Pentatonix: Season 3 Champs

[sunandmoon33]

So excited to have heard CSL twice this week on a local radio station here in Columbus, Ohio - woohoo! The station is part of the I {Heart} Radio network (that's a thing, right?) so hopefully new stations are adding the song to their playlists. The DJ said "That was "Can't Sleep Love" by Pentatonix who had the number 1 Billboard album last week."

The station also announced that Pentatonix is coming to Columbus for a Holiday concert in December - on the webpage PTX is the first name!

http://www.wnci.com/articles/jingle-ball-2015-495393/dave-and-jimmys-jingle-ball-2015-14062173/

[debbydeb]

I feel better now about the NYT article calling PTX plastic and robotic. 

Just read Forbes article that called Adele plastic and autotuned ("carrying the hallmarks of Melodyne") in her newest single. 

I guess basically, right now, if your recording is not a recording of a live in concert without mastering, it's fake and plastic?

 

And the writer alludes that what makes us root for acts like Adele (or PTX) is their story (much like American Idol sells the contestant's stories--which Scott admits why he didn't even get the final cut because he didn't have the Story)

What interview was it? Yahoo?

Scott was saying how the producer of American Idol was pushing him to come up with a sob story and he just couldn't

and Kirstie said: well your family is NORMAL! Your parents support you. Even as "choir nerds" they're not bullied because.. Martins HS?

Mitch was like: yeah, you're boring sistah.

 

But then again, if they're looking for something unprocessed and recorded in bedroom with a crappy iphone quality, 

why don't the industry just give it to them? that'll save some studio recording costs, right?

Send their singers into their bedroom and sing. 

(I think Liza MInelli's album Liza was actually recorded in her bedroom (although it's an acoustically sound bedroom), because of her bedrest after knee (or was it hip?) replacement surgery.

 

Meanwhile, I find this following article endlessly fascinating, about PTX recording process. 

I think what we often not realize, they're not only introducing a new Acappella possibility for the future in terms of arrangement and group layout, 

but also in terms how you record acappella. 

 

http://blog.thecurrent.org/2015/10/how-pentatonix-recorded-part-of-their-hit-album-in-minneapolis/

Blomquist explained that the group had a unique mic setup. Unlike most a capella groups, where multiple group members share just a couple of microphones, Pentatonix wanted each singer to be on an individual microphone, isolated from the other performers.

“It was a big challenge of having all of the singers be able to see each other, but having enough separation between them that the sound wasn’t bleeding from one singer to the next,” said Blomquist. “The end results were just amazing.”

[Kromm]

In some ways songs being mastered, balanced, cleaned up is a curse that all artists who record have to bear.  You can't NOT do it. Even so-called "Live Albums" often have cleanup run on them. It's the price of going up against every OTHER artist who cleans up their tracks--if you are the odd man out then you sound like shit.

 

That said, PTX does it less than many. The more important thing in hearing their sound properly is usually a small close space and heck, despite what Blomquist says above I think they often seem to sound better on one mike than five (something they can't do at concerts). To be frank, every recording I've ever heard of them in an arena... lacked. That's not their fault. It's just reality. It's true of most artists where there's any subtlety to their sound.

 

I'm sure Adele, using the other example, sounds great singing "Hello" live. It may not sound exactly the same, but it will sound good. 

 

I wonder if these same writers dissing them think Justin Bieber and Drake sound good live, or if they somehow sound magically un-fake on their recordings? If so... does not compute.  Then again we actually had that writer talk about how good Derulo sounded compared to the rest of the Pentatonix album. so... there's already some ridiculousness.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Kromm

[debbydeb]

Interesting account about PTX studio album, I'm guessing this one is for their more recent albums:

I spoke with their engineer once and he said he does use it but very slightly. His quote was that their vocal performances are "98% honest" and he only uses it to fix notes here and there.

There are a metric ton of clips on YouTube that show them pulling this stuff off live. The results are every bit as good live in almost all cases. "Can't Sleep Love" is weaker live because of the overdubbing.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/pentatonix-a-cappella-group.399020/

[ptxnewsandstuff]

Are you hungry? Scott doesn't know how to use a grater. Nice to see Gareth Malone on the show as well. Nothing but praise for them. Seal calling them "The Pentatonic." He gets off because he makes some cool points about the music industry. https://youtu.be/hy1Uybpx0YM?list=PLTRxhv5hwmixA61Hk41fDjK2CGqEhQLey

Edited November 2, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[Kromm]

Morning TV is even worse in the UK than the US, I know (and it's bad enough in the US already).

 

I actually think Cheerleader sounded a bit off in that. Something happens with Scott's voice sometimes (maybe when he's fatigued) where he just goes sharp. I think that happened here.

 

CSL in contrast was a pretty good performance. Scott was still maybe a hair sharp, but not as much (and the song relies just as much on Mitch, who seemed to be in good voice that day).

 

I liked that Radio Disney clip on the same playlist by the way. I mean I kind of despise Radio Disney as an entity, but I thought the appearance was really cute/fun.

 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Kromm

[debbydeb]

oh they're still in the top 10 this week!

#8 is not bad at all!

http://m.billboard.com/entry/view/id/145832

november sure brings all the big numbers. hundreds of k sales.

i wonder how their christmas album will do this year.

[Sharpie66]

That Sinday Brunch show was pretty fun! You could tell Gareth Malone was already a fan, and Seal had never heard of them before this, but was impressed. I think that was the most I have seen them interact with a talk show's hosts and other guests, so I liked the format for giving them that outlet.

And grest news for staying in the Top Ten! I was just hoping they would be in the Top 20.

[ptxnewsandstuff]

Awesome 2nd week sales. #8 on Billboard w/ 32k and #5 in album sales (24k). Though it would drop dramatically but it's an average drop around the 60-70% mark.

Xmas album won't fair well this November, a lot of major albums being released. Like last year where TSwift blocked PTX for #1, they might be hanging around the Top 5 around the December period. Still dominating the Billboard Holiday charts though. Mariah needs to move from that #1. I'm sick of that song.

 

Lots of records being broken in these past two weeks on the charts. Not PTX related but wow at Adele. In the record books, first person ever to sell over 1M in the US in the first week. 1.11million copies of "Hello" in a week. 5SOS, Carrie all broke records too. Nice to see PTX with first #1 a cappella album.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[debbydeb]

 

Xmas album won't fair well this November, a lot of major albums being released. Like last year where TSwift blocked PTX for #1, they might be hanging around the Top 5 around the December period. Still dominating the Billboard Holiday charts though. Mariah needs to move from that #1. I'm sick of that song.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link

What's happier for me is that their ORIGINAL christmas song made it to number 25!

That's great. Hopefully it can slowly be adopted as a new christmas staple. It's about time we have a new alternative. 

 

Meanwhile... 1.12m paid downloads in one week.wow. And barely lifting a finger to sell it. 

You know the oddest thing, when I was reading that bit of news, I kept imagining a future time when PTX will sell 1.1 million copies of a song in one go (I don't care if it's christmas or what, original or cover or colab).

I'd probably have a heart attack from excessive joy. my athsma would probably come back like it's Pollen Tornado 20xx.

Edited November 3, 2015 by debbydeb

[Kromm]

Xmas album won't fair well this November, a lot of major albums being released. Like last year where TSwift blocked PTX for #1, they might be hanging around the Top 5 around the December period. Still dominating the Billboard Holiday charts though. Mariah needs to move from that #1. I'm sick of that song.

They've nudged Mariah out of the way before.  I'm sure they can do it again, even if it's not a permanent year round displacement.

 

You know I've always wondered why Darlene Love doesn't live on top of that Holiday chart. 

[ptxnewsandstuff]

Amongst all this craziness, "Can't Sleep Love" is still quietly climbing the charts. Although I have no idea what happened at AC radio but what an achievement, cracking into the Top 40 at Pop radio.

 

Oct 26-Nov 1

20 AC (16)

^31 HAC (35)

^40 Pop (45)

[SrPab]

Sometimes, I get weary from adulting.

 

Just curious: does AC and HAC play the PTX-only version of CSL, while Pop plays CSL ft. Tink? Also, what's the source of these stats--Hits DD?

 

ETA: As a point of comparison, while Pentatonix dropped 67%, Lovato's Confident dropped 80% (according a few tweets I've come across). That race (and accompanying hype) to #1 front-loaded those albums' sales figures even more.

Edited November 4, 2015 by SrPab

[ToxicUnicorn]

I have one more comment about the new album, and then I'll try to stop. 

 

I think "Water" sounds great until Kirsti says (to my ears), 'Ow I ish you you were mine'.  It bothers me every time, because one of the things I love about all of them is that they usually sing the lyrics so clearly. 

 

I also can't understand all the lyrics in Ref.

[debbydeb]

I have one more comment about the new album, and then I'll try to stop.

I think "Water" sounds great until Kirsti says (to my ears), 'Ow I ish you you were mine'. It bothers me every time, because one of the things I love about all of them is that they usually sing the lyrics so clearly.

I also can't understand all the lyrics in Ref.

Actually it baffles me also. This time there are many lyrics that are not sung clearly. Or maybe it just sounded that way to my ear? (clear for anybody else?)

For to the river:

Take me to the ... where my breaking point ....

i can't decipher it.

[SrPab]

I think the additional sounds (body percussion) may have something to do with not hearing certain lyrics clearly. I haven't made out everything in Ref yet.

 

However, I think the Water lyrics are:

"Could I tell you this time

How I wish you were mine"

 

TTR lyrics:

"So lead me to the bend

Where my breaking point is thin"

[debbydeb]

Thanks SrPab!

One of these days I'm going to crack and get myself the Japanese version of the album only for the lyrics book that comes with it.

[Sharpie66]

If you have Amazon Prime, stream the album at the Amazon Music app, and you can read the lyrics as the song is playing.

[debbydeb]

Meanwhile, I just came back from Tumblring (is this the word?)

And saw this:

A Super Deluxe album released in Germany.

all the songs in target version + docu

(2cds)

Also available from Best Buy online site. Apparently.

the link to the stores are somewhere to the bottom of the page, scroll past all the caps lock and squeeing basically.

http://aaytn.tumblr.com/post/132552254107/pop-dinge-aaytn-pop-dinge-aaytn

So far: germany and japan (and best buy) has the 2 cd version.

I hope they'll roll out a 2 cd version for my country too. Fingers crossed :)

[ptxnewsandstuff]

A lot of the Asian countries have the DVD version. Taiwan's comes with coasters :)

 

All the stats you're seeing are 100% correct. They're all connected to the Nielson/Soundscan peeps and most reports come from them when the media is reporting predictions. PTX is tracking well in the third week, sales only is approx 15k-18k.

[debbydeb]

A lot of the Asian countries have the DVD version. Taiwan's comes with coasters :)

 

All the stats you're seeing are 100% correct. They're all connected to the Nielson/Soundscan peeps and most reports come from them when the media is reporting predictions. PTX is tracking well in the third week, sales only is approx 15k-18k.

 

Coasters!! Very cool.

 

So they have over 100k albums sold so far? 

I'm so glad that it's quite well received. And I'm so glad to see all the column inches dedicated to talking about them, and acappella in general. 

 

From the live tweets and stuff, I see that the CMAs is actually inviting a lot of pop-stream artists to present to country music artist? I think this is a good cross promotion. Are they going to perform? 

[SrPab]

PTX presented the "Group Of The Year" award. Before reading the list of nominees, they performed a short tribute to the Oak Ridge Boys by singing a few seconds of Elvira--on three mics (one for Kevin, one for Avi, and one shared by the trio). They got a standing ovation after the brief sing.

 

I think this was also the longest amount of airtime they've gotten on one of these awards shows.

[debbydeb]

PTX presented the "Group Of The Year" award. Before reading the list of nominees, they performed a short tribute to the Oak Ridge Boys by singing a few seconds of Elvira--on three mics (one for Kevin, one for Avi, and one shared by the trio). They got a standing ovation after the brief sing.

 

I think this was also the longest amount of airtime they've gotten on one of these awards shows.

 

Can't wait for the videos!!! I'm sure they killed it. I keep refreshing Youtube to find a video, but none yet. I know it's going to #soon be up. I just need to keep on refreshing :) *hint hint to @ptxnewsandstuff*

To me it's so funny to learn that their first Live Performance on an award show is at the COUNTRY Music Awards. 

[ptxnewsandstuff]

So good. Standing ovation for presenters? Did anyone of the performers even get one? It was on Youtube but was taken down instantly, luckily the CMA's twitter account has it up. Going viral maybe? So many people actually think they're country.

https://twitter.com/CountryMusic/status/662112337214607361

Edited November 5, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[debbydeb]

OHHH

 

So good. Standing ovation for presenters? Did anyone of the performers even get one? It was on Youtube but was taken down instantly, luckily the CMA's twitter account has it up. Going viral maybe? So many people actually think they're country.

https://twitter.com/CountryMusic/status/662112337214607361

 

THANK YOU! 

Great show of talent there and so glad to see that they are warmly welcomed by the audience. So many happy faces (that guy at the very right in the very last frame has a huge smile on his face), some "they do it? just them?" faces (like Lily Tomlin @ Kennedy Center Honors).  I am sooooo excited for them. And Mitch's trench? Wow. I'd steal it OFF his person in a heartbeat if I could rock it half as much as he did. But alas... jute and mourning sacks for me. 

 

The less savory note: the infighting has started, despite the fact that PTX and HF are friends!! I stopped scrolling to see the comments. Any comments really. 

 

*watches the video again, to make myself happy again*

 

 

On another note, what's this I see on Google News aggregator? Lindsey Stirling was there too? WOW!!

Edited November 5, 2015 by debbydeb

[ptxnewsandstuff]

I know. It was an opportunity for PTX. Who would turn it down? (HF are probably lowkey disappointed)

 

Lindsey was great. Lot's of Pop/rock/country infusion going on tonight.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Thank you for all of this, folks!  This comment right below the video hits the nail on the head, although the guy sitting in the middle at 1:01 is pretty funny too:

 

Joceline Havill ‏@JocelineAnne 2h2 hours ago

@CountryMusic @AngelofMusicDT @PTXofficial watching other people enjoy PTX is like a drug

Edited November 5, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[debbydeb]

Apparently this thing with CMA inviting pop stars is to sort of boost its viewership numbers and has been doing so for the past many years. Last year they had Ariana Grande and Meghan Trainor (and they sang Bang Bang and All About that Bass respectively, not exactly country music--at least PTX sings Elvira). Jason Mraz in 2013, Kelly Clarkson in 2012, Natasha Beddingfield in 2011, and so on and so forth.

Although these moves are not always appreciated: http://www.axs.com/cmas-losing-way-booking-pop-stars-like-meghan-trainor-ariana-grande-26652

 

Nothing against HF (I love them), but even if HF has been available they'll probably still invite PTX over (although I'd prefer to have PTX collaborate with HF! Like the other artists on the show, like Lindsey and Dierks Bentley collab on the stage. 

 

They know that by inviting PTX, they'll get a few more eyes on the television sets, I guess. 

 

 

Meanwhile, Billboard tries to pander to both sides of the A Cappella argument (yay or nay) with two different verdicts.

 

One very favorable, although. Pentatonxi? Well, I console my self at least it's not The Pentatonxi.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/6753142/2015-cmas-best-worst-moments

"No backing track, no backup singers, no instruments -- Pentatonxi delivered one of the night's most unexpected delights with a quick a cappella take on Oak Ridge Boys' classic "Elvira." The country crowd responded well to the YouTube-turned-pop stars, giving them a standing ovation."

 

And another one very unfavorable (they rank PTX's appearance near the very bottom).

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/6753143/cma-awards-performances-ranked

"Country already has plenty of artful harmonies, so the presence of an a cappella group felt unnecessary."

Edited November 5, 2015 by debbydeb

[ToxicUnicorn]

"Country already has plenty of artful harmonies, so the presence of an a cappella group felt unnecessary."

 

That's really dumb.  That's like saying Baskin Robbins already had 21 flavors of ice cream, so why should Ben and Jerry invent Cherry Garcia?  Or we already taught French and German in college in the '50s (I'm told) so why add Spanish or Chinese?  (I could go on, but I'm stifling.)

[SrPab]

I should've just gone straight to bed after their performance/presentation...

 

I came across a few congratulatory tweets and decided to take a quick peek on their FB page. What's the first post I see on their Wall? It was left by either a troll or homophobe: "...gays shouldn't be on CMA."

 

Anyway, kudos to them despite the haters (as well as the dazed and confused). I think their performance was as well-received as it was because it was old-school Country. A lot of people appreciated the nod to Country's earlier days (notice how many in the audience were singing along).

[debbydeb]

@SrPab, you mentioned Ref and lyrics.

that is actually also one that baffles me! But because I don't listen to it a lot I forgot about it. There's a lot of words that has lost their vowels.

I found some lyrics video on youtube and found that Nayeh Nayeh is actually Not yet Not yet

and

Ibeh Ibeh is I bet I bet :)

then

You winka winkle cuz I'm the Ref

is actually you ain't going to win cause I'm the Ref

and a lot more that I don't remember it's making me a bit selfconscious about my knowing english :D

Edited November 5, 2015 by debbydeb

[Kromm]

I came across a few congratulatory tweets and decided to take a quick peek on their FB page. What's the first post I see on their Wall? It was left by either a troll or homophobe: "...gays shouldn't be on CMA."

Sadly, while there are far more exceptions these days, that's still the default "country" attitude towards gays.  At least the part of country that projects itself onto the Internet (keeping in mind it's hard to know how representative that is).

 

Even more shockingly one of them is Jewish! I wonder that we haven't seen that punched to death in the troll comments too (they'd likely do that even before "one of them is black"). You gotta wonder how long Kinky Friedman has lived with the first, and Darius Rucker the second. (EDIT - The CMAs actually joked about that last thing--go look up the Star Wars sketch they did with Rucker inside a Stormtrooper costume and the slightly provocative statement they had him make)

 

To me it's so funny to learn that their first Live Performance on an award show is at the COUNTRY Music Awards.

You know for me the biggest shock was that the CMAs didn't try to hedge their bets by introducing them as "Texas' Pentatonix" or something like that. Anything to establish their country-cred, I mean (given that the Trio certainly grew up surrounded by it, even if they didn't perform it).

 

BTW: until it's taken down...

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Kromm

[Geeze]

Thanks, Kromm.  I searched frantically for that most of the day.  The thing that saved it for them imho was Avi's bass (Oakridge had a formidable bass also) and that last "El-vi-RUH!"  They kind of twanged it which was a good move.  Not a bad tribute and they did it with a beatboxer (oh, the blasphemy) and a girl (Oakridge was some heavy testosterone).

Edited November 5, 2015 by Geeze

[SrPab]

Unrelated to recent discussion, I came across this while window-shopping. Mind you, I don't think they are famous but it tells me something that people are taking a cappella songs and arranging them for voices + instruments. It feels like the circle is complete--because CSL probably began life on keyboard/piano (or a MIDI/ProTools/Finale-equivalent).

 

For many vids I've come across of people covering PTX material, they're a cappella--or they're done with simple accompaniment (guitar, or drum set/cajon).

 

ETA: I did a good job today avoiding Twitter and FB--this recent drama with PTX's CMA appearance annoys me.

Edited November 7, 2015 by SrPab

[Kromm]

ETA: I did a good job today avoiding Twitter and FB--this recent drama with PTX's CMA appearance annoys me.

It's only the latest round. Apparently as soon as the moral majority types realized that the Christmas album they loved last year was from GAY PEOPLE they freaked out and wrote stuff like this (warning: you may burst a blood vessel from rage reading it): http://taministries.com/christiansdidyouknow/

[ToxicUnicorn]

I'm going to make like SrPab and ignore the haters.  I keep trying to remind myself that there are nasty people in virtually every community.  I might get more worked up except it looks like PTX are all very secure in who they are and they will have plenty of fans who will fight these wars for them, I'm sure.

 

I found some lyrics video on youtube and found that Nayeh Nayeh is actually Not yet Not yet
and
Ibeh Ibeh is I bet I bet :)

Thank you, debbydeb.  Knowing these are words will help me next time.  I was hearing some kind of cross between Nyet and a sneeze.  I wonder how one says Gesundheit in Russian?

[SrPab]

Palate-cleanser...obviously not great quality (and it's Periscope) but may I present: The Revenge Of Cracker Barrel.

[Kromm]

Argh, Periscope is really the worst thing ever invented. Okay, not literally, but I'll never get why it's a "thing".  Just turn your fucking phone camera the other way damnit!  Pleaaaaaaase!  Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

I laughed at the suggestion a little while back that Cracker Barrel really had anything to do with the album going #1. I still do. That said, I DO wonder if Cracker Barrel, with it's generally Red State presence, might be part of why the CMT audience was willing to give PTX a chance (before the inevitable uglier elements got all "gay cooties" about them). I mean there's some crossover there.

[debbydeb]

Someone posted all the lyrics to the Pentatonix album taken from the Japan editiion:

https://twitter.com/tipples84/status/662408333257756672

the ibeh ah ah ibeh

everyone thinks its i bet, i i bet

but the lyrics in the Jpn edition is

back (ah ah) back

hmm

[debbydeb]

Argh, Periscope is really the worst thing ever invented. Okay, not literally, but I'll never get why it's a "thing". Just turn your fucking phone camera the other way damnit! Pleaaaaaaase! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

I laughed at the suggestion a little while back that Cracker Barrel really had anything to do with the album going #1. I still do. That said, I DO wonder if Cracker Barrel, with it's generally Red State presence, might be part of why the CMT audience was willing to give PTX a chance (before the inevitable uglier elements got all "gay cooties" about them). I mean there's some crossover there.

is it also because they're a cappella?

That article about Ariana and Meghan also touched upon how Country music is "trying to

leave its roots" by sounding more and more pop and rock (one of the biggest country star Taylor Swift isn't the most country sounding singer when she was country)

That they make Vocal Group as a main award says a lot about their appreciation for a cappella i think. That's why someone on twitter laughed and said Pentatonix is actually one of the most proper country acts on stage that night.

https://twitter.com/gregstamps/status/662106452144709632

Goth trench coat :)

I'm not sure what the state of country music is in the US since it's not widely reported here, and whether that twitter poster is genuinely appreciative of Pentatonix or half-using them to take a swipe at the country music industry, I don't know.

Edited November 6, 2015 by debbydeb

[SrPab]

The universe is free to correct my misconceptions but what I've come away with over the past few years is that some Country music fans dislike this thing called nuCountry. (nuCountry detractors may also be part of a faction not enamored of broCountry--where wimmin-folk need not apply.)

 

It seems to me that the uneasiness about nuCountry is that it has more pop music elements and sensibilities, making it too close (dangerously close?) to Pop. A not-insignificant percentage of Country music fans would prefer that the music sounded more like what they heard in the 60s/70s/80s. Having said that, I think the sentiment is more nuanced than boiling it down to "More banjo!"

 

You've seen tweets from those praising PTX for giving the most Country-like performance? Not all of those tweeters were joking.

Edited November 6, 2015 by SrPab

[ptxnewsandstuff]

The partnership between Cracker Barrel and PTX is so odd, I love it.

 

It's only the latest round. Apparently as soon as the moral majority types realized that the Christmas album they loved last year was from GAY PEOPLE they freaked out and wrote stuff like this (warning: you may burst a blood vessel from rage reading it): http://taministries.com/christiansdidyouknow/

OMG! Did you see the video he posted a couple weeks back? Everyone on Twitter was trying to get it reported. Hilarious.

 

99% of responses on Twitter were positive. Loved the few backhanded compliments though. A couple of watchers described them as "goth" kids. 

 

Oh and that whole HF drama thing. We sent out a tweet saying it was an opportunity for PTX, there were many replies and Scott favorited a couple of them. Haha, Scott we see you.

He just had to favorite this one.

"@ptxnewsandstuff I guess they should've turned the opportunity down because some other group performed that song once??"

[Geeze]

You've seen tweets from those praising PTX for giving the most Country-like performance? Not all of those tweeters were joking.

I wasn't kidding about that twang in that last "Elvira."  To Mitch Grassi it, "that's what you get when Texas raised ya....."

[SrPab]

I wasn't kidding about that twang in that last "Elvira."  To Mitch Grassi it, "that's what you get when Texas raised ya....."

Heh. The trio are from Texas, Kevin and his family have/had lived in Kentucky for years, and Avi loves folk music and has described himself as a country boy. Perhaps they could be a Country a cappella group if they were so inclined.

 

 

Oh and that whole HF drama thing. We sent out a tweet saying it was an opportunity for PTX, there were many replies and Scott favorited a couple of them. Haha, Scott we see you.

He just had to favorite this one.

"@ptxnewsandstuff I guess they should've turned the opportunity down because some other group performed that song once??"

 

Assuming the CMA powers-that-be considered HF for presentation duties, as well as giving a tribute to ORB, I wonder how many realize that:

• HF couldn't be physically present to do it because they had a concert in Canada that same night
• Many awards shows tend to be (heavily) scripted--so almost all the words that could have come out of Tim Foust's mouth could come from Scott's, too--with help from a teleprompter
• Just because HF did a collab cover with ORB doesn't mean covers are exclusive to whoever does them first, or most recently
• Perhaps some CMA producer was determined to get an a cappella group to do it, and because PTX is Pop a cappella, s/he gets to kills two birds with one stone (as there was quite a Pop presence for the night's events)
• It never has to be a cappella. The universe could have easily made it so that a non-a cappella pop artist did the tribute and presentation. Or, it could have been one of ORB's peers from back in the day doing it. Equally, PTX could have never gotten successful enough to be noticed by anyone. Hell, the universe could have made one tweak that would have stopped PTX from existing at all.

Edited November 6, 2015 by SrPab

[Kromm]

The universe is free to correct my misconceptions but what I've come away with over the past few years is that some Country music fans dislike this thing called nuCountry. (nuCountry detractors may also be part of a faction not enamored of broCountry--where wimmin-folk need not apply.)

 

It seems to me that the uneasiness about nuCountry is that it has more pop music elements and sensibilities, making it too close (dangerously close?) to Pop. A not-insignificant percentage of Country music fans would prefer that the music sounded more like that they heard in the 60s/70s/80s. Having said that, I think the sentiment is more nuanced than boiling it down to "More banjo!"

 

You've seen tweets from those praising PTX for giving the most Country-like performance? Not all of those tweeters were joking.

That's a big oversimplification. It's not as simple as "old vs. new".  But there are also elements of that which are correct too.

 

Various people named Hank Williams demonstrate this somewhat (although not totally).

 

The oldest stuff is the country that was basically Bluegrass. Musically it's far superior to most of what followed. Culturally it was listened to and performed by people who were backwoods (Hillbillies), but not necessarily unsophisticated.  Think Hank Williams. Kind of sliding eventually into Elvis Presley, and sticking around even when some other forms of country were around with early Dolly Parton (before she went very mainstream).

 

In the 50s and 60s though, some boring crap popped up in country... I think the bulk of this is what people often now wind up calling "Traditional Country". A lot of bad stuff... a little bit of good (with someone like Johnny Cash, at least).

 

It got staid enough so that when some other folk (more influenced by Hippie Culture) popped up to contrast, they became "Outlaw Country". Which was far better than the boring crap from a few years earlier, although not always as good as the even earlier Bluegrass. Think Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, maybe even Kris Kristopherson, although he (like Dolly Parton) went more mainstream from his roots eventually.

 

Then in the 70s country seems to have been infected by a lot of the same sensibilities as Arena Rock.  Then maybe a little bit by New Wave music in the early 80s. But the "bro-country/shit-kicking stuff seems to have gelled around this time too. On the less offensive side, think Garth Brooks. On the more offensive side, back to the Williams family with Hank Williams Junior. Or a lot of middle of the road crap like Kenny Chesney (I know he wasn't around until the 90s, I just mean he's a good example of fairly mediocre bro-country, IMO, because as I say further on that stuff just hung around...)

 

I'd say the 90s though brought some stuff going the other direction. That's when Alt-Country developed. If you've heard k.d. lang, Chris Isaak, Neko Case... people like that, you know what I mean. Stuff that largely didn't suck. I think Hank Williams III tried to plant his flag in this kind of stuff but never really became that successful.

 

But I guess that Bro-country also never really died. I think what evolved since then is a kind of three way battle between the bro-country/shit-kicking music, the even-more poppish "NuCountry" stuff (think early Taylor Swift, but lets be honest, also Carrie Underwood) and a kind of uber-category of Altish stuff that probably includes Bluegrass revival and a lot of the Alt-Country stuff that started in the 90s. 

 

To be fair, even the poppish stuff has vastly different levels of talent between different acts. I mean is it really fair to lump in The Dixie Chicks (who always had quite a bit of talent) with someone like early Taylor Swift (who sucked back then--Kanye was right)?  Or the fairly talented The Band Perry with the kind of boring as hell Rascal Flatts (who kind of border on the Bro-country anyway)?

 

Heck, even getting back to those cheesy old fart Country groups, I'd say there's a spectrum there too. The horrible Statler Brothers on one end. The fairly entertaining Oak Ridge Boys kind of on the other.

 

And there are all kinds of nooks and crannies to country on top of all this, I'd say. Acts that don't fit any of these categories. Or multiple of them.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Kromm

[SrPab]

Re: Oversimplification...agreed. But, I've heard "nuCountry" and "broCountry" bandied about for years--and not as terms of endearment. I liken it to discussion upthread regarding that NYT "review". Perhaps those disparaging nuCountry have an idealized notion of what Country music should be/must be--and won't abide music that is out of alignment with their expectations/demands.

[debbydeb]

@ Kromm thanks for the quick history on Country :D 

Between yesterday and today, I tried to use my free time to look up country but there's just too much to slog through even the different pages of Wikipedia I sort of gave up. But your summary makes it easier to digest! SO thanks for that. IF only I can give you two thumbs up. (Should Previously TV make this  a thing? j/k)

 

(PS: CMA Awards organizers, you win. Your strategy of bringing in pop stars to draw in new audience to country paid off--at least I got curious about it. Bit background: 'country' where I live is for line dancing parties. That's it. And it's mostly the older men and women, the below 30s are too much into Jpop, and now Kpop). 

 

I love how Kevin tweeted that JT came up and praised PTX and Scott. A collaboration in the future?

They met Carrie Underwood or no? I think Jake (was he there, I think he was) is a big Carrie Underwood fan. 

Apparently Jeremy (Justin? what's his name, Kirstie's boyfriend, jm_lewis on twitter) tweeted during PTX performance of Elvira that everybody should go check out Home Free's Elvira. Afterwards, Kirstie retweeted it and added her own I think. And Kirstie wore a HF band shirt many times.  

This proves there's really nothing sinister about PTX's performance. They're not trying to steal anybody's spotlight.

 

Speaking of collaborations, I hope that their appearance on CMA will lead to a lot of collaborations. I think it'll make Avi, lover of folk music, happy. 

 

(speaking of folk, this is going to show off in a bad way my lack of knowledge, but

what's the difference between folk and country? Is folk part of/a subgenre of country?)

 

Re: 

Second straight day of restraining myself from scrolling down to the comments. Any comments. The 'pearlclutching' spilled over to some other non-CMA videos on youtube. (YES you pearl clutchers, we know! two are gay, one is a jew, another one's african american, and the girl is living in sin. shut up already) Ugh. Whyyy...

I forgot which video it is (too not bothered to look it up again), but they brought up Tattoos!! It's sinful! The mind boggles.

Sorry I'm venting this here. I'm too wimp to vent on Youtube comments. But my blood boils. :D 

Edited November 6, 2015 by debbydeb

[Geeze]

(speaking of folk, this is going to show off in a bad way my lack of knowledge, but

what's the difference between folk and country? Is folk part of/a subgenre of country?)

 

I think this site does a fairly good job: http://folkmusic.about.com/od/faq/qt/FolkCountry.htm 

 

That means that country is not as old as its folk roots.  In fact, I remember (screen name is real) country used to be called Country Western.

 

I really like bluegrass myself.  Think that Man of Constant Sorrows song from the film George Clooney was in, O Brother Where Art Thou.

 

To stay on topic:  Pentatonix

Edited November 6, 2015 by Geeze

[kilomperrara]

Regarding the history of Country music, don't forget the dance music aspect.  In the 30's, 40's and later, there was Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys.  San Antonio Rose, Take me back to Tulsa...  and everyone dancing the two-step.  Country as dance music kinda peaked in Urban Cowboy with John Travolta. So, I guess country swing and the Big Band era were both overtaken by electric guitars. 

 

Re blood boiling - If singing Christmas songs were limited to "bona fide" Christians, there be a lot fewer songs.

[ToxicUnicorn]

@ Kromm thanks for the quick history on Country :D

 

Kromm, I second this - very informative, and I learned that I've both liked and (intensely) disliked acts in every time period and subgenre.  I'll add that I first discovered country in the context of loving The Eagles (whose sound I grew up loving) and then finding out that their sound was close to the sound of country, so I've never felt the blanket antipathy/dismissive feelings that a lot of pop/rock listeners of my generation also felt toward country (although, boy, I remember some stinkers when I was growing up).

 

Some of the country/bluegrass that I really have loved include The Nashville Bluegrass Band (who lent one of their talents to Man of Constant Sorrow in Oh Brother Where Art Thou) - good call, Geeze.  I think this board would appreciate "Blind Bartimus", if you can find it.  I wonder if Avi knows it.

 

The 'pearlclutching' spilled over to some other non-CMA videos on youtube. (YES you pearl clutchers, we know! two are gay, one is a jew, another one's african american, and the girl is living in sin. shut up already) Ugh. Whyyy...

 

Ug, that gives pearls such a bad connotation!  (haha)  What gets me is that PTX keeps its act and lyrics pretty squeaky clean, which ought to appeal to those very same country critics.  And they obviously haven't watched the documentary where KO is shown as leading a little prayer before a performance.  Yikes.  People can be so loud and judgmental and ignorant at the same time.  (At least I try to find out a little bit before I'm loud and judgmental.)

 

I wasn't kidding about that twang in that last "Elvira."  To Mitch Grassi it, "that's what you get when Texas raised ya....."

I heard that, too, and thought it was very smart for them to do. 

 

So I'm at the stage in learning about the Pentatonix album where I googled some of the songwriter credits.  Here's a piece of extreme trivia: one of the songwriters on Take Me Home (Audra Mae) is, according to Wikipedia, the great-great-neice of Judy Garland.

 

Does anyone know how songwriting credits are ordered?  Sometimes, the kids are listed first, and sometimes they're listed later.  Is there any rhyme or reason?