matthew and April didn't click for me like they did. Of course that is my personal opinion, but I think it is because any logical person would think "These two are the WORST idea ever!" yet there is just something about them. 

I think a huge obstacle you mentioned is April thinking Jackson only wanted to be with her because of the baby. He's proven that to her already. When he discovered she was pregnant he asked her why she didn't tell him before they signed the papers. After that he made it clear had he known it would have factored into his decision about the divorce. So she is well aware of the fact that Jackson would have stayed with her had he known she was pregnant. I don't see her feeling any different now that the baby is here. Regardless of how he truly feels, she is not going to be easily convinced that it's not because he doesn't want his daughter growing up with divorced parents. She knew that baby was going to have him the instant it arrived, so it is going to be difficult to make her feel otherwise. 

I think for Jackson maybe almost losing her, or the reality that she could have very well died had anything gone wrong with the c-section, could cause him to not only admit some things to himself but also ask himself is my anger/inability to forgive really worth the rest of my life? Meaning, is continuing to hold onto this while life is happening worth it? Is it worth missing certain holidays with his daughter, is it worth being unable to tell his daughter goodnight every night, is it worth not allowing himself to be happy with the person he honestly does love but is angry with. So while I don't think Jackson would only want to be with April because of the baby, I do think the baby might clarify some things for him that he'd been struggling with. 

I agree 100% when you said April needs to be more in tune with Jackson's feelings. Going back and watching some old episodes, I saw just how many times he backed off when whatever it was started to upset her. For example, the fight they had over religion right before she discovered she was pregnant with Samuel. In the particular scene I am talking about she was saying that she knew he didn't have any faith so he judged her faith. He tolerated it and loved her in spite of it. She says, "Just admit it, you think what I believe is ridiculous!" and he yells back "Because it is!!" Right after that she recoils almost as if he had smacked her or something and Jackson immediately gets a look on his face that says "I know I went to far. I am sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you." but before he can act on what is clearly written on his face, she busts out with the part about she feels sorry for him. He was so clearly going to take a step back, he knew he had gone too far and hurt her, but before he could she threw the next punch. Overall, I feel like Jackson did that numerous times during the course of their relationship. He gave into April and let her have her way. So really they never had any experience in working through problems before something as enormous as losing a child happened to them. 

Jackson for sure needs to learn how to communicate. For sure. He absolutely spent the majority of their marriage, and certainly during and after Samuel, trying to take care of her or do what he thought made her happy. The saddest scenes of the whole Samuel situation for me give perfect examples of what you were saying. The scene with Jackson, Catherine, and April. He had just received the same news. He was also losing his son. Yet his concern was her. He and his Mom were there for April. That was the focus. Then when he went in the Chapel and prayed: he did that because he just wanted to help her, so no matter what it meant for him, he did it because it might help her. The last scene was the one you mentioned: the one in the nursery between the two of them. He should have just let himself break down and let her see that he was just as destroyed as she was. But in true Jackson form, he pulls it together and leaves because he feels like that is what she needs in the moment. Him trying to be tough through all of that and not letting her see the depth of his grief is a big reason why I think April misunderstood his pain. She was going by what his actions were showing and that created an even bigger mess. 

I am also anxious to see what Season 13 has in store for them. From the pictures Sarah shared of herself, Jesse, and Debbie Allen it definitely looks like it picks right back up where it left off. She was in a hospital gown in those. Also, there was a picture I saw of Kelly McCreary and she still had her bridesmaids dress on. April will absolutely need some help when going home from the hospital and part of me feels like it will be Jackson just because that sets the scene for plenty of other possibilities. I guess we shall see!

Sorry for getting so long winded. I guess it's a sign of a good show when you can ramble this much about it LOL

[mdw]

9 hours ago, apn85 said:

You are so right! They have quite a few obstacles to get through before they need to have any type of reconciliation. My main fear is that if a reconciliation is in Shonda's plans, that she will rush it. Realistically, they'd just go right back to the same problems. There is a quote from The Notebook that always reminds me of Jackson/April. 

"They didn't agree on much. In fact, they didn't agree on anything. They fought all the time and challenged each other everyday. But despite their differences they had one important thing in common. They were crazy about each other." 

They really are horrible for one another, but for some reason they are kind of it for one another. I can't see either of them moving beyond each other. Of course, Shonda may plan for them to, but I just don't think it'd have the same charm. No one Jackson was with prior to April clicked like they did. Matthew and April didn't click for me like they did. Of course that is my personal opinion, but I think it is because any logical person would think "These two are the WORST idea ever!" yet there is just something about them. 

I think a huge obstacle you mentioned is April thinking Jackson only wanted to be with her because of the baby. He's proven that to her already. When he discovered she was pregnant he asked her why she didn't tell him before they signed the papers. After that he made it clear had he known it would have factored into his decision about the divorce. So she is well aware of the fact that Jackson would have stayed with her had he known she was pregnant. I don't see her feeling any different now that the baby is here. Regardless of how he truly feels, she is not going to be easily convinced that it's not because he doesn't want his daughter growing up with divorced parents. She knew that baby was going to have him the instant it arrived, so it is going to be difficult to make her feel otherwise. 

I think for Jackson maybe almost losing her, or the reality that she could have very well died had anything gone wrong with the c-section, could cause him to not only admit some things to himself but also ask himself is my anger/inability to forgive really worth the rest of my life? Meaning, is continuing to hold onto this while life is happening worth it? Is it worth missing certain holidays with his daughter, is it worth being unable to tell his daughter goodnight every night, is it worth not allowing himself to be happy with the person he honestly does love but is angry with. So while I don't think Jackson would only want to be with April because of the baby, I do think the baby might clarify some things for him that he'd been struggling with. 

I agree 100% when you said April needs to be more in tune with Jackson's feelings. Going back and watching some old episodes, I saw just how many times he backed off when whatever it was started to upset her. For example, the fight they had over religion right before she discovered she was pregnant with Samuel. In the particular scene I am talking about she was saying that she knew he didn't have any faith so he judged her faith. He tolerated it and loved her in spite of it. She says, "Just admit it, you think what I believe is ridiculous!" and he yells back "Because it is!!" Right after that she recoils almost as if he had smacked her or something and Jackson immediately gets a look on his face that says "I know I went to far. I am sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you." but before he can act on what is clearly written on his face, she busts out with the part about she feels sorry for him. He was so clearly going to take a step back, he knew he had gone too far and hurt her, but before he could she threw the next punch. Overall, I feel like Jackson did that numerous times during the course of their relationship. He gave into April and let her have her way. So really they never had any experience in working through problems before something as enormous as losing a child happened to them. 

Jackson for sure needs to learn how to communicate. For sure. He absolutely spent the majority of their marriage, and certainly during and after Samuel, trying to take care of her or do what he thought made her happy. The saddest scenes of the whole Samuel situation for me give perfect examples of what you were saying. The scene with Jackson, Catherine, and April. He had just received the same news. He was also losing his son. Yet his concern was her. He and his Mom were there for April. That was the focus. Then when he went in the Chapel and prayed: he did that because he just wanted to help her, so no matter what it meant for him, he did it because it might help her. The last scene was the one you mentioned: the one in the nursery between the two of them. He should have just let himself break down and let her see that he was just as destroyed as she was. But in true Jackson form, he pulls it together and leaves because he feels like that is what she needs in the moment. Him trying to be tough through all of that and not letting her see the depth of his grief is a big reason why I think April misunderstood his pain. She was going by what his actions were showing and that created an even bigger mess. 

I am also anxious to see what Season 13 has in store for them. From the pictures Sarah shared of herself, Jesse, and Debbie Allen it definitely looks like it picks right back up where it left off. She was in a hospital gown in those. Also, there was a picture I saw of Kelly McCreary and she still had her bridesmaids dress on. April will absolutely need some help when going home from the hospital and part of me feels like it will be Jackson just because that sets the scene for plenty of other possibilities. I guess we shall see!

Sorry for getting so long winded. I guess it's a sign of a good show when you can ramble this much about it LOL

 A couple of thoughts....

What happened to the couple in The Notebook? Did they end up together?

Most of my favorite movie/tv/literature love stories going all the way back to Beauty and the Beast from childhood are those where opposites attract and each individual grows through the love story. Usually one of the characters is more complete, mature and the other is flawed or has more emotional stuff to overcome. In most love stories I've seen/read, the female is more emotionally developed and she saves/fixes the guy, making his life more complete. In Jackson and April's story, the roles are kind of reversed. Her character has matured much more throughout the relationship. She sort of has to, given where she starts in terms of her social/emotional growth. In seasons 6-8, she is anywhere from 5 to 10 years less mature than the rest of their group. She's kind of like the annoying, little sister or cousin of the group. Jackson starts the relationship n season 9 and he's socially confident, smoother around the edges, and doesn't have any of the insecurities/neuroses that she has. I think he challenges her and kind of saves/fixes her. Up to the point where the baby story comes in season 11,April makes a lot of growth but she still has more to do.

[apn85]

2 hours ago, mdw said:

 A couple of thoughts....

What happened to the couple in The Notebook? Did they end up together?

Most of my favorite movie/tv/literature love stories going all the way back to Beauty and the Beast from childhood are those where opposites attract and each individual grows through the love story. Usually one of the characters is more complete, mature and the other is flawed or has more emotional stuff to overcome. In most love stories I've seen/read, the female is more emotionally developed and she saves/fixes the guy, making his life more complete. In Jackson and April's story, the roles are kind of reversed. Her character has matured much more throughout the relationship. She sort of has to, given where she starts in terms of her social/emotional growth. In seasons 6-8, she is anywhere from 5 to 10 years less mature than the rest of their group. She's kind of like the annoying, little sister or cousin of the group. Jackson starts the relationship n season 9 and he's socially confident, smoother around the edges, and doesn't have any of the insecurities/neuroses that she has. I think he challenges her and kind of saves/fixes her. Up to the point where the baby story comes in season 11,April makes a lot of growth but she still has more to do.

The Notebook couple did end up together. I won't spoil how it ended should you ever want to check it out - one of my favorites. :)

I will say that the characters in that book were opposites in just about every way possible. It also wasn't a love story that was without heartbreak, but despite all of that such a good story!

I agree with you about their growth since they came on the show. April has absolutely changed so much that when I see episodes from when she was first on the show it is hard to believe it is the same person. April grew on me, she wasn't always my favorite. I actually didn't like her at all at first. Then she slowly grew on me. Jackson wasn't really on my radar until he and April became friends. By then she had started growing on me and the fact that he was literally the only person that was nice to her made me like him. 

A couple of my friends that have watched Grey's as long as I have and I have a thing where if anything happens we are just like, "April." No matter what it is, it is her fault. If you go back and watch it is unbelievable how much crap that poor girl gets blamed for or scolded about. So now it's just a running joke. "Oh there was an earthquake? April." "Pile up on the freeway? April." I'm waiting on someone to bitch April out about ruining the table. ;) 

Edited August 19, 2016 by apn85

[mdw]

On August 18, 2016 at 11:07 PM, apn85 said:

 

I agree 100% when you said April needs to be more in tune with Jackson's feelings. Going back and watching some old episodes, I saw just how many times he backed off when whatever it was started to upset her. For example, the fight they had over religion right before she discovered she was pregnant with Samuel. In the particular scene I am talking about she was saying that she knew he didn't have any faith so he judged her faith. He tolerated it and loved her in spite of it. She says, "Just admit it, you think what I believe is ridiculous!" and he yells back "Because it is!!" Right after that she recoils almost as if he had smacked her or something and Jackson immediately gets a look on his face that says "I know I went to far. I am sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you." but before he can act on what is clearly written on his face, she busts out with the part about she feels sorry for him. He was so clearly going to take a step back, he knew he had gone too far and hurt her, but before he could she threw the next punch. Overall, I feel like Jackson did that numerous times during the course of their relationship. He gave into April and let her have her way. So really they never had any experience in working through problems before something as enormous as losing a child happened to them. 

 

I thought the exact same thing about that fight. I felt so bad for April and you can tell Jackson sees how he has hurt her deeply right when she throws back that she feels sorry for him. I'm not sure if April says this to hurt him or if the fight just brings out how she feels about his lack of belief. When I rewatched their scenes from this episode and the one in the following episode when she tells him she's pregnant, I thought that she probably suspected she was pregnant at the time because April starts this fight by criticizing his opinions about their hypothetical deaf child. 

I don't think Jackson realized what April's religious beliefs mean to her when they eloped. I think they were part of the "even the things I don't like [about you], I love."

This conflict between Jackson and April in their worldviews seems to come to a resolution in season 11 in a scene between them in one of the episodes right before we learn their baby has a genetic disease. They are sitting on a bench talking about a patient who died and why she died. I think that the patient may have been pregnant, somehow she connects to their situation as expectant parents. In the scene they both express an attitude of "I don't know how you do it" as far as their differing approaches to making sense of why tragedies occur, but they do it in a loving way that is accepting of each other's differences.

Jackson does appear to give in to April during the course of the relationship, but I don't think he minded until she leaves him for so long and is intransigent in their interactions in season 12.

[mdw]

3 minutes ago, doram said:

I'm quite certain that she doesn't say it to hurt him. Her follow-up words - that he's missing out on the tremendous love and support that believing in God - or anything benevolent and supernatural - seem to explain that. She doesn't say that she's sorry that he's going to Hell. She says that she's sorry because her faith has been a tremendous source of comfort and support for her in her life - and it's heartbreaking for her to see Jackson - the love of her life - unable to access that same source of comfort and support that she has. She finds his spiritual cynicism upsetting - and she should be. If she really loves her husband and she is a true Christian - there will always be a conflict within her over the fact that he's an atheist. 

I think that April does come to peace with Jackson's lack of belief in God. In the episode when their baby dies, April comforts the woman who lost her fiancé. April asks the woman if she believes in God. The woman answers that she does but her fiancé didn't. April  says that's ok, that she can believe enough for both of them.

I agree with what you say about the argument between the two of them. I don't think April means to hurt him, but I do think that she does but not to the degree that she has been hurt by him.

[BabyBBQKendall]

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 5:48 AM, doram said:

I'm quite certain that she doesn't say it to hurt him. Her follow-up words - that he's missing out on the tremendous love and support that believing in God - or anything benevolent and supernatural - seem to explain that. She doesn't say that she's sorry that he's going to Hell. She says that she's sorry because her faith has been a tremendous source of comfort and support for her in her life - and it's heartbreaking for her to see Jackson - the love of her life - unable to access that same source of comfort and support that she has. She finds his spiritual cynicism upsetting - and she should be. If she really loves her husband and she is a true Christian - there will always be a conflict within her over the fact that he's an atheist. 

I don't think April realises how unbearably patronizing she comes across to someone who doesn't believe in her sky fairies. Her absolute tonedeafness is a fairly consistent trait, at least.

Edited September 1, 2016 by BabyBBQKendall

[OtterMommy]

10 hours ago, doram said:

Is the irony deliberate?

Meanwhile, I've never seen April Push her faith on anyone on the show so I'm not sure where the instances of tone deafness come from: unless the mere fact that she's a Christian presupposes this. Which, by the way, is a form of bigotry.

I agree...I've never seen April even come close to attempted evangelism for anyone.  She did say she wanted to raise her baby in the faith, which is her right as mother--and Jackson didn't have a problem with that.  Honestly, I find April, in terms of her religion, one of the most sympathetic and realistic Christian characters on TV (at least the TV I watch).  

[BabyBBQKendall]

I don't think she evangelises, in the sense of trying to convert others. But she weaponizes her faith in a way that we don't see from the other Christian characters on the show.

[OtterMommy]

37 minutes ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

I don't think she evangelises, in the sense of trying to convert others. But she weaponizes her faith in a way that we don't see from the other Christian characters on the show.

I never felt that way. Can you give an example?

[mdw]

13 hours ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

I don't think she evangelises, in the sense of trying to convert others. But she weaponizes her faith in a way that we don't see from the other Christian characters on the show.

I respectfully disagree with you. Are there any other Christians on the show or any other religious people who regularly practice their religion? 

I think that the perspective of the show and most, if not all, of its characters is agnostic and humanistic.

Personally, I find April an interesting character to watch, because she has a different worldview than the other characters. The show can present conflict between between her and others from an inherent character difference. 

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, mdw said:

I respectfully disagree with you. Are there any other Christians on the show or any other religious people who regularly practice their religion? 

I think that the perspective of the show and most, if not all, of its characters is agnostic and humanistic.

Personally, I find April an interesting character to watch, because she has a different worldview than the other characters. The show can present conflict between between her and others from an inherent character difference. 

I think the only other time Christianity really played into anything here would be Callie's Catholic parents--and even that was more about the institution of the Catholic Church than faith.

Well, and Izzie's exclamation that she is helping Alex because "It is what Jesus would FREAKIN' DO!"

I agree with you about April.  I think they have done a skillful job of weaving her faith into her character, giving her a different set of glasses through which she can see the world.  And, yes, it does put her in conflict with other characters at time, but it is never a case of "her faith against the world," but rather two different viewpoints that don't quite match up.

[apn85]

19 hours ago, mdw said:

I respectfully disagree with you. Are there any other Christians on the show or any other religious people who regularly practice their religion? 

I think that the perspective of the show and most, if not all, of its characters is agnostic and humanistic.

Personally, I find April an interesting character to watch, because she has a different worldview than the other characters. The show can present conflict between between her and others from an inherent character difference. 

I totally agree with this, mdw!

For me, April is made to feel like an outsider because of her faith WAY more than she makes anyone else feel that way because of their lack thereof. Most every character has picked on her at some point during her run on the show about her faith, God, or her beliefs. She's been the butt of many jokes. It wouldn't be hard to find examples.

Also, let us not forget Catherine Avery basically accusing her of believing that she (Catherine) and Jackson were going to Hell because they didn't believe or accusing her of influencing any children she and Jackson might have with her beliefs so that they no longer supported the things that the Avery Foundation currently supported. April asked for none of that. She was brought in, sat down, and berated by her Mother-in-law. Granted, Jackson did take up for her, but still.....April never once criticized their beliefs.  I don't think the root of Catherine's anger had anything to do with her son marrying a Christian, I think it was that he got married and didn't inform her. However, the angle she chose to take was attacking April for her religious beliefs. 

She married Jackson knowing that he didn't have any religious beliefs. As a Christian, that would be a way bigger gamble. She has to somehow come to terms with (based on Christian beliefs) the fact that Jackson won't be with her far as eternity goes. That would be so incredibly hard to live with if you believed as April does. For Jackson, you die and it's over. The concept of nothing is way easier to stomach than eternity without the person you love the most. Still, she never tried to change him. And I do NOT count the plane scene in this episode because that was as out of character for April and poorly written as Jackson grabbing her arm and screaming at her that she could raise their child by herself a few episodes down the line. April has never once tried to change Jackson and if you know anything about Jackson Avery you know he could never walk away from his child. And if you saw how he was with their daughter, completely in love, in the finale then you can understand how I found that outburst from him to be completely out of character and ridiculous. 

Finally, her pregnancy and the loss of Samuel. It was addressed on the show in the form of her Mother coming to town, but based on the beliefs April has had her entire life and based on how she was raised - medical termination went against everything that she knew. Based on Christian beliefs, or the ones April seemed to be raised with based on her Mom's behavior in the episode, one would carry that child without intervention and whatever happened would be viewed as God's will. April went against everything she had been brought up to believe and she gave Samuel up because it was the best thing for him. Once the initial shock was over, she knew what she had to do and she gave him up to keep him from suffering. I don't see how that could be viewed as anything but completely selfless. I'm not taking anything away from Jackson, but he didn't have that added pressure of lifelong beliefs to factor into his decision. She did it though. She found the strength to do what needed to be done for their baby regardless of religion, her beliefs, etc.

I don't consider their decision to have Samuel baptized April throwing her beliefs on Jackson in any way, shape, or form. That was literally all Jackson could do for her. If she had asked him to go outside, start running, and call her when he reached the East coast he would have done it. He would have willingly done anything. One of the most heartbreaking aspects of that episode was how helpless he felt. I'm not sure what scene made me cry harder that episode - Catherine and Jackson doing their best to comfort April after they received Samuel's diagnosis or Jackson in the chapel praying to a God he doesn't even believe in because he wanted to help her so badly but had no idea what to do. 

So while yes, April has her flaws, pushing her faith or sky fairies or whatever you want to call it on people has never been one that has stood out for me. Of course I can only speak for myself. To each their own! 

Edited September 3, 2016 by apn85

[BabyBBQKendall]

edited

Edited September 3, 2016 by BabyBBQKendall
edited

[apn85]

41 minutes ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

We all have different episodes with which we choose to interpret behavior that is in out of character. And so, I will respectfully agree to disagree, and bow out of this conversation.

Absolutely! Like I said, to each their own. :) 

[mdw]

16 hours ago, apn85 said:

 

 For me, April is made to feel like an outsider because of her faith WAY more than she makes anyone else feel that way because of their lack thereof. Most every character has picked on her at some point during her run on the show about her faith, God, or her beliefs. She's been the butt of many jokes. It wouldn't be hard to find examples.

 

 

I read an interview of Sarah Drew in which she said that originally April wasn't written as a Christian, but GA added this sometime in season 8. The actress herself is a Christian and her father is a Presbyterian minister. The producers wanted to write April's Christianity as authentic and for Drew to let them know if anything rang false in the writing. 

Originally, April's Christianity seemed to play like a semi-comical wrench in Jackson and April's romantic relationship. It's an obstacle that keeps them apart. Their romantic storyline from when they hook up at the end of season 8 to when they run away at her wedding and elope in season 10 plays like a romantic comedy. Initially, it seems that April's Christianity is about her own guilt over having and enjoying sex outside of marriage. Her expressions of her beliefs are connected to the character's generally being neurotic and her less likable qualities. Drew in an interview from several years ago described April as someone without an edit switch.

Once Jackson and April married, their story evolved to a romantic drama that, hopefully, we are still in the middle of. (I am rooting for them to get back together. I don't want another Callie/Arizona story of divorced people who were once in love and now have moved to the next chapter in life.) As April and Jackson's story became more serious, the depiction of April's religion became more complex.

I have been thinking about what April believes. I gather that she is a Protestant who believes that people can have a personal relationship with Jesus, if they are believers who seek it. She believes that God is the loving creator of the Universe. From what she has said in different episodes, she believes that God has a plan for every one, herself included, that we are not meant to know some of the big questions, such as why bad things happen to good people-this issue for her is addressed in the episode where Samuel dies. I feel that in the storyline with Samuel's illness and death, the series explored April's belief in/relationship with God in a respectful way. I think that April's religious beliefs matured through this experience. She lives through a tragedy and comes to a place where she believes God is still there for her.

She seems to believe that God calls on followers to do certain things, despite the sacrifices. I read a column by David Brooks where he talked about the notion of a calling as an internal drive that cannot be ignored. That the person experiencing this calling feels that they cannot not do the thing they believe they are called on to do. This explanation of a calling fits into April going to Jordan a second time, if she feels she has unfinished business there, even though she knows that this probably will end her marriage. (Also, I think that the writers wanted to create a situation where Jackson would justifiably want to divorce April and where they could introduce the character Riggs into the story.)

April herself tries to live to a Christian moral code but she is not judgmental towards other people who don't have the same beliefs. She doesn't seem to be a fundamentalist. She marries someone who is not religious. When Catherine Avery is questioning her about if she will teach her children that her pro-choice father & grandmother are going to Hell, April says that she doesn't think anyone is going to Hell. Her best friend is a lesbian. She sticks up for Arizona when Callie wants to throw Arizona out of their apartment after Arizona cheats in season 10.

[mdw]

This is regarding the scene with April and Jackson on the plane.

I didn't like this scene or April in this scene at all. I also felt like it was out of her character and showed a different dynamic between the characters than was portrayed between them once they got married. Sometimes, I feel I have to really stretch my imagination as an audience member of this show to make sense of or accept some of the writing. 

I am guessing that this trip would have occurred shortly after Catherine Avery's explosion at the hospital. Maybe April thought that asking him to pray with her family was a way to appease them in a similar way to her agreeing to sign Catherine's prenup before reading it as a way to get Catherine to accept her. I can sort of see the April of S10 who didn't want to send a wedding invitation to Jackson and wanted him to be Stephanie's plus one to spare Matthew's feelings asking Jackson to fake it and lead a family prayer so her family would accept him. At this time in the series, although more so in s9, April would vacillate between doing something that she really wanted and then feeling extreme remorse for what she did. She does this in one of my favorite April/Jackson scenes from her wedding: the two of them run out of the barn together elated, and then on a dime, April switches to feeling horrified about what she has just done, repeatedly saying "Oh my God." (Luckily, Jackson is a good kisser and she realizes he is her true love and they ride off together in true romantic comedy form.) 

Back to the plane scene. I'm imagining that April and Jackson didn't tell their parents right away that they eloped. I'm also imagining that April's parents are furious with her. Most likely, they paid for the wedding and may have been involved in the planning. They probably loved Matthew - he was very sweet and had the same religious beliefs that they do. It seems also that April has never felt accepted or particularly valued by her family, or at least not by her sisters. So maybe this is why she continues to wheedle him until he puts his foot down. I don't know.

I can more easily see the April of early s9 who talks about revirginizing and compares sex with Jackson to a car crash or a delicious dessert that gives you pimples and makes you gassy acting like this than the April of s10. After she & Jackson get married, she becomes calmer and doesn't really have the same flights of absurdity. She and Jackson both stand up for each other in a way they hadn't before.

This scene is a stretch for me. Maybe it's in there to show the cracks in their marriage having to do with their different world views. I really think, though, their breakup was caused by the death of their baby and the impact of the way that she felt she needed to grieve. Maybe the scene is there to show the contrast between their disagreement over religion in this scene and the one in the dress shop. In the plane scene, April is asking Jackson to be false to who he is out of fear of her family's acceptance, and he angrily refuses. Whereas, in the dress shop, she is asking him to find a minister to marry them because she loves Jackson and wants her wedding to include the part of her life that has deep meaning to her.

Edited September 4, 2016 by mdw

[mdw]

I hope it's not bad form or against the forum rules to post so much. And, I apologize if it is. I caught up on all these past seasons this summer and have been somewhat obsessed.

While generally I thought April & Jackson's storyline in S12 was very well done, (even though I found it sad), the one part of the storyline that I found poorly conceived and depicted was the restraining order/custody fight. I found that part of the story not at all believable. Not only were the legal aspects of this situation nonsensical, but all of the characters involved, Jackson, April, and Catherine Avery, acted in ways that were contrary to who the characters were. 

Catherine Avery: I can see Catherine being furious at April and going after April to get Jackson increased parental rights. But Catherine is a bully and is direct about going after what she wants. I don't see her sidling up and pretending to be sympathetic to April to find out incriminating information. Catherine has never been two-faced or snaky with other people. I did like her scenes with Webber, however, and how he influenced her to back down.

April: I don't believe she would get a restraining order against Jackson even if she overheard his mother plotting against her. I think it would be more in character that she would have confronted Jackson about what she overheard. I don't believe April would think that Jackson would sue her for custody of their baby. In the course of their relationship, neither of them had ever been vindictive towards each other or anyone one else. Further, when April & Jackson did fight about her pregnancy in episode 15, Jackson ended one of their fights saying he was out and the other saying accusing her of keeping news of the pregnancy from him so that it would be too late for an abortion if there was a problem with the baby. So, were she to believe the worst of Jackson, wouldn't it be that he would walk away from being a father rather than trying to take away her baby? Also, when Jackson shows up at her apartment, it's to apologize and he says that they'll work something out. The last conversation she and Jackson have before she overhears Catherine talking to Webber, April suggests they meet to talk about what they're going to do and the two of them are civil to each other. So, it seems that she realizes that some of the nastier things that she and Jackson said to each other when they fought over this pregnancy were said out of anger. 

Jackson: I think that he would have fought with his mother and gotten her to back down once she revealed her plan. I also think he would have met with April and talked with her directly about his and April's plans about this baby before April overheard his mother. He might even have given April a heads up about his mother's bullying and reassured April. I don't think he would have sent a crib with a note in lieu of talking directly. I wasn't sure what actions Jackson and his lawyer were taking in the scene in the lawyer's office. Are they just fighting this restraining order? Have they filed a lawsuit for fraud because April didn't disclose that she was pregnant before the divorce? Are they suing for custody? April's lawyer tells her that the restraining order set off an arms race, which implies that Jackson is taking legal action beyond getting the restraining order lifted. But it's not clear to me what he's trying to do.

Reasons why this custody plot was part of the story: I think it was a fake out to the real custody battle that happened between AZ and Callie. Also, I think that the writers wanted to take Jackson's character emotionally to a low point where he seems to just hate April to a place where he decides he's going to let that anger go and hold out an olive branch to bring about a rapprochement. I think they could have shown this emotional journey without the nonsense of a custody battle. They could have shown a couple of more scenes of the two of them fighting before Jackson reaches an epiphany that he should change the dynamic in their relationship.

Edited September 6, 2016 by mdw

[apn85]

I agree with all of the above. 

I felt like the custody battle episode was random, rushed, and just didn't make much sense. It was a definite stroll through rock bottom, which is what I think they were going for, but it was out of character for all three. 

I've talked plenty about April and Jackson here, but I've never touched on Catherine.......

I have to say that despite her meddling, I liked her relationship with April. I liked that out of all characters, April was the connection to Catherine and the one that knew her from before she ever came to Seattle Grace. I thought it was cute how Jackson got so worked up about the two of them being Facebook friends. I thought it was sweet how she honestly wanted April to find someone and be happy. Now yes, she was a total asshole when that someone turned out to be her son, but even that I think was more about not being told beforehand. I thought throughout the loss of Samuel she was there for them and specifically April when her own Mother didn't even provide much comfort. I liked the dynamic between the two of them. So different yet they worked. So imagine my thoughts when that episode happened. Like you say, Catherine would have never pretended to be concerned about April to get information out of her. She would have simply marched in that lounge and blurted out what she wanted to say. I don't like the direction they have taken Catherine when it comes to her relationship with April. Yes, I know she is going to be protective of her son, but she's a smart woman and knows the lengths a Mother will go to for her child. I'd think she'd want to be amicable with April so that she could be involved in every aspect of her grandchild's life! Some things are worth just letting bygones be bygones. Time with your grandchild would be one of those things, I'd think. Guess that wouldn't make for good TV, though. 

I did see somewhere that in 13x01 Catherine and April will be at odds over the new baby. About what specifically, who knows, but all I do know is that Jackson better step up and shut it down. April may no longer be his wife, but she is the Mother of his daughter, and she doesn't deserve Catherine's bullshit. 

[mdw]

12 hours ago, apn85 said:

I agree with all of the above. 

I felt like the custody battle episode was random, rushed, and just didn't make much sense. It was a definite stroll through rock bottom, which is what I think they were going for, but it was out of character for all three. 

I've talked plenty about April and Jackson here, but I've never touched on Catherine.......

I have to say that despite her meddling, I liked her relationship with April. I liked that out of all characters, April was the connection to Catherine and the one that knew her from before she ever came to Seattle Grace. I thought it was cute how Jackson got so worked up about the two of them being Facebook friends. I thought it was sweet how she honestly wanted April to find someone and be happy. Now yes, she was a total asshole when that someone turned out to be her son, but even that I think was more about not being told beforehand. I thought throughout the loss of Samuel she was there for them and specifically April when her own Mother didn't even provide much comfort. I liked the dynamic between the two of them. So different yet they worked. So imagine my thoughts when that episode happened. Like you say, Catherine would have never pretended to be concerned about April to get information out of her. She would have simply marched in that lounge and blurted out what she wanted to say. I don't like the direction they have taken Catherine when it comes to her relationship with April. Yes, I know she is going to be protective of her son, but she's a smart woman and knows the lengths a Mother will go to for her child. I'd think she'd want to be amicable with April so that she could be involved in every aspect of her grandchild's life! Some things are worth just letting bygones be bygones. Time with your grandchild would be one of those things, I'd think. Guess that wouldn't make for good TV, though. 

I did see somewhere that in 13x01 Catherine and April will be at odds over the new baby. About what specifically, who knows, but all I do know is that Jackson better step up and shut it down. April may no longer be his wife, but she is the Mother of his daughter, and she doesn't deserve Catherine's bullshit. 

I agree with everything you wrote here. I think Catherine would have wanted Jackson to be with a different type of woman from April. Do you remember the episode in which Jackson's mother brought a student of hers and had Jackson give her a tour of the hospital? I think Catherine would have chosen someone like that woman for her son - someone who is worldly, sophisticated, upperclass, top of her field, someone who is strong but also shares Catherine's point of view.

Catherine was so angry because her feelings were hurt that she didn't get to be a part of the wedding but she may also have been angry that she didn't get to weigh in and direct things to a certain extent. Catherine's definitely ultra-controlling. She kind of high jacked Jackson's career and put him in charge of the hospital without informing him or asking him.

I'm interested to see what the conflict between April and Catherine is. I would think that April would be angry with Catherine for manipulating April earlier and instigating that whole custody/legal dispute. I'd also think that she might be wary of Catherine trying to undermine her. Catherine might be still angry at April for the restraining order, not realizing that April did that in reaction to overhearing Catherine talking about suing for custody. I'd hope that Catherine would respect and appreciate what April went through to deliver a healthy baby. Hopefully April will stand up for herself and they'll make peace. I agree with you that Jackson needs to keep his mother in her lane.

Did you see the preview pictures from the 1st episode? There are some cute ones of Japril and their baby. Somebody posted a link under spoilers and speculation. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by mdw

[apn85]

I did see those pics! Precious!

I agree that April most likely wouldn't have been the one Catherine would have picked out for Jackson. Though is any daughter-in-law? LOL. I do get what you are saying, though. I'm sure she wanted Jackson with a socialite type with a name attached and money to throw around. Either that or someone she could mold. Like Stephanie, for example. Get her early and make her who you want her to be. Remember Catherine wanting her to go into Urology and do a Fellowship under her? April was neither the type she would have chosen for Jackson nor was she someone that Catherine could get in her clutches and mold into what she thought the wife of the Avery heir should be like. 

Speaking of the Avery heir - I think another issue for Catherine is going to be that she is not going to be able to control this one. She pretty much did as she pleased with Jackson. She had him in those meetings as a teenager, made him a voting member when he was barely legal, and like you said above she tossed WAY too much responsibility on him when he NEVER asked for it. She will not be able to control the life of Jackson's daughter with April because April won't allow it. I know we'll never know for sure, cause Grey's isn't gonna go on that long, but I could see April saying no way is my child going to be given those responsibilities at 15 and 18 years old. Catherine better hope she finds her way to a grave before the next Avery in line to take over is of age. It's probably not going to have any resemblance to the picture she has painted.

With all that said, I do wish Catherine and April could find some peace with one another and agree to be civil. I do miss the peace they eventually found even after the marriage. They did have some sweet exchanges. Catherine needs to accept that April is the Mother of this baby and someone that will be a factor in every decision from here on out. April isn't going anywhere nor is she going to hand the reigns over to anyone else. April needs to make peace with the fact that Catherine is this baby's Grandmother and since she has a relationship with Jackson she will also have a relationship with this child. They just need to accept one another for who they are and move on. They don't have to be friends, but out of respect for Jackson and the baby - common ground needs to be found. I know being an Avery comes with a lot of unwanted, ridiculous crap and expectations, but that is who she decided to have babies with. Though if that can't happen, then Jackson needs to step in and control the situation when they have to be around one another. He needs to keep both women in their lanes. Previous jobs will seem like a walk in the park if he is refereeing Catherine and April from here on. :P

At the end of the day, I think Catherine underestimates April. This is the woman that had a kitchen table c-section without anesthesia - she has proven that she basically has no fear and cannot be reasoned with. I wish Catherine luck. ;)

[mdw]

It occurred to me while watching s12 that April and Catherine have a few striking similarities in their personalities. They are both relentless and tenacious in pursuing their goals and they both basically ignore other people's wishes/objections once they've made a decision.

[apn85]

They are definitely both very headstrong women. 

Like I said, I do miss Catherine and April getting along, and I hope that they can figure out a way to be amicable again. I think Debbie Allen and Sarah Drew play very well opposite one another. I always enjoyed their interactions. Besides, there wasn't a single Avery, April included, that didn't act awful at times during Season 12. I'm ready for everyone else to have the drama and the Avery crew to settle for a while. They have stressed me out enough the past couple seasons. 

[mdw]

There's a brief article in EW, with an update of the upcoming storylines. There are quotes from Shonda Rimes. Re. April and Jackson, she said something like they will deal with co-parenting as exes who still have feelings for each other. She made it sound like one of them might try to undermine the other's dating life. I hope I'm interpreting this wrong. I don't want either of them to get in other relationships. Most likely, if one of them were to date someone else, it would be Jackson. He's gorgeous and has an even personality.

[apn85]

I saw this and think the opposite, actually. 

I think April is just as capable of turning heads and having someone interested in her. Actually, in my opinion, April has a greater chance of catching the eye of someone that would be interested in a serious relationship and accepting that she has a child. Jackson is very attractive, yes, but there are way more gold digging women prowling around out there. I could see Jackson going on dates, but I am not really worried about him moving on to another serious relationship. 

If I had to wager a guess right now solely based on my opinion and nothing else, I think Jackson is going to be the one that doesn't like April dating and acting accordingly. Not getting what he wants isn't something he is very familiar with. Last season, or at least the first half, was all about April fighting for Jackson. She didn't want the divorce and only gave in when she finally allowed herself to accept the fact that he didn't want her any longer. She threw everything she had at it, but in the end he still chose to call it. In Grey's time, that was at least 9 months ago. She has had a long while to come to terms with how they ended. By the end of last season she honestly seemed to completely accept the fact that they would co-parent their baby. Nothing more and nothing less. She didn't seem at all in denial about where they stood. She seemed focused on her baby and at peace where Jackson was concerned. 

Jackson, on the other hand, was bogged down in so much anger that when he finally resurfaced I don't think he had dealt with everything April has concerning their relationship. I don't think he had come to the same realization. I have read several people mention the scene at Joe's between the two of them toward the end of the season where they were discussing custody arrangements. To me, April looked miserable there. She was there, she was willing to compromise and be amicable, but I don't think she was happy that she was sitting there discussing custody arrangements about a baby she'd not yet given birth to. That isn't what an expectant Mother wants to do. I don't think it was because she was still pining for Jackson at all. Jackson seemed way more upbeat in that scene, which I recall rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way. I use it as an example of the point I am trying to get back around to - I think when Jackson resurfaced from underneath the anger that he didn't realize just how deeply he had succeeded in hurting April. Justified or not, he successfully hurt her as bad as he felt he was hurt. Which is absolutely what I think all those antics, including the divorce, were about. Hurting her as badly as he possibly could. 

Not to mention, April has never been the most secure person on the show. Things Jackson felt should be obvious to her had to be spelled out. Like the fact that he had feelings for her. The fact that he could see her as more than someone he was having sex with. So I don't think she had a hard time at all believing he had no love left for her. So with all that said - I don't think Jackson has really thought about what it means to not have April in his life as anything but the Mother of his child. For so long he was just mad at her and focused on making her pay for walking out on him twice. I don't think he really took the time to stop, take all of that in, and let the fact that he let her go for good sink in. 

I could absolutely see her being asked out by someone and him not liking it. He never thought that far ahead. Never thought about what it might feel like to watch her build a life with another man. I think he's just been so in the past and looking no further than the present that he honestly never thought about it. He can't have it both ways. If he doesn't want her, then he has to know that someone else will come along that will and that will gladly accept his daughter as part of her life. 

It's not that I can't see Jackson dating someone. It's more the fact that for April their situation is old news. They have been divorced almost a year. What reason would she have to think it would do a bit of good to go back down that road? She's already done all she can there and I truly believe she has moved on. Sure, I think she still has feelings for Jackson as he's the Father of her child. But I think she has accepted their outcome and wouldn't see any point in objecting to his love life. 

It's a whole different ballgame with Jackson. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by apn85