Let's Make A Sci-Fi

[PurpleTentacle]

Can three comedians create a legit sci-fi show? Comedians Ryan Beil, Maddy Kelly, and Mark Chavez are going to find out. Over eight episodes, they’ll try to write a serious, and seriously nerdy, pilot script. When they run into trouble they’ll consult Hollywood experts who have worked on things like Star Trek, Star Wars, and Firefly and science fiction superstars like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Rainn Wilson, Emily VanDerWerff and Neill Blomkamp. And in the final episode, professional actors will read their script, bringing it to life — for better or worse.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/1061-let-s-make-a-sci-fi

[PurpleTentacle]

This Podcast is really interesting. At the momen I'm on episode three.

I think these three comedy writers should have gotten a drama writer on board, maybe even somebody with Scifi experience. I know that wasn't the premise for this podscast, but man did they do a big blunder early on. At first it was about two generation ships on the same course, that weren't allowed to interact previously, but now had to due to some kind of accident. Good premise for some hard Scifi. But then they pretty quickly changed it to a cult that started from earth hundreds of years ago and were now being chased by the space-FBI. Yeah, sorry but that's not a good premise for a serious drama. That's a premise for a comedy.

But this Podcast is still extremely interesting, since they are speaking to people in the industry. In episode three they make an informal pitch to Simon Barry, the guy who ran Continuum and he tells them what he no doubtedly heard from countless. That is (paraphrased): "You have to think about characters first. Otherwise you are going to world build and run in the wrong direction for weeks and weeks."

And there it hit me. That is why Scifi and Fantasy shows suck so hard nowadays. Because this seems to be what Executives want and what writers are told they should focus on. That is the worst advice I've ever heard, because with these genres you have to build the world first and yes, that can take weeks and weeks or even months. Only after can you create the characters and define their struggle in the world. Sure, the characters is what will keep viewers coming back, but they can not exist in a vacuum.

To me that explains why wholly original scifi and fantasy shows don't work these days and even shows based on books only work as long as there is source material. Because these writers don't know or care about the worlds they are writing for. They are even told not to care that much. Of course everything will fall apart.

[PurpleTentacle]

In episode 4 they interview Neil deGrasse Tyson and of course he is a massive sourpuss about the whole thing. Not the part I mentioned above, but why anybody would ever get on a generation ship and fly to another planet. I mean why wouldn't they? Why did people sail to different continents and wooden boats? That man lives to complain. If only he would complain about real problems...

[Fukui San]

I'm a Stop Podcasting Yourself fan and encountered all of these lovely comedians there first. I'm also a playwright who writes sci-fi and, as it happens, as this was airing my play about what they would call a generation ship migrating to a faraway world was being produced. It was quite the mindtrip. There were major differences, of course. The idea of colonizing another planet is a popular one in sci-fi these days, so lots of people are writing variations on this theme.

A very likable podcast. I, of course, was thinking of ways to tweak their premise as I was listening along.

10 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

This Podcast is really interesting. At the momen I'm on episode three.

I think these three comedy writers should have gotten a drama writer on board, maybe even somebody with Scifi experience. I know that wasn't the premise for this podscast, but man did they do a big blunder early on. At first it was about two generation ships on the same course, that weren't allowed to interact previously, but now had to due to some kind of accident. Good premise for some hard Scifi. But then they pretty quickly changed it to a cult that started from earth hundreds of years ago and were now being chased by the space-FBI. Yeah, sorry but that's not a good premise for a serious drama. That's a premise for a comedy.

But this Podcast is still extremely interesting, since they are speaking to people in the industry. In episode three they make an informal pitch to Simon Barry, the guy who ran Continuum and he tells them what he no doubtedly heard from countless. That is (paraphrased): "You have to think about characters first. Otherwise you are going to world build and run in the wrong direction for weeks and weeks."

And there it hit me. That is why Scifi and Fantasy shows suck so hard nowadays. Because this seems to be what Executives want and what writers are told they should focus on. That is the worst advice I've ever heard, because with these genres you have to build the world first and yes, that can take weeks and weeks or even months. Only after can you create the characters and define their struggle in the world. Sure, the characters is what will keep viewers coming back, but they can not exist in a vacuum.

To me that explains why wholly original scifi and fantasy shows don't work these days and even shows based on books only work as long as there is source material. Because these writers don't know or care about the worlds they are writing for. They are even told not to care that much. Of course everything will fall apart.

I don't know. I think their premise is one that can work, if it's executed well. They weren't there yet by the end of the podcast, and perhaps these three writers might never get there, but I think the premise is workable for a space drama.

And I think that successful sci fi can be scientifically driven, sure. But some can also be character driven. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it, just different flavors. 

[PurpleTentacle]

13 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I'm a Stop Podcasting Yourself fan and encountered all of these lovely comedians there first. I'm also a playwright who writes sci-fi and, as it happens, as this was airing my play about what they would call a generation ship migrating to a faraway world was being produced. It was quite the mindtrip. There were major differences, of course. The idea of colonizing another planet is a popular one in sci-fi these days, so lots of people are writing variations on this theme.

Congratulations on getting a play off the ground!

Where was your planet? I wasn't super excited about these guys using Proxima Centauri b. While it roughly has earth mass and is in the "habitable zone", Proxima Centauri, like almost all red dwarfs, is a flare star and so sterilises all planets in the habitable zone in regular intervals. So there is no life on that planet and likely not even an atmosphere.

If I was them I would have invented a Planet in the habitable zone of either Alpha Centauri A or B. We haven't found one there (yet) but it's entirely possible that earth sized planets exist there. As orange and yellow dwarfs those stars are much more hospitable to life. Alternatively Epsilon Eridani or Tau Ceti would have been alternatives, that are further away, but still reachable.

13 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I don't know. I think their premise is one that can work, if it's executed well. They weren't there yet by the end of the podcast, and perhaps these three writers might never get there, but I think the premise is workable for a space drama.

I don't think it is and that I saw that the second they introduced it, is a pretty good indication of that.

With the technological advantages another ship would have to catch up with them, there is just no drama left. They'd be snatched up and done. I guess then you could make a show about them reintegrating on earth and their struggle with it, but that's not the show these writers wanted to make. The sad thing is that their first idea about two generation ships flying alongside each other, but not allowed contact until [inciting incident], was actually really good, but it seems at some point their comedy-instincts took over, because "advanced space-FBI coming to catch a bunch of space-cultists on a generation ship" is a comedy premise if I ever heard one.

13 hours ago, Fukui San said:

And I think that successful sci fi can be scientifically driven, sure. But some can also be character driven. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it, just different flavors. 

It's not about it being science driven vs. not science driven. If it was about science I wouldn't have mentioned fantasy. Imo Sci-Fi and fantasy are two sides of the same coin. Both require robust world building with firm rules. Otherwise everything becomes ridiculous real fast.

I don't think you can have a good show without strong characters, but strong characters don't mean anything if they inhabit a ridiculous world without rhyme or reason (like new Star Trek or later seasons of Game of Thrones for example [although in both of those the characters are super inconsistent, too]).

Edit: It's also not as important to have a super fleshed out world with firm rules if you are writing a play or a movie. There you have a very limited scope and know what is important to your story and what isn't. But if you have to churn out 10+ episodes a year (20+ in the olden days) you better have a solid foundation or shit is going to get weird. These guys were writing a show, so I think the advise of focusing on characters first was the worst they could have gotten.

Edited September 17, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:21 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

Good premise for some hard Scifi. But then they pretty quickly changed it to a cult that started from earth hundreds of years ago and were now being chased by the space-FBI. Yeah, sorry but that's not a good premise for a serious drama. That's a premise for a comedy.

I think it depends on the stakes and the tone, really. A cult can be terrifying. And I don't think it was the space FBI (unless that was something they changed), they weren't being investigated, it was a team that had to catch up with them.

I kind of enjoyed their pilot episode of the show but

Spoiler

I didn't think the stakes for fraternization or whatever you want to call it were high enough and also I had been hoping for a fakeout where it turned out that it was a different couple being prosecuted/convicted/punished.

I am driving myself crazy because I swear not long after I finished this podcast I watched an episode of a sci fi series with the premise of a cult-like ship but I don't remember what series it is. Have I imagined it or does a real somewhat recent series exist?

Never mind, I just remembered: I am reading Cloud Cuckoo Land and it includes a ship with children that were born on it after it departed earth. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by SomeTameGazelle