New Documentary Category

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi everyone, 

as there have been a lot of documentary requests, Primetimer created a new Nonfiction and Documentaries category here: https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/8795-nonfiction-and-documentaries/

All nonfiction and documentary forums will be moved and/or converted into topics over time.

Please request only parent forums (eg, <insert channel or streming service> documentaries). Otherwise, feel free to start topics for documentaries in the respective forum yourself. 

Thank you, 

CrispMtAir

 

[DanaK]

That is definitely an interesting and welcome step and probably a big easing of the mods’ workload. I think the only real issue I have at the moment is that you can only “follow” the categories and not individual shows, but then, I’ve been doing that for awhile with the HBO documentaries category

[DanaK]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:44 AM, CM-BlueButterfly said:

Hi everyone, 

as there have been a lot of documentary requests, Primetimer created a new Nonfiction and Documentaries category here: https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/8795-nonfiction-and-documentaries/

All nonfiction and documentary forums will be moved and/or converted into topics over time.

Please request only parent forums (eg, <insert channel or streming service> documentaries). Otherwise, feel free to start topics for documentaries in the respective forum yourself. 

Thank you, 

CrispMtAir

A question: What do you define as Nonfiction, apart from documentaries? Would that be anything defined as a docuseries, including reality shows or is it simply another word you are using for documentary, whether one episode or multiple?

[CM-BlueButterfly]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

A question: What do you define as Nonfiction, apart from documentaries? Would that be anything defined as a docuseries, including reality shows or is it simply another word you are using for documentary, whether one episode or multiple?

While reality shows are nonfiction, they're a huge category, so they should keep their own category. 

The nonfiction category would include any kind of docu series and things like "Dateline", for example. 

Hope that helps. 

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

While reality shows are nonfiction, they're a huge category, so they should keep their own category. 

The nonfiction category would include any kind of docu series and things like "Dateline", for example. 

Hope that helps. 

That helps, thanks

Another question is where a certain show might fit. It’s possible that someone will want a subforum for PBS’ “Great Performances” series. It’s about showing various performing arts, like plays or concerts, but some episodes are essentially documentaries. That seems like a hybrid show but would it make sense to put it under the Nonfiction and Documentary subforum or somewhere else?

Info on the series https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/about/

[CM-BlueButterfly]

I'll look into it and get back to you. 

[Bastet]

As someone who watches a lot of documentaries, I welcome this change -- it will be nice not to have every single one on my home page, just Netflix documentaries, Prime documentaries, etc.

There's no forum for Showtime documentaries.  Should there be, or should threads for those documentaries be created in the Paramount+ forum since P+ now serves as the streaming service for Showtime content following discontinuation of the Showtime streaming service (for those with the ad-free version of P+, now called Paramount+ with Showtime; there's a cheaper, ad-supported version called Paramount+ Essential that does not include access to Showtime content)?  If the latter, maybe that forum should be re-titled to include Showtime.

Also, do you want anyone flagging for your attention forums that need to be moved into these new ones -- while I figure that will just slowly take place behind the scenes, especially forums for documentaries that have already aired, I wonder if for documentaries that haven't aired yet but already have forums you'd like to get them converted to threads in the appropriate new forum before they're released (and discussion starts)?

Edited June 4 by Bastet

[CM-BlueButterfly]

5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

There's no forum for Showtime documentaries.  Should there be, or should threads for those documentaries be created in the Paramount+ forum since P+ now serves as the streaming service for Showtime content following discontinuation of the Showtime streaming service (for those with the ad-free version of P+; the limited ad version of P+ does not include access to Showtime content)?  If the latter, maybe that forum should be re-titled to include Showtime.

Are there a lot of Showtime documentaries so that a separate forum makes sense? 

When they're aired on Showtime, do they also air on Paramount and vice-versa?

 

5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Also, do you want anyone flagging for your attention forums that need to be moved into these new ones -- while I figure that will just slowly take place behind the scenes, especially forums for documentaries that have already aired, I wonder if for documentaries that haven't aired yet but already have forums you'd like to get them converted to threads in the appropriate new forum before they're released (and discussion starts)?

Flagging would be helpful, thank you. 

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

Are there a lot of Showtime documentaries so that a separate forum makes sense? 

When they're aired on Showtime, do they also air on Paramount and vice-versa?

I don't have Showtime, only Paramount+ that, as of May, now includes a bunch of Showtime documentaries I am working my way through.  So there are a lot of old Showtime documentaries.  But how many new documentaries Showtime typically produces each year (speaking to how many threads might be created going forward), or how often after airing on Showtime they are available on P+, I don't know, since I only see the P+ side of things When something airs on CBS, it can be watched live via P+ and is then available for any-time streaming starting the next day; I cannot tell for sure from a brief search whether that is true of things that air on Showtime as well -- it sounds like it is, but I am not certain. 

4 minutes ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

Flagging would be helpful, thank you. 

Okay, as I have time this week, I'll flag the ones I have on my home page, starting with the ones for documentaries that haven't yet been aired/released.  Do you want me to do it by reporting them (if so, use the "admin-back end" reason?), or posting with a link to them (if so, here, or create a dedicated thread in the Tech Issues forum?).

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't have Showtime, only Paramount+ that, as of May, now includes a bunch of Showtime documentaries I am working my way through.  So there are a lot of old Showtime documentaries.  But how many new documentaries Showtime typically produces each year (speaking to how many threads might be created going forward), or how often after airing on Showtime they are available on P+, I don't know, since I only see the P+ side of things When something airs on CBS, it can be watched live via P+ and is then available for any-time streaming starting the next day; I cannot tell for sure from a brief search whether that is true of things that air on Showtime as well -- it sounds like it is, but I am not certain. 

Okay, as I have time this week, I'll flag the ones I have on my home page, starting with the ones for documentaries that haven't yet been aired/released.  Do you want me to do it by reporting them (if so, use the "admin-back end" reason?), or posting with a link to them (if so, here, or create a dedicated thread in the Tech Issues forum?).

Showtime did have a separate streaming service for awhile. The Paramount+ streaming service has absorbed the Showtime streaming service so that all Showtime programming, including docs, is now absorbed into Paramount+, though still labeled a Showtime program as I believe there’s still a linear Showtime channel. Paramount+ renamed itself Paramount+ with Showtime so the Paramount+ subcategory could be renamed Paramount+/Showtime and contain the various Paramount+ and Showtime nonfiction and documentary subforums. There are some old Showtime docs that aren’t available to stream any more but they did exist at one point so I think it will still work to put them under the subcategory if they exist on the board

Edited June 4 by DanaK

[SoMuchTV]

A question - will the individual documentaries show up in the "show index" or whatever it's called - the link near the bottom of the home page?  Because with the state of the search function (that's a known issue, right?) it sounds like it could be difficult to find something if you didn't remember what service it streamed on (and possibly what corporate family the streamer fell under).

[DanaK]

5 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

A question - will the individual documentaries show up in the "show index" or whatever it's called - the link near the bottom of the home page?  Because with the state of the search function (that's a known issue, right?) it sounds like it could be difficult to find something if you didn't remember what service it streamed on (and possibly what corporate family the streamer fell under).

Yeah, that’s certainly going to be a (double) problem. Perhaps no more docs should be moved until or unless there’s a solution to this?

Edited June 5 by DanaK

[DanaK]

Something I just noticed is that if you go to the Nonfiction and Documentaries parent category, there is a search box there and it does allow to search a title and find it no matter where it is in the various subcategories below. So maybe that’s not a big issue

[DanaK]

Another followup: It seems that the search box in the Documentaries parent category can’t find any of the Disney Entertainment docs at that level. It appears you have to go one level down into the Disney Entertainment subcategory and use the search box there to find a doc in the various subcategories. So it may be of limited value to create levels of subcategories as it seems to make it more difficult for the user to find any particular doc

[DanaK]

On 6/3/2024 at 8:12 PM, Bastet said:

I don't have Showtime, only Paramount+ that, as of May, now includes a bunch of Showtime documentaries I am working my way through.  So there are a lot of old Showtime documentaries.  But how many new documentaries Showtime typically produces each year (speaking to how many threads might be created going forward), or how often after airing on Showtime they are available on P+, I don't know, since I only see the P+ side of things When something airs on CBS, it can be watched live via P+ and is then available for any-time streaming starting the next day; I cannot tell for sure from a brief search whether that is true of things that air on Showtime as well -- it sounds like it is, but I am not certain. 

Okay, as I have time this week, I'll flag the ones I have on my home page, starting with the ones for documentaries that haven't yet been aired/released.  Do you want me to do it by reporting them (if so, use the "admin-back end" reason?), or posting with a link to them (if so, here, or create a dedicated thread in the Tech Issues forum?).

I’ve been flagging some on my home page by going to the first one and reporting the thread using Admin-Moderator. I started out by doing them one at a time then started bunching up a few at a time by reporting from the first one on the list. So there could have been some duplicates between us. If you want to team up, we can each take a section of the alphabet, assuming that’s ok with the mods. And we can create requests here for any new categories that are needed

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Thanks @DanaK for the replies and thank you for flagging the shows. 

I'll index the topics which will make them search-able forum wide. 

I'll double check about the search function.

On 6/3/2024 at 8:12 PM, Bastet said:

Okay, as I have time this week, I'll flag the ones I have on my home page, starting with the ones for documentaries that haven't yet been aired/released.  Do you want me to do it by reporting them (if so, use the "admin-back end" reason?), or posting with a link to them (if so, here, or create a dedicated thread in the Tech Issues forum?).

Please do what's more convenient for you. 

Thank you very much. It's much appreciated. 

[DanaK]

46 minutes ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

I'll index the topics which will make them search-able forum wide. 

Yeah, that’s working pretty nicely with a few titles I searched for

ETA: And I just noticed that the indexing will allow me to pin the subforums to my follow page like before. That gives users choice in how they want to follow things

Edited June 6 by DanaK

[DanaK]

Just to note for those requesting moves of documentaries to the new Nonfiction and Documentaries category in case people aren't aware, there are 3 categories that one-off docs and doc series were put under in the past, at least that I've seen so far: "Talk & News", "Specials & Other One-Off Shows" and "Limited & Event Series"

[DanaK]

I was thinking more about the Paramount+/Showtime subcategory discussion. Given we are talking about original documentaries past and present for any particular service or network and not necessarily where they can be streamed or accessed at this point, perhaps it would make better sense to keep the two services as separate subcategories, especially since any Showtime original documentaries are still branded as such on the Paramount+ streaming service and some older Showtime docs aren't available on P+ and some are probably found elsewhere. Currently, there are only a couple of docs under the current subcategory and both are Paramount+ docs so it would be easy to do it now rather than later

It might also be a good idea to create a Paramount Global (or maybe Paramount Media or Paramount Entertainment or something) Documentaries parent subcategory and put the Paramount+ and Showtime subcategories under it, plus any other Paramount-owned channels and services that have documentaries and need a place to sit when we come across them; I know there are some MTV documentaries that have been created on here. Of course, that could all get blown apart if parts of Paramount Global get sold or shelved in the pending merger with Skydance, but then the above might make it easier to maybe move a subcategory around if necessary

[Bastet]

21 hours ago, DanaK said:

I’ve been flagging some on my home page by going to the first one and reporting the thread using Admin-Moderator. I started out by doing them one at a time then started bunching up a few at a time by reporting from the first one on the list. So there could have been some duplicates between us. If you want to team up, we can each take a section of the alphabet, assuming that’s ok with the mods.

If you've been doing them alphabetically, I'll start at the bottom of my home page.  If you've been skipping around, though, I think we can both (and anyone else who wants to help) flag whenever we have a chance, and if there are duplicates it seems the admins can easily see that and mark the second report closed.

 

[DanaK]

22 minutes ago, Bastet said:

If you've been doing them alphabetically, I'll start at the bottom of my home page.  If you've been skipping around, though, I think we can both (and anyone else who wants to help) flag whenever we have a chance, and if there are duplicates it seems the admins can easily see that and mark the second report closed.

 

I’m actually done reporting the docs on my home page. I was thinking of starting on one of the sections where some docs reside, like “Talk & News” and doing a couple of letters of the alphabet in sequence at a time. We may need to discuss details in a PM as a short perusal of various docs shows some issues, like some don’t identify the source, some aren’t clear on whether they are docs or reality shows, etc (plus coordinate on which ones to do). A quick solution would be not to move problematic ones for now and resolve them later

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, DanaK said:

Just to note for those requesting moves of documentaries to the new Nonfiction and Documentaries category in case people aren't aware, there are 3 categories that one-off docs and doc series were put under in the past, at least that I've seen so far: "Talk & News", "Specials & Other One-Off Shows" and "Limited & Event Series"

I did A-E on my home page - and that's enough for today! - and overwhelmingly those were the three sections, but one of them was in Candid Reality.

[DanaK]

27 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I did A-E on my home page - and that's enough for today! - and overwhelmingly those were the three sections, but one of them was in Candid Reality.

Yeah, definitely spread out. At least this project will put all the docs under one category

[DanaK]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

I did A-E on my home page - and that's enough for today! - and overwhelmingly those were the three sections, but one of them was in Candid Reality.

Some things I’d forgotten are things like newsmagazine shows like Dateline, which is now under NBC docs, and doc series like Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy, the latter of which had been residing in Lifestyle and is now under CNN docs. So I guess we’ll have to check all the categories. I guess this will be a Summer project, if not longer. We should probably pace ourselves lol

[SoMuchTV]

A question for @CM-BlueButterfly or other mods...

It looks like as old docs are getting reorganized, they're showing up as "new shows".  I noticed one I had been following (just getting notifications if someone commented), it no longer showed me as following.  If I follow it now, it ends up on my home page.

So my question is, is there a way to follow documentaries with notifications only, without every single one of them ending up on my home page?

Actually I'm not sure it's happening for every doc.  This one shows up on my home page when I follow it:

and this one does not:

Both of them have the same "follow" settings - the first option.

 

[DanaK]

@CM-BlueButterfly There are what look to be several nonfiction and docs programs in the Lifestyle Reality category and some have already been moved to the new Nonfiction and Documentaries category. What would you say is the difference between the two categories in terms of trying to decide if something belongs in the new category?

[CM-BlueButterfly]

@SoMuchTV I'll investigate and get back to you. 

@DanaK That's a difficult question to answer. I kind of know what the difference is but it's hard to put into words. Maybe the intent would be a good factor to go by? So, for example, the primary intent of a show like House Hunters seems to be to be entertain and not to document. It's a reality show and it documents a house search but it also follows a bit of the fiction formula (it has conflict, it misdirects and creates a bit of a mystery that isn't resolved until the very end when it's revealed which house the couple chose).

Whereas a show like Searching For Italy doesn't have any of that. Its primary intent seems to be to inform and document, and there's no fiction forumla added to it. What you see is what you get, basically. 

I hope that helps. 

And yes, please, pace yourself. The shows don't have to be moved by the end of the month or so, although, I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate your help! ( @Bastet as well). 

 

 

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

And yes, please, pace yourself. The shows don't have to be moved by the end of the month or so, although, I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate your help! ( @Bastet as well). 

Would it be better to say here instead of in a PM what section and part of the alphabet we plan to work on so all the mods and any other volunteers can see and try not to duplicate? I’m sure issues will come up but we can post a few of those at a time for mods and others to help with. Whatever the best approach. And know that I tend to ask a lot of questions, especially what-ifs, so hopefully I don’t annoy anyone with this project

I can start in Talk & News doing A-C and the numbers and digits before A in the list

[CM-BlueButterfly]

@SoMuchTV I tested a number of things and every time, the indexed topic that I followed ended up on my homepage. 

The difference between the two shows that you mentioned is that Quiet Please used to be a topic in a forum and was moved to a different forum whereas the HBO category got a new parent category while none of the topics were moved. 
However, I tested that out as well with the same result. The show that I followed showed up on my homepage. While it sounds like you're welcoming that it doesn't show up on your homepage, it actually should show up. 

I'll look into it further and let you know if I find out anything else. 

 

[SoMuchTV]

6 hours ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

While it sounds like you're welcoming that it doesn't show up on your homepage, it actually should show up. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like the option to just get notifications if someone comments, without every single-episode documentary I'm interested in showing up on my homepage.  There's enough there already!  Sounds like I need to take this to the "suggestions" area.

[DanaK]

On 6/7/2024 at 10:28 PM, DanaK said:

Would it be better to say here instead of in a PM what section and part of the alphabet we plan to work on so all the mods and any other volunteers can see and try not to duplicate? I’m sure issues will come up but we can post a few of those at a time for mods and others to help with. Whatever the best approach. And know that I tend to ask a lot of questions, especially what-ifs, so hopefully I don’t annoy anyone with this project

I can start in Talk & News doing A-C and the numbers and digits before A in the list

Unless somebody stops me, I’m going to work up to and including M in Talk & News and someone else can take the second half of the alphabet in that category

[DanaK]

21 hours ago, DanaK said:

Unless somebody stops me, I’m going to work up to and including M in Talk & News and someone else can take the second half of the alphabet in that category

Eh, it’s not that long, I’ll just keep going to the end with Z unless told otherwise

[CM-BlueButterfly]

On 6/7/2024 at 10:28 PM, DanaK said:

Would it be better to say here instead of in a PM what section and part of the alphabet we plan to work on so all the mods and any other volunteers can see and try not to duplicate? I’m sure issues will come up but we can post a few of those at a time for mods and others to help with. Whatever the best approach. And know that I tend to ask a lot of questions, especially what-ifs, so hopefully I don’t annoy anyone with this project

I can start in Talk & News doing A-C and the numbers and digits before A in the list

I can be like that myself and I appreciate that you ask when you're unsure of something. 

And thank you!

[DanaK]

Note to the mods: The CBS subcategory doesn't seem accessible at the moment. I would assume the mods creating it are either in the middle of putting stuff in there or forget to set the permissions. If I look at shows added and see 48 Hours, which apparently was moved under the CBS subcategory, I can access that by clicking on it from the Recently Added Shows section but I can't get to the CBS parent subcategory that's holding it

[CM-BlueButterfly]

The permissions needed to be adjusted. Should be good now. 

[DanaK]

Question for mods: I'm seeing Starz in the recently add TV shows section, but clicking on it takes me to the Other section of the Docs category. Does the subcategory actually exist or was it added and then discarded?

[CM-BlueButterfly]

It was added and then became "other". That's probably why it takes you there.

So far, there don't seem to be a whole lot of documentaries for the channels/streaming services I've put in "other". If there's an increase, I'll create a forum. 

Should I rename the titles to reflect where the documentaries aired? 

[DanaK]

5 minutes ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

It was added and then became "other". That's probably why it takes you there.

So far, there don't seem to be a whole lot of documentaries for the channels/streaming services I've put in "other". If there's an increase, I'll create a forum. 

Should I rename the titles to reflect where the documentaries aired? 

Ah, I see.

I was already thinking it would help to rename some titles to indicate source for those forums where that isn't clear, so at least with Other, that probably would help

[DanaK]

Also, how long does it take for the index function to make a show title in the docs area available for searching? If it’s short, the topics in the Other section aren’t showing up. Maybe it wasn’t indexed?

[DanaK]

@CM-BlueButterfly I'm finished with going through the Talk & News Category. If no one else has taken Limited & Event Series, I'll work on that next

[DanaK]

@CM-BlueButterfly Sorry to bother you but it appears the Other subcategory has not been indexed as I can’t search for any of the docs under it on the main page

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

@CM-BlueButterfly Sorry to bother you but it appears the Other subcategory has not been indexed as I can’t search for any of the docs under it on the main page

Also seemingly not indexed: the CNBC subcategory under NBC Universal

Also, how long does it take to index a show that's been moved or created? There's been some moved or created in the last couple of weeks or so that I can't search for on the main page yet (like Omnivore under Apple+ or In the Arena: Serena Williams under ESPN/ESPN+) while others recently created or moved are available pretty quickly

 

[Bastet]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:06 AM, DanaK said:

I'm finished with going through the Talk & News Category. If no one else has taken Limited & Event Series, I'll work on that next

Tip of my hat to you for all the work you're doing!  I only did the documentaries on my home page, working on it when I had some free time, and just finished that last week.  That's it for me, so have at it. 

[CM-BlueButterfly]

17 hours ago, DanaK said:

@CM-BlueButterfly Sorry to bother you but it appears the Other subcategory has not been indexed as I can’t search for any of the docs under it on the main page

Not at all, it's what I'm here for. 

It was indexed. I de-indexed and re-indexed but I can't search for it either. It's possible that the letter combination o-t-h-e-r yields too many results. 

The CNBC category was indexed as well, but I de - and re-indexed it, too, and it does show up for me. Please try again.

Indexing itself can happen immediately and yields immediate results. However, as all indexed shows show up under "recently added" I'll have to do it gradually in order not to spam the category with newly indexed topics. My apologies. 

Thank you very much for your continued help!

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

Not at all, it's what I'm here for. 

It was indexed. I de-indexed and re-indexed but I can't search for it either. It's possible that the letter combination o-t-h-e-r yields too many results. 

The CNBC category was indexed as well, but I de - and re-indexed it, too, and it does show up for me. Please try again.

Indexing itself can happen immediately and yields immediate results. However, as all indexed shows show up under "recently added" I'll have to do it gradually in order not to spam the category with newly indexed topics. My apologies. 

Thank you very much for your continued help!

I can now search under CNBC so that does works. Thanks

Would Miscellaneous or something similar work better than Other for a subcategory title to help with the indexing?

Another question, has a decision been made on how to handle Max docs, in terms of whether to keep them with HBO or have them in their own category? If necessary, I can go through the HBO category and identify the Max docs to move to a Max category if the decision is made to keep the docs separate

[DanaK]

7 hours ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

Not at all, it's what I'm here for. 

It was indexed. I de-indexed and re-indexed but I can't search for it either. It's possible that the letter combination o-t-h-e-r yields too many results. 

The CNBC category was indexed as well, but I de - and re-indexed it, too, and it does show up for me. Please try again.

Indexing itself can happen immediately and yields immediate results. However, as all indexed shows show up under "recently added" I'll have to do it gradually in order not to spam the category with newly indexed topics. My apologies. 

Thank you very much for your continued help!

FYI, I’m seeing Other now on my home page if I follow it but I still can’t search for the programs under it

[DanaK]

@CM-BlueButterflyI'm done with the Limited & Event Series Category. I'm taking a little break before starting on another category but will continue to send the mods the info on what subforums should be moved into what subcategories for the 2 categories I've worked on

[CM-BlueButterfly]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:28 AM, DanaK said:

Would Miscellaneous or something similar work better than Other for a subcategory title to help with the indexing?

It would definitely help with the search issue. 

Just as an FYI, as the category is for nonfiction, docu series and documentaries, I've created docuseries and documentary tags.

[DanaK]

11 hours ago, CM-BlueButterfly said:

It would definitely help with the search issue. 

Just as an FYI, as the category is for nonfiction, docu series and documentaries, I've created docuseries and documentary tags.

How are things like that used?

[CM-BlueButterfly]

I explained how to add tags here: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/148322-how-to-add-tags/

When you click on a tag, it can also serve as a search term.