Pentatonix: Season 3 Champs

[SrPab]

For anyone posting or lurking in this thread, please consider the following...

 

Tunes To Teens is a CASA program designed to get a cappella music into (elementary, middle, and high-) schools. If you have any CDs, either recently purchased (hint, hint) or owned for years, that you could donate please consider sending them to this address:

 

Chris Tess

Tunes To Teens
7 Rybury Hillway
Needham, MA  02492

 

I may have bought a few extra copies of Pentatonix, and will be sending these to TTT. I have no affiliation with CASA.

Edited October 20, 2015 by SrPab

[Sharpie66]

This explains the Cracker Barrel tweet.

 

I don't know about this one. CB has had a bad rep with me ever since the series of racist behavior several years ago. Also, let's face it, Cracker Barrel will never be cool.

[debbydeb]

Just going by the Today's Show recording, I think CSL and Misbehavin' translate very well into live performances.

http://www.today.com/video/clap-your-hands-pentatonix-performs-cracked-on-today-547887683626

Meanwhile Cracked fell into the same 'trap' as Love Again during Media rounds (and even worse, TV rounds--some radios with good mixer hands help) and sounded very thin.

Some songs are very good as acoustics songs, others are better for concert settings with a proper mixing person.

I think the could either:

- go with more acoustic-y songs

- have acoustic arrangements for their more EDM-y songs (a lot of 'traditional' singers do this too anyway, like they'll have a plugged and unplugged arrangement of the same song for instance).

OTHER THAN THAT...

I have not enough praise in the world for them. They have grown so much and come so far its ridonkculous.

[SrPab]

In case you don't already know, they're having a live stream today at 4:30pm U.S. ET via younow.com/pentatonix--singing + Q&A.

 

Is sounding "thin" due to many venues (including radio stations and tv show sets) not dealing well with mic'ed a cappella (including having an in-house sound person experienced with, I think the term is "reinforced", a cappella)?

Edited October 20, 2015 by SrPab

[debbydeb]

In case you don't already know, they're having a live stream today at 4:30pm U.S. ET via younow.com/pentatonix--singing + Q&A.

Is sounding "thin" due to many venues (including radio stations and tv show sets) not dealing well with mic'ed a cappella (including having an in-house sound person experienced with, I think the term is "reinforced", a cappella)?

I just read my post and I actually meant to write "without good mixing help"... oh well me and keyboards.

However I do notice that compared to the previous years, the mix is getting better. I hope it's part of their educational tour that they're forcing media to see the benefits of getting good mixing person. Haha, pipe dream?

Also, I just learned from ptxfan twitter that Bulk Buying is counted as 1 CD?

Wow that's harsh.

Does that mean that if I want to buy 10 CDs and make it count, I have to mAke 10 separate purchases? I hope no one at the cashier or the queue behind me would get mad at me!

[SrPab]

I heard about that bulk buying thing, too. Oh well, that means my total CD purchases amount to 4 units (covering 4+ actual CDs).

 

If you can get to Amazon.com, they are offering a discount on the album. But I don't know if that applies to non-U.S. countries and territories.

Edited October 20, 2015 by SrPab

[ptxnewsandstuff]

Also, I just learned from ptxfan twitter that Bulk Buying is counted as 1 CD?

Wow that's harsh.

Does that mean that if I want to buy 10 CDs and make it count, I have to mAke 10 separate purchases? I hope no one at the cashier or the queue behind me would get mad at me!

Anything over 10 will count as 1 album. Under is okay. 

Very good Huffingtonpost interview

 

Their Today Show appearances

Edited October 21, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[Sharpie66]

I think that the bulk purchase thing was probably borrowed from the book industry, where the bestseller lists have learned to modify the bulk purchases of various political figures' books so that they don't dominate the lists unfairly.

[SrPab]

Odds and ends...

 

• If you are streaming Pentatonix, don't mute volume as your streams won't count (apparently, there is tech/coding that can detect this). Just have the volume very low but not turned off.
• Did any of you attend the YouNow live stream/pep rally? I've seen tweets saying 1,000 albums were sold in 45 mins (1,500,000 equivalent streams). Hits Daily Double updated their estimates and still said Lovato's album was ahead overall but that Pentatonix was leading in pure sales. I think that HDD update came before or during the pep rally. If the YouNow album sales are factored in, does that mean PTX has jumped ahead, or at least closed the gap?

Edited October 21, 2015 by SrPab

[debbydeb]

What new albums are going to be released next week? is there any chance for Pentatonix album to sustain a 1-2 position in billboard chart until End of October? I remember their Holiday album was no 2 for a loooong time behind Taylor Swift? I know that come November all hell will break loose with Bieber and One Direction having a throwdown in the first week (if the Pentaholics vs Lovatics seems crazy, I think the Beliebers vs Directioners would be epic) and then its The Adele Show for the rest of the year? (like TS 1989)

Edited October 21, 2015 by debbydeb

[ptxnewsandstuff]

• Did any of you attend the YouNow live stream/pep rally? I've seen tweets saying 1,000 albums were sold in 45 mins (1,500,000 equivalent streams). Hits Daily Double updated their estimates and still said Lovato's album was ahead overall but that Pentatonix was leading in pure sales. I think that HDD update came before or during the pep rally. If the YouNow album sales are factored in, does that mean PTX has jumped ahead, or at least closed the gap?

 

Wow. Haven't watched it yet, 1000 albums in 45 minutes?! That's helpful. If they need a bigger gap in pure sales. It's till to close to call but looks like Demi will edge ahead with streams. If they can go 10-15K more in sales it might be close. 

It will be hard to maintain the a 1-2 position, Carrie Underwood an 5sos are releasing next week. Big last quarter for music. Got to hand it to TSwift. No streams, sells over 1 million and has spent a year in the top 10.

[Kromm]

Their Today Show appearances

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw6PTYiznJQ

I see this copy got taken down by an NBC complaint (and that you reposted).  Wanna take bets on them not leaving that one alone either? Fingers crossed, I guess.

 

At least they only had to put up with Hoda and Drunky Lee for PART of that.  Although saddling them for part of that with another old lady who felt she had to do dancing finger points to them maybe was extra punishment.

 

 

They've also been really "on" with their live appearances lately. Certainly those small studio spaces favor their voices far more than the live arena settings.

 

BTW: What the deal with that seriously weird skirt Kirstie is wearing?

[Sharpie66]

"Another old lady"?!? That's Marlo Thomas!! Sorry, but That Girl is a freakin'awesome woman.

[debbydeb]

Sing sounds amazing without individual mics

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Ed0xD3tyQ

Got to hand it to TSwift. No streams, sells over 1 million and has spent a year in the top 10.

PTX did 1000 in 45 mins at the Younow thingy, Taylor Swift must've shifted A LOT! And all on traditional media. I just don't think there's anyone at her level right now.

Btw, in an offtopic way,

unsubstantiated rumor that artists are already pushing back their promo as far away from Adele as they can.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34570462/adeles-new-track-other-artists-pushed-material-back-to-avoid-clash

At this point, the only person who could legit race her is Taylor Swift. I wonder if this is why Adele didn't drop her album last year (when it was first rumored to). Adele wanted to avoid the fanwars with TS :)

Edited October 21, 2015 by debbydeb

[ptxnewsandstuff]

#1 on iTunes! Amazing. Doesn't guarantee #1 on Billboard though. Still too close to call, keep streaming. Hoping that their sales will make up the streams.

 

Hufffington Post Interview

Edited October 21, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[Kromm]

#1 on iTunes! Amazing. Doesn't guarantee #1 on Billboard though. Still too close to call, keep streaming. Hoping that their sales will make up the streams.

What's your source on that?

 

http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/albums/shows them at #2 as I type this (I know the chart is subject to change though--no idea how often they update however).

This is current as of the timestamp on this post:

 

[Kromm]

More data: they're currently #3 on the Google Play Music Album chart. Which kind of means very little however, since as far as I know very few people buy music that way (hint: #1 on the album chart there is Shakira's "She Wolf", a six year old album--so THOSE charts totally make no sense over all).

Commercial radio airplay charts, like Mediabase, show Can't Sleep Love at #43 by the way.  At least ifs Top 50, if not Top 40.

 

What else... iTunes UK Album chart has them currently at #11. Which isn't bad for that venue. iTunes Germany Album chart has them at #29 (not so bad when you consider that One Direction is #23, although stupid Bieber is #3). iTunes France Album chart, #32.  And one of the bigger one, iTunes Japan Album chart... #7 (one above Arianna Grande). iTunes Australia Album chart is (to me at least) unexpectedly high at #5, and the iTunes New Zealand Album chart has them at #4.  

 

If any of this is processed by their management team, I suppose the Pacific Rim can expect more touring in the future.

 

 

 

* - The chart I wasn't able to get to come up properly was South Korea. Every other country I tried uses the URL www.apple.com/XX/itunes/charts/ with XX filled in with a two letter country code. "KR", the code for them comes up to a valid overall site, but the usual iTunes chart not found. EDIT - Okay, didn't work for "PH" for Philippines either, so perhaps certain parts of Asia have their charts elsewhere (although Japan's is in the same location as the rest of the world).

Edited October 22, 2015 by Kromm

[ptxnewsandstuff]

What's your source on that?

 

http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/albums/shows them at #2 as I type this (I know the chart is subject to change though--no idea how often they update however).

This is current as of the timestamp on this post:

That was fast by the Bieber fans. PTX was there for a good couple of hours on iTunes. It's on their Facebook and Twitter pages. Not sure which way it's going to go but Pentaholics are trying to make up for the streams and both artists have discounted their respective albums on Amazon. If #1 is there for the taking, go for it. Think everyone's underestimated PTX. Some immature comments online, whatever happens, PTX has original album and hopefully the respect they deserve from others.

Here they are telling everyone to stream it and gushing about their iTunes position.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[debbydeb]

I love how Mr Grassi and Mr Hoying are rallying too. They're such fun Pentaparents it seems.

Can't believe it's almost the end of the week.

Edited October 22, 2015 by debbydeb

[ToxicUnicorn]

Streamed it all day at work.  Does the 1,500 stream - 1 album conversion mean that I have to listen to the entire album stream 1,500 times, or does each of the separate songs count?  Because I'm thinking it would save time just to go buy a few more copies.

[Kromm]

Streamed it all day at work.  Does the 1,500 stream - 1 album conversion mean that I have to listen to the entire album stream 1,500 times, or does each of the separate songs count?  Because I'm thinking it would save time just to go buy a few more copies.

I suppose it varies by the streaming service.

 

My guess is that it's either track by track, or there's some formula using unique IP addresses hitting a stream within a certain time period (which would tend to generate lower numbers though, so it's less likely since EVERY service wants to inflate/bloat numbers they can report as much as necessary).

[SrPab]

The streaming metric is called SEA, for Stream Equivalent Album. There is also something called TEA, for Track Equivalent Album. It is generally assumed that 1 album = 10 tracks.

 

If I understand this article correctly: 10 digital track paid downloads (e.g., 10 different people buying one song from the same album) =  1 TEA. Not sure if that could also mean 10 people buying one different song each from the same digital album would count as 1 TEA--but I think it would. Just like I think that 10 people buying the same song from the same digital album counts as 1 TEA.

 

In 2014, the average blended per-stream rate was adjusted such that 1,500 streams equaled 1 album unit or SEA (it was 2,000 streams in 2013). I think you can stream just your favorite song from Pentatonix 1,500 times, at low volume, to make it count as 1 SEA. It appears the 1,500 figure still applies for 2015.

 

ETA: If any of you bought a vinyl version of the album from Amazon and have listened to it, what do you think of the experience? If your record player adds pops, crackles and hisses, does it enhance or detract from what's playing?

Edited October 22, 2015 by SrPab

[Kromm]

I've heard it piecemeal, but finally Spotify streaming the album all at once gave me a much firmer opinion on it as a whole.

 

To me "Misbehavin" may be the strongest track on the album. But (and it makes it really interesting that she fronted so few songs) Kristie's lead "Water" might be even more radio friendly. Not only is her voice REALLY good on it, but it hits the right spot for what's on AA radio stations.

 

"Ref" sounds like it's aiming for that same AA radio territory. It might be able to hit too, because the sound is very contemporary. "Cracked" is in that area too.

 

"Sing", as I've said before, is also a very strong song. Perhaps not 100% spot on for radio, but anthemic nonetheless. 

 

I have to again bemoan "Can't Sleep Love" as the lead single. It's hardly a horrible song, and as I think we've heard, comes off really well done live, but IMO it's NOT that radio friendly, is too reliant on those Uhhhs and Yeaahs, and it fact to me also has that weird part of the song "The kind I dream about all day. The kind that keeps me up all night" that I think totally breaks the rhythm of the song.

 

Weirdly enough, I like "New Year's Day". I didn't expect to from the title. I think they've got a quiet sneaky piece of marketable material here. It won't be a single, but I could see it appropriated by one of the New Year's TV shows for annual play. Free annual money in royalties if that happens!

 

"Light In the Hallway" sounds far too much like a classic Disney movie song to me. Sorry Avi. It's sweet, and would make a GOOD Disney song, don't mistake me, but it's kind of confusing from a marketing perspective. 

 

"First Things First" is I suppose innovative in that those sounds are probably pretty challenging to do a capella. But the song ITSELF is terribly generic. "Take Me Home" is kind of generic too, at least in the lyrics and arrangement, but I imagine it would make a good concert song.

 

"Rose Gold" is a nice song, but I can't imagine it on radio. Not that such is the only way to rate a song... I'm just sayin'.

 

I can't say I totally understand that "Na Na Na" song and it's place on the album. It's not actively bad, but it's not terribly good either.

 

The Jason Derulo song, "If I Ever Fall In Love", is okay, but IMO it's not really a super-strong song. It's a lot of vocal flash, singing-wise but not really a well written song under that. It's worth noting it's the one song on the album that nobody in PTX had any writing part in. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Kromm

[ptxnewsandstuff]

^Woah. Exactly like my thoughts. Really like Rose Gold and its lyrics. Has a Lorde-esque vibe to it.

 

ETA: If any of you bought a vinyl version of the album from Amazon and have listened to it, what do you think of the experience? If your record player adds pops, crackles and hisses, does it enhance or detract from what's playing?

Ordered it but it's scheduled to be released late November.

* - The chart I wasn't able to get to come up properly was South Korea. Every other country I tried uses the URL www.apple.com/XX/itunes/charts/ with XX filled in with a two letter country code. "KR", the code for them comes up to a valid overall site, but the usual iTunes chart not found. EDIT - Okay, didn't work for "PH" for Philippines either, so perhaps certain parts of Asia have their charts elsewhere (although Japan's is in the same location as the rest of the world).

Check out "kworb." Very reliable source that some media outlets use. Worldwide iTunes chart is updated every 15 minutes. Cool site to play around with - http://kworb.net/itunes/artist/pentatonix.html

 

Can also check out the radio charts - http://kworb.net/radio/

[Kromm]

Check out "kworb." Very reliable source that some media outlets use. Worldwide iTunes chart is updated every 15 minutes. Cool site to play around with - http://kworb.net/itunes/artist/pentatonix.html

 

Can also check out the radio charts - http://kworb.net/radio/

Philippines is on that, but oddly enough South Korea still isn't.

 

There's no way PTX wouldn't chart in Korea, so there's some other reason it's not included.

Maybe K-Pop being it's own genre of music now screws up ALL their charts!

[debbydeb]

Philippines is on that, but oddly enough South Korea still isn't.

 

There's no way PTX wouldn't chart in Korea, so there's some other reason it's not included.

Maybe K-Pop being it's own genre of music now screws up ALL their charts!

 

They couldn't even if they want to. 

Apparently, there's no iTunes store in South Korea.

(I learned something new today!)

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204411

 

 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6812932?start=0&tstart=0

There isn't currently any music, films or TV programmes available in the South Korean store

Edited October 22, 2015 by debbydeb

[Kromm]

Good lord, even Ukraine and Uganda have iTunes.  But not South Korea!  Even CHINA sort of has it (books only--so... the one nobody really cares about). 

 

Okay, Pakistan doesn't have it either, but I can't say I'm surprised by that. 

[debbydeb]

Slow day at the office, so I have been catching up on the interviews. So Many Of Them!

Interestin to know from one of the interviews

(Can't remember which one, but Yahoo? maybe?)

that the sea of iphone lights during Standing By originated in a Japan show? In the beginning I thought that PTX came up with the idea, but apparently it's the Japanese audience initiative?

I imagine that it would be a very touching surprise to see it for the first time. Especially their Japanese shows were usually at the end of the year, when they're tired and missing everybody.

No wonder they decided to adopt it and do it for every show afterwards. Such a moving gesture.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Ah, thanks for the answers above about streaming, everyone.  I've got my CD in the car, where I bob my head like a fool, and then I'm streaming the rest of the time at my various electronic devices.  Although I think this race for the #1 is potentially less buzz worthy than consistently coming up #2.  There is something about the story of being the underdog that I think would probably add to their appeal.   

 

Kromm, I enjoyed your track by track analysis and I'm glad you opened the conversation because I've been working on what I would say.

 

The Jason Derulo song, "If I Ever Fall In Love", is okay, but IMO it's not really a super-strong song. It's a lot of vocal flash, singing-wise but not really a well written song under that. It's worth noting it's the one song on the album that nobody in PTX had any writing part in.

I had decided this was the song I enjoyed listening to the least.  I don't like the vocal pyrotechnics here, and I find the lyrics stupid and repetitive, to be honest.  Interesting to find out nobody in PTX wrote it.

 

The other thing that bothers me is the occasional extra choral backup.  For some reason, I don't mind at all that they occasionally feature a single voice (my favorite by far is Tori Kelly on Winter Wonderland/Don't Worry).  However, adding multiple voices seems a little bit of a cheat to me, even if it is still a cappella, and it really changes their sound, which I love so much.  (I also did not much like the collaboration with Lindsey Stirling on Radioactive, but that was sufficiently in left field that I could roll with it.)

[Geeze]

Interestin to know from one of the interviews

(Can't remember which one, but Yahoo? maybe?)

that the sea of iphone lights during Standing By originated in a Japan show? In the beginning I thought that PTX came up with the idea, but apparently it's the Japanese audience initiative?

and I guarantee you when that hit Avi during Standing By he was a hot, sobbing mess afterward.

 

And now for something completely different, I was You Tube crawling through Penta-stuff I've heard a million times already when it hit me during Starships that when the group was told that ASNA shut down (the agency that was to shoot them into space), they built their own little (cobbled together out of spare parts, hard work, blood, sweat, tears and heart) starship and when they debuted it to a ridiculing, derisive public, they looked at each other, set their pearly white teeth (due to that Crest whatever), took their belief in themselves and their little bits if courage and launched the PTX  (the name is on the ship with a black magic marker or tape) with a cd? and the thing hit warp speed immediately.  Now everyone is oohing and aahing and not a naysayer in the bunch. And you have Mitch singing that satarships were MEANT to fly. 

Now, if that is not a metaphor for the trajectory of their journey and Pentatonix itself is not a metaphor for striving against all odds, then I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan (which if you knew me would be an utter impossibility).

Now, I'm a hot, sobbing mess.

 

My Pentababies............

[SrPab]

I hear ya, Geeze. I'm thankful that they talked themselves into making a full-bore go of it--or had someone like Ben Bram/Deke Sharon talk them into staying together and doing whatever it took to carve out a place for themselves. I haven't liked modern music this much since my teens.

 

By the by, I came across an FB status from someone who watched their Today show performance and complained that the show's sound guy either turned off Avi's mic or had turned it down too low for one of the songs. He then went on to say something about union rules perhaps currently prohibiting musical guests from bringing in their own engineer and/or mixing board and just plugging into the house system.

[debbydeb]

You know Youtube sometimes throws you a curveball, and leads you to a bizarre part of youtube, as though saying "hello, you've been here for a long time, are you sure you're not going to rejoin society anytime soon?"

So I was looking for cat videos to entertain my little nieces (the educational videos, like they were asking me why this cat is naked and that cat has so much hair what kinds of cats are there blah blah kids enough with the questions already), and Youtube decided to lead me to:

Cat-tastic Pentatonix Karaoke box in Japan.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iI-FLaVl1sk

Edited October 22, 2015 by debbydeb

[SrPab]

Good Heavens! That cat karaoke vid is just...SO JAPAN.

 

ToxicUnicorn, you commented earlier about their underdog status...I think they'll retain that status even if they top Billboard (read somewhere that final numbers go out on Sundays). There will be those who'll poo-poo the achievement with follow-up such as "It will only last a week", or "It's still f*cking a cappella--not real music".

 

If PTX is a perpetual also-ran, the jabs will be rephrased to things like "This proves that a cappella can only ever be second-best" or "If they're so good, how come they haven't achieved more?" In other words, there will be those who will never give PTX or any other a cappella group their due. This frustrates me.

 

I've seen online chatter from several in the a cappella community that PTX's album is "too mainstream". There wasn't much in the way of reasoned, erudite discussion. Lots of a cappellicans have said over the years that they want mainstream acceptance. PTX is on the cusp of that, so now another faction comes out and says things that make me think they don't want mainstream acceptance--or, they'll take it as long as PTX isn't leading the charge.

 

But that's fine. PTX will keep on keeping on. Whatever they achieve will occur despite any naysaying. After all, they've been hearing this kind of talk since their TSO days. You won't know what you can do unless you try. And I want to see them TRY.

Edited October 22, 2015 by SrPab

[SrPab]

S/O to whoever runs RCA's official Twitter account. Thank you for your support! And, "celebrity" endorsements keep rolling in for the group/album.

[ptxnewsandstuff]

This last minute media blitz by PTX is fun to watch.

[Kromm]

S/O to whoever runs RCA's official Twitter account. Thank you for your support! And, "celebrity" endorsements keep rolling in for the group/album.

On RCA's twitter? I see Kelly Clarkson (no surprise) and Jazmine Sullivan (a nice endorsement). Did I miss others? (they're not all necessarily retweeted by RCA, I'm sure.

 

Heh. Speaking of twitter, anyone else see these? (they're on the PTX twitter account)

 

[debbydeb]

This last minute media blitz by PTX is fun to watch.

 

Thank you for posting Kevin's interview with Troy McDonalds (okay my back-to-the-future gizmo is failing me on the link copy and paste department), 

 

What struck me the most is when Troy pointed out how Pentatonix doesn't shy away from baldly stating "Hey we want to go to no 1, and help us however way you can". I love the honesty about it. I think that's what Troy is trying to point out too? 

A lot of artists are thirsty for no. 1 too, but some of them play coy about it. "Aw shucking" and whatnot. But Pentatonix is real honest about it. And thank goodness for Kevin eloquently putting the "want to be no 1" in perspective too. Gotta hand it to him, that man can choose his words.

 

Also I love how they do a lot to actually rein in the fans without being combative. I think they know the fans are watching every media blitz they do, so that's why they repeat again and again "our fans are the nicest kindest people who respect other artist too" in a way it's a soft way of telling the fans to "not engage with fanwars and concentrate on the streaming and buying part of things". And I think it's working, too. 

 

I read on twitter that they have a Periscope of the last leg of the "No 1 Mission Not Impossible" at Santa Monica Place. 

 

I hope you will put it up on your channel too? 

 

You're a godsent! :) 

 

Can't believe the Week's over. 

 

Edit: I also especially love that they do the Media Blitz as a group and try as hard as they can not to perform if they're missing a member. :) 

Proves to EVERYONE that no one is less or more important in a group, but equally important and that they're can't be Pentatonix if they're not five of them singing.

 

However HOWEVER I do love the individual interviews. Kevin with the radio, Avi with Fuse. They give very good interviews. 

 

Oh now back to work. 

Edited October 23, 2015 by debbydeb

[Kromm]

Down to #3 on the US iTunes Album chart.

The good news is that iTunes decided to display them on the "Featured" page (at least today), so that rank could move up again.

 

[ToxicUnicorn]

SrPab and debbydeb, those are good reasons to want the no. 1 slot.  I hope they get it.  i just don't want them to be disappointed if they don't.  (As if my saying it would help them!  I guess I feel motherly toward them, too.)

 

I've seen online chatter from several in the a cappella community that PTX's album is "too mainstream".

 

I honestly don't understand why there would be anyone in the a cappella community who wouldn't support them.  The endorsements from other areas of life, however, are somewhat surprising and very heartwarming to see.  CareBears made me laugh, and the other pictures were very cute.  I appreciate seeing them here, Kromm, as I don't follow anyone on twitter.

[Geeze]

ToxicUnicorn, you commented earlier about their underdog status...I think they'll retain that status even if they top Billboard (read somewhere that final numbers go out on Sundays). There will be those who'll poo-poo the achievement with follow-up such as "It will only last a week", or "It's still f*cking a cappella--not real music".

 

But that's fine. PTX will keep on keeping on. Whatever they achieve will occur despite any naysaying. After all, they've been hearing this kind of talk since their TSO days. You won't know what you can do unless you try. And I want to see them TRY.

It is true that they will be seen as perpetual underdogs.  As a battle-scarred veteran of the Backstreet Wars, been there.  They've been together over 20 years and still are viewed as a flash in the pan boyband.  Substitute a cappella for boyband and voila.  Even if PTX sells out the universe and there are Martians bopping and jumping to Sing there will always be haters.  But as Avi said in that Livestream, "Haters, back off."

[Kromm]

I've seen online chatter from several in the a cappella community that PTX's album is "too mainstream". There wasn't much in the way of reasoned, erudite discussion. Lots of a cappellicans have said over the years that they want mainstream acceptance. PTX is on the cusp of that, so now another faction comes out and says things that make me think they don't want mainstream acceptance

That's likely about the size of it.

 

That said, #3 on their opening week and then (presumably) sinking lower after that week by week is hardly a smash success, even if briefly being #1 for a few hours was exciting. And PTX shooting themselves in the foot by putting what I am now convinced is one of the more mediocre tracks on the album as their debut single? Really, if people want to object to things there are FAR more intelligent and erudite things to object to than them being "too mainstream". Marketing/strategy ones rather than stupid ones implying they're somehow traitors for WANTING success.  There's no need to invent problems that don't exist when real ones do.  Similarly their real successes should be counted too. RCA managed to finagle a lot of good TV appearances for them. They got a better contract with RCA recently. Their social media presence continues to be great, even if commercial radio success is still arguably a pipe dream. The album creatively overall is pretty good, whatever I personally think of CSL as the lead single. Beating Bieber for even 5 minutes is nice.  Etc.  Heck, as I pointed out, I hope someone was paying attention to the good iTunes placement in the Pacific Rim (not just the Asian countries but also Australia and New Zealand), because I bet that means they could actually radio chart there at the very least.

 

The real bump they'd have gotten from a nice Meaghan Trainor or Ariana Grande collab (vs. a mediocre Jason Derulo one) is another sore spot.  Ah well. That could still happen for a future album, I suppose, even if it would have been better for THIS album. Or they could be guest stars on someone ELSE's album who's that big, and get the big radio play single that way.

 

I also suppose that their album could be good in the sense that it won't be filler the way full LPs are for some performers, where 2/3rds of what's on an album simply dissapears never to be seen or heard again. I imagine we'll eventually get videos for most of these songs over the next year, and they'll rotate most of them in concert (since there aren't really any BAD tracks, just one or two less successful ones at worst).

Edited October 23, 2015 by Kromm

[SrPab]

The last few posts represent the kind of discussion I like to have. As much of a fan as I am, I try to maintain a "clinical" detachment regarding certain aspects of PTX's career progression--not only in terms of the band, but also in terms for what it may or may not mean for (U.S.) a cappella in general.

 

I hope they and RCA have lots of takeaways from this latest brush with possible glory. Landing at #2 or #3 on the Billboard 200 chart would still mean this album is their highest-charting non-holiday effort. Getting #1 makes for a better talking point and more ad copy but my perspective is this: I have no problems creating art for art's sake. But, for most people, bills still have to get paid; taxes still have to get paid. Does this album really mean that original a cappella music is commercially viable? Can others, already inspired by PTX, now match aspiration with reality?

 

A finer point: short-term or long-term, will the market tolerate only PTX or is there room at the table for more a cappella acts in the mainstream? Way upthread, I posted about a CASA group forum discussion regarding women in a cappella. As I was lurking while people were chiming in I saw responses saying that there's no market for all-female a cappella (due to reasons thrown out like no low-end sound and, duh, sexism). Others pointed out that a possible success path involves having all group members living in close proximity to one another and being fully-invested in making a career at being an a cappella musician.

 

I'd like to think I'm not high on something to believe that there are a cappella groups out there, existing or yet-to-be, who may now have an easier time of it by taking cues from PTX. But, can Home Free bust down the door in Country music, or is where they're at now as big as they're going to get? Can Accent, a jazz a cappella group, go viral on YT like PTX? Can the Sons Of Pitches, from the U.K., win The Naked Choir tv contest and use that as a springboard to bigger things?

 

PTX has given a cappella groups a roadmap--but success isn't a guaranteed outcome for using (or not using) that roadmap. What it comes down to for me is that PTX, and by extension, a cappella, may have never gotten this kind of attention and press. In an alternate universe, PTX could have remained bit-player YT "stars". The general public could have despised a cappella so much that only once every hundred years could someone sneak in from the back door--before being promptly thrown out.

Edited October 23, 2015 by SrPab

[Kromm]

It's weird. Pentatonix isn't ANYWHERE on the Billboard charts, even the "Trending" chart. And a day early (it makes no sense) they now have the "Week ending Oct 31" BILLBOARD 200 chart up... with Selena Gomez on top but Pentatonix nowhere in the entire 200 places.

 

Something odd's going on there.  Hopefully that chart is being adjusted, because it makes zero sense now. Even were PTX nowhere near the top, logically if a new chart was generated somehow in anticipation of tomorrow, they'd be on it SOMEWHERE.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Kromm

[debbydeb]

What I continue to see, and it perplexed me a bit, the larger the group, the sooner the sound falls apart. I think we've seen it in the Sing Off with PTX and Home Free.

It's not just being small makes each member relateable, but

Being small the singing trio are forced to do three part harmonies behind the lead OFTEN. Whereas larger groups have ONE lead singer who doesn't get 3-part harmonies to help his sound. The rest of the group are just background music for lack of better words.

Now, if you are small and just one person shines, sooner or later the background people gets the limelight too. So that's not a problem. But when you have a huge choir, the non soloists usually just FADE into oblivion and they cannot help with marketing because their sale-weight is not as marketable as the soloist.

This is also something of a legacy system. Soloists in opera etc have top billing, the rest are lumped in as Choir.

But PTX and Home Free utilize their members voices with as many permutation as possible, letting them carve their own niche as soloist (in the TIME interview Kirstie said that Scott gets the solo if they want raw and soul vibe, Scott said Mitch gets solo if they want precise but aural and high and pitched but something that comes across as natural rather than technical, Avi gets the lullabies and the ballads, Kevin... gets the Cello solo. J/k)

I can't remember, was it Forte? who had Kirstie guest star in their music video. I kept waiting for a Three part harmony (or eleventy part harmony) behind her, but it never came. She is the Star Soloist and Forte her background choir for lack of better word.

Compare with when Tori Kelly guests in Don't Worry/Winter Wonderland. There's a bit of harmony behind her, also if there's dissonance (or whatever the tech word is), it is cohesive making her part of the group (think Boy/Girl band) rather than Holy Soloist.

Anyway, having a band formation instead of Soloist+NamelessChoirBehindMe, is useful because:

-each member has the same weight and marketability ceteris paribus (of course their overall weight goes up/down based on their side projects eg Superfruit vs....)

One of the things I heard about PTX marketability is because they are intersectional (race, education, background, gender and sexuality, etcetc). But guess what choirs are always intersectional, they are always diverse and united by voice. You want stories? They are bound to have personal stories! But we never hear them because they are in the dark due to the Soloist limelight. (eg Michael O and Dartmouth Aires)

-harmonies behind the lead is just more pleasing aurally. That's why solo singers have multitracks on their album and playbacks of their own voice on live shows.

I just think that PTX do put a lot of value in making harmonies whenever they can behind Scott/Mitch/Kirstie etc. even if it is half a note per several bars.

In that Troy McDonald interview Kevin was alluding to why YT is helpful for them as an acappella band, that must be heard AND seen:

- They want to see Avi do his crazy low bass

- They want to see "me" (ie Kevin) do my beatboxing

-They want to see the trio do their crazy tight harmonies.

(he could've said: they wAnt to see Kirstie do her whistle note/Scott riff/Mitch hit the high note (which some people do want to see, look at the enthusiasm behind Aha! live performance being included in Deluxe target).

Or it's probably just me? i love me some harmonies in my singing, that's why folk and country is my jam plus full choir.

one of my fav bands (which is now sadly no more) is called Girlyman. Their harmonies are Everything!

I hope I make sense.

Edited October 23, 2015 by debbydeb

[SrPab]

...

In that Troy McDonald interview Kevin was alluding to why YT is helpful for them as an acappella band, that must be heard AND seen:

- They want to see Avi do his crazy low bass

- They want to see "me" (ie Kevin) do my beatboxing

-They want to see the trio do their crazy tight harmonies.

 

...

I'm ruminating on the rest of it, but this...could this be part of the explanation with the album's "too mainstream" sound? The biggest, but not unwelcome, aural surprise for me was the liberal use of body percussion elements (snaps, claps, and stomps--filtered or not). If one is listening at home with eyes closed and headphones on, would these songs sound "thin" without these added elements (including choral background vocals)?

 

I'm convinced these tracks have these elements to make them more radio-friendly. But I also agree that PTX is walking (singing?) a fine line: On the one hand, music is meant to be heard. On the second hand, a cappella music, at least the way PTX crafts it, needs to be seen, too--otherwise your average person may think it's all instrumental backing tracks/autotune. On the third hand, I've seen interviews with PTX where they are flattered that some people think their songs are 100% autotuned--because they are creating and linking sounds to mimic that effect (but not actually using pitch correction liberally).

 

Also, there are people who don't understand that things like EQ and reverb are not the same as pitch correction. It is important to show people what Kevin's and Avi's mouths are doing, and how the trio balances leads versus harmonies and unisons.

Edited October 23, 2015 by SrPab

[Kromm]

I will now be your favorite poster again. Why?

 

Because I'm posting this!  It's ADORABLE!!!  And with even the older only having 2,500 hits, pretty much nobody has seen these yet (making "shame shame" motion to ptxnewsandstuff, who's supposed to magically catch everything they do!)

 

https://youtu.be/LBXaBWbKn2c

 

https://youtu.be/iMZetWaVQF8

 

 

IMO: Itsy Bitsy Spider is the killer performance of the bunch!

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kromm

[ptxnewsandstuff]

I will now be your favorite poster again. Why?

 

Because I'm posting this!  It's ADORABLE!!!  And with even the older only having 2,500 hits, pretty much nobody has seen these yet (making "shame shame" motion to ptxnewsandstuff, who's supposed to magically catch everything they do!)

Haha! Been hanging out on Twitter :)

 

Official numbers are out on Sunday but HDD reports that PTX SOLD more than Demi (82K vs 75K). So they're the Best Selling artists in the country right now. However, she pulled ahead with TEA and SPS numbers, 96K. Still don't know PTX's final numbers, wonder how close we were. Still think this system is flawed. You can't measure the streams of an album, you stream a song/single. She had a hit song which probably helped her. So on Billboard they're #2 when they technically sold more than her. (She only sold 75K, more people bought PTX, general public buys what they like to hear. Just saying.)

 

HDD also has an article on PTX. Always been supportive of these A Cappella nerds. "Pentatonix: Can't Sleep Rollout"

Cool look into release week and an interview with manager Jonathan and RCA president, Tom.

"Our ambition is to break what is essentially new ground by putting an a cappella song into the smash-hit category for the first time in decades." - RCA President/ COO Tom Corson

 

They have an awesome breakdown of PTX's previous releases.

Edited October 23, 2015 by ptxnewsandstuff

[SrPab]

Is Lovato's streaming lead all due to U.S.-based streaming? I saw tweets from a number of overseas Pentaholics and they were lamenting that their streams wouldn't count, but they were doing it anyway to support their faves.

 

Does the U.S. Billboard 200 album chart only tally numbers for U.S. sales activity? For example, would imports made by Singaporean Pentaholics count?

Edited October 23, 2015 by SrPab

[SrPab]

Also, if the numbers are really close, how does Billboard deal with margin of error? I remember reading somewhere (HDD?) that streaming numbers have a margin of error. Has Billboard ever declared a tie?

[ToxicUnicorn]

If it's ok to leapfrog back and forth between subjects, I wanted to go from numbers back to this earlier point:

 

Does this album really mean that original a cappella music is commercially viable?

I think the answer is going to be yes, but not necessarily because the music is a cappella.  The thing that I find so tantalizing about PTX's popularity is that people are responding to genuine singing, and with heart.  I have been so disinterested with a lot of music in the past 10 years because it's all seemed so soulless, and that's not even bringing up the issue of auto-tune.  For example, that Unconditionally song rubs my nerves raw every time it is on, because of the exceedingly weird emphasis on the wrong syllable.  I had the same reaction to Wrecking Ball which had the craziest choppy lyrics I have ever heard.  Those weren't really songs, in my opinion, in the sense of having any pleasing flow.  (And, by the way, I consider that a lot of rap can have pleasing flow without any real notes, but there it's the content that I mostly object to.)

 

Also, I feel like a lot of pop music has not had harmony, for a very long time.  

 

PTX consistently avoids those mistakes - their phrasing is good, their flow is good, they choose songs without objectionable messages (in fact, many of their songs are arguably feel-good), and that's all in addition to their incredible non-auto-tuned, genuine singing, and their incredible blend and harmony.   I think it's wonderful if any group, a cappella or not, can bring back those qualities of music to pop music.  I also think those are parts of music which have always been emphasized in a cappella, so a cappella groups have the skill set.  Then it comes down to song choices, which I'm still mulling over.