Buffy is what happens when a good unique show gets popular

[MapleCourt]

Season 1 of Buffy is the best because it called attention to real issues that young Americans face - immense pressure from their peers and adults to live up to exceedingly high expectations. Episodes like The Witch, Nightmares and Out of Sight capture this perfectly. We got lovable, sincere characters who defied stereotypes of what is cool and popular and got to watch them bond as they struggled to make their way through this nightmarish world.

Then the show got popular and the writers had to cave to what superficial audiences wanted. Cool rockstars like Oz. Melodramatic love stories (ok, I admit, I enjoyed the love stories in Season 2 except for Willow and Oz but they weren't even in love yet). Then in Season 3 they completely sold out to what superficial American audiences wanted - psychopathically carefree Faith and the Mayor - Goodfellas and Seinfeld meet Buffy. In Season 4 they actually seemed to think the macho-military douchebags in the Initiative would be popular but thankfully audiences had enough sense to draw the line there. In Season 5 I have to give Joss credit for doing something unpopular and giving Buffy an annoying little sister, who I don't mind. Dawn is a lot less annoying than Oz, Anya and Riley.

But the real turning point was Season 3. It's a completely different show in Season 3 than the first two seasons. Alyson Hannigan is playing a completely different character. Giles and Xander are practically nonexistent except for a few obvious tropes. The ending of Season 2 is ruined by bringing back Angel after just 3 episodes.

I guess it's impossible to expect a show like Buffy Season 1 to last in the for-profit television market, which makes that season all the more special and enjoyable.

Edited November 15, 2023 by MapleCourt

[MapleCourt]

The party scene in the second episode of season 3 is actually a good metaphor for that season. Whenever I watch season 3, I feel like Buffy at that party, wandering around wondering what happened to the friends and home she used to enjoy.

[lembergwatcher]

18 hours ago, MapleCourt said:

Giles and Xander are practically nonexistent except for a few obvious tropes. The ending of Season 2 is ruined by bringing back Angel after just 3 episodes.

After Giles practically spat on Jenny's grave by going along with callous "let's save Buffy's boyfriend Angel" plan in 2x21 I wouldn't mind seeing him deported back to England for good. Marginalizing Xander was a bone thrown to numerous Buffy/Angel 'shippers because of the "Lie" in the previous season's finale, but that's just my opinion. Besides, Bangel fans would've lost it if Joss delayed Buffy and Angel reunion for a couple more episodes.

18 hours ago, MapleCourt said:

The party scene in the second episode of season 3 is actually a good metaphor for that season. Whenever I watch season 3, I feel like Buffy at that party, wandering around wondering what happened to the friends and home she used to enjoy.

Buffy's friends had to grow up due to many things including having to act as Slayer's substitutes on the Hellmouth while Buffy stayed in LA. They were somewhat mad at Buffy for abandoning them and those feelings affected their judgement and behavior.

Edited November 16, 2023 by lembergwatcher

[lembergwatcher]

Buffy is what happens when a good unique show gets popular AND when the show's creators start believing their shit doesn't stink and dedicating more time to hyping the series in the media or pushing agenda instead of writing good and interesting stories to captivate the audience.

[Halting Hex]

Trying to replicate success is a danger in almost any art form.  I can't tell you the number of rock bands where I end up thinking how much better they were before the commercial breakthrough.  It may not always be "wow, Bob Seger was so much better before that Silver Bullet truck commercial crap" (Bob and his manager try to bury his first seven albums, keeping them off of Spotify and never releasing them on CD), but there's a lot of it around.

I will defend S3-S4 Willow, though, as if you couldn't see that coming.  She's always been glad of male attention, going back to "Malcolm".  She's been willing to tell Buffy off since 2.01.  And magic is her way of keeping Jenny alive.  (Which puts her one above Jenny's boyfriend, but that's a different iss-yew…)

If you're talking about her liking girls, well, come on, now.  But I suppose such discussions are best suited for the Willow thread.

(I will agree that Faith is pretty much fanservice.  Albeit lovely fanservice, but still.  Indeed, I could argue that Faith is what shallow people envisioned Buffy as being.)

 

[MapleCourt]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:41 AM, Halting Hex said:

If you're talking about her liking girls, well, come on, now.  But I suppose such discussions are best suited for the Willow thread.

 

No, I said Season 3 Willow. It has nothing to do with being a witch or how she treats Buffy, it's the way Alysson Hannigan plays her character. Notice how in the musical introduction in Season 3, most of the scenes are from Season 2, but for Willow, all but one very brief clip are scenes from her in Season 3? It's because they wanted to bury shy, modest, unpopular Willow and bring out super cool rockstar dating hip Willow.

Also, I hate how every other Buffy forum on the internet treats the comics (and the Angel spinoff) as part of the show. I couldn't make it through the first episode of Angel and I'm sure as *** not wasting time or money on a comic.

And Reddit is 100% Xander hate and Oz worship.

Edited December 3, 2023 by MapleCourt

[Halting Hex]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:58 AM, MapleCourt said:

Notice how in the musical introduction in Season 3, most of the scenes are from Season 2, but for Willow, all but one very brief clip are scenes from her in Season 3? It's because they wanted to bury shy, modest, unpopular Willow and bring out super cool rockstar dating hip Willow.

Or because Willow had a new haircut and they wanted the titles to look consistent?

And while most of the ACTION shots were from S2, everybody had new material in their portrait shots in the credits:

SMG-shots from Anne ("Anybody here not having fun?"), Faith Hope & Trick (nervously smiling at Giles in the Library), and Innocence (sighting down the LAWS rocket at the Smurf).

Nick-shots from Go Fish (Speedo™ time!), Anne (commenting on "Depressing Night" at the Bronze) and Dead Man's Party (raising his head from behind Joyce's bed to observe Buffy's battle with the zombies, not that he will try to save Willow from Mobani!Pat or anything like that…grrr…)

Aly-shots from Faith Hope & Trick (smiling as she looks at her little phial of Marnox Root…apparently she's been really enjoying what you can do with a virgin's saliva…and I don't just mean "lubricating the toys she found in Jenny's bottom drawer"), Surprise (waving cutely at Buffy in Buffy's dream…which means this is Buffy's subconscious idea of Willow…) and Anne (giving Xander side-eye for rambling on about Cordelia when Willow was actually talking about how much she missed Buffy [of course])

CC-shots from Surprise (rising up behind the cake),  Faith Hope & Trick  (at the Bronze; I think this may be her recapping the Slayer Line?  She's happy, rather than pissed as in "Xander? Find a new theme) and Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered (reacting to Xander's gift of the heart)

David-(all as Angelus) from Becoming, Part I (vamping out before his first attempt at the ritual; spying on Buffy at the cemetery, earlier) and II (climactic swordfight)

Seth-shots from Dead Man's Party (playing guitar at Buffy's house), Beauty and the Beasts (staring at Pete from inside the cage), and Faith Hope & Trick (approving of Willow's babble during the opening picnic)

ASH-"The Decline and Fall of Rupert Giles (smiling when smelling the rose on his door in Passion; turning in shock [and possible horror] when Buffy and Willow tell him about finding The Ritual of Restoration in Becoming, Part 1; apparently not reacting well to Buffy's joke about remembering her address in Dead Man's Party [this appears to be from an alternate take])

So, SMG, Nick and Aly all had 2/3 new footage, CC and ASH had 2/3 old, David was all old (appropriate? Also, Angelus far cooler, obviously) and Seth had all new.  I don't really see a push for Aly's clips that varies significantly.

Also, they may simply want to use as much new footage as possible, since the 35-millimeter stuff looks different from the old 16-mm.

To quit the Buffster herself, "I wouldn't worry."  JMO.